the german minister for accountability and that is only seen according to at least her now colleague through transitional justice. here is the german foreign minister and a lean burbock fish. the survey is got out of the it is particularly important to prosecute the violations. we, germans, and french know this from our own experience. that reconciliation does not happen overnight, but without the prospect of justice for the victims of crimes. reconciliation and lossing piece and not possible f 150. but of course, this has been a bruise, o'loy and you don't have to, to take it from anywhere else because it's, it's quite a, it's, it's further exacerbated the fair mind. crisis that has been all to buying that part of, of, of ethiopia. but of course there's another factor to this story which is the, the, the role played by foreign forces. and in particular, we're talking about neighboring a retreat. which fort, alongside the federal government of ethiopia,

now eritrea has not moved it's position even though we have a peace accord in action. and as the t p a left hand over heavy machinery, they still have to contend with energy and soldiers which still occupy some of the sensitive areas in the capital of t gray, which is michaela. and this has not been without is casualties. there's been hundreds of thousands of people have been displaced, even neighboring eritrea as they seek for safety. but paths no voice encapsulates the pain that has been there for the last 2 years. then the world health organization's director tedra gabrielle says, the humanitarian crisis in te gray is more than ukraine without any exaggeration. and i said this many months ago, maybe the reason is the color of the skin of the people in te great. this is the worst disaster on earth as we speak. i am from see great. it is not because i am

from te gray. i am saying this, that is the truth. i personally find it very funny that both the german and the frenchman if they claim to have been involved in the war considering what they were doing around that time. last year there was a huge focus by both government to try and see cio energy from the continent. and that looked like something they were leaving with. but apparently now they say that they did a lot of work behind the scenes, and that they were not seeking any limelight, but there were other players, namely china, which also just recently had its own. you foreign minister in, in this about the capital city of if you here. and they, but thinking that he had the stronger, a soft power with regards to, to the trade that they have with, if you, as well as the dead that if yoga has, with regards to china, which is a bottom corner of the country's total debt. and the i believe, to have played

a much more urging role for the federal government to finally come to the table. lots of rob for now for the latest updates. do check out our websites. my name is peter scott, and i'll be back again in just under 30 minutes. ah, ah, ah .

ah ah. hello and welcome to cross talk where all things are considered. i am peter lavelle, former us secretary of state condo, lisa rice, and former secretary of defense. robert gates never the smartest people in the room warned that time is not an ukraine side. they're actually right. but for the wrong reasons, they are perfectly happy to see the conflict in ukraine's continued cross talking ukraine. i'm joined by my guess, lionel and new york. he is illegal in media analysts in del mar, we have scott ritter. he is a former intelligence officer in the united nations weapons inspector. and in

buffalo, we cross a john capua. he is an analyst for issue insight. all right, german cross talk roles in effect, that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate scott, let me go to you 1st year. i'm quoting condie and bob time is not on ukraine side. i think you and i would agree with that, but for very different reasons. go ahead though i look time isn't on the crate. so, you know, they, they had a good run the summer they, they, you know, it's like a heroin addict getting some fresh hair when they got injected $100000000000.00 worth of western military and financial assistance. they had a high, but it's ended in there's no more drugs. and so they're crashing. russia on the other hand, is spent the last 4 months rebuilding it's military capability. they just restructured their command staff to support large scale, broad based military operations that are going to begin very soon of time isn't on

the train side. russia is getting ready to deliver the hammer west has nothing left to feed their ukrainian junky. and it came said match. well, they won't let me go to you. basically the same questionnaire. i mean, after a $100000000000.00 plus and it for at least most people in the west, it's a stalemate. i wouldn't agree with that assessment, but nonetheless, what is another $100000000000.00 going to do? i mean, you know, kind of, lisa rice and robert gates, they essentially say keep funding this war towards what end. what does victory mean? what does the feed mean? who's the winner? who's the loser? go ahead. john in buffalo, you've asked for definitions of terms that are in elusive since the 24th of february of 2022. and they remain not only elusive, but they also are meaning different late to different countries, different governments, different participants in what was

a special military operation and what is now defined as war. i disagree with with scott and, and following up. yeah, i am one of those camps that that there needs to be dialogue because people keep dying and territory kids getting run over twice. however, the west is likely to continue to fund or even if it looks like there isn't much movement either way, there's likely to continue to be substantial funding. why, why talk, what do you think? it's a good idea. let me talk towards what and it's will it and, and again the, the definition of l. event. and i'm sorry to keep, you know, giving these young that there are elusive definitions. but for countries some countries outside of ukraine, some members of nato. they do believe that the end means the territorial borders of

ukraine as they existed. 1991 for other nato members. they're fine with the borders as they were on the 22nd birth. sorry, the 23rd of february of 20. 22. there isn't unanimity. just like there isn't unanimity with respect to the european union and how it looks at ukraine. but the, what we have in ukraine is now become a very, very big business. only a winner as well. we can agree on that. and i would say that that's one of the reasons why condo, lisa rice and robert gates wants us to go along because of their connections with the the arms per manufacturer is it's really good business at the expense of america's great friends, the ukranian. so it's really quite sickening here. let me go to lionel in new york . you know, line apparently a member of congress wants to erect

a bust of zalinski in the house of representatives. how do you feel about that? i can't say because this is a family show me, i just say of the right now i want to imagine a thought experiment. we're going to the future 25 years from now. i hope we're still here and somebody asks me to explain the russian ukrainian military operation . why did it happen? who was behind it? what was the information and i happened to have a list of all of these left dish. crazy pooh. an apologist. who came out basically asking whether this was a wise thing to do. william burns connelly's or right? bob gate, barry posen, posting in foreign affairs, henry kissinger, john mearsheimer, the great jonathan paul, noam chomsky. mister ritter, whom i respect the late stephen cohen, colonel douglas mcgregor and,

and the grandaddy of m. all george kennan, the expert, the author of containment, everybody since day one said, what are you doing? you know, i know you, i know, i'm sorry you could have put me on the list because i, but i was, i was saying it months before it happened that this is what we were going to get in . and, you know, and with the wisdom of youtube, just took it all down. so there is historical record that actually senate, okay, keep an eye without going to go to that. see? but, but here's what i'm saying. i'm looking at this just as a, almost as a doctor looks at a patient. i'm looking at the pathology report to the laboratory. what are we talking about? and by the way, i've got to tell you this in here in my country. more people know about the various iterations of star wars galactic unions than they do nato. and fact when i, i have this with me. i know it sounds corny,

but when any of my friends talks about this is it here point to ukraine roughly. and you see this, okay, what is it? okay, for my other guess, lionel is holding a very small globe. okay. asking where ukraine is. ok. so that's a very good point. scott, let me go back to you. i just got back to what the, the infinite wisdom of rice and gates here. they also say, no ukraine's economy is in shambles, and the country is entirely reliant on foreign aid. i interpret that as you break it. you own it. go ahead. scott. well, i mean that, that, that could be, let me, let me, we could jump to what john had said earlier about definitions and such, um, well, with all due respect to europe and united states no longer participate in the lexicon of european conflict. they think they can by providing money, weapons, and such, but um, russia will not negotiate west to india, so the west has lost all credibility after what? okay, scott, me explain that for our viewers or viewers, they give us that. what,

what have we, we could start with puerto shanker, then we can go to merkel. then we go to holland, if you could or, you know, i'll put a ball on that because it's very important. go ahead. is simply simply, could the immensity accords which were implementer were, were entered into 2014 minutes to 2015 a. were supposed to create a ceasefire and a set of conditions which would have the dumbass remain within ukrainian turturro sovereignty in exchange for changes in training constitution that would provide a level of cultural, linguistic autonomy to the ethnic russians. um, if for 8 years there was no movement on it and people always say, well, why not? there is a narrative that rushes fault. we now know thanks to course ankle for repressive ukraine. merkel. the former chancellor ali, the former french president, all 3 who were bought in the craft that meant that it was never meant to be implemented. it was a sham by time for the ukrainians to rearm with the assistance of nato. for the

purpose of engaging an armed conflict with russia. so russia will no longer negotiate these people, anybody who thinks otherwise is following themselves. and so, if the goal of the west is to continue to fund this conflict, in hopes that ukraine can somehow drive russia to negotiating table, that will never happen. russia is going to win this war regardless. so there is only one outcome that is a russian victory. and frankly speaking, $200000000000.00 of western 8 is not going to be sufficient. because as john alluded to, the west is not of one mind. in fact, the longer this conflict goes on, the further fractured the west, becomes regarding ukraine. well, russia, there's any jump in here and go to john here. i mean, i mean i, i slightly disagree with you and john, actually on that point, i think europe is completely irrelevant. i, who cares what the europeans are, as a washington certainly doesn't care. i mean, if there's going to be a negotiated end of this conflict, it's going to be moscow in washington,

and that's exactly how washington wants to john your reaction. the end, you know, as this conflict as this war has a trajectory, and i do believe men disagree with scott. there will be a negotiation. you will see zalinski and president fulton, president soleski in a room. i seriously doubt that i well, a jealous, why on under, under ukrainian, i'm sorry, but under ukrainian law presidents zalinski is not allowed to negotiate with the russian president with keep our fax great. ok, go ahead. this has nothing to do with what's in the law where it says in the law. i'm saying that in order for this to and i do expect at some point, those 2 individuals would be in a room likely in ankara, likely at the invitation requested present air to one of turkey. and what scott is saying has said with respect to the past is absolutely right,

but the russian federation and got the gun. ukraine are both going to be in a position where neither can do whatever they want. they all have limitations in the western was to talk about no blank chapman for your brain for anything. and that is true. there isn't unlimited resources. all governments have to make decisions. and at some point, and i think it's probably, you know, probably by the end of this year, there will be an effort to bring this to some sort of so, so that doesn't mean the way i'm on my mind. i'll let you, i'll let you finish in the 2nd half of the program and i have to finish the we're going to a hard break. ok. ok. i would greatly what it was. i will go back to i promise. but i do think that the, the conditions that you're talking about will be conditions of surrender of one side to the other. that's the only time those 2 guys will meet gentlemen. i'm going

to go to a hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on crayton state with ah ah ah welcome back to crossing, were all things considered on peter labelle to remind you we're discussing ukraine . ok go back to john in buffalo at the end of the 1st part of the program or you said

that it will be negotiated in an i interject and i said yes, there will be. will there will be a surrender. you would like to react to that go right ahead. the end of this conflict, this war is going to be based upon who's prepared to suffer most. ok, so i don't believe that one. and they're going to be semantics diplomatic semantics not as terms of surrender. but in the end, this is going to have a cessation, whether it's temporary or permanent. well, by the basis of a discussion, it's regardless of what it was around the books or, or anything else that because neither side can continue this in perpetuity. well, we'll, we'll see, we'll see about that. but until i do agree we're concerned, i do agree with you on the point that the, if it's not resolved correctly in the immediate future, it will have it. this will be with us for

a very long time line all. let me go to you in new york. i mean, you know, i, when lensky went to the joint session of congress, you know, i called the peak lensky. i mean, how long is this guy going to have his run with show business and vanity fair and all of that? ok. when there are so many other problems that americans are dealing with. and you know, if you look at the nature of the regime and you can, there is no democracy or position parties or band, there's no freedom of speech. now the orthodox church is being persecuted very much like during the soviet era. i would like to point out to our viewers here. so line, and i mean, what's the flavor of the month is lensky still it for now? until the media and entertainment folks decide it's, it's back to prince harry or megan mark or whatever. but i must ask of a very simple and naive question. what exactly his change now? that was not known initially?

why are people asking questions now like, how do you think we're going to wrap this up? do you think maybe concessions? will ukraine be neutral or rum state? do you think 801 year. why? what happened other than just people the becoming a rad? tired of this? needless death. i don't understand what's happened. people act now as though there has been some tremendous transitory change. this evolution into something, when in fact, everything this started initially is still the way now i'm going to go back to what i said as far as my perspective here. this is a, this is a movie line. this is a, this is a, a character, this is a hero, and this is not in any way man to degrade mr. zalinski. i'm telling you, he is a media creation here, and nobody knows anything. they can't find ukraine on a map. let me also say something very quickly in 1962 in the united states, 90 miles from florida was a place called cuba. and the world was about to go to world war 3 over missiles,

which basically was about turkey, but doesn't matter. we have the monroe doctrine, we understand specifically the idea of, of territorial compromise and territorial encroachment. so why this is difficult for people here to understand at least the issues i will never know, sir? well, i don't think one of the things i've noticed from my far away perches are trying to frame this is like a world war 2 good guy, bad guy thing. and that there's, there's this very, it's not new on it is a, it's mankey in on provoked, well, i mean, there's a lot of history prior to the beginning of the conflict, which of them the mainstream media is not interested in scott, it's, and i want to bring up issue and i have talked about numerous times and is something that john leed alluded to. is that when this complet comes to an end, the russians are going to make sure it's not going to happen for our very, very long time. not 2 years, not 5 years, not 10 years, it's going to be

a lot more permanent than that. go ahead. scott. no, absolutely. that's why there would be no negotiated settlement because a negotiated settlement implies compromised. there is no compromised. chance for compromise was back in april when russia was sitting down with ukrainians in you. in istanbul. but maurice johnson intervene on behalf of nato to shut it down because natal thought a wrongly that russia was we can, that russia couldn't sustain this, injected billions of dollars in an effort to pump ukraine up. that has run its course of the final elements of the 300000, are completing their training, they're soon deployed, rushes restructured staff for large scale warfare, rushes restructured its defense, industry. rushes. economy is not suffering. the notion that somehow ukraine can suffer more is ludicrous. their economy is already dead more, but it's given. it's on life support with american money. but as congolese rice and

mister gates have alluded to, you remove that money, the training kind of dies of general armageddon. serv. i team has been put in charge of a future air campaign that will destroy ukraine as a modern nation state. understand this, the russians have made it clear beats at the opening condition still apply. demilitarization denazi's vacation demilitarization is about to occur. the destruction of the training armed forces. d notification occurs with the death of zalinski government that will hat with the hands of a aerial campaign, sustained strategic in nature that will destroy ukraine, is a modern nation state. there will be no negotiated it. i don't know how many times i have to emphasize this in the end, there will be a tokyo bay type solution. september 1945. the u. s. s. missouri or the russians will come up with something equivalent and a defeated ukraine will crawl it, be compelled to sign a document of unconditional surrender. this is how it ends up, because russia wanted it in this weight because natal forced russia to seek this kind of solution at john in the how much more do you think the, the,

the west. well, as the late because, you know, they have depleted their stalks of weapons and they have to start making new ones, making new ones is very takes a lot of time. these are very sophisticated systems training people up here. meanwhile, the campaign is raging on the battlefield. here, i mean unfortunately the, there's only one really big important, high cards. the west can play and you know what that is nuclear weapons. because when you have condi rice and bob gates saying, you know, we cannot afford to lose this. they were escalating this. they are escalating and they're threatening to escalate. this is the foreign policy blob speaking john, your thoughts begin by referencing with scott talking about september my my birthday september the 2nd. so that actually aligns with what happened on the missouri you know, i,

i disagree with them with respect to the end, the, the likelihood of negotiations, nuclear weapons. this is not going to be a nuclear conflict. never, never was going to be regardless of who says what, in terms of the wes continued capacity to deliver the product to ukraine. they're going to do so you know, i would like to share, you know, i have somewhat of unique perspective here. and that is, i began my international work career in what was the u. s. s. r. prior to president gorbachev taking power. and i was in car chief ukraine on the 24th of february. and i've been back since, and i've been to the russian federation and i've been to b l a roots and i've been to turkey a odd. so having a, an ability to look at the consequences, commercially, economically, politically,

militarily of what this conflict, what this war has be got with respect to other countries, whether it's frontline, nato countries, frontline, non nato countries or other countries and within ukraine. i disagree with scott in terms of the ukrainian economy. you know, collapsing. well, i mean, i don't, i don't jot, wait a minute. you have a con to lisa rice and robert gates. i'll quote, the ukranian economy is in shambles, and the country is entire reliant on foreign aid. ok. and they are partially correct. there is and there remains a private sector in ukraine and i'm not, so i'm, i'm not, you know, i'm sorry. are you talking about the, are you talking about the black market? because that's basically what they have. no, i'm not talking about the black market and, and that's just a,

that just stay but not based on reality. you still have people there that or engaged in trying to do what they were doing prior to february 24, 2022. and these are young people, as well as older people. but it's important to remember that in both countries, russian federation and ukraine. you've got young people who are questioning what's happening. the russian economy is heard the name. okay. all right now. okay. okay. now you talked about, you talked about your personal travels, that's pride and personal experience can enlighten you. i live here. so line, oh, let me tell you something. let me tell you something here. sanctions, if the average russian to be that person did not pay attention to the news, they wouldn't have any idea this country was sanctioned at all. ok. that's how much the sanctions are hurting their. as a matter of fact, it's important. substitution is on steroids right now, which is something i've been saying for the entire quarter century. i've lived in

this country. you not rely upon the west. there are toxic, there they lie, they receive, then they cheat. go ahead, lionel. go ahead. well, what you said, which is the most important. and that is that, how is it that anybody is going to understand what is going on? you know, i'm a child of the vietnam era. i'm a child of the sixties and i remember pacifically made, it was so clear, it was so clear that hokey men was a bad guy. this was about the domino effect. and now after the fact, we are still trying to decipher what happened now still trying to figure out the civil war. what i don't understand is, and this is the worst part. if there's one lesson that the world should know was that you cannot conduct warfare anywhere. when you have huge swash of humanity cut off from reality, you have to lead everybody talk. these gentlemen go add it,

no matter the platform, then only then can the world understand what's going on. there are videos i've seen of this. what sanction type of theme with people prospering? this completely defeat the idea. yet, you want to talk about propaganda. you look at some of the western stuff you were say, western american media. and i'm thinking, where, what planet are they talking about? and here's the best part, because you mentioned before, is boris in natasha. this russo full the kremlin, waiting boris. and natasha. nonsense. this, this, this post cold war attitude, people jump into this immediately saying, if it's russia, it's gotta be bad. it's that simplicity, right? that tells you how powerful the propaganda is. gentlemen, that's all the time we've had. fascinating discussion, difference of opinion, which is very much welcome on this program. i want to thank my guests in buffalo del mar and in new york. and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at

our to see you next time. remember ah for we came here to museum, go to speak to hockey legend, a lot of you know, what if i told you talk to was more than just a sport. maybe even an arch or people philosophical lady on the came is the professor and we came to ask them why they want everything. the hockey national for the game is incredible. it's all about great. it is so against would be for everybody in later. so as to patient, want to be a normal going to back with

a to weeks of incense, i think the russian defense ministry confirms moscow is taken full control over the town of solid off india colon on developing countries to stand together against the threats of globalization not as it hosts the voice of the global fulfillment with the greatest mass delusion in u. s. history. the latest batch of this, with the files reveals, the democrats peddled fake tales of russian balls. and that's the spikes with it. knowing there was no evidence of russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election and.