testimony led to a major reorganization including the creation of a new f b. i office of intelligence and the hiring of a significant number of f. b. i. agents with critical language skills in 2002, rally was name time magazines person of the year, along with 2 other whistleblowers. colleen rally. welcome to the show. colleen tell us what life was like in the f. b, i in that period around the september 11th attacks. so much was going on. the conventional wisdom is that the f b, i would react to just about any threat to the united states, especially one being raised by a senior f b. i agent like you. why did f b, i headquarters not act on the information that you and your colleagues had developed? the information was pouring in, not actually directly to myself because i was the legal council who basically gave little training constitutional law training to the agents. but it was coming in that summer, and i think that is what alerted the agent in his supervisor to how suspicious it

was when to whistle blowers from a suburb suburban white squall called the f. b i. they were whistleblowers. they went against their own employer to let the f b. i know that they had the most suspicious flight student they had ever seen. and i think that the reason why that triggered on these agents into immediate action was because they had seen some of these earlier memos that, that had been coming in. and you know what, what later the 911 commission said that the, that the, the intelligence communities hair was on fire and that the system was blinking red . so that summer, beginning maybe in late spring summer, there was a lot of intelligence flowing and it didn't come to me because i was the legal council. but the other agents that the investigating agents did see that it's unusual for whistleblowers information to result in such momentous change like

yours did your revelations resulted in a reorganization of the f. b, i itself, you became a public figure even making the cover of time magazine. how did your colleagues react to that? and more importantly, how did your superiors react? well, the immediate consequence of my was so boring memo to moller to the inspector general to the joint intelligence committee. actually. i mean, i, i put it to 3 or 4 different entities, thinking that, you know, somebody might read it. i was actually not even optimistic that it would be read by the actual senators. so i was surprised when i heard afterwards. it's that it had been read and you know, in, in that particular time period um, some of the agents knew ok. the lower ranking agent. certainly the ones investigating the suspicious terrorists a suspect in minneapolis are they were on it on my side for getting that

information out because headquarters had not been telling the truth about it. so up, going back to, to what your question was, you know, they, the, the f b i lower ranking people who kind of do the work. we're on my, even the agents association. we're on the side of getting the truth out about this . for starters, you can't fix the problem unless you tell the truth. why was this intelligence not connected? i mean, that was the number one big thing, and certainly it's even with the 911 commission later said they said, well, they didn't connect the dots. that was their, their diagnosis. but my memo did lead. ok. i was, i was happily surprised. it did lead to an inspector general d o. j inspector general investigation for almost 2 years. it took almost 2 years long. it's like 40500 pages that describe the 3 missed chances at least 3 in the f b i. and why were, why was this intelligence not shared?

ok, now we later find out that even bad i g, our investigation was incomplete. and we also find out that some of the agents were told not to tell the truth to the inspector general, but i have to take some credit that my memo did directly lead to that inspector general investigate. you know, whether it led to great changes in the f, b, i the overhaul of the computer system. you know, that was maybe, maybe i had a chance, gentle my, my information and my testimony to the judiciary committee. because i actually touched on the computer system that did not allow agents to actually do the searches, very easy, almost could not do searches in the if you could believe that before 911. and there was this big overhaul, but it was also a boon. goggle, where there was failed contractors that failed to, to set up affective computer systems. there's been, there was a whole bunch of water under the bridge on the computer system. and i think after

$911.00, because the budgets all increased so much, i think frankly, they were looking for opportunities to spend money. so maybe my in my memo was in all that important even for the computer overhaul because they, they, at that point it was well known that the f, b, i, a computer system was completely arcane or cake and they had to change it. but you know, for what it's worth, there was a bit more investigation following my memo. and as you know, john, that's actually something in this day and age. you know, usually somebody's information to the higher authorities just gets completely quashed. i mean, they just, you know, push it under the rug, they fire the whistleblower. so i was lucky in that respect that at least something happened. one of the most interesting aspects to your case is that you blew the whistle at the f b. i not just once but twice in 2003. you wrote another letter to director

moller in which you said that the f b i quote, would not be able to stem the flood of terrorists that will likely head our way in the week of an attack on iraq on quote, history has proven you correct. but the bush administration went forward with its attack on a rock anyway. how did the invasion change the f b i and did your revelations inspire other f b i. agents to come forward? well, just as a little further background, it was f b i then director moller, who had told me on the eve of my testimony to that to the judiciary committee in june of 2002 he had said, you know, co and he was trying to co opt me so i would would not go to critical of the f b i. when i testified the next day. and he said, colleen, i'm critical minded like you. and if there's ever anything like this that you spot ever again, please come to me 1st. and so when you get to february of 2003,

and of course now that the government is for the military's voice to invade iraq. there it turns out later that the media was told that they were going to be embedded and they all switched over to being war, hawks, etc. so when this occurs in february, what do i do? i wrote a memo to f b, i director muller. in fact, mahler was shilling for the war in congress. he was saying that, you know, saddam, it was connected to 911 and he was at least implying that and you know and saying that there was weapons of mass destruction. he was part of it. and so i wrote him the slot this memo, and i knew that this was not going to play nearly as well as the 1st one. because by that time war fever had developed. and of course in the f b i, which is kind of a want to be military mode. and so every nearly everyone i knew was pro war by the

time you get to february. so i knew that the agents association would not be supporting anyone who had so you know, had no worries about invading iraq. and of course that's what happened afterwards. i was forced to step down from my, my legal position that i had held for 13 years before that for, for over 13 years i had been the legal council. but the, you know, people said, oh, we can't trust you because you're against the war in iraq. so i, i stepped down from that into this day, i had my pension is, is reduced because i went down grade level. and then of course it was very difficult before i retired. i had to really take on some unpleasant assignments. assignments that i knew would be later, they could say, oh, colleen raleigh did this wrong, etc. one of which, by the way is inform an operation. so i became one of the informing coordinator and all 50 some offices of the api. i got criticized for inform it handling after the

whitey bolger. so it was well known that the informant thing was a complete mass. so, and i ended up doing that for a year before i retired, but by the way, just to make it to retirement eligibility and you know, the, the f b i, i'll say one more thing about after 911 they, they used to hire people that were of diverse backgrounds, you know, like myself, i was on the law, they had people in science. i had a friend who was actually a dentist, a mortician. there were people of all different backgrounds and it was a good thing because it brought different expertise to the f b i will after 911. really. they started focusing solely on hiring military officers, former military and of course, ideally, military intelligence officers in the f, b i and a large portion of the f b i knew hires were very much in this war mold because that's where they were

coming from. so that was one change after after not after the war on iraq. of course i retired at the end of 2004 and all i know about the other changes in the f b. i was what i see in the papers now. and of course, one of the things is the politicization of the, of the i, it's been used as a kind of a pawn. many higher level officials seem to have become ponds of the ruling political party. probably because they see revolving doors at the end of the day and they see how brand and, and all of these other, you know, high level people to go back and forth between government into these great, you know, doubling and tripling their salary. and so, so of that, of course, that became the case in the up the i and it became highly politicized. that was though, after i had already retired. thank you, calling raleigh. when we come back we ask former f b. i special agent colleen rally about today's f. b i and the role of

whistleblowers there. how has the atmosphere changed for a fee? i whistleblowers stay tuned. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 ah ah, with by the middle of the 19th century, practically the whole of india had been under the rule of the british empire. the colonial authorities had imposed that heavy death bringing the people into poverty and were exporting natural resources. and moreover, these authorities absolutely had no consideration for the provisions of the local population,

treating them like 2nd class citizens. the british were showing signs of disrespect even to those who cooperated with them. the fact of ignoring the religious beliefs of the hindus led to the mutiny embassy boys, mercenary soldiers serving under the british ground. 3000000000 began on the 10th of may 1857 in the garrison town of may river, north of india. in the form of a mutiny. the rebels quickly took over daily. the heroic resistance of the indian people lasted for one and a half years. however, the forces were not equal. the colonial authorities dealt with the rebels cruelly thine slaves the boys were tied to the mouth of the cannon and were shot right through their bodies for the amusement of the public. these type of execution was called the devil's when the obliteration of the mutiny resulted in the death of 800000 inhabitants of india. however, the british empire never broke the free spirit of the indians and their will for

resistance. we all came out together. we were all supposed to go home together. it didn't happen. a shot after shot after shot. the shot deer was asking. where's corey? where's a we knew he was gone. my name's kamani. carter, carly started the license for a gang related job. i had the 9 years ago, my big lasana she was also a student who was attending college. his name is corey pip. very young kids that seems were getting involved and horrendous violence. 20 to 30 years ago. i think there's no question that kitchen

cripps from ballet came up here and see it in this area. all my friends is either in prison now forever or day a game. this one it one who a

ah with . 2 ah, welcome back to the whistleblowers. i'm john kerry, uncle republican, congressman james jordan, released the statement saying that his office had been approached by 14 f. b. i whistleblowers who have complained to him that the f b. i has become politicized at the top of the organization. the complaints of these

f b i agents have been met with skepticism around washington. they've complained about how they were ordered to investigate parents who challenged school administrators at school board meetings. they complained that they were punished for participating in what became a riot on january 6, 2021. and they complained about the breadth and scope of the investigation into pipe bombs, placed near the republican and democratic national committee. headquarters were back with f. b, i was the blower and former special agent, colleen rally colleen. we know that the legal definition of whistle blowing is bringing to light any evidence of waste, fraud, abuse, illegality, or threats to the public health or public safety. what are your thoughts on allegations that the f b, i has become politicize to the point that the american people can't trust the organizations leadership? well, it has become very politicized. and we saw this with the rush, a gate 1st with the rush, a gate hoax where you had what's his name struck?

who was having an affair with another f, b i legal counsel. and they right back and forth and, and they're totally trying to keep trump from being elected and calling all kinds of name calling. and it looks like they actually acted in very obstructive and, and highly unusual way setting people up and trapping. and again, these were high, high local officials and actually struck ends up on robert muller's investigation. he, although he later is fired. so, you know, there's no doubt that the f b, i has become very politicized. and i think the agents that witness this in internally, especially the ones who have been seen it a lot of, there's only usually a 20 year career. so a lot of times the new agents don't know what's going on in the past unless they've kind of, you know, maybe been worked longer than that. but i think some of the old timers would understand that a lot changed after 911. and especially after trump selection,

or during trump selection, as these wars have gone on, this put more and more pressure on the, on the national security apparatus. and i think it also has politicize the national security apparatus, largely because there's a revolving door and the, the high level officials tend to get good, good paying jobs and consultancies, and other types of things with their network. and you, you can to keep good graces with the, the current administration in order to get the jobs. so for a lot of reasons, i think the whole, it's not just the up, the, i think the whole national security apparatus has become very politicized. after, you know, beginning after 911, but then greatly accelerating in this last decade. why would 14 different f b i agents go to one specific congressman known for his partisanship. is what we're

hearing from these agents legitimate whistle blowing information, or are they trying to make a political point? well, you know, i think you, you, as a whistle war, you're always going to seek out, whoever you think would listen to you. you know, edward snowden sought out when green, walt ok. he saw it. i'm glad you didn't just go to any report or out there because you have to know the background of that in the track record for we're in for basically honesty and for factual reporting. and so in picking and selecting of the reporter, snowdon picked greenwald. i think the so somewhat similarly many whistleblowers selected charles grassley who is from iowa want he's 90 years old now, i think, and he still running for another term. and when i testified to the judiciary, it was under the auspices of senator grassley office. and not only was he from iowa,

and i'm from iowa. so i thought, well, there's a little connection there, you know, i'm from iowa. but besides that, he has long been known as a whistle blowers, senator and that began when he found out all kinds of fraud involved in the pentagon. back in that i want to save in the eighty's. and then he, in the f b i, he really started to, to what, understand that the f b i had problems when the f b, i laboratory was some war, went to grass lee's office in the 1990 s. and this whistleblower told grassley that the f b i lab isn't even accredited. after all this time, all the other forensic labs in the country are accredited. they have to undergo testing, but the f b, i was so special and exceptional that they didn't even have to have to be accredited. so that was white hearse. and i think that really in a way it changed grass lease mind about a lot of things. and ever since that time,

lots and lots of whistleblowers, no matter if they go down to credit republican, went to grassley, especially if they were f b. i was the wars because they trusted that he would understand that they were telling the truth about things. now, other other senators, that other people might have gone to, it may well have been more of a partisan saying that, you know, all, i might, you know, everything became politicized. so ron johnson now is known for his stances against the po, v vaccine. and i mean, he's known for certain stances that he's taken, so it's possible that the, these are, these agents thought that he would be more receptive to their issues based on what he was publicly saying. i'm just going to add one thing. i copied 2 senators on my 1st memo about the failures of the f. b i and the 2 senators i copied. one was

a democrat feinstein and one was a republican. gosh, what was his name? oh i forget his name now, but neither one of them were the heads of the joint intelligence committee. graham and another guy were the heads of the joint intelligence committee. so the 2 i copied, warning, the heads of it, and the reason i copied them, i saw their names in an article in the paper, asking questions. that's the only reason i put their names on this memo is i said, well, they're asking pretty good questions. even though most of the senators were in the dark about this so that those are the ones i delivered my memo to just because i saw their names in the paper as having ask good questions. colleen, you were that rare whistleblower who did her whistle blowing in public. your recommendations were heated and you went on to complete a successful career. what advice would you give to other f b i whistle blowers including these for she who approach congressman jordan. where should they go to make their resolutions?

well, you know, it's really hard to give advice, as you well know to any person who knows something about a crime of the government or of a, of a government agency, fraud, waste abuse, or, or any legality. it doesn't, you know, i always, i used to advise people, make sure that you're, the issue is, is extremely important. make sure it's not just like, well, we're arguing about the color of the drapes. no, it has to be practically life and death issue. because you don't want to risk everything in your career and your reputation and whatever that used to be my advice. now, when things have gotten even far worse and pretty much they're using the espionage act to prosecute and imprison. ah, people like daniel hale who was basically told the truth about the drone assassination program. and the fact that it was, it was killing more civilians than it was killing targets. i mean,

that's something the public should should know and have a right to know. but you know, you still in prison, you know, i think he's already, you know, we're serving a 2nd year in prison and still has time to go. the use of the espionage act in one of the things that may be saved me back then in 2002 was that was then there was a common understanding that they would not use the espionage act to prosecute whistleblowers or certainly not publishers that they thought the 1st amendment protected information that was published well over these last 20 some years. this is all with the prior understanding of the espionage act, has literally been blown away to the point where now we're, we're trying to prosecute a foreign publisher for publishing, honest, truthful things because we don't like it. and it, we can say it violated the espionage yet. and they're, they're using it, they're,

they're actually talking about using that to charge trump the president for having on disclose, excuse me, classified documents. it's become widely used and abused the espionage act. there's no defense, as you know, that the, all i gave truthful information that was in the public interest, life and death information. you and i both know that that doesn't hold water. now. it was believed when i, when i spoke out, i think it was still of the white spread understanding that you were trying to save lives by telling the truth about something you would not be put in prison for that . and that's all changed in the last, again, these wars, i think the wars itself, truth is the 1st casualty of war. and so after 20 years, boy is truth, the casualty, and to the, to the extent now where it's commonplace for anybody trying to tell the truth, i mean these, these i'll later start whistleblowers. i don't know that they're in that much. ok.

no trouble. there is supposed to be a law. it was called the paul revere. excuse me. yeah. paul revere warn. our ability to warn act, a lawful let pass this back in the 1920 s. there's an old law are still on the books. freedom to warn is what it's called like the paul revere freedom to warn act . and basically it was supposed to protect our executive branch, ah, employees who went to congress. and in other words, that would be a going to a congress person. a sen would be the right place to take your at your information . that's an old law, but unfortunately it also has been swept under the rock. and i don't think that it's adhered to any more. i know grassley when i testified, they told me that, well, you're protect your projected for justifying to the judiciary committee because of

this all lawful, let freedom, the war and the congress law. but i actually think that's gone the by way now. so these agents are, at the very least, i think they would be, um, they are their jobs, they may keep them on the books working, but they'll be put into an office. i mean, put inside some place where they're counting paper clips, like one of the f a r read team. i was the wars that we both know. i mean, after he talked about 911 failures, he was put into a little office for like decades just counting paper clips. so i think that's definitely yes. ching, i said they won't have good careers after this. that's all we have for you today. thanks to our guest calling raleigh. i'm john kerry aku and this has been the whistleblowers. we'll see you next time. ah. 2 ah,

is this which across a community like oh i, i don't been from a former student from, for the diesel superscript, receive them on yucca to physically move it sort of feels this is a, is with this with the hi miss. all of the fun you with

joggers archipelago told me that she goes to san diego garcia, the largest island in the archipelago, is now the location of a very large u. s. military basis. you get given med div i to the us go. that meant to make a military base and just deported all of juggle, send people from their country. so they call it returned back on the island. no, but we are fighting. that's why i'm real fighting for the right. so i, we do not consider that the right to self determination actually applies to the trickle students. i don't the question of self determination. the legal advice we've received is actually the trickle. since we're not all, not a people for me, it's time to move on and see what we can do. a full the tumbler said for me to return back home knowledge to support from the united nation. i commission african

united nish. i don't care about douglas and people ah, a stripes reported across ukraine. our cities, including the capital here, are targeted by missiles also this, our escalating sanctions are providing weapons will only make it difficult to turn the situation around and even to provoke large scale confrontation. china's warning on the conflicts in ukraine as beijing says that western actions are provoking a larger scale conflict in the region. and america last policies. that's how one us senator labels a washington decision to send ukrainian soldiers to oklahoma. the patriot missile defense system training.