not being reported anywhere except on right wing media to an extent boxes, as caleb mentioned. and you know, on, on the of the certain websites. but no, i think the, the american public already knows according to many, many polls. some done by the, the media research center that the media ranks way, way down when it comes to trust because everybody knows it's a left wing mouthpiece. and that they, if they, they know that they've set that and they go about their business accordingly. based on that was all there are people can make up their own minds, they can read it up the media research center dot org site. let's see if they. well, steve, oh, it's a pleasure. thanks for your time today. steve mouth for a talk show hosts live and movie. thank you. yeah, i'm not is where we leave a busy news. our 9 30 in the evening here in moscow. i'll be back at the top of the are with all the main news headlights they with us. ah,

ah, ah ah ah. with hello and welcome to cross talk. we're all things considered. i'm peter lavelle in a recent interview. french intellectual, emmanuel todd claims. the 3rd world war has already started. it's epicenter is of course, ukraine, and it's a western war against russia and china. if this scholar is correct and we can expect to be living in a very dangerous world for a very long time. i

cross sucking global conflict. i'm joined by my guest, george samuel l. e. in budapest. he's a podcast or the goggle which can be found on youtube locals in paris. we have john laughlin, he is a university lecture in history and political philosophy and it needs to be crossed to alex me. hello badge. he is a veteran reporter and foreign affairs analyst, or a gentleman cross stock rolls. in fact, that means you can jump any time you want and i will appreciate it. let me go to john 1st and paris in la figaro and the pages of the pig row. we had emanuel todd talk about global change going on. and the epicenter of that change, of course, is ukraine. but he characterizes it as already were in the 3rd world war. because i think a lot of has been watching the commentary ever since of february of last year that we could be going for on the, on the edge of we could be all those kind of stuff here. this is a anthropologist, if i'm not mistaken. he says we're already in it in it just, john your thoughts? yeah, i mean, i know a manual told and he is mainly famous for having predicted the end of the soviet

union in the 1980s on the basis of the falling to the demographics of the soviet union. and is it a 3rd world war? well, yes, there are some aspects in which is the 3rd world war, obviously, as he says, it's as we know, america against russia. it's not rutter against ukraine, or it may be, he's right, that it's america against russia and china. that's an important aspect that he didn't mention, which of course is that there are, there is more than one front, which is what would make it qualifies world war. and the other front, of course, is syria. that front has come down in recent months and years. but syria was in a way the 1st front in this war, which is now of course, being played out in ukraine just as in the 2nd world war. and there were earlier was which are not normally counted as part of the 2nd world war, but which, when you look at, it probably were, let's say, early tremors which indicated the earthquake to come,

i'm thinking of the spanish civil war. right. and there's a lot similarity between the ukraine war and the spanish civil war. both there wasn't an invasion of spain by a foreign country, as there is in the case of, of russia and ukraine. but so the spanish civil war is known as well known of calls for the intervention practiced by outside powers by the nazis on the one handed by the soviet union on the other. so the spanish will was a special was a proxy war much as we have in ukraine. and of course, to some extent it was a precursor to the 2nd world war. and so in that sense, i think that he is right. the big difference of course, is that we're in the nuclear age now, and that's why you can't really compare the 900 thirty's to the present period because of the big powers america. russia and china and san know that there are very serious limits to how they can go to war with each other. and that's why i think probably i would be less pessimist stick. the man who had told i wouldn't necessarily say that we're going to go towards a head on conflict,

but the proxy war definitely. well george here thought to because in many ways taught in his article, he talks about this conflict. as he claims were in the middle of this 3rd world war, it's an ex, essential for the west, particularly the united states and russia. that's a very interesting characterization characterization because i would say from a security point of view, it's a proxy war on the part of the united states to weaken. russia will even heard the secretary depend, say that, but he says it's just as ex essential to the west, which is quite an interesting characterization. go ahead, george. no, i think that's right. and it has the con, existential, because the west has chosen to go down this path. it didn't have to be existential for russia. yes, absolutely. thanks, essential. but once the united states essentially committed itself in such a hard way to the school and has refused all

reasonable attempts to negotiate, i'm to bring this to some kind of a conclusion. then it has now become existential. the united states. it's very hard to see how the united states can back away from where it's come to. and in fact, a all the indications that the united states is preparing to escalate those an article in the new york times the other day in which was clearly us officials briefly new york times reported that they were planning to help you crane target of targets inside russia, including crimea, once the united states goes down this path, then i think it's all bets are off and, and then we really are in the territory of shooting was. so i wouldn't be quite so optimistic. well, because the nuclear power and it won't come to that, i think that it could well come to that simply because this is where we've got to

become once united states in box on this course, helping to target targets inside russia. russia will retaliate. the 1st thing it will do will be to target american satellites. it has to because it's the use of satellites that enables this targeting to take place. and then who knows how the united states would respond. so, you know, i think we are in a very dangerous, it's very interesting alex, let me go to i, george george and john are both right. depending on how you want to look at the argument here. because this was a craven on the part of the united states didn't. they did not have to go in to use ukraine as a proxy. it has done it and it will continue to do so just for the very reasons of prestige and to make sure it's allies, they with it, which i want to talk more about. but i mean, this is a choice on the part of the, of the united states forcing its nato allies to go down this path. go ahead. nice,

absolutely. i mean, look out, this has been dis, pressure's been on for a long time when i was talking about the past year since the war broke out in ukraine. i was reporting back in 2014 by j t t f, which are canadian, special forces directly to you up to, to be exact, be on the ground in ukraine and training what we're known to be. wall street journal's written about neo nazis, probably sector at the time as well as the, as the county. and now the canadians were involved. the brits have been involved french have been involved of course the americans of the, of all, there's a push with some call it needle creepy. can call it what you like. this did not have to go down that way was we saw russia in discussion at the very point. say, hey, all you gotta say is that you're not going to spread nato in this direction. give us a couple of guarantees and there will be no problems here. but the u. s. whatever was coming out to washington dc was what, you know, what they got the freedom to do whatever they want. so that is countries, you know, everybody's got their own will and freedom to do what they want as an individual

nation, which we've seen time and time again, united states not allowing countries to do what they want, but when it works out for them, it works great. with this examples, and that's the thing, brush reacted now. the question is, and i agree with todd, 100 percent, russia did not have to react the way it reacted at this time in history. there was no immediate threat that something was going to go down, that there was any big or spill over of nato into ukraine at this moment. they got suckered in they got pulled into this war. and now what we have is something that can lead to a 3rd world war. what i want to say is we don't, we're talking about world war 2. let's go back to world war one. this looks like world war one, watch a movie, a long roach war tells you the whole story, the world war, one started decades prior to world war, when actually starting. and gabriella, principally sorry able, and it was all about russia was the germans of austro hungarian. want to get to russia. this is similar in that aspect. it's natal wanting to get to russia. we can russia,

and now we have the situation on our hands that can become much worse than just the situation of proxy warn you. john, i mean we all agree. it's a proxy war here. we can talk about how it is ex essential for what party. but i would posit that it is existential for nato. not for american security, not by a long shot, but nato. they're putting everything on the table here. this is a, this is a game of russian roulette here. and they're the ones pulling the trigger. go ahead, john. yeah, i think that's right. and i think that though i do agree with the manual told as well, that it's existential for the united states. and in the sense that definitely for nato, but also for the americans in the sense that they postwar germany of the united states is of course on the head, germany of the dollar. as well as on military supremacy and the americans and, and the europeans as well. for that matter have shot themselves in the foot on the monetary question, or by as we know of freezing people's assets and essentially stealing that the

money of other countries. and this is an incredibly stupid thing to do because of course it means that no one is going to put money into a country ever. no 3rd, no 3rd power and so on is going to do that because they've seen what can happen to their money. and if the dollar germany crumbles as it it is doing with the increasing closeness between not just russia and china, but also between iran and russia. saudi arabia and russia are then indeed they had germany will be threatened. a told to make another point which is about cultural hegemony. you, john, you're getting ahead of me as exact, but go ahead please. because i wanted to do that was a, in the 2nd world war, sorry, in the cold war. the soviet union, of course, had a large amount of soft power in the sense that it was the leading a power of communism and communism existed all over the world. and so communists from latin america to the far east, looked to moscow. now it's the issue of conservative values versus woke, is them,

you know, the collective west nato and so on, is, is heavily it has gone deeply down the white groups, you know, gay marriage and transsexuals them, and so on. and russia's ethnical set doesn't go down very well in most other parts of the world. not in africa, nodded south america, probably not even in the far east. the excuse me. and russia, of course, is playing that card ah, quite to quite dexterously so. so in that sense, i think that the cultural hegemony of the west is also under threat, as well as the military and economic germany. well, at george, you know that, you know, this is one of my favorite topics to talk about. i got 30 seconds before we go to the break. the cultural element is key to this argument here. go ahead, george, real quick. well, it is a key because during the cold war, the soviet union really wasn't a particularly appealing cultural phenomenon. i mean, it was culturally very

r conservatives where you stop it politically. it was obviously a very unattractive and as an economic model in terms of its consumer goods, like la, it wasn't a very attractive and you know, but he did have military now. something has changed drastically and that is that the west is now culturally again gone down a very strong regard. told that don george, i got to go to a hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on a global complex date with blue, blue, blue with

ah, what are you crazy? yes. or to columbia? i lost most of my friends. but i was broken. i wasn't able to save anyone. i did nothing in that i met wilson, 2030 and god, what's really in my way to make me start talking to willy waiting for me

to have him i'm happy that i did find his willy little john. you can go to sleep. mamma, he become my new friend. the one was love gonna die or i was he is going to stay alive. it was they next to me. if i'm not crazy enough, i'm not gonna make it. ah

the welcome back to cross stock were all things considered? i'm peter lavelle to manual discussing global conflict. i guess i wanted to, i want to go back to george and in budapest here because we started talking about a really critical issue about this global conflict. and it is on the back of an article by menu. well, todd fascinating thinker and writer george, i mean if you're, if you're, you know, you could talk about economics. and he said the soviet union was not an attractive model for many in the world, but it was anti colonial was anti western. so that was, you know, enough to get you interested in, but now we're in a very different era. the western model cultural model is very unattractive for most of the world right now. and we add to that the decline if at gemini, the global south or the global majority, as i like to refer to them, they don't have any appreciation for western culture anymore. even call culture.

and they're not afraid of the west. like they used to be short. yes, i think so. and that the west has gone down to strange bar woke is in which it has challenged traditional relations between men and women, traditional marriage embrace gay marriage and now it's embrace the trends. right. the idea that you would just simply define your own gender and everybody has to pull down on the knees and accept your claim to be a man or a woman, irrespective of your biological sex, you must of the world. this just seems so bizarre and alien and this is what they come to associate with the west. moreover, all of these appealing aspects of western culture house now seems to be appealing to hollywood movies, which used to be in love the maya around the world. you know, the gang, some movies, the screwball comedies, all the things are very popular. i've now come to be, hey,

to the movies. all stupidly violent in a women beating up man and all the rest. and, you know, the other countries are coming up with their own cultural brands that are actually quite becoming quite popular around the world. you know, chinese cinema, hong kong cinema, taiwan cinema and hollywood has lost this appeal. and that was his key to american soft power. you know, the, the, the, all pervasiveness of hollywood, it's still there is some, a vision work this last that then and, you know, the american stuff, you know, is, goes out the window, you know, alex, i mean what, what we're all talking about in this part of the program hasn't been used yet, but it's all about different forms of sovereignty. cultural sovereignty, societal sovereignty, but different, you know, i want to go back to emmanuel todd. he says that europe has become

a kind of imperial protectorate, which has, has little sovereignty. and for our viewers, he's focusing on the outcome of the 2nd world war, germany and japan. primarily they are the main protectorate. and the, the, the spheres in which american power revolves around in europe and in asia right here. how do you look at that? because it's really quite remarkable. you know, you have the president of the united states with the german chancellor, which i referred to as sergeant schultz next to him in january of last year. and they were talking about the north stream to a german russian project. and well, what we're, you know, how will you end? it will end it. ok. i mean, and then you have the german chancellor setting their smiley like a chimpanzee. i mean, look like a complete but phone. ok. germany did. nothing is matter fact. nobody's really interested in what happened to the pipelines. it's extraordinary. how submissive these countries are when, particularly germany is the powerhouse of europe. alex,

a nice, you know. yeah, not a leaders in germany, that power house of europe buds, germany will seen as a green power house, the country that i was moving this continent forward when it comes to green everything. and then you blow up a pipeline and cause more environmental damage. and, you know, the only guy can tell, but i don't know how much a lot there is like it was. one of the biggest environmental disasters has happened in a long, long time. who did it? you know, they will never know will never know. you've got to keep on jessica. look, europe is europe. it's still a step better than what we have back in canada. i can't speak for the united states . i have to qualify myself here. i'm a big supporter of pierre trudeau, the old trudeau, and what he said, which was that what you do, your bedroom is nobody's. i'm feel 100 percent like that. i agree with that 100 percent. but once you start telling people what to do, once you bring transvestite to the school, to dance around children,

once you trans best title transsexual people into bailey teresa's with women. once we start working up these mines, things start not to make sense. now, i'm going to tell you something that pendulum might have swung in one direction and it's about crazy direction right now. but there are a lot of people and they're not looking towards rush hour towards the south or towards china or anybody else. canadians and other countries are looking towards people within their own nations to take that step back and how the pendulum land someplace in the middle, again, all for gay, right. but don't shove it in my face. and that's the problem. well, i mean yeah, but, but i think i will, i'm certainly the viewers of this program would agree with you. but let me go to john here. we can throw in ukraine and we can throw in trans rights we can throw in, woke as i'm all of these things in much, much more because institutionally, in the west, it is basically a 90 with 10 percent imbalance. here. i'm talking about education. i could media

entertainment news, i mean, we could go on and on here, i don't have a whole lot of hope that the pendulum is going to go back in the other direction. matter of fact, these people double down, they double down on a proxy war in syria as a spoiler decade after it came to an end. and there's, there's no sign they're going to give up on ukraine until the last, the grading is dead. i have no hope the pendulum is going to move in the other direction. your thoughts got more in the pendulum go much. well, when i b. c, i never under apps like never underestimate people. ok. i want to go to john here going to john paris. i think you're absolutely right about the woke element in the cultural world, the universities, the media and so on. but to the point that i was making and that george and alex were making, i think his is how it plays out on the international stage. and there it doesn't play out well, nor does the, another aspect of a gemini that has disappeared. i think since the cold war is, of course moral,

had german harry go, you know, some people may have been anti american during the cold war, but the united states had a rather better claim i would say to some kind of moral to germany then than it does now it's gamble that all away. ah, it's, it's spend tool that's her moral capital with its own illegal walls. iraq yugoslavia, syria, you mentioned and so on. and it's also gambled it away because of course, either you know, peter, you mentioned the pipelines that the relationship between the united states and european countries is the relationship between a mafia boss and pizza. paula owners, you know, if they, if you don't do what they say, they come round and smash up your windows. everybody in europe knows that the americans blow up the pipelines. every one in germany knows that the americans, though the pipelines, yet it's not that they're submissive. of course they're submissive, but they're submissive because they can't say it in public because the americans control them through violence. and they know that if they were to point the finger

at the americans having blown up the pipelines than the americans will come and blow up something else again. and that'll beslee while an extremely unpleasant position for the european governments. and when one they can't get out of for the time being, of course is the very opposite of any kind of moral her gemini. so that also, i think is a, is a cause for some kind of i've, some glimmer of light on the horizon. here is here so absolutely right. you know, george, i saw a couple of weeks ago a george mearsheimer on a doing a debate with carl built that moron built and, and it was in canadian setting up i wasn't, i'm not mistaken. and mere shy mer, which i had some differences with him. he's not a good debater, but he did say something that really resonated and shocked the crowd. he said american foreign policy is like god, villa. ok. and but i mean, i'm just echoing what john was saying, right there. i got villa when god villas angry. there's no compromise. you don't talk with god villa george. yes, that's

a very good point. and this is really the, the problem is that what they get, he is the us aggression us lines in order to justify aggression and above all, a contempt for the national, still relative of all the countries. and this is again, probably this issue of song how, because russia and china, the leaders that what kind of global movement on behalf of national so relative they say what like a, you know, you, you want a serious country. if you are allow others to determine your phrase. fortunately, the europeans, stupidly having walked into native, having walked into the european union, suddenly waking up and finding that they have no national serenity that they're destined is being decided by others. and that they've just been deluding them so that they somehow decide things for themselves. and i think when russia and trying

to point this out, then you know, the rest of the world will listen. yeah, that's absolutely, you know, you are not a serious country. if you allow us to determine your foreign and security policy, and this is really what has happened to europe, that europe is just subordinated itself completely to the united states and, you know, they are not serious countries. you know? yeah, i mean, or jacks out. i mean, or jack here, if you're an outlier, if you're an outlier, like serbia, you're in trouble. right? so you're one of these countries, that's an outlier. that doesn't want to be subjugated by the european union. that doesn't necessarily want to be subjugated by russia. either. you're trying to be in the middle, just like you get sloppy was during the cold war. and what happens to you while you get a situation? well, actually what alex now is, you're going to, and i mean, i'm a good, i'm agree with you alex. it's interesting because the west that traditionally since the 2nd world war is trying to show itself as a progressive in, in about, in a positive sense, leader as you know, and what a,

what is possible. and so what the europeans have done is that they've, they've gotten under the captive wing of the, of the united states and the collective west. doesn't that send a message to other countries in the world do not go down that path. if you want to have control of your, your sovereignty, go ahead alex. well, you know that the issue is it's not a control of sovereignty anymore. it's a question of do you want the help on data? we saw that happened in 1999. and like there was, there's rumors about weapons being diverted from ukraine down the cost of all and down to bob's the right now, the situation on the cost of borders, not improving at all. whatever is being said, it, this is why it went back to world war one, gets lobby or serbia at the time, a 1000 times over pleated with the germans. the germans would make a request, the serbia or you can solve at the time. it's a yes we'll do it. yes, we'll do it. yes. we'll do it until the request became so outlandish that they couldn't fulfill the request. and there we go. now you got toward the exact same thing that's happening in serbia right now. the requests are land just when it comes to constable and the push is on. it's what when americans decide to pull the

trigger, it's going to be well alex or they'll when they decide to pull the trigger or according to manual todd they already have. but they don't want americans to die. that's very interesting. they want everybody else to die for their goals. and i think they're outdated and very unwanted global ideology gentlemen. that's all the time we have. i want to thank my guests and parents, nice and in budapest, and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here. are the see you next time? remember the the the i choose

ah. with boss with you, i finished the grad school with key at the washington. keep the process is, can you dealer miley complete with us for go you guys to phone with you see a professional lithium to work with ah,

[000:00:00;00] with western defense chief discuss new arm supplies to ukraine, yet another huge usa package. a nice, but there's no decision by germany on whether to send its public leverage with western states. move the pump more items into you. crazy. russia shines a light on the deadly results that a un security council meeting where victims and mother revealed with the residents from a residence