ah yes, amazing to see people share, right. because as men we talk about being strong unami, everybody wants to be strong man, but you know, we might be physically strong but you know, are we emotionally weak? my son got incarcerated here and i learned my biggest fear was and he goes back into what he had on the board about memory. mama says gray phrase is charles policy. and he said, your son used to say he wish you could come to prison just so he could be with you . in that moment i

said, this is what you've left your child and this woman and your family to, to do. they say, you said if you are thinking you is dead, you never too old to find that peace, which your children, which yourself. mm hm. this prison is me into more like always call a blank canvas and a beautiful landscape. mm. i think that there are a lot of things that we can accomplish here. if give an opportunity. mm. ah, everybody's watching everything they do. everywhere they go everywhere they gather

. they have to really, really, really be above board to make this happen. they have to worry about be a put in the whole they have to worry about being moved to another prison depending on how hard they pushed. they don't wanna be too vocal because they don't want to be signaled out as a security risk because they're being vocal about something that they want to learn . they can move them at any time. they could be take, you know, just rolled up and moved to another facility at any time for any reason. there's nothing i can say or do about it. mm. i'm pretty sure they still, doubtless, all the way up to this point. but you can't argue with our results. that's the thing that you can argue. cameras in every classroom, i sort of, we got a classroom camera are coming up with them because it was like, okay, well we got to see exactly what's happening, but as good. not only put a camera in here, you can come and sit in our classroom and you can learn to with

maturity, event capacity, tooth ones, intelligence. without the guidance of another. well, cat is conveyed is that no one, not even a monarch for making impede enlightenment of the public eye. okay. okay. um i thought it was, i thought it was difficult read pull. i thought it was there, korea. i mean, that's what i graph of from it. you know, i'm not enough. i'm right or wrong. this is my so, and it's not about right or wrong. it's about interpretation. no one can say of your interpretation is one. we don't have a manual can here to be able to ask them, what did you mean by this? and you have english scholars literary scholars will try to explain to you what somebody live 20300 years ago. literally meant when they don't know, what am i gathering from this and at the end of the day,

that's all that really matters is what you're gathering, right? because a lot of people here who are under that when you are kind of exceeded our boundaries as prisoners and somebody is lying to you. if somebody is a guy, i've always been so scared about how i've looked on people the death of corey, how him being a young college kid and me being just, you know, some hoodlum from tacoma, how anybody would be able to kind of see the person that i've become, or my manager has something that's always been a fear of mine. nobody was really ever give me a chance. ah, washington state does not have pool waiting for role in the early

ninety's. what it replaced parole with was determinant senses. in other words, i'm going to send you to a period of time and it cannot be reduced, doesn't matter what you do in prison. that's your sense. washington has started to figure out that system is not very jobs, but it doesn't work. and so they've started to bring parole back, actually brought girl back for sex offences, and the other group is juvenile. if kemati had committed the crime, $61.00 days earlier, 2 months passed his 18th birthday. he would have been in juvenile and he'd be eligible for parole today. problem with punishment. the problem with setting a life without parole sentence. for somebody who was 18 years old at the time in the crime, you don't know who he's going to be 20 years. ah,

it was never really something that i was intending to have while i got curious i because there was a lot of people who actually going home to crunch. the 1st thing i did is i've kind of started writing letters to some attorneys about what was the possibility. but then a week, you know, he sent me a letter and told me to call. he said that doing my clinic, it will be something that he will be willing to do. ready today we filed a clemency petition with the washington state clemency board. its a formal request asking for a commutation of commodity sense, asking the governor to change his life sentence to essentially credit for time served to let him go. the

different family members that have been to prison and seen him even some went and spoke with him. different people will tell me he's changing. he's trying to be a better person at that point where he wasn't ready to accept then, ah, i had thought about reaching out to him. i start to write them and then i throw it away. i did that probably, maybe 6 or 7 times. and then i just said, okay, forget it. ah, probably 6 months after that, kimani send me a message. i read it. i read a couple times over and over. i let my family members read it. my grandmother, she raised me from the time i was 6 months old and she always instilled in as a spirit of forgiveness. and he had asked me for my forgiveness in his

message that he said to me. and so i told him i said, ah, i forgave you a long time ago, i didn't, i'm not gonna forget what happened at the but i forgave you. as i understand the challenges you may have had growing up and i'm not excusing her behavior. but i forgive, you said not only am i forgiving you for what you did. i have to forgive you to allow myself to lavon and to heal. ooh, while he was in prison, his daughter was murdered. she was 3 and a half his oh, when she was murdered, the lady that beat my granddaughter to death. i forgiven her. she didn't have the

tools to be a mother. she grew up in such a violent atmosphere and was in a gang when she was in lavin. and so when she had my grand daughter, she wasn't capable of showing love art. she didn't have, she didn't know how. and so in an angry drug, addicted rage, she beat my granddaughter to death and i'll always miss the naya. and i would be 23 years old now that i want her to have a 2nd chance, you know? because i feel like she never had a chance. i remember when i was in olympia fighting for this bill. i mean, i was a mother trying to fight for her son in time for people to get out and carouse. but all these victims came in a 2nd and i thought, you know what, i've been victims who, you know, and i thought, you know what? maybe next time we go to fight for this bill, a be a victim supporting the bill. well, they go up and say, i'm a victim and i am against this bill. i'm going to be, i'm a victim and i'm for this bill. now,

we are in this dichotomous, either victim or you're a perpetrator. it's not true. victims are perpetrators, perpetrators of victims. and we have to get to a place where we understand we're all victims of the sister. i've had a son who was murdered and i have a family that had different ideas about what justice meant and what they wanted to come out of that process. and i think that had, i not had the experience that i've had it with the black christmas caucus over 20 years. i may or may not have had the same feeling about that, but i was able to immediately forgive. it requires that we look historically we, we contextualize what is happening so that it's not just, i did something to you or you did something to me. there's other environmental things that are pushing our behavior, impacting our behavior to each of us has the capacity,

the unfortunate capacity to do terrible things. if the wrong set of circumstances are presented, we need to get to a place in this country where people can tell him for their actions. and where handed forgiveness can be extended. the prisons are not institutions that detail. the good things that happen in prison. that every once in a while, prison official recognizes that an individual has accomplish something that deserves being talked about in commodities case. a prison official told me that commodity had done more in terms of race relations in prison. and anybody who had ever worked at that prison, that included professional staff. ah,

we submitted our petition with a great deal of hope because we felt that commodity had satisfied somewhat vague standard of showing extraordinary circumstances. merit team a change in his sense. i think that is more about them being able to, to come on and become and not the community that i was. and so i think that they deny me as because they haven't got past that point me. he has a call. he will not be charged for this call. this call is from an inmate at a correction center. what's called will be recorded and monitored. if he was to block anything because of this nature dial 7. now, to accept this call, press 5. now to decline this call. hey, thank you. i'm willing it a so booty toya no cranium. t coyer shooting at her id. she ship,

dr. lien that ship for a control in particular bought. so we ship shield that needs to be at the mo, the priority system really being yet did not sing the anthem, missy leah with insurance. actually it's a little news, but i live a crazy start to lose too modern date my subway. but just dory. yes or no it's i live she elise, get us, but we ship it with a gift or should look like, you know, what of them. i need a you paying squirrels with that for a one. they each the one that or where are you familiar with global i'm saying years about i few the college. busy these people out here for a few quick to take, go, preacher,

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oh, no, no, no changes. i do not wanna prison or wash myself in prison in. ah matter worse, marcia. i don't want to lose faith. i want to tear more along. what you dorn, because you're helping the next person get out of jail and continue to stay out of jo to be about her father saw brother personal society ah, the global shadow only you lot of my interest is in people like commodity who worked on rehabilitation and who've been told by the system, you will never get out. it does not matter what you do in prison. it will make no

difference in terms of where you die. i want to be able to say yes, it will. because i believe that somebody like commodity makes our community a better community. ah, this is that they're all on the same dis in different stages of right so, so this one that was yes for that one's really, really. right. and there are some that turn proposal just different varieties i was released in june. i was at work release until november 5th. during that time i worked went to school and now i am still on monetary community, gusty and i live with my family. i'm just trying to,

ah, figured out ah, free will is it's all free or is not equitable. so if you have all the resources to have 5 options open to you and i have the resources they have to open to me. how free am i to really choose? and as long as society debbie's up opportunity and resources, where a certain kind of person has 5 and another kind as to, for nothing except for superficial characteristics that are outside of an individual's control. it will be society's fault that prisons are fool society, the state, the government, institutions, all these words that we use that are big, an amorphous that,

that we're trying to trying to make this concrete thing that has power over us is us. and we are complicit in our own captivity as long as we don't know that they are us with ours. you see about the war. why are we get about justice? right? what is justice? i'm with what comes to mind when we hear the word justice person with anything more on call room

with her. okay. was oh corruption, co roma prison for brandon operation. oh in i don't wanna fail but you guys are being a little bit negative right. because justice is related to all the bad the there has has happened was right. so yeah, of course we can't, we go with the negative, right? because of all of these there. i mean, go room. well, been in a corner, most of us have negative experiences when it comes to just do a justice system. yeah. okay. so, so let me, let me make gonna rephrase that. when i, when i think up, just as i seemed gone these pleasant by year and in theory by, in general with all the classes. if the one, if the, if the one,

the church justice i, because at some point in life there was something that was missing from marcell, dalbert dooley, that we never had. right? so by i was gonna pitching the chair, is something new, something that can empower us, i think is new and the church does. mm hm . jesse says the penalty or reward for one's actions. i say penalty or reward because justice can be serving a good way or so. i just want to make sure that everything that i do understand is wrong, eventually come back on me as some shape or form. and that to me is just this. the good things that i do, we've actually come back to me in a go and of bad things. i do actually come back to me in a bad way. it's about integrity for me or so i just think that justice is always watching just this. is it is in a thing dislike, you know, if you, if you break the laws of the land, you'll be locked up. that's

a small part of justice. blake justice is even bigger than that. justice should control the things that you're doing when nobody else is watching. awesome. justice has to be individualized. justice has to ask, how is the community harms and how can we make it better? and what role should this individual have in making that community better? it's just, that's a tough one. i'm not certain knowledge. we know what justices justice . i'm not sure if i ever thought about that much just through our part in the system and in the next part, how to do their part the the lawyers on both sides and the judges. but i was still so good about the bar. i did a this is not

about a prison education program and to be very clear, it is not about the department of corrections at all. they just geographically happened to be oppressed there. they could be oppressed anywhere else in the community. ah, it's a trip because we've got some class issues going on. there are many of us who do not believe that people are in prison, could have the answers to our problems. ah, we do not believe that the people sleeping under the bridge can have the answers to their reality. ah, because we have people with ph. d and master's degrees, who then have been certified to do that work. and they have been doing it over and over and over and over and over again. i'm in a system where we've had a 10 year plan that is now turned into a 20 year plan. they just change

a name and his gang, those brothers, no gang, of all the classes that we offer to some, we can't wait just for people in prison. aaron's children have the solution to our problem and what we will do it 10 years. if we don't attend to this, we'll be visiting some that, well, i will put that on your babies. but it's really the truth. don't think it's not true blue because i got the deal. see the deal. t, the bed were the chechen santa, the juvenile system. everybody's in the business. ah, and then wait for the education system to fail. our babies so that they go in there . mm. want to blame d. c because it took a whole lot of institutions to get them there. we fail,

we fail them in spite of that, they've got the i spirit that we did not kill me . the me i that, that spirit that the genocide, that a kid, the genocide of people in macchio. ah

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she knew she coming to invest in russia and gush cheap and she bows, affordable and secure from the stable, which has been not the case. it is a will, that is no longer there. the one that goes by campus and shouldn't grow. this is super stella fossil as the muslim of ship was to propose a new deal and me, when you bought used guns for wondered and could you prove this coast collision, but leave him a little food you're proving who your why did you decide on such as your sanction country or section the person because you want to change the behavior of this government was 1st them why that hasn't happened a sanctions hasn't functioned oh,

when i was showing wrong, when i'll just don't hold any you want to see how did they become the advocate, an engagement equals betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. blue children at st and residential schools suffered nightmarish levels of abuse, torture and child raid. and yet the office of the attorney general suppressed thousands of pages of police and evidence that identified the perpetrators in the school. i was electrocuted twice. i was only 7 years or 1st.