you clean so that we don't continue to experience all see the loss of lives from both sides. and the last question, it's in relation to the military exercise in the indian ocean next month by both china and russia, and to host that by south africa. there has been a mixed reaction to that engagement next month with people. some are criticizing their more minutes append to allow that kind of exercise in the midst of all the tension in ukraine or the war in ukraine. from your perspective, what is south africa reaction and also to minister lovegrove? what is your reaction to the criticism that the timing is not collect garbage to go to work, as they say at different conference says,

thank you for your statement. that as for the 1st part of the question that you have, i explained in details, we have a radius poll, can numerous occasions and public. we have expressed our assessments, and i am convinced that there must media in the whole world that are interested in what is happening around a crane, have called acknowledged without a limit, and by yours truly. as soon as the ukrainians side, what shall you? but it was suggested in early march that we start negotiations. we agreed and there were 3 rounds held and bellows. several rounds were organized, gmc via video conference. ready and then in late march, we had

a meeting in as in boy at the suggestion about, talk to your colleagues and in istanbul, ukrainian delegation suggested discipline draft principles for a settlement which we supported. and based on that draft, and in full agreement with the principles of the formulated by a crane, we proposed a draft agreement which formulated the legal groundwork for that sheet. but at that moment, ukraine received a signal from washington, london, brussels, i don't know from where are you that said it is too early for ukraine to talk to the russians. and if the russians agreed, talk slope as it means that their week and they need to push forward

at that moment mister burrell, is the hands of the you. diplomacy of those would be said that ukraine must win on the battlefield. i don't remember any journalists for now taking interest in the prospects of the peace process. asked mister burrell, you see why he pushed for a military solution and not for diplomacy. none of our western colleagues died mister ball rel night and told him to start a bug in the night of the us administration or the you store. but a short around the showed a solution that we showed a peaceful approach. diplomatic approach. they said that it was too early for ukraine to talk, and that to crane must start talks from the position of thought. they said

directly that trash needs to put back into the borders of 991. and they certainly have the opportunity to hear all the statements. and in september last year, so lensky signed an official decree, a binding document that prohibits all ukrainian officials from holding talks with the russians side, effectively band, any kind, any kind of negotiations. so they said is a question of how the training side sees the further development of these events as the russian president said, we have never refused to talk. but those who do refuse need to understand that the longer they do, the longer they say no to sitting at the table,

the harder it will be to find a solution which this is as regards to your 1st question and as to the naval exercises, i don't think i need to comment 3 countries in conduct naval x sizes without without breaking any rules and any norms. i don't think it can evoke a mixed reaction except from our american colleagues. they think that it is only them who can hold various military operations and drills around the world, not only on their naval bases, which are spread around the well, but in any location. so now they're actively conducting naval exercises as part of the so called indo pacific strategies around china. and in the south china sea in the taiwan strait. and nobody seems to have any sort

of mixing the reaction about this. at least i never hear the media report for the future and be concerned about what the united states is doing over 9000 miles away from his shores. but our activities are completely transparent. what we're doing with our south african chinese partners is completely transparent . we provided all the necessary information and of course, you said there is a mixed reaction with the representatives of the white house. when faced with a question at a briefing, there were several russian delegations in nicaragua, and there was a question put to washington, what their attitude is, to that trip to that visit. and they answered in a very direct manner. they said that russia's relations with nicaragua concerning

so that is how they react. if someone tries to use up international relations and openly say that you got to states must not have any competitors that russia is declared. not yet someone who must not take part in this activity when they seriously say that rush is the main threat and that chinese long term threat that needs to be addressed. it's a matter of mentality, the mentality which falls outside the borders of the common ideas of international law. and as you know, the united states and the european satellites are pushing for a new international

order based on rules. the so called rules based order. but no one, no one explained to me. i asked many times, but never once have i heard a satisfactory explanation of that. what that means. and that is a problem because it impinges on the sovereign of the sovereignty of states, which is a fundamental un charter principle. we don't want to have any sort of confrontation, we just stand for every country having its own rights in the international system. as provided for by the un charter. it is this system based on equality between states and not dictatorship, based on consensus and not imposing one decisions upon others that we are developing our relations at bricks and other international print platforms

show as placebo zone show up both li, up so daily the, the role of service, but it was so conflict them is that i see i think we discuss the issue with the next issue of ukraine. we talked to mr. crane the minister lovegrove and we stand for the paramedic solutions and talks especially at the when desires and then others matters. will ensue from that with respect to the military exercise,

which has had the commentary you're referred to. you will recall my remarks a few months ago where i indicated that one of the things we as africans need to resist is this impulse of wanting to direct a double standard form of international conduct toward us. that what i do is ok for me. but you cannot do it because you are developing country or you africa, that is an abuse of international practice, or countries combat military exercises with friends worldwide. so there should be no compulsion on any country that it should conduct them with in the other part. and it's part of a natural course of relations between countries. so i think we need to explain this to the public, may be as broad costa, you could develop a list of the military exercises that they have been just in the last year,

up to the ones planned by china, russia and south africa. and i let our community to the fact that this is just a natural set of exercises that occurred between countries that have such relationships. and we should not deny any country the right to participate in such tylic analisia and the question to both the ministers the question about the nomics and the how is the economic relationship is built into in our countries when there is no colonial political between our

question ministers, a question about economy. how are our country is cooperating when the west is actively pursuing a new colonial pull that policy against her african countries? we've heard that the years have changed, but the mentality of the united states is still the same. how does that impact our bilateral projects because it has never disappeared? well, i will start. president putin has characterized the situation on the world and said indeed that to new colonial policies being reborn or rather just remains. it never went away. and so what is now being done with regard to the russian federation is an attempt to pursue a new colonial policy in relation to,

to our country as well. and we constantly see the united states imposing illegitimate sanctions. now they're trying to cause trouble for china as well, and they're threatening everyone. and the state department officials have repeatedly said over recent years, even before the special minutes, reparation that any big country at india or turkey or egypt must think again before dipping, dipping its ties. with russia, it's an obvious attempt to impose a dictatorship and international relations. it's a complete breach of diplomatic and even human ethics. are relations with the south africa and com pass, responding to these legitimate sanctions. as ms. pandora said,

it's the reflection of the mentality where one side can do whatever at once and the other side is subject to restrictions. but live goes on. we have mutual interests. both our governments and our economies are cooperating with our authorities and our company's corporate in energy and natural resources. and i have already mentioned nuclear projects and we can be cooperating very beneficially in diesel exploration of space building infrastructure and smart cities. as pandora has mentioned, that many times said that the russian experience may prove valuable for south africa. all of this, of course, is highly relevant for building supply chains. and we're now working on new

tools, which will not depend on the capricious behavior of our western colleagues and on their arbitrary decisions. this is all quite real and we are working with our colleagues that were willing to cooperate on an honest basis. and who do not want to be subjected to arbitrary restrictions and to the abuse of globalist mechanisms and framework, which she can meet national trade relations. we have had the decline in the coven iraq. we'd like to get back to the pre cove at levels and do even more. so this is an area of great importance relations between countries. been successful in many sectors. and ho,

we have seen a certain downturn during the coven time. and we would like to go back to the pre coat with levels of course to develop it further. that's a very important scenario for us. so i would like to emphasize that the new colonial attitude that she know about is force very visible in economy and finance. first of all and especially as relates the bretton woods organizations, they are constantly originally they are constantly working to include the assignment. by the way, no one does need the needs of the poorest countries and when need to think together to find a way to increase that focus on our interests and our

needs them to organize a just and he equal and equitable trade system. so as soon as these organizations impose or their rules weeks, see that the interests of the poorest countries are harmed and as bricks countries, we need to consider ways to provide radical change in blue eye. so that's the world bank it and shore. and as my look, the world bank changes, that approach should to help developing countries and you guys get the better. oh,

003 . 0, with swimming pool, last year, hopefully, almost 11 months ago, the de russia invaded you train your department issued the statement calling on russia took for its withdraw. its military from ukraine immediately in line with you in charge, which enjoins all member states to settle international disputes. peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered south africa emphasizes respect for the sovereignty and territorial integrity of states. you said yes, did you repeat that call and you're meeting with lever of today? and if so, what response and if not, why not? and if not, what? if not, what is your essential message to him about how to in the school, if not the withdrawal of russia from you think you would be if you would

make a great prosecutor on his or attack this civilian infrastructure for this one. there's no school for food, no gradient. she doesn't the, please to me just we never strike civilian infrastructure. and there are many, many ways to confirm that everything that we see currently happening, where the civilian infrastructure being destroyed is due to the criminal actions by the key of regime which has made the deliberate steps of placing it's heavy artillery and defense systems in residential areas. and the former advisor to the president of

ukraine, mr. aristo, which i think when the but the recent events in the near proper trask transpired, which he honestly said that it is the work of a ukrainian anti missile system, which was placed in the residential area. and which shot down for a project tile, a missile launched by russia. if the country wants to abide by the international humanitarian law, it does not do things like that. so when we are accused of deliberate, deliberate destruction of civilian infrastructure. ready the western media, we will always use every such case

with it to launch a discussion was a discussion of how russia is bad. i don't remember the daily mirror or any other media outlet where it would be concerned with lee what was happening since at 2014 which in the southeast of ukraine. and it would be really interesting to see what their response was to the tragic events. ready in odessa, in the a trade union house where people are burnt alive, and those who jumped out of the windows was shot by the people who stood around the

around the building. that was a real tragedy. and the crime of those people wear that the food i refused to recognize that the results of the cool a tough but i remember the west thing really concerned where the the shelling of me please. i don't remember the west being concerned about the shilling of the dawn best for recognizing other cool day time. and then the minced agreements were signed and that was before the right to speak, the russian language and the right and the right to consultations so that their voice be heard. this is what they were approved by the united nations security council. and those men's agreements were

signed by several parties, which included the former president portion coo and former french president, to land and angela merkel. but afterwards, in all the other parties was admitted that the only sign those agreements to win some time to arm ukraine to pump ukraine full of weapons. and the reason they did that was to project a threatening, as the russian federation that is obvious. and the threat was russians which let me remind you, it was right at our borders. our american colleagues decided that you, this lobby hourly be opposed to a threat to the united states, but they will very far from their borders. and imagine that yugoslavia banned the

english language. how would they respond? however, we can also imagine how france would behave if belgium found the french language or how sweden behaved if finland bands, the swedish language, but in ukraine, it is deemed normal. and the president portion cohen president lensky was they all ran with a peaceful slogans. but after they were elected, they turned into war presidents into russia, phobic, presidents, they band education and russian. they banned russian speaking media including ukrainian media, which have a russian edition, as it was they have laws which even banned every day. speaking of everyday speaking

of russian books by russian, classical writers abandoned any sorts of culture being banned and ousted. and that is now supported by the west. just as the west support you nazi marches with swastikas, with s. s. insignia where the, the various symbols of military units of them, of nazi germany, which have been bound to since and those. and it's not even hybrid war anymore. it's almost actual war, waged by the west against russia, which it has prepared for for a long time. aiming to destroy everything russian lead language or culture. everything which had existed in ukraine for centuries,

prohibiting people from speaking their native language and zelinski speaking at dave arts and at other events seems to be he publicly said in september or october 2021 before the military operation was launched. when asked, what is his attitude to the people in the dawn best as he says, he said, well, there are people and there are some species. and then lensky, the main democrat of europe, said if some one in ukraine feels any sort of affinity to russian culture or to the russian world, then it would be better for their children and for their grandchildren. that they just get out and go to russia from that issue. if someone said something like that,

about the french speaking people in belgium or english speaking people in ireland or in scotland, we could imagine a hypothetical nationalist situation like that. what would, what would it be? but no one seems to speak about this only all the see this on the invasion as they say. but the fact that a not in increasingly not 3, she was operating and key of and the agreements approved by the un security council were thrown away nothing, nothing of that was discussed. and when we said that we demand as a better security guarantees. and the autumn of 2021. we know nobody listened to us just as no one listened to us. when we spoke about the european security treaty,

i hope you didn't fall asleep. did something happen? okay. and more so it was more liberal. it is possible. ready is to pull out an isolated episode from any country's history and make sure that i make a career with you and to provide a narrative that is beneficial to your country's foreign policy goals. but we think that any honest researcher is clear about what has happened in ukraine. i think it just yet don't wish to at the bull or just the way i really am in though i think it was a very timely to hear. this statement would not be where we are

about the conflict because you can be study with this repeated denial statement, which i made in february of 2022, which would be naive. young will stand. and i don't think i will repeat my statement to mister love and i think there is no need for that. and now, final question. from roosevelt corridor rush. today, i have a lumina in. yes. good is for both foreign ministers here. recently the us treasury secretary said that a rush is trying to weapon eyes food and that putin's actions are actually causing a drag on the african economy in general. so i'd like to hear the response that

both of you have for that. but i, i'd also like to ask a couple other questions to specifically to minister surgery labrons. i want to understand these naval joint navel drills that were mentioned earlier. do you see this as a sort of foreshadowing of further military cooperation between bricks countries. and there's also another question i'm going to ask on behalf of sputnik and has to do with the fact that the united states has been pressuring african countries that even dare to potentially have some sort of good relationship with russia. and do you think it's okay for that to be done? and also what can russia do to help african countries that are trying to combat that sort of pressure from the united states? those a little bit of you've mentioned so many thanks.