for such actions the binding mcclain is religious. scripture is something which is absolutely unacceptable which is in human. it is something which is there really sort of burning off. i mean scripture is not the solution. and the, i believe the one person who actually burn the whole is one he might have actually been unhappy with some parameters of his land with some policy logan's mom, which is really common, which is happening everywhere and maybe with some muslims eat. well, that was the one that one might be displeased, but this is not the be i think of, you know, discussion is the best will. so i also condemned on, you know, anyone who'll isabel, meaning most them who actually has a voice of lisa and sanity will be critical of the warning all for this

a copy of the holy crap. that's all for now with this amazing to see people share, right. because as me we talk about being strong not. i mean everybody wants to be strong man, but you know, we might be physically strong, but you know, are we emotionally weak? my son got incarcerated here and i learned my biggest fear was and he goes back into what he had on the board about memory. one of my sons, grey phrases chose policy. and he said,

your son used to say he was she come to prison just so he can be with you. in that moment i said, this is what you've left your child in this woman and your family to to do. they say, you said if you are thinking you is dead, you never too old to find that peace, which will children which yourself. mm hm. this prison is me into more like always call a blank canvas and a beautiful landscape. mm. i think that there are a lot of things that we can accomplish here. if you give an opportunity. mm.

ah, everybody's watching everything they do. everywhere they go everywhere they gather . they have to really, really, really be above board to make this happen. they have to worry about be a put in the whole they have to worry about being moved to another prison depending on how hard a push they don't wanna be too vocal. because they don't want to be signal out as a security risk because they're being vocal about something that they want to learn . they can move them at any time. they could be take, you know, just rolled up and moved to another facility at any time for any reason, not to knock and say, or do about it. mm. i'm pretty sure they still, doubtless, all the way up to this point. but you can't argue with our results. that's the thing that you can't argue. cameras in every classroom. bye. so we got a classroom camera start coming up in the exam because it was like, okay,

well we got to see exactly what's happening, but as good. not only put a camera here, you can come and sit in our classroom when you learn to with charity, you think capacity tooth, ones, intelligence without the guidance of another. what is conveying is that no one, not even in one, our government can impede enlightenment of the public. okay. okay. i thought it was about it when the difficult read pull. i thought it was a career. that's what i dress up for from the moment. i'm not sure if i'm right or wrong, but this is my life. and so, and it's not about right or wrong, it's about interpretation. no one can say, if your interpretation is wrong, we don't have a manual. can't hear to be able to ask them. what did you mean by this? and you have english scholars literary scholars will try to explain to you what

somebody live 20300 years ago. literally meant when they don't know, what am i gathering from this? and at the end of the day, that's all that really matters is what you're gathering, right? because there's a lot of people here who are under the idea that we are kind of exceeded our boundaries as prisoners and somebody is lying to you. if somebody is in the i always been so scared about how i looked on the death of cory, how him being a young college kid and me being just, you know, some move hoodlum from tacoma, how anybody would be able to kind of see the person that i've become, or my manager that's something that's always been a fear of mine. nobody was really ever give me a chance. the

washington state does not have will wake up a role in the early ninety's. what it replaced parole with was determinant sense. in other words, i'm going to send you to a period of time and it cannot be reduced, doesn't matter what you do in prison. that's your sense. washington has started to figure out that system is not very jobs that doesn't work. and so they've started to bring parole back, actually brought girl back for sex offences. and the other group is juvenile is kemati, had committed the crime. $61.00 days earlier, each 2 months passed his 18th birthday. he would have been in juvenile and he'd be eligible for parole today. problem with punishment. the problem with setting a life without parole sentence. for somebody who was 18 years old at the time in

the crime is you don't know who he's going to be 20 years. ah, it was never really something that i was intending to have while i just got curious . i because there was a lot of people who are actually going home to cleanse. the 1st thing i did is i've kind of started writing letters to some attorneys about what was the possibility. but then a week, you know, he sent me a letter and told me to call he said that doing my clinic, it would be something that he will be willing to do. today we filed a clemency petition with the washington state clemency board. its a formal request asking for a commutation of commodities sent, asking the governor to change his life sentence to essentially credit for time sir, to let him go.

the different family members that have been to prison and seen him even some went and spoke with him. different people would tell me he's changing. he's trying to be a better person, but their plan wasn't ready to accept then. ah, i had thought about reaching out to him. i start to write them and then i throw it away. i did that probably, maybe 6 or 7 times. and then i just said, okay, forget it. ah, probably 6 months after that, kimani send me a message. i read it right a couple times over and over. i let my family members read it. my grandmother, she raised me from the time i was 6 months old and she always instilled in

as a spirit of forgiveness. and he had asked me for my forgiveness in his measures that he said to me. and so i told him i said, ah, i forgave you a long time ago, i didn't, i'm not going to forget what happened. and so, but i forgave you. as i understand the challenges you may have had growing up and i'm not excusing her behavior. but i forgive, you said not only am i for giving you for what you did. i have to forgive you to allow myself to lavon and to heal. ooh, while he was in prison, his daughter was murdered. she was 3 and a half his oh,

when she was murdered, the lady that beat my granddaughter to death. i forgiven her. she didn't have the tools to be a mother. she grew up in such a violent atmosphere and was in a gang when she was 11. and so when she had my grand daughter, she wasn't capable of showing love art. she didn't have, she didn't know how. and so in an angry drug, addicted rage, she beat my granddaughter to death. and i'll always miss in ira and i would be 23 years old now that i want her to have a 2nd chance, you know? because i feel like she never had a chance. i remember when i was in olympia fighting for this bill. i mean, i was a mother trying to fight for her son in time for people to get out and carroll. but all these victims came in the 2nd year, and i thought, you know, well after the victims who you know, and i thought, you know, well, maybe next time we go to fight for this bill. a be

a victim supporting the bill where they go up and say, i'm a victim and i am against this bill. i'm going to be, i'm a victim and i'm for this bill. now, we are in this dichotomous, either victim or you're a perpetrator. it's not true. victims are perpetrators, perpetrators of victims. and we have to get to a place where we understand we're all victims of the sister. i've had a son who was murdered and i have a family that had different ideas about what justice meant and what they wanted to come out of that process. and i think that had, i not had the experience that i've had it with the black prisons caucus over 20 years. ringback i may or may not have had the same feeling about that, but i was able to immediately forgive. it requires that we look historically we, we contextualize what has happened so that it's not just, i did something to you or you did something to me. there's other environmental things that are pushing our behavior,

impacting our behavior to each of us has the capacity, the unfortunate capacity to do terrible things. if the wrong set of circumstances are presented, we need to get to a place in this country where people kind of tone for their actions and where handed forgiveness can be extended. the prisons are not institutions that detail. the good things that happen in prison. that every once in a while, prison official recognizes that an individual has accomplish something that deserves being talked about in commodities case. a prison official told me that commodity had done more in terms of race relations in prison. and

anybody who had ever worked at that prison, that included professional staff. ah, we submitted our petition with a great deal of hope because we felt that commodity had satisfied somewhat vague standard of showing extraordinary circumstances. merit team a change in his sentence. i think that is more about them being able to, to the commodity that i've become and not the commodity that i watch. and so i think that they deny me as because they haven't got past that point me a call. you will not be charged for this call. this call is from an inmate at day correction center. what's called will be recorded and monitored. if you wish to block anything because of this nature dial 7. now, to accept this call, press 5. now to decline this call. hey,

thank you. the oh, hoarding to french president you menu well mcgraw, the company must decide whether wants to be free or basil of china or the united states. but crown has never been known to be an original thinker. however, on this point he is obviously right. the real question is whether it's europe still has the power to decide it's fate at all. when i was showing wrong, when i just don't hold any world to shape out disdain. because the african and engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground.

oh, i don't mean right now no changes. i do not. i don't know for wash myself in prison. i made it worse. marcy, i don't want to lose faith. i want to continue more along what you door because you're helping the next person get out of jail and katrina, stay out of jo to be a bell. her father saw brother personal society ah . global shadow only you lock the hardware,

which of my interest is in people like commodity who've worked on rehabilitation and who've been told by the system, you will never get out. it does not matter what you do in prison. it will make no difference in terms of where you die. i want to be able to say yes, it will. because i believe that somebody like commodity makes our community a better community. ah, this is that they're all on the same just in different stages of right so. so this only works yes. so that one's really, really right. and there are several that turned proposal just different variety. i was released in june. i was at work release until november 5th.

during that time i worked with the school and now i am still on monetary community. gusty and i live with my family. i'm just trying to, ah, your down move free will is it's all free or is not equitable. so if you have all the resources to have 5 options open to you and i have the resources to have to open to me. how free am i to really choose? and as long as society davies up opportunity and resources where a certain kind of person has 5 and another kind as to, for nothing except for superficial characteristics that are outside of an individual's control. it will be society's fault that prisons are fool

society, the state, the government institutions, all these words that we're, that are big an amorphous that, that we're trying to, trying to make in this concrete thing that has power over us is us. and we are complicit in our own captivity as long as we don't know that they are us with how would you say about this? we're, why are we get about justice, right? what is justice? i'm with

what come to mind when we hear the word justice with anything more on call room with her. okay. was o corruption, co roma prison for a friend operation with i don't wanna veil but you guys are being a little bit negative right? because justice is related to all the bad either has has happened to was right. so yeah, of course we can we go with the negative, right? because of all of these there. i mean, go room. well, been in a corner,

most of us have negative experiences when it comes to just do a justice system. yeah. ready okay, so, so let me, let me make kind of rephrase that. when i, when i think up just is i think done this classroom by year and, and in teach my in general with all the class is doing. if, if, if door nature, justice i, at some point in life there was something that was missing from marcell opportunity that we never had. right? so by i was gonna teaching the chairs, somebody knew something that can empower us. i didn't do any church just. mm hm. jesse says the penalty or reward for one's actions as i pity or reward because justice can be serving a good way or so. i just try to make sure that everything that i do understand is wrong, eventually come back on me some shape or form. and that to me is chest is the good things that i do. we've actually come back to me in a go and,

and bad things. i do actually come back to me in a bad way. it's about integrity for me or so i just think that justice is always watching justice is it is in a thing dislike. you know, if you, if you break the laws of the land, you'll be locked up. that's a small part of justice. but just as is even bigger than that, just as she control to the things that you don't want, nobody else is watch. an awesome justice has to be individualized. justice has to ask, how is the community harms and how can we make it better? and what role should this individual have in making that community better? yes, that's a tough one. i'm not certain knowledge, no injustices. justice. i'm not sure if i thought ever thought about that much just to our part in the system and

then the next part had to do their part the the lawyers on both sides in the judges . but i would still feel good about the bar. i did a this is matt about a prison education program and to be very clear, it is not about the department of corrections at all. they just geographically happened to be oppressed there. they could be oppressed anywhere else in the community. ah, it's a trip because we got some class issues going on. there are many of us who do not believe that people are in prison, could have the answers to our problems. ah, we do not believe that the people sleeping under the bridge can have the answers to their reality. ah,

because we have people with ph. d and master's degrees, who then have been certified to do that work. and they have been doing it over and over and over and over and over again. i'm in a, in a system where we've had a 10 year plan that is now turned into a 20 year plan. they just change a name and it's gang. those brothers, no gang. so for all the classes that we offer to some, we can't wait just for people in prison. aaron's children have the solutions to our problems. and what we will do it 10 years. if we don't attend to this, we'll be visiting some mom. i will put that on your babies. but it's really the truth. don't think it's not true blue because they got the deal. see the feel t. the bed were the chechen center, the juvenile system, everybody's in the business. ah,

and then wait for the education system to fail. our babies, so that they go in there. mm. that i don't want to blame deal. see, because it took a whole lot of institutions to get them there. we failed. we fail them in spite of that they've got the flu. aah! them the spirit that we did not kill me . the me. ah, that that spirit that the genocide medicaid,

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shallows. a a pretence need to resist. is this impulse of wanting to direct a double standard form of international contact toward us as independence addresses relations with russia, a corporation beyond western influence? i'll sending time see great, lose your international status. that's the choice. paula doesn't give them germany in berlin. labels are given you ok on the rear port of it for you for a security.