d 22, and this year we are hoping that it will come in to more concrete form k . before we go to break only tell you about face a huge fire has broken out in the u. s. state of illinois engulfing a chemical plunder. local media reported data on explosion was heard of the fire starts it. emergency services are off the scene working to contain the flames, no casualties helping reported. su, according to officials, those living nearby are not at risk, but have been advised to shelter in place. as of now, there is also been no evacuations reported. alright, no punches pulled in the latest cross talk episode, catch peter and gas cells. they talk new naziism in eastern europe and south next ah

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with the hello in welcome across stock were all things considered i'm peter labelle. can bring. shame has a not see problem. it's western back or is don't want you to know about stepping vendetta and nazi collaborator is celebrated and ukraine is a national hero. however, the historical record is clear, been data and his associates are alleged to have committed genocide against poles and jews during the 2nd world war, the west is largely silent about this, the, the processing ukraine. i'm joined by my guess. erin, good in philadelphia. he's a political scientist historian and author of american exception empire in the deep state. and in london,

we cross the adrenal consulting. he is the founder of aka consulting and a born affairs analyst, or a gentleman cross groves. and in fact, that means he can jump anytime you want, and i always appreciate, let's go to london 1st one on january, 1st of this year the been data was his birthday was commemorated 100 and what? 14 years ago officially commemorated in the national par, parliament, parliament, and, and other official oregon's. and this is an atrocity. i mean, this is really what this regime is all about, but you'd never, or hardly ever hear about it in western media. i will point out that the, the polish government strongly objected as they usually do, but it doesn't seem to have any impact. so this is a, is this the kind of regime that the west is, is protecting. it's going to london purse. yes, i mean, quite recently the the chief of the ukrainian on forces has been supported on the social media by posting a picture of

a sophia. and so next to the, on the portrait of the stuff on there, you got the set up with a note saying that the ukrainian, or the final and ultimate victory of ukrainian nationalism will be when the russian empire will cease to exist. so in my opinion, i think the west is using the very strong and prevailing nationalist movements and sentiment within the whole ukrainian society in order to fight russia from, from the fall. and this is this, you know, the same script we've seen in i've gone on during the soviet era. speaking of just the sky was encouraging, which i think 25 in the name of gold, again,

saw against this obvious. and i think that the same template is being used here in ukraine where the losses are trying to, i mean, the west is trying to somehow re label as a fall right movement, which is not far right. but clearly us all do not see an ideology to fight or rush off until the last ukraine will die. so i think that the answer to your question is yes. well, let me go to eric here because this is in a very curious here because the west, at least officially it's official narrative, is that it's a, the eminently against f know nationalism. but we have there supporting a regime in camp that is all about s no nationalism ok. as i rail is already pointed out. i mean, this is a, a tool in there, russo phobic are so no, it's really has nothing to about to do about ukraine has nothing to do about the

fate of the ukrainian people. but it has everything to do about russia and they're willing to tolerate alter nationalist, ethnic nationalist, even passion, stick rhetoric to, to achieve that end aaron. right, and i think that these hard core nazi elements represent a minority of that western ukrainian population. but it really only take say, you know, a minority to be a pretty dangerous element in this society. and from the point of view of not just the russians, but the ethnic russians who have been part of ukraine. these are the worst elements in the, in the country that they live in. and it's, they're, they're a very, it's a version of naziism that traces back to the nazis. and except that it's even more kind of focused on, on the, on russians. i mean it's, it's, it's, which is a, for the people that are in, you know, if you look at that electoral mat from 2010 and you see the places that,

that did not that were for the, you know, the neutral candidate. it was, you know, around odessa and the don't bass, you see that this is a really divided country and the, the, the more hardcore elements in the west are have because you have an almost genocide or, well, i mean, they do have a genocidal ideology of storage towards russians, and so the idea of it's going to make it difficult to imagine how this can be you can reintegrate this country in any, in the way that it was before. so the nazi element is real. they really do downplayed in the west, especially once the war started. and this just goes back to the u. s. tradition of backing. really anybody on the ground, whether it's mafia groups or g haughty groups? italian fascists, german nazi, we slipped af after the war, japanese ultra nationalists, basically, japanese fascists, korean, fascist, ultra. right. as to when he is all these groups that we use and there and i would

even throw, throw in the 31 flavors of jihad is i'm in syria for example, you know, supporting the worst the elements here. let me go back to adrian. i mean, you've already used the word in the program. i think it's really appropriate. rebranding the battalion, for example, you know, and it was very curious, very few people in western media commented on it landscape was asked this a few months ago. what about these battalions and ultra nationally said they are who they are? i mean, he didn't even try to football at jaguar. is that true? they are, that's what they are. and everybody knows that we know that a congress during the trump era, you know, when appropriations were being made there, were congress members saying, no, we can't give money to these group that was law. and then under the, under the binding ministration, it was changed. you know, where you can fund these people know, one can claim they don't know about this. and if you go prior to 2014, a lot of these figures that are in places of power,

they were condemned by the european union, but the european union says nothing. now let's go back to london. oh, yes, i said, sure. i mean, this, we go back to, i don't know, one or 2 years ago in, i mean, the western mainstream media was required to, you know, open about the noisy problem and you cry, even the atlantic council, which is broke, is about a russian question. so there's no doubt about it. also we have to bear in mind that the very prominent journalist polish jewish journalists in, in poland, can start to give it to writing for many years for a book, which is a very famous and very popular newspaper in poland. resign due to the fact a very editorial board of the. busy of the newspaper was forcing him to re brown the neo nazis, and he was assisting to call, sped, sped, neo nazis,

to rebrand them too far. right. so i myself of jewish heritage and i don't feel all right with what is happening. and there is a lot of talking among the jewish population in poland and in united kingdom as well as those who are trying to somehow go against a mainstream. they re did the label as you know this lawyer do. i mean i'm loyal to the history of my family. i'm loyal to the tragedy that happened in all the polish soil when the german nazi occupied opponent and my ancestors in the ghetto, in august and friends of mine, are put in chambers. so i'm loyal to the, to the history of my family and the history of part of my family. so i don't quite

get why, you know, the commission is being legalized and somehow, you know, he's a cause denial. if we go back to the pair research articles from 2020, written by the j goes out. also in the book, the publish very, very important article in the journal eastern european politics and society where he call the genocide in a holocaust. so people like on many cools, a former ambassador of ukraine to germany now has been promoted to be my yes he's, he's been promoted and he's a and he's a v p. 40 minutes then you great. so he's a holocaust deniers. is something like this would happen in, i don't know any european country, trust me, the media, the mainstream media,

the politicians will destroy it, but i don't, i do all that address and it would be, you know, they're denying the whole call. there's a higher cause here. ok, and i me go back to aaron here they're willing, perfectly willing to accept the holocaust deniers, if it, um, i advances their agenda to have the collective west attack russia. that's perfectly acceptable to them. they have no moral scruples whatsoever. aaron, right, i mean this just gets into the a morality or immorality of the pinnacle of the american elite. if you look at the fascists in the 1st place of mussolini, got $100000000.00 loan from j. p. morgan and henry luce of time magazine sort of wrote glowingly about him. at the time. john foster dulles, representing people connected to sullivan cromwell, law firm. he broke into a large bond sale internationally for the german nazi regime under adolf hitler,

which helps germany to rearm. and the idea was that this was a, a bulwark against the russians over communism. and the u. s. it was the u. s. that was in standard oil that was selling all the oil to the japanese when they were sweeping across, you know, up through, up to the point where they invaded fridge into china. so they were fueling these japanese wars in china, especially. so we supported and then, and then we, we turn against them to basically take over the fascist parts of the, of the global empire and really make japan and germany into satellites and so on. but we scoop up a lot of these nazi's and 1000 but era here and i thought it was about democracy. sorry, i didn't know this here. ok, i, it's all about democracy versus a talk chrissy. that's what we're all told here. no. and we both of my guess here are giving the, the, the real, the, you know,

pulling away the layers and saying really what the truth is. and the in western publics have to learn more about this. if they don't, they don't have a moral conscience. i'm going to jump in here, gentlemen, we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on your brain. say with, [000:00:00;00] with ah,

ah ah, ah ah, the welcome back across stock where all things are considered. i'm peter labelle. dramatic,

we're discussing ukraine in the okay, now we're joined by carla nixon in washington. he's a political and welcome to the program. in the 1st part of the program, maryland, we talked about the intentional white washing of fascist and neal passion, elements in ukraine, focusing on the personality of step and ben data were whose birthday? the 100 and 414th was celebrated officially by the ukrainians on the 1st of the, of the year. well, you know, one of the things that, you know, the, one of the reasons why this whitewash can continue is because the west does not want to come to terms with the illegal, the old takeover of power in february of 2014. that is, the origins of the erin was right in the beginning of the program saying, you know, these are a minority of people. yes. but they are very powerful positions and they have very, very powerful backers in the west. ok, so i mean without a honest discussion about what happened with the illegal takeover of power in

february 2014 and who were never going to get anywhere because the, this was the, they were the storm troopers quite literally a bringing that illegal process to fruition garland well, and you know, it's far worse than that. the united states has a position. the u. s. empire shall i say, has a position here that it must hide from its people. the information war of the united states is one that is used to hide from the actual american people. the truth here, the reality is your correct. there is a minority of the far right, fastest, still growing at the behest of the united states and by the support of the united states. but the actual numbers of people in the ukraine who are far right fast just aren't as high as many would think. however, they derive their power from the u. s. empire. empire, they were empowered after 2014, they were integrated into the military after 2014, when the u. s. took over. so the u. s. is fighting in information war 2,

mainly to ensure that the american people cannot look at this conflict through historical context. because that would expose the extremely immoral in an unethical position that the united states is in here. you know, erin, if you about to go back to our guest and philadelphia, well, you know that there's the narrative. is that suddenly unprovoked, on february 20, a february of last year, russia invaded ukraine. that's the western narrative. but the origins of this conflict go all the way back to 2014, with the illegal takeover of power against the unicode which government and what was the 1st thing the the qu government did they passed very stringent anti russian language laws? no wonder the people of the dog bass said wear out of here, and the people in crimea said exactly the same thing. they were the ones that voted for, you know, coach in the 1st place. this narrative never makes it, and it doesn't even make the 13th paragraph. and what is very rarely mention is the

8 years prior to february of last year. up to 15000 people died in the don bass and they were killed by the care of government backed by the west. go ahead, eric. right. think who is of 20? 14 is the key moment to understand what has happened here. and invariably gets lied about in the u. s. media if i don't know anyone who is a long time observer of u. s. foreign policy and especially of the clandestine state and who is looked extensively at the cruise and overthrows over the years, who has not come to the conclusion that made on was a u. s. operation. they had all the same basic elements that they used to oversee the government of iran in 1953 massive street protests, false like violence, and then key officials who were bribed and on the side of the cooper waters. so this is very straightforward. i mean,

it's even more obvious in this case because you had the secretary of state department official, victoria knew and passing out cookies to anti government protesters. it's fairly straightforward and it's never discussed. and so the debate in the u. s. is kind of a make believe debate to the extent that there is a debate and it's which is normal in the u. s. it really is a top down policy making system as far as, especially as far as foreign policy goes. and academics who point this out as a guy, i've been catching off ski at the university of ottawa and he had a paper that went through peer review and was set to be published. and, and editor basically stepped in and said, no, this is we can't publish this for political reasons basically. so this is a, it's a taboo thing in the west. and it just means that the debate in the west is a make believe debate. yeah, it's all, make me a drill, you know, when i, when i mentioned to people about the minsk accords, i get a blank look. well, what's that? ok. it sounds like propaganda them is because no one is ever educated about them

whatsoever. but like i said, this complex has been going on for going into 9 years right now. and that is the context that it has to be put into. and, and we have to be very fair here. when the russians warned the west that this was going to happen, they repeatedly warned that they would take measures to counter the west expansion of nato up to its doorstep, and it was completely ignored. what i'm saying, a drill. there's a hell of a lot of context here that never makes it into the public debate in the west. well, the interesting piece of that you mentioned means agreements. but i'm sure the other part of this, and you're so aware that recently i'm going to merkel and give an interview and the and, and how long you can holler francois molanda also. well,

a gave an interview to kids independent. 3 just confirming what she said in her interview, and basically she said that from the very beginning it was a good spot. they knew that they need to give some time to that you are in the military. and the last is in order to strengthen the position a russia. so we are, i think the russian people and many people in the west are quite naive in thinking duck. certain agreements are worth, you know, being, you know, i mean, the politicians in the west are trustworthy in the way that if they make an agreement, disagreement will be broken. but she confirmed in this interview, done any, any agreement with the way it's well, i mean it in 2014, they already knew that dismiss agreements don't mean anything to,

to the west side into the ukrainian side. they were just deceiving a russia. so how the russian federation can trust with it in the future. in my opinion, there's no trust and these reckless interviews, because if you are a lawyer at least try to just prolong and keep home lying. but don't say out loud, because at the moment france and germany discredited in my humble opinion. well, i mean, gentlemen, to all, to my 3 gas and to my audience here, that's why this conflict is going to end very differently than the west expects. because russia does not have an interlocutor, they can trust because we have repeated lies. that's what is going to make ending this conflict, which it will end. but it will be with almost no input from the west for the reasons that address this just said. garland, let me go to you. i mean, the west is supporting, fascist, and best stick elements in ukraine. ok. but i find it, my friend very,

very peculiar that in the context of like an american politics, you know, it's so easy for people to say, he's a bashes. he's a fact, you know, he's a trump, be all of this stuff here. i don't want to get into domestic american politics right now, but it's, i find it really b q year that how easy people will throw the term around as a slur. but they won't even open their eyes to see real fascist in ukraine. but the us in supporting and funding garland, i do think there's some level of wilful, willful ignorance and of course in the american court of law, willful ignorance is treated as knowledge. it's treat if you, if you, if a court find that you were willfully ignorant and then you are treated the same as if, you know, and so the responsibility is there in the united states as people struggle with these 2 realities in that they, you know, joe biden comes out and says, i'm running because of charlottesville and i'm fighting against the nazis. and

we've got to stop nazis. and of course we're sending unlimited much money to not nazis. and then people have to say, well, there are no nazi there. of course, there's all this information and data all around. so again, the importance of the information war here against the american people, is to ensure that the american people don't come to grips with the reality of what they're facing. however, i'm here in the united states. i'm telling you i do radio and both coast all over the place. i can tell you that is changing. i can tell you that the questions are starting to get louder, and particularly with the economic pain that americans are, are up against. so while it may appear based on the mainstream media and what our politicians are saying that the american people have no clue and are going locally, there is a growing contingent of americans who are highly suspicious of what's going on. and the pushback started, i don't know how long the neocons can hold onto this disaster to this tiger that they have by the tail that they can't let go. and they can't hold onto, you know,

aaron rapidly running out of time. but when russia started, it's a special military operation in ukraine. it said it had 2 objectives. the demilitarization of ukraine and d nazi vacation of ukraine. they need the notification element was in the west could not comprehend. but it's easy to comprehend that the, the regime in care of is not a mental walker that the russians take seriously. it's because they're completely dependent on the west. and the only way they're not people that you can trust. lensky ran as president as a, as a peacemaker. and he was cowed by these fascist battalions. and this is where we've ended up. go ahead aaron. yes i understand that he was one of his big backers was a an oligarch who is also a big a's of founder. so you have to wonder how much, how lockers, holla mo, sky yes. go ahead. yeah. you have to wonder how much they ever intended to achieve it. so let him achieve his support, you know,

promise mission of peace here. but i think that a, a bigger maybe a more fundamental issue here is that a historical understanding of fascism where in the u. s absorbs not just the jap, not just japan and germany as the ends of it, sort of global empire. you know, axial ends on each side of your razor. but also it takes, they're not, they're fascist personnel and some of the worst butchers of that regime. and a re, purposes them against no communist china and soviet union. and this is so in a way it takes up the fascist project of domination of the globe. blood bio, you know, imperialist. i had him on and well, you know here era where i am but the you that with the russian people thought they different. they had defeated fascism in europe 70 years ago. they feel like they have to do it again and kind of echoing your thoughts there, gentlemen, that's all the time we have. i want to thank my guests and watch it in philadelphia

and in london. and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at ortiz. see you next time, remember rostock with oh, when i want something wrong, when i just don't hold any new world yet to save out. disdain becomes the advocate and engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground.

a slave is up with what ship you might be able to with a really easy quote. those guys help with the way, like a display of the, with the,

with my service move my lease with a ah, r t received exclusive footage from they don't buy the city of solar dark where the russian private military group buckner studies it's secure is the area also coming up voices in israel, leyden protesting benjamin netanyahu is new cabinet calling at the most extreme government that's ever existed there a decade since a much vaunted french military operation began in my late, but concerns continue to much over its failure to address the political problems