as he says, it's, as we know, america against russia, it's not rutter against ukraine or it maybe he's right that it's america against russia and china. that's an important aspect that he didn't mention, which of course is that there are, there is more than one front, which is what would make it qualifies a world war. and the other front, of course, is syria. that front has come down in recent months and years, but syria was in a way the 1st front in this war, which is now of course being played out in ukraine just as in the 2nd world war. and there were earlier wars which are not normally counted as part of the 2nd world war, but which, when you look at it probably were, let's say, early tremors which indicated the earthquake to come, i'm thinking of the spanish civil war. right. and there's a lot similarity between the ukraine war in the spanish civil war. course. there wasn't an invasion of spain by a foreign country, as there is in the case of, of russia and ukraine. but the spanish civil war is known as well known of calls

for the intervention practised by outside powers by the nazis on the one handed by the soviet union on the other. so the spanish will was a special was a proxy war much as we have in ukraine. and of course, to some extent it was a precursor to the 2nd world war. and so in that sense, i think that he is right. the big difference of course, is that we're in the nuclear age now, and that's why you can't really compare the 19th thirty's to the present period because of the big powers america, russia and china and san know that there are very serious limits to, ah, they can go to war with each other and that's why i think probably i would be less pessimistic than emmanuel told i wouldn't necessarily say that we're going to go towards a head on conflict by the proxy war. definitely. well jen george. your thoughts too, because emanuel taught in his article, he said that he talks about it, that this conflict as he claims we're in the middle of this 3rd world war. it's an exit central for the west, particularly the united states and russia. that's

a very interesting characterization characterization because i would say from a security point of view, it's a proxy war on the part of the united states to weaken russia. we've even heard the secretary of defense say that, but he says it's just as ex, as central to the west, which is quite an interesting characterization. go ahead, george. no, i think that's right. and it has the con, the existential. because the west has chosen to go down this path. it didn't have to be existential for russia. yes, absolutely. thanks, essential. but once the united states essentially committed itself in such a whole hearted way to the school and has refused all reasonable attempts to negotiate, i'm to bring this to some kind of a conclusion. then it has now become existential. the united states. it's very hard to see how the united states can back away from where it's come to. and in fact,

all the indications up that the united states is preparing to escalate those an article in the new york times of the other day in which was clearly us officials briefly new york times reported that they were planning to help you crane target of targets inside russia, including crimea, once the united states goes down this path, then i think it's all bets are off and, and then we really are in the territory of shooting was. so i wouldn't be quite so optimistic. well, because the nuclear power and it won't come to that, i think that it could well come to that simply because this is where we've got to. because once united states in box on this course, helping to target targets inside russia, russia will retaliate. the 1st thing it will do will be to target american

satellites. it has to because it's the use of satellites that enables this targeting to take place. and then who knows how the united states would respond. so, you know, i think we are in a very dangerous, it's very interesting alex, let me go to i, george george and john are both right. depending on how you want to look at the argument here. because this was a craven on the part of the united states didn't. they did not have to go in to use ukraine as a proxy. it has done it and it will continue to do so just for the very reasons of prestige and to make sure it's allies, they with it, which i want to talk more about. but i mean, this is a choice on the part of the, of the united states forcing its nato allies to go down this path. go ahead. nice, absolutely. i mean, look out, this is been, this pressure's been on for a long time when i was talking about the past year since the war broke out in ukraine. i was reporting back in 2014 by j t t f,

which are canadian special forces trixie up to, to be exact being on the ground in ukraine and training what we're known to be. wall street journal's written about neo nazis, probably sector at the time as well as the, as on the tally. and now the canadians were involved. the brits have been involved french have been involved of course the americans of the, of all, there is a push with some call it needle creepy. can call it what you like. this did not have to go down that way was we saw russia in discussion at the very point. say, hey, all you gotta say is that you're not going to spread nato in this direction. give us a couple of guarantees and there will be no problems here. but the u. s. whatever was coming out to washington dc was what, you know, what they got the freedom to do whatever they want. so that is countries, you know, everybody's got their own well in freedom to do what they want as an individual nation, which we've seen time and time again, united states not allowing countries to do what they want, but when it works out for them, it works great. with this examples, and that's the thing, brush reacted now. the question is, and i agree with todd,

100 percent, russia did not have to react the way it reacted at this time in history. there was no immediate threat that something was going to go down, that there was any big or spill over of nato into ukraine at this moment. they got suckered in they got pulled into this war. and now what we have is something that can lead to a 3rd world war. what i want to say is we don't, we're talking about world war 2. let's go back to world war one. this looks like world war one, watch a movie, a long roach war tells you the whole story, the world war. one started decades prior to world war one, actually starting, and gabriella principal, sorry, able, and it was all about russia was the germans of austro hungarian wanting to get to russia. this is similar in that aspect. if they don't want to get to russia to we can russia, and now we have the situation on our hands that can become much worse than just a situation approachable or new child. i mean, we all agree. it's a proxy war here. we can talk about how it is existential for what party. but i would posit that it is existential for nato. not for american security, not by

a long shot, but nato. they're putting everything on the table here. this is a, this is a game of russian roulette here, and they're the ones pulling the trigger. go ahead john. yeah, i think that's right. and i, i think that's it. though i do agree with the manual toner as well that it's existential for the united states. and in the sense that definitely for nato, but also for the americans in the sense that they postwar hegemony of the united states is of course on the head, germany of the dollar. as well as on military supremacy and the americans and, and the europeans as well. for that matter have shot themselves in the foot on the monetary question, or by as we know, freezing people's assets and essentially stealing that the money of other countries . and this is of an incredibly stupid thing to do because of course it means that no one is going to put money into a country ever. no 3rd, no 3rd power and so on is going to do that because they've seen what can happen to

their money. and if the dollar germany crumbles as it it is doing with the increasing closeness between not just russia and china, but also between iran and russia. saudi arabia and russia are then indeed they had germany will be threatened. a told to make another point which is about cultural. he jam. oh you, john, you're getting ahead of me. i think that but go ahead please. because i wanted to do that was a, in the 2nd world war, sorry, in the cold war. the soviet union, of course, had a, a large amount of soft power in the sense that it was the leading a power of communism and communism existed all over the world. and so communists from latin america to the far east, looked to moscow. now it's the issue of conservative values versus woke ism, you know, the collective west nato and so on, is, is heavily it has gone deeply down the white groups, you know, gay marriage and transsexuals them and so on. and russia's clinicals that doesn't

go down very well in most other parts of the world, but in africa, not in south america, probably not even in the far east, excuse me. and russia, of course, is playing that card quite quite dexterously. so, so in that sense, i think that the cultural hegemony of the west is also under threat as well as the military and economic germany. well, at george, you know that, you know, this is one of my favorite topics to talk about. i got 30 seconds before we go to the break. the cultural element is key to this argument here. go ahead, george real quick. when it is a key because during the cold war, the soviet union really wasn't a particularly appealing cultural phenomena. and i mean, you know, it was culturally very r conservatives where you stop me politically. it was obviously a very unattractive and as an economic model in terms of its consumer goods, lateral lateral, it wasn't a very attractive and you know,

but he did have military law. something has changed drastically. and that is that the west is now culturally, again gone down a very strong right gorge. hold that, thought george, i got to go to a hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on a global conflict state with for is your media reflection of reality in the world transformed what will make you feel safer? isolation for community. are you going the right way? or are you being that some with what is true? what is faith?

in the world corrupted, you need to descend, ah, to join us in the depths or remain in the shallows. ah, ah, a with a clinician with them all go, you have to be almost a glass,

you know, we do a flash from. yeah, cuz i thought that was good enough. i just wonder, was it a love to let you know? just give you the quote, what, what would you like for those? you will do it all good with no feet? no, all a computer would you do by the the news. welcome back to cross stock. were all things are considered? i'm peter belcher, manager. we're discussing global conflict the

i want to know, i want to go back to george and in budapest here because we started talking about a really critical issue about this global conflict. and it is on the back of an article by menu. well, todd fascinating thinker and writer george, i mean if you're, if you're, you know, you could talk about economics. if you said the soviet union was not an attractive model for many in the world, but it was anti colonial was anti western. so that was, you know, enough to get you interested in, but now we're in a very different era. the western model cultural model is very attractive for most of the world right now. and we add to that the decline if at gemini, the global south or the global majority, as i like to refer to them, they don't have any appreciation for western culture anymore. if they even call culture. and they're not afraid of the west, like they used to be short. yes, i think so. and the west has gone down to strange bar. woke is in which it has challenged traditional relations between men and women. traditional marriage,

embrace gay marriage and now it's embrace the trends, right? the idea that you would just simply define your own gender and everybody has to pull down on the knees and accept your claim to be a man or a woman, irrespective of your biological sex muscle. the world, this just seems so bizarre and alien and this is what they come to associate with the west. moreover, all of the appealing aspects of western culture house seem to be appealing to hollywood movies, which used to be in love the maya around the world. you know, the gangs, the movies, the screwball comedies, all the things are very popular. now come to be paid to the movies, all stupidly violent in a women beating up man and all the rest. and, you know, the in the other countries are coming up with their own cultural brands that are

actually quite becoming quite popular around the world. you know, chinese, hong kong cinema, taiwan cinema and hollywood has lost his appeal. and that was his key to american soft power. you know that the, the, all of our hollywood films and some of vision work this last that then and, you know, the american stuff, you know, is, goes out the window, you know, alex, i mean what, what we're all talking about in this part of the program. hasn't been used yet, but it's all about different forms of sovereignty. cultural sovereignty, societal sovereignty. but there's an, you know, i want to go back to a manual talk. he says that europe has become a kind of imperial protectorate, which has, has little sovereignty. and for our viewers, he's focusing on the outcome of the 2nd world war, germany and japan. primarily they are the main protectorate. and the, the, the spheres in which american power revolves around in europe and in asia right

here. how do you look at that? because it's really quite remarkable. you know, you have the president of the united states with the german chancellor, which i referred to as sergeant schultz next to him in january of last year. and they were talking about the north stream to a german russian project. and, well, what we, you know, how will you and it will end it. okay. i mean, and then you have the german chancellor standing there smiling like a chimpanzee. i mean, look like a complete but phone. ok. germany did. nothing is matter fact. nobody's really interested in what happened to the pipelines. it's extraordinary. how submissive these countries are when, particularly germany is the powerhouse of europe. alex, a nice, you know. yeah, not a leaders in germany, that power house of europe buds, germany will seen as a green power house, the country that i was moving this confident forward when it comes to green everything. and then you blow up a pipeline and cause more environmental damage. and, you know, the guy can tell,

but i don't know how much a lot there is like. one of the biggest environmental disasters has happened in a long, long time. who did it? you know, they will never know will never know. you got to keep on jessica. look, europe is europe it's. it's still a step better than what we have back in canada. i can't speak for the united states . i have to qualify myself here. i'm a big supporter of pierre trudeau, the old trudeau, and what he said, which was that what you do, your bedroom is nobody's. i'm feel 100 percent like that. i agree with that 100 percent. but once you start telling people what to do, once you bring transvestite to the school, to dance around children, once you trans best title transsexual people into to races with women. once we start working up these mines, things start not to make sense. now, i'm going to tell you something that pendulum might have swung in one direction and it's about crazy direction right now. but there are

a lot of people and they're not looking towards rush hour towards the south or towards china or anybody else. canadians and other countries are looking towards people within their own nations to take that step back and how the pendulum land someplace in the middle, again, all for gay, right. but don't shove it in my face. and that's the problem. well, i mean, yeah, but, but i think i, i'm certainly in the viewers of this program would agree with you. but let me go to john here. we can throw in ukraine and we can throw in trans rights we can throw in, woke as i'm all of these things in much, much more because institutionally, in the west, it is basically a 90 with 10 percent imbalance here. i'm talking about education. i could be jamia entertainment news. i mean, we could go on and on here. i don't have a whole lot of hope that the pendulum is going to go back in the other direction. as matter of fact, these people double down, they double down on the proxy war in syria as a spoiler decade after it came to an end. and there is,

there is no sign they're going to give up on ukraine until the last your grading is dead. i have no hope the pendulum is going to move in the other direction. your thoughts got more in the pendulum go much. well, i mean, i never under apps like never underestimate people. ok. i want to go to john here going to john paris. i think you're absolutely right about the work element in the cultural well, the universities, the media and so on. but the point that i was making in that george and alex were making, i think, is how it plays out on the international stage. and there it doesn't play out well, nor does the, another aspect of a gemini that has disappeared. i think since the cold war is, of course moral had gemini go, you know, some people may have been an american during the cold war, but the united states had a rather better claim i would say to some kind of moral the gemini then than it does now it's gamble that all the way it's, it's spend tool that moral capital with its own illegal was iraq yugoslavia, syria,

you mentioned and so on. and it's also gambled it away because of course, you know, you know, you mentioned the pipelines. the relationship between the united states and european countries is the relationship between a mafia boss and pizza. paula owners, you know, if they, if you don't do what they say they come round and splash up your windows. everybody in europe knows that the americans blow the pipelines. everyone in germany knows that the americans the, the pipelines yet it's not that they're submissive. of course, they're submissive, but they're submissive because they can't say it in public because the americans control them through violence. and they know that if they were to who point the finger at the americans having thrown up the pipelines, then the americans will come and blow up something else again. and that's all basically while an extremely unpleasant position for the european governments. and when they can't get out for the time being, of course is the very opposite of any kind of moral gemini. so that also,

i think is, is a cause for some kind of some glimmer of light on the horizon here is here. so absolutely right. you know, george, i saw a couple of weeks ago, george mearsheimer on a doing a debate with called built that more on built. and it was in the canadian setting up i wasn't, i'm not mistaken. and mir shermer, which i had some differences with him. he's not a good debater, but he did say something that really resonated and shocked the crowd. he said american foreign policy is like godzilla. ok and but i mean, i'm just echoing what, what john was saying, right there. god, zillah, when god villas angry, there's no compromise. you don't talk with god villa george. yes, this is a very good point. and this is really the, the problem is that what they get, he is a us aggression us lies in order to justify aggression and above all, a content for the national sovereignty of other countries. and this is

again, probably this issue of soft power because russia and china are the leaders of a kind of global movement on behalf of national serenity. they say, well like, you know, you know, a serious country if you allow others to determine your faith. and unfortunately, the europeans, stupidly having walked into nato, having walked into the european union, suddenly waking up and finding that they have no natural serenity that their destinies of being decided by others. and that they just been deluding themselves that they somehow decide things for themselves. and i think when russia and china point this out, then you know, the rest of the world, listen, yeah, that's, that's the right. you know, you are not a serious country if you allow us to determine your foreign and security policy. and this is way to what has happened to europe,

that europe is just simply subordinated itself completely to the united states and they are not serious countries, you know? yeah. or jump out at noon or just you're, if you're an outlier, if you're an outlier like serbia, you're in trouble. right? and so you're one of these countries that's an outlier that doesn't want to be subjugated by the european union. that doesn't necessarily want to be subjugated by russia, either. you're trying to be in the middle, just like you get sloppy. it was during the cold war. and what happens to you while you get a situation? well, actually what i like now if you could, i mean i'm a group, i'm agree with you, alex, it's interesting because the west sit traditionally since the 2nd world war has tried to shown itself as a progressive and in about in a positive sense, leader. you know, and what a, what is possible. and so what the europeans have done is that they've, they've gotten under the captive wing of the, of the united states and the collective west. doesn't that send a message to other countries in the world? do not go down that path. if you want to have control of your, your sovereignty,

go ahead, alex. well, you know that the issue is, it's not a control of sovereignty anymore. it's a question of do you want the help on data? we saw that happened in 1999. and like there was, there's rumors about weapons being diverted from ukraine down the cost of down to boss here, right now, the situation on the cost of border is not improving at all. whatever is being said, it was put back to world war one, gets lobby or serbia at the time, a 1000 times over pleated with the germans. the germans would make a request, the serbia or you can stop at the time. it's a yes, we'll do it. yes, we'll do it. yes, we'll do it until the request became so outlandish that they couldn't fulfill the request. and there we go. now you got a war that's exactly. i think that's happening in serbia right now. the requests are land just when it comes to constable and the push is on. it's what when americans decide to pull the trigger, it's going to be. well, alex felt when they decide to pull the trigger or according to manual todd they already have, but they don't want americans to die. that's very interesting. they want everybody else to die for their goals. and i think they're outdated and very unwanted

global ideology gentlemen. that's all the time we have. i want to thank my guests and parents, nice and in budapest, and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here. are the see you next time. remember, across the the news ah, in 1834, france invaded algeria, and straight away the french started inhabiting it to strengthen their position. the colonists known as b a. no. ours took the best land from day one, the local population was put into an unequal position and was brutally exploited.

this caused mass discontent. the people of algeria began their long term fight for independence. in 1954, the banner of freedom was raised by the national liberation front. a guerrilla war against the occupants broke out. the french tried to suppress to rebellion using cruel measures. full villages were wiped out packs of georgia and executions of civil people, including pregnant women children and old people took place more than 2000000 people were put into concentration camps. however, these punitive measures didn't help the algerian patriots managed to induce france to start these negotiations. in 1962 evian records were signed, voting algeria on the past towards independence. but this was achieved at a colossal price. algeria by rights is considered to be

a country of martyrs. according to the calculations of historians, the french colonists are responsible for the deaths of one and a half 1000000 algerians. long. no one else seemed wrong when all through. just a few feet out. the same becomes the african a trail ah, when so many find themselves will depart, we choose to look for common ground. for only one main thing is important for knox isn't internationally speaking to that is that nations, but that's allowed to do anything. all the mazda races, and then you have the minor nation. so all the slaves, americans,

proc obama and others have had a concept of american exceptionalism. international law exist as long as it serves american interest. if it doesn't, it doesn't exist by turning those russians into this. danger is go, you man, that wants to take over the world. that was a cut. your strategy was unblocked. as of it, on your own, i not leashed off to exhibit in tablet block. nato said it's ours. we moved east. the reason us, hey jim, it is so dangerous. is it the by the sovereignty of all the countries? the exceptionalism that american uses and its international war planning is one of the greatest threats to the populations of different nations. if nature, what is bad shareholders in united states and elsewhere in large obs companies would lose millions and millions or is business and business is good. and that is

the reality of what we're facing, which is fashion. with a question you stay with a. ringback which is obviously you still with a, with a national anthem. com, a

copy from, wanted to see if the boys are new to meet with a office. admit that a you couldn't even participant in these tools with multiple last year was murdered by mistake. off the report said he was killed by the cranium. national security service being over russian spy, pushing us interest over child strong ties with africa about how the continent media is describing the us treasury secretary 11 day visit to africa a over a 1000000 people.