a, you know, behind you will be due to the suspect and that's the formation of the system. the space system was based on a received on polo d of, of being c. no, would you rope eons as, as fine as, as be deserving of human rights. and privileges that go, you know, we, we, such rights are surrounded by the look on the lights meant, eat on the order. and, you know, non western, as we're talking about africa, was talking about our ab issue as caribbean people's lives in america. and he won't slash actual point and where he got it as the non b san who did not speak to enjoy, you know, the privilege to the benefits and rights. and that's the international system. so to see a pretty is back and western europe by the time as well, you know, to do enough. still another speak quickly enjoyed it. and for me, and this is high view, you know,

the different approaches in order to similar concrete, say, well, as we see in the united me shows, i approached to the general side, you know, one day later and for us. but i think that there's moving yellow was in the soak, you know, and the united initials responding differently as you know. so, so that's what i mean by that races international sister. and i'll be, will say, risk control of your beats by says lawn. be it once one side as being found, your death is not. can i ask you here? where do you think the russians fall within this spectrum of being brings where it says no brings because the one hand we wipe and we for a long time, wanted to believe that we are part of the western civilization. but historically, for many centuries, it's pretty clear and the, the rest, the rest of the west consider that as sort of sending barbarians if not full time barbarians. well like i said, it was the west versus the wrists and,

and im hi by you on hold and look at a book out for me. if you asked me directly. bowen to speak honestly were horrible and look intensely, collin young, it's your power. russia force and are well within that prison off of, of, of, of one of the powerful steed sam that's, that's, that's, that, that's in some ways is equal and isaac, a grocer doesn't have b, o, colonia by d d nafrica. this is all of the air factors that drive unseen whist, since indians, in our friend by russia has always supported the elevation struggle, not only for political reasons, but also for, you know, spiritual and ideological reasons. because it truly believed that the, you know, it, it come from a different understanding of how you deal with diversity. and, yeah, i agree, and that's why i said russia doesn't have that by, did you africa? well, he doesn't mean that russia does not have equivalent out by d. intensified as 3. it said meet its neighbors a story cut. now up,

there is an am asking about this is because it, if i understood your thesis correctly and the, let me know why i was wrong here. you believe that the in inequality of the enter it on bissonnet national system. russ spray marilyn within the un security council and it's we the powers which according to you permit some countries to become rich and powerful and preserved that privilege armed and back off, exploiting others. and i think that i currently describes the western approach to the world over a couple of centuries. but is it equally true about russia and china? because i do believe that these 2 countries have, who are also you and security council members and who used to be to powers. they have a so indifferent approach to how they deal with other nations. big and small. yeah, they do have a different approach, but the to the teacher is lot is the same for the for, for be, you know, countries of less apart that the package actually lives. they could talk about

china, for example, and eat me, use a different life, is by the end of the be and. and if africa as foreign policy is to be controlled or impacted by an or a china, as economy and taking sweet calls in it. then at the end of the be it is about control is about power. alternately, the gain is about power. this is where i am as old toy the lies between black and white, a west and east or not. because to be blurred because i, that's a, that's stable where powerful countries cease color. the call quo. racism doesn't, doesn't county races only because an instrument watching that power so neatly. if you couple, if it's about, if you look at it from a power point of view from the community of pop when of you day and you can begin to use that. they're still in federal gauge, china use that last time. they russia and i cities because these 3 countries,

the united states, russia, china, i, the biggest as pop, are completely close enough. got currently and best way into africa. but professor, if again i, i think it was one of the aimed in liberation heroes who said that power is not given. it's taken. and you may put the on us on the great powers, but it isn't. it also within the recipients of their policy is to, you know, ask for more dignified and warfare treatment. i mean, doesn't really make sense to blame a russia, china with the united states for that matter. if the country is ready to stay in a somewhat passive position, no, i agree with you called kitty. it doesn't make system blended. and that's why i don't do the blend g actually lights. if i want to talk about you urea rushes way, craig, i don't, i don't want to talk about was still be in between russia and, and he was supposed asked me to read is ship an asl. yeah,

of course. that is the snow to use which will be it. and this is why i'm saying that and, and it's, it's, it's, it's a pizzey. so shame that despite africa's and in old fast an oil resources, africa, estie depends on, on, on russia, you know, at a side area and for oil. despite its arable land, agricultural land, ross, the courts in it. it still is still the biggest in ports that will sweep from, from, from, from russia on the craig. this is, this is, this, is this, this on receptacle. so if i forgot, deserves a, put his housing order organize. it says when it's kelly and it'll starting with d and go a little deep harvested sisters that he inherited shall fall, acquittal youngest. if he doesn't see done or put us together, it will not be forced to work on we. it's would love to be herded any kind of pre college of power and her body smartgate will. i'm not saying therefore that it will

not have to sit that far by force. you have to take that bow going nicely was safe for monday, so that you've got andras' bit of the international system. but that unless we have been hon. baker for cancels, heeds, i want to go back to something you wrote. and he said that the in this sir unequal international system in the u answer to counsel at its center. and this system allows powerful countries to break international law. without any consequence. b, it, russia, ukraine, or the united states in iraq see really been in for very long list of other countries. is it really fair? and just to put the russia and the united states on the same world routine here, because russia is not fighting on the other side of the globe for some corporate interest. this is a very direct, very immediate, very visceral struggle for us. and we see that as a struggle for our old independence, not for the ukrainian land, not against the ukrainian people, but against the western efforts to militarize our neighbor and to turn it into

a hostile state against us. is it fair to equip russia and america here? well, am it's, it's school current. it's a matter of firm you know you. if your world trickled in pencil phony, sam didn't arisen with seeing tensile scene and perhaps a young despite a glove wendy united states, as, as you know. and, and defied, eats on national order at a more derucia hot. what am elizabeth comparisons? it's about vital interest. united states hasn't fought on its territory. we are fighting on her, on our border and i, in the territory that historically not only belonged to the, the, the russian le land, but also hosted russian people where that's one way to look at c. m. what, another way to look at it, oscillate tensile, well, put russia in that category. eastwood, russia tedious, syria. ok. and next last was notate direct sam m. o. and one didn't do in

syria. it protected the state structures against the earth, the terrorist, all flawed. did it well in the terrorist onslaught? do you do? wow, do you defy it's ers who he did cancel? who's the finance errors trail i, i, i warn you what i know most people who use indiscriminate violence and i was in syria back in 2012, 2013. and i've seen the corpses of, you know, 5 year old children who were killed because the, you know, of her parents, her sit a religious or ethnic background or because their parents word to the government. and i don't think there is much room for argument here. sure. there were some a civil rights organizations there, but they didn't carry weapons. well, look for me. one month's answer is to set a demo's for dog fights. actually depends all we start with where we're looking at it for. and i also don't at it by looking knox and d e d rule of b y greg being in the sale of africa and which in, in, in,

in many ways. so of course, the webinar group is the private nisha and what has been set off 2000 links medic, russian governments, it. and just yesterday i saw the head of the group and you know, contesting for was dream is i between the russian army and i'd be the self in, in, in, in recovering ed russian ground in, in, in pots of eastern creek. so, so for me and of course i agree with you that and there's on the spanish are traits will close to 90 k. so brush us like russian he in, in you cray or what one could also push back a see that and, and is it, it's, yeah is, is, is russia is, is, is, is, is this war in ukraine really about am and is, is to ensure traits. so rush out all i'm url, shes old letterman put his needful recognition ab at, in an international to stem wait, he wants to get us as big if still influence as,

as the rush as the u. s. s. r e lab during the cold war era. professors again, we have to take a very short break with let's keep that, that last question in mind, and we will return to it just after a few moments stationed. ah huh. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy confrontation, let it be an arms race, his own offence, very dramatic development. oh, i'm going to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very critical. time. time to sit down and talk. lou needs to come to russian

state little narrative. i've stayed on the most landscape div us. mm hm. then i can also sons them up for a week within the 55 we did. okay. so $95.00 must be the one else was about with we will van in the european union the kremlin. yup. machines, the state on russia today, and school r t spoke neck, even our video agency, roughly all bands on youtube and pinterest and we took over 20. did you think it would twist with? mm hm. mm.

welcome back to wells appointment crease is seeking director of the african center for the study of the united states at the university of pretoria professors that can just before their break regarding the issue of what are rushes a lot of importance. motives in rushes incursion, military incursion into your crime, and you suggested that it's not his search for recognition. don't you think that there were plenty of other ways that the was, was ground level. i didn't put enough recognition or of anything i if he actually told the american line, well, i don't think that if he look like the american politics, i don't think that in the president and in nazi will, especially the last one before. but by and had the audacity

okay till i tried the book roshay the i was trying to chill to rush on issues my way. what do you know? one, i but if you look at the american budgetary expenses and the scale of militarism inside, sending weapons, sending trainers, military trainers to, you're putting it's all public records and you know, in the counties and billions trying to defend what us up don't need to. and so trying to encourage and have you create one of the things that we have not talked about, you know, my view about this particular course in terms of looking at where it was the responsible for the career crisis is the wheel of the ukrainian people themselves. right, and the creek who people even did not words the good the lie. and i was told by the president the president that was will by women, the electorate, by over 73 percent will be let or is it not like the lies equals to about it all in

securing you, chris or son only for russia is he shall the way you consider ro shasky story cut and tried critical off off of getting v d e. craig fixing by to the 1700. right. well, wait a 2nd. i'm know that we're all fresh and he's sort of gl record of invading your green. in fact, the ukrainian territory has grown substantially or during solar times. but i also want to add that the mandate of prisons, alaska was in part secured on his promise, not of not only giving autonomy to ukraine. russia was never questioning the sovereignty of ukraine, but he also promised peace with the eastern regions which were shelled for a 7 consecutive years or by, by the ukrainian military. i'm in awe, let's be accurate on the historic for historical front here. mercury. and i'm sending you that it's best in visual both. oh feel cree by russia was,

is 1783. what, what do you to find as invasion then? one you visual is envisioned way you are. next. when you visited courtroom, your forces, untraceable, unmixed, the big needed estates. and if you look at, if he should light back on the best form of derek. couldn't use it, you know, but that's not quite. i'll be, we'll try too big. that's loading point of transfer beat if you, you know, what i've seen is that we must also asked the question of why you cree feels didn't need to seek protection from missile against russia. thus allegedly requesting to switch gears a little bit. i have one, i sort of bring in african experience here as well because separate south africa is no stranger to you, the use of force and violence for political reasons. and i'm sure you're well aware that the, the person who is a justly celebrated as the father of, of your nation nelson mandela,

was once on the years terrorist lists for precisely what we would now recognize as deliberation. struggle. i, i think most people of good will, if not all people with will absolutely despise the use of force, the use of violence for political purposes, but in the world that will leave in the world as we know it today. cool than before we excluded, especially with the self proclaimed leader of this world using force military force so liberally. are there any other ways for the countries to ensure that interest as an ultimate measure? i'm not saying that this has to be an issue of 1st resort, but if push comes to shove, isn't that what south africa and most countries around the world maintained a military force for? yes, absolutely, and that's why i said africa speaking, the position of the roof looking to dialogue and looking around the actually we're solving a problem. in fact,

in trying to see that was saw in, in many african countries stand in the u. s. curative works in march and day eagle, which many scholars are going to see asked, leaning towards russia. and one of the things that i was was jolted e with apple nicholas of africa that the cold war and is, is, is, is the fact that, you know, people seen that as the fall of negation of the you were you african munoz. it'll principal of the evil ability of, of territorial border to, to take receipt as the resource to peaceful means and add to total resolve coffee. and so people have said that african neutrality didn't try to. so some africa state doing that food was in, we all, filed late scene is one principles of, of new tried to teach. but i've been sort of before as a vision of coffee. both of africa has been very strong. in in been seni,

that seats you know before, as a ways to result is completely using what, let's rout agency as, as, which was possible. and i think that that's a very good point and stand on the course the principles of the african union itself. and i'm also senior, right? this conflict as tragic and actually is it may be, it may also for the international system in too much delayed reforms. and in fact, this is an atrocity that you mentioned of the african countries and many other countries that refuse to subject themselves to sometimes very having american push and sometimes outright blackmail by the american officials. isn't that also a sign or a slight change that, you know, other countries in a known superpowers are not demanding something from a quote unquote big guys. but actually recognizing our own importance and the importance of taking a stance and the importance of pursuing that all the interest

d. d. the, like i said, is the silver lining in this conflict in the symbol and civil line is, is for forming the chords and national state where as we'll have it because, you know, it's not, it's not going to sustain assets, it's quarterly. and i, you know, we, melissa, god knows that every country of course has its interest. but when the call, the 900 and any, for example, was shows that the war east interest depended. we are committed in getting we and the kind of philosophy foreign policy philosophy of proposal, that air which, which, which, which is that african foreign policy is beautiful is the connectivity of, of, of all of humanity. so if we go, we talk about these individual national interests. most of us will be actually what i need. it grew my interest, i. what is that interest on every but every, every state is important. if there's any africa with spoken many resources,

i'm most should have a seat in the civil and indeterminate. what are nobody interested is going to be also a big decision making and force mental or at least shows. so government acts international and i think you would agree with me that the formulation of this global agenda also presupposes, you know, they realization of the spirit of the moon philadelphia talking about it presupposes that countries are regardless of their size or power a, treat each other as moral equals, and i've heard that a law dog from african thinkers and african leaders suggesting that for example, the united states needs to change its approach to africa. and it needs to treat africans fairly with dignity as equal partners, rather than somebody who oh, needs to be told what to do or needs to be wasted into serving the american understanding of the bilateral relationship. my question to you as somebody who studies the united states professionally and over time, do you think the years bureaucracy is philosophically ontologically capable of

treating anyone as equal and one dad than me and that they will have to part ways in this very attractive. but ultimately supremacist idea of the shining cd on a hill that have to bestow in slide on all of us the rest of us and enlighten. well m m, look dear, you're in to sher miss changing air right now. and it, you know, one of the things that interest me, india new or africa policy and is the notion of it to seen and dealing with africa, equal partners. that's something that to the some, why does it mean because it's a beautiful phrase, but one doesn't mean in practice. equal partners when be the starting point is, is, is having that freeze. i'm dad at phrase use is, is, is cindy document is his ground for africa to or do you latest these 2 are codes in terms of giving that freeze it, leaving me. so in terms of her,

you know, if i recall glazing africa agency, or in terms of you little more just giving you bought a loan africa to take part in discourse shoals. that it's, i mean, it's interest there determining its future rights at you. you're talking about allowing somebody to even take part in the discussions now they, when following the decisions that i'll follow from them discussion. but simply, you know, having to sit in the table, isn't that a little bit too modest to ask for? when it is void is board, we don't do we as africa have the out as structures the least will actually be useful. many off off of the opportunity at present it. you know, for example, am i rooted piece recently about why it is and put on for africa will studied unitas fees as well. and this is what we're doing our to our sense that we are trying to understand the latest these as in mission and as a society, burgess is quality's book in full time. it's in coastal sheets, canals,

which reclamation icon on the company's called conway shows. he'd africa, what i've seen that we need to repeat kids said does like, might a cause. the exact words knit, sought out and we can develop the template for dealing with the latest isabel can have an africa u. s. policy rather than a u. s. africa policy, or a professor ziegler, this is, this is a great idea, but an o, for example, in russian china m many of such center as they know the united states pretty wealth . but i think the difference between their approach in the african approach is that they not only formulate their portion, but they had tried to stand their ground and defend their interest. and he, another thing dotson will hang that at all when push comes to child when they're interest they involve, they're not ready. i mean, they're rhetorically, they are always ready to treat you as an equal partner. but when it comes to their interest, they hardly ever compromise. my last question to you is, do you think the united states practically is capable of treating any one? any peer? let's say russia, china, the european union, or let's say it, india,

or south africa as a practical, equal as somebody whose interest need to be not only talked about, but respected security, interest, economic interest, human interests, et cetera. well, looked in at a b, b by smiler sat, is that it is capital o between the act, the letter st. is those not even going to say super power does not have the capability. okay? to put is the, it's how, what is shaney given because of new forces, concrete, new, colorful. so insecurity. he went churchy. that is there. we're looking all of at what he let us. this also has his own weaknesses. we being itself, or i'd absolute, he does not pretend any more to be des training. a ballpark develops fit. it recognizes that it needs alex. i'd, let's, he's not going to bump. was the least we by, by, by, by force or threat will force as cities to do before. and for me am is starting for like i said, would be testy. he scored policy towards africa. and i think that is only fair to give them sigh to see how that plays up. if he may yell to from out,

we're able to see down and look at people on the scene turtle community showed us funny promises that i be made to africa. lead us in the western term, the u. s. at sir u. s. africa lead esl me that held in western till you december. we would do it post mortem of all of these. i been outside that was stone wall sally air, but for now defied that there is a busy wolf bed as she's to was recalled, lies in africa, be jesse, for example, as equal partners would see how that rule shall woods to actual ident judge. we have to live in there. i really appreciate your time today with us. thank you. thank you for having me and thank you for watching hope to searing down on the wells apart. ah

ah ah, the stock of up to the what if you just i would ask all sheets and do some stuff toward come up with what you push from which manually would you could up below what he says, not a simple denial for more food, ecologist? yeah, a lot more than enough. when you react well, then you put the salute leading like, you know what i'm actually spoke, i did it when you are a

stick with the missed issue with jenny today we should move you lou do soon as you set up a boy with them here. it's no, it's not rude you, but as little who you can lose this money still to with the clear. you know me, he's a sticker. i can i those now with article it, can you post cookie? bit slow, i'll make them cookie, the loading mutual tissue them yet from facia viciously by the same layers with we oh,

came out together. we were all supposed to go home together. it didn't happen a shot after shot this john deer was asking. where's corey? where's course, you could hear them say d, o a at the scene. so we knew he was go to manage kamani carter, and i'm currently starting a license for a gang related job. i had the 9 years ago, my big lasana. she was also a student who was attending college. his name is corey pittman. very young kids. it seems we're getting involved and renders violence 20 to 30 years ago . but i think there's no question that kitchen cripps from ballet came up here and seated this area. all my friends was either in

prison now forever or day. probably be gotten 7 years with this one. it will have is my number 7 over there in the distance, the bad, the kilometer. and the ha, that is the last stronghold. all the love and hope you gradient home follow god. i wanted to follow the russian paramedics wagner. they advanced further on the lid on both front lines. the strategically important founders from a dog having recently come under russian control. the youngest of the 90 states has created a coalition and it's using ukraine to wage a proxy war against russia. with the old aim of.