so the 2 topics and the in that regard to do to the several days on the, on the training front and several and russian successes, we can say we see that the brush on serbia who basically it's, it's like a mirror perspective by looking at 11 problem, you see the reflections on the other and then the other way around. that's all for now. be sure to check out our t v dot com for all the latest breaking news and updates. we'll see you right back here at the top of the hour. ah, with

one welcome to was a part united we stand divide it me fall least if those 1st articulated by a so has been central to the evolution of the western world view. having been involved in context as diverse as the bible sermons and politicians species and. * while the west still sides unity as the backdrop of its international policy, brazil, russia, india, china, and south africa has started to explore a different approach to unity. the one that does not require the sameness of values or uniformity of action down there will be reunited through divisions or to discuss that i'm not joined from pretoria by maker. the key, so could buy a research follow at institute for african thought and conversation. mr. combine is

a great to talk to you. thank you very much for your time. and if i do have a dial associated with your needs, and i'm sure that expands your expertise and that's why this conversation will be even more substantive. now. 9 i know that the both of these escalations you explore is your academic interest in breaks. and as i suggested in my introduction, the countries that make on this group as well as those that are interested in joining it has very different national identities. they have different forms of governance, they have different value systems. and yet somehow this group keeps arising in prominence. despite all those differences, divisions, distinctions. what have you, given breaks, lack of insistence on unity. what keeps it together?

there's a problem not in there. what in the governance and financial like, you know, a, a, a significantly influential your cell phones and they're all each, each one of them in 2 days, they know then may be how much you're on the international corporation. and so not so much an issue at this time, but if we

can't really, it's more potential connective don't like minded wonder. and you'll also learn a lot of the biggest challenge with the she was not that big to get you mentioned the origin story and i think i think it's pretty remarkable because as far as i know, the 1st time this breaks metaphor, this breaks i traditional was coined it was actually proposed by a goldman sachs trader who essentially proposed that as a marketing ploy to sell the shares of developing countries and slowly

but surely then evolved into a viable organization 1st by regular to regular meetings, all foreign ministers of those countries and down through the summits of have the state. so essentially it was something that came out of western financial system and he had a vault into a distinct north western grouping. what do you think allowed for that movement to happen? i would you do know that brakes does not come from the gym when they came together. i remember that they put it in the, in triple and so not, you know, on know and patients. busy know in the next one will when they, when they run up or the same time,

but that being false. so came to be the brakes around 2008 in global financial type. now i know that there's a gym or need to get on, you know, some issues about some mistakes. i made a mistake in picked in order and you know, we had a big, big speaking, you know, like ending away. ready who may just say she believes that for development agenda and they came together. we knew being because a, a,

a, a, a, a, a, a, a walk around the world when missing, why let's just exploring these pieces because i, you know, you, you framing this coming together of people from the entire world. but the world, if we are honest, has been divided into various tiers over the last couple of decades. and certainly if you look at the global financial infrastructure, which i know is one of your interests, you know, it aspires to be global in its reach, but it's highly centralized in terms of accumulating power and accumulating

benefits. and no one could argue that one of the reasons why rick bricks came about . 6 and one of the reasons why we have so many tensions and imbalances into was because some of the western countries have known, the entire western block insisted on keeping its privileges. 9 only to south, it speaks about the, you know, serving the interests of humanity. but if we actually look at the way the global financial infrastructure is, is designed it privileges one camp and not so much and the other. do you think this is something that is natural, it just happened historically or do you think it was designed that way? specifically to encourage the development of song and hamper in the development of others a different. but if you look at

dimension a, by any meanwhile, from any point, you have to say in the ambush and of finance, financial technologies. and so please have him leave me. no one will have something. no, not that many people do not have time to get it connected. we can do something to influence the situation know it any more on the system or i could take him to the. busy just off the bus, you know that

if i all the time it is, it has led to many is it due to you know, it's funny, you're not wrong. it's inception. but i called in a way to try and achieve more than i do. i need him governance by me. we need to get more voices, you know, multilaterally including the financial. if i may add something and let me know if you disagree with that. i think that sort of dr. has intensified with the stars of the rational peroration in ukraine. and the introduction of various whipping financial functions and trace sanctions against russia, which came to her not only this country,

but also many other countries. and i've heard many analysts suggest that with countries like argentina, egypt, saudi arabia, iran, expressing the intention to join bricks is truly becoming a platform that explores and tasks, ways of doing business sort of circumventing the western financial institutions. and you know, the streams that huh. touch with relying on those western financial institutions. do you agree with that and do you think that they're still then used to do business in the world stuck on granting develop on countries? joining us is becoming it is because of why why, what is how it will go buddy business shed and agreed there is no one power in

there, but in the single country decided it does not like it then it does not one, but you should take it so it went on that's a very, you know, locker development agenda. no. there was no region in the world once. what are the main away? it was a 100 in the world was investment for people in the region in the world. once i said, you're not able to find it, not to invest in research, and then i took it to building the a

is a no, it's a big tool meet. if you use a musical, may i have to stop before in just a 2nd because we need to take a very short break my table and return to that subject. in a few minutes, they can, ah find her with a form over tens of thousands of years can give us important information into our

climate and how it has changed over time. what a scary is our glaciers are milton, at an alarming rate to learn more, we came here to help us to speak to victor. couple years ago, geologist was devoted his entire life to the topic. it is a fascinating at times dangerous and very important. a welcome back to was a part with mickey, so cool by a research fellow at institute for penn, african thought and conversation is a combined before the break. you mentioned this strong drive by and developing economists to industrialize faster and in a more varied way to ensure a safe guards against external shocks being depend damning the war sanctions. what

have you? is it only about faster and more secure, bro, for you? or isn't it also about national found who had set up sort of not only the right to develop, but don't the right to develop in your own way to walk the road of progress at your own pace and in your own gay? quite often with a home by your own. s a s lee, a job. i know, you know, country depot is difficult for so we need

to bend in this country. so you would want to live in a different amount in terms of investment needed for your individual country. so each country has to essentially feed a determined by mistake. why this is exactly what the concept of sovereignty refers to, you know, in doing things and aspiring to 2nd goals, but in your own way, sort of do we all come from different parts of the world. and it could be argued that we all appreciate similar things, but we access down differently. and i wonder if i have given any thought to

how various countries can set up cultivate this appreciation of local conditions in their own population. because sure, we all want to achieve certain pragmatic things are living standards, but to me also, and deal with very significant self power influence of the west, which comes with, you know, pushing its own values. all narratives are own interest on the other populations and it's very easy just to come to this temptation that you know, are the nation's way of doing things is more attractive than yours that you know, grass is always greener and the other side. have you thought about how to sort of cultivated this appreciation of grassroots weighs in people or some developments a

a, a. m a condition. this is what we do with a chinese facing challenges and development. beginning on internal measures. we think on the african union is what a position on on the agree with you and just thank you. bye up. again, punching in to say that then one should let them know on you know,

what did they want? on the other hand, as they went on thing to do is, you know, if i'm what goes on fine and under conditions 0, i did, you know, or minimal conditionality so that you do not take country. i need to make sure that i make sure that the project that people that it's been to. ready not, not to tell me in this one way.

why not? that is what, let's just say that we have to look at that. what you know, by in gauging that is why you're right now it's non interference, you know, in 10 and by but you know, we do have responsibility as many as we're developing one corner of what it means that was affluent for know and me. and i'm the development for that, just be well speaking of which if can ask here someone else? i think a question, but i'm a big fan of i can tackle psychology and i think fairness is, has an archetype appeal or meaning that regardless of cultural differences,

people have an innate sense of balance of given take. and even though many western countries, the most african countries see themselves as a gibberish, i sense from my, travels around the world and from my conversations with people around the world that at least in part of this resistance associated with western. well, you asked to do something with this somewhat boy attitude towards the rest of the world that you know, many african countries have practiced and not only over and take it, but over centuries. what do you think about and do you think the west historically has given as much back as it has taken from the rest of the world? a people where it operates in countries where it operates. it

a, a, a, a, a, a, my, a . now what do we have right now? maybe not into the one didn't call me a doesn't always come to okay, that comes to the point and then it comes all the way that we think we give money. but our company will be the ones that provide product. so in the end,

why does the benefit that i get so and so it's so i'm not too sure what given best buy there was to africa actually been recently attended your conference or doing things and really right. i mean do much of your opinion. some things where you, where development in a different way, we need to know why we should have been doing things in the waking. in fact, they've been challenges in europe. so after that, you know, in the next fight it was, you know, what?

i mean with them for you know, that if it is not so essentially what you're suggesting is that an authentic philosophy of when, when did the idea that if you actually mistreat your neighbor, it will come back and hurt you. and i think this is what you mentioned, those western economists, but it's well known, the africa view bulge couldn't be an opportunity, but it could also be a major risk and not only 2 european economies if the migration is on control, but pretty much to the rest of the world because everybody in the world wants dignified life and the once you know good prospects in life can i ask very, very fast because we only have left them a minute. but you wrote a lot about this youth bulged and it could actually be turned into a huge benefit. you know, something that could allow africa to have faster than average growth rates. what,

you know, some of the things that you think needs to be done to allow for that conversion to happen rather than, you know, the youth bulge being a major security risk, turning it into a real you've benefit. i think that's important is and all of them are more than anything in finance or in fact like what you need inside the unit infrastructure to move people around. you know for the 2nd issue is investors. i mean, investment, but now you have a young relation in middle of that is savvy, take that given and it's growing. i mean, if you went through that, that point 5 up in the 7 year population or the job,

you know, that will need the ation of your mission. one of the, one of the people pushing against job by j shots and demick order. and then mental young people have been which will educated to do their work. but they, they need, they need to, in the areas when you're in intervention in the digital there, when i say choose everything and everything is and so on. and young

people that are there one diligently to, to, to develop that engine to get to come by. we have to move in there. we are out of time, but i'm really grateful for for this conversation. thank you very much. thank you so much and thank you for watching hope to hear again on was apart from me. ah ah

ah ah, in the lease of canter russian state total narrative type is on the nose landscape div. mm hm. and i'm not getting all sunset for a coup in the 55 when. okay, so 9 is to final speed anyone else with will ban in the european union? the kremlin community up machine. restate on russia for date and split our t spoke neck even our video agency, roughly all bands on youtube with

bullying into a so booty toria? no cranium, g. toya showed enough idea she ship. dr. lee, that ship board of control in particular boards. so she's, she'll did each cd at them awarded by like, his sister lillie premium if not $66.00, 7th of lucy. leah with our comma jones. actually it's kim shopped our cool little news, but i live in buffalo and then oh, crazed, he's dental there. you store lot of the, my saw glenn but just dory. yes or no, it's i live she elise, get us, which i, we ship a gift or should look like you more what doesn't i need a are you paying schools for that for a one they each or where are you familiar

with global a few took on my job is to broadview enough with those with our, as the west claim to russia's peace efforts are not real, yet openly admits it. baker peace talks with moscow last march to buy its military time to re arm and regroup. also this, our we as africans need to resist is this impulse of wanting to direct the double standard. the international community is obligated to support the paths african countries have chosen for themselves.