a challenge is devoted his entire life to the topic. it is a fuss at times dangerous, and very important job with learn, welcome to was a part united. we stand divided, we fall. these ethos, 1st articulated by a so, has been central to the evolution of the western world view. having been involved in context as diverse as the bible sermons and politicians species. and. * the west still sides unity as the backdrop of its international policy. brazil, russia,

india, china, and south africa has started to explore a different approach to unity. the one that does not require the sameness of values or uniformity of action can the will be re united through divisions or to discuss that i'm not joined from pretoria by the key. so could buy a research follow at institute for african thought and conversation. mr. combines great to talk to you. thank you very much for your time. i do have also a associated with your new stuff and i'm sure that expands your expertise and that's why this conversation will be even more substantive. now i. 9 know that both of these isolations, you explore your academic interest in breaks. and as i suggested in my introduction, the countries that make up this group, i was those that are interested in joining. it has very different national

identities. they have different forms of governance. they have different value systems, and yet somehow this group keeps arising in prominence despite all those differences, divisions, distinctions. what have you, given breaks, lack of insistence on unity. what keeps it together. there's a problem in there. what in the governance? only the governance and financial like, you know, agenda is very much younger than sooner today. you know, you have a significantly influential or just your cell phones and they're all, they're all, each one of them. something quite,

you know, then maybe how are you on the international issue. so it's not so much an issue in this country and what if it was a whole, you know, it's more of a like minded wonder. and you also learn a lot of the biggest challenge with a little bit to get

you mentioned the origin story and i think i think it's pretty remarkable because as far as i know, the 1st time this breaks metaphor, this breaks a traditional was coined. it was actually proposed by a goldman sachs trader who essentially proposed that as a marketing ploy to sell the shares of developing countries and slowly but surely it then evolved into a viable organization 1st by regular to regular meetings, all foreign ministers of those countries. i'm down through the summits of have the state. so essentially it was something that came out of our western financial system and he had a vault into a distinct north western grouping. what do you think allowed for that movement to happen? i would you do know that brakes does not come from

the gym when they came together. remember that they put it in the, in triple and so on and the expectations for. busy know in the next one, it will when they, when they run up on the same time and that being false. so came to know the brakes around the 2008 in global financial type. now i know that jim, or need to get on, you know, buy some issues about mistakes. i made a mistake in picked in order and you know, we had a big,

big speaking in the building. oh. ready who may just say she believes that development agenda and they came together for doing year being because i think i know is a major manager here and we're talking about coming together of human beings. no different coming together. there was to get that and we have a whole and chinese you may not you know, not local from around the world. well. 8 mystical by let's just explore the spaces because i, you know, you, you framing this coming together of people from the entire world. but the world,

if we are honest, has been divided into various tiers over the last couple of decades. and certainly if you look at the global financial infrastructure, which i know is one of your interests, you know, in aspires to be global in its reach. but it's highly centralized in terms of accumulating power and accumulating benefits. and no one could argue that one of the reasons why break breaks came about. 6 and one of the reasons why we have so many tensions and imbalances into, well, there's because some of the western countries have known, the entire western block insisted on keeping its privileges. 9 and only chance out it speaks about the, you know, serving the interest of humanity. but if we actually look at the way the global financial infrastructure is, is designed it privileges one camp and not so much. and the other one,

do you think this is something that is natural in just happened historically, or do you think it was designed that way? specifically to encourage the development of song and hamper in the development of others. a different it was a dimension a from a finance, a, a, a, a, a is yes.

a we can do something to influence the situation. ok. it any more or i could take him to the. busy just off the bus, you know that if i all the time it is, it has led to many is it due to, you know, it's funny. just not empty wrong. it's inception they pulled, made and decided that's where to where to try and achieve more governance. you know, we need to get more voices, you know,

multilaterally including that financial. if i may add something and let me know if you're just given that i think that sort of dr. has intensified with the stars of the rational peroration in ukraine and the introduction of various whipping financial functions and tre sanctions against russia, which came to her not only this country, but also many other countries. and i've heard many analysts suggest that with countries like argentina, egypt, saudi arabia, iran, expressing the intention to join bricks is truly becoming a platform that explores and tasks, ways of doing business sort of circumventing the western financial institutions. and you know, the streams that. a hama, ties with, relying on those western financial institutions. do you agree with that and do you think that they're still then used to do business in the world stuck on granting

develop on countries joining is becoming it is why why then what is i think and how do you feel body shed and i agreed there is no one power and i end up, but in the thing the country decided it does not like it was easy and then pretty, pretty should double digit. so when you're on that the video, you know, development agenda know comes in the well. so no region in the world, one for the main away it was a 100 years in the world was investment for

people in the region in the world. one i said no to finance, not to invest in research. and then i took it to building the technology, the finances, but does not think so. you know, we need to come in a know if the school meet you and the total of the management. oh, my musical, my, i have to stop you for just a 2nd because we need to take a very short break, but we will return to that subject in a few minutes they can. ah,

he's got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy confrontation, let it be an arms. race is often very dramatic. development. only personally, i'm going to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successfully, very difficult time. time to sit down and talk with the me the welcome back to was

a part with make the case of cool by research fella institute for african thought and conversation that took my before the break. you mentioned this strong drive by developing economies to industrialize faster and in a more varied way to ensure a safe guards against external shocks be depend, downing the war sanctions. what have you, is it only about faster and more secure, bro, for you? or isn't it also about national self? who has sort of literally the right to develop, but those are the right to develop in your own way. you want to be abroad of progress at your own pace, in your own gay. i would like to agent or buy your, your own country into one

way you can let joe know 5 countries differ in different social and national been in the country. so you would want to live men here know by that a big difference in terms of investment needed for your individual country. so each country has to buy essentially feeds in it and that it is a a mystic way. this is exactly what the concept of sovereignty

refers to, you know, in doing things and aspiring to 2nd goals, but in your own way, sort of do we all come from different parts of the world. and it can be argued that we all appreciate similar things, but we axes down differently. and i wonder if i have given any thought to how various countries can cetera cultivate these appreciation of local conditions in their own population. because sure, we all want to achieve certain pragmatic things or living standards. but we also and deal with very significant soft power influence of the west, which comes with, you know, pushing its own values. all narratives are own interest on the other populations and it's very easy to succumb to this temptation that you know, are the nation's way of doing things is more attractive than yours that you know,

just is always greener and the other side. have you thought about how to sort of cultivated this appreciation of rascals weighs in people or some developments or continent a want to live in a more a condition. this is what we do with the chinese facing challenges and development programs in the beginning. one on one channel we

think on the african union is what a position one on one agree with you. thank you. bye bye. again, punching in to say that then one should, you know, on, you know, what do you think on the other hand, has been up all the interventions as many thing given you know, some of those on fine and under conditions 0. i did you know or minimal. yeah,

no conditionality so that you do not conscious i need to make sure that it is viable. make sure that the project people but it's been too . ready not to tell me in this one way. why not? that is what, let's just say that we have to look at the different types of what they got your engagement. that is why you're not the right now. it's non interference. you know, in 10, by honest, but we do have a responsibility to many development. and with that one corner there was that was affluent for know, and i,

but it may sound under development forever. that just can be well speaking of which if i can ask here someone else, i think a question, but i'm a big fan of i can tackle psychology and i think fairness is, has an archetypal appeal or meaning that regardless of cultural differences, people have an innate sense of balance of given take and even though many western countries, the most african countries see themselves as a gibberish, i sense from my, travels around the world and from my conversations with people around the world. that, at least in part of this resistance associated with western, well, you asked to do something these with this somewhat boy, if i could, you towards the rest of the world that you know, many african countries have practiced not only over and they can, but over centuries what do you think about and do you think the west historically

has given as much back as it has taken from the rest of the world? a to the people where it operates in countries where it operates? a, a, the initial, a, a 10, a year for my a project. now, what do we have right now? maybe not into the continent. a,

a, a that comes to the point and then also with condition that we bring, we give money, but our company will be the ones that provide product. so in the end, why does the benefit place and the target is so i'm not too sure. you know what given back by there was to africa been recently attended your conference or that she doing things and really right. i mean, this is much african think think your opinion thing

where you, where developments in a different way we need to give up and why we should have been doing things in the wake. and in fact, they've been telling you that so after that, you know, in the next you fight it was, you know, what i mean with them for, you know, that is divided is not. so essentially what you're suggesting is that an authentic philosophy of when, when did the idea that if you actually miss truth, your neighbor, it will come back and hurt you. and i think this is what you mentioned, those western economists, but it's. * well known, the africa, you bulge could be an opportunity, but it could also be a major risk and not only 2 european economies if the migration is on control, but pretty much to the rest of the world. because everybody in the world, once

a dignified life and the once you know good prospects in life, can i ask very, very fast because we only have less than a minute. but you wrote a lot about this youth bulged and it could actually be turned into a huge benefit. you know, something that could allow africa to have faster than average growth rates. what, you know, some of the things that you think needs to be done to allow for that conversion to happen rather than, you know, the youth bulge being a major security risk, turning it into a real benefit. i think that important is and all of them are in the shop. more than anything in finance for info info to gauge your interest to move people around need in

their 2nd issue is investors investment now you have a young population increase, you know, maybe take that and it's growing. i mean, if you're quincy that the point 5000000 in population or job, you know, that will need the ation of your mission. one of the, one of the people you're pushing against your job by jane shots monday may 4th. and then did your mental young people haven't, which would educated to do their work, but they, they need they need that. so when you're in

intervention, look at me in the lab there went way on. you know, i see, you know, everything is mine. everything is and so on and young people, not a, a, a why we have to live in there. we are out of time, but i'm really grateful for for this conversation. thank you very much. thank you so much for it. and thank you for watching home to syria. again, i want to part with

me. ah, the only one main thing is important for not ism internationally speaking to that is that nations allowed to do anything, all the mazda races, and then you have the mind, the nations who are the slaves. americans and others have had a concept of american exceptionalism. international law exist as long as it serves american interest. if it doesn't, it doesn't exist. like turning those russians into this dangerous go. you man, that wants to take over the world. that was

a culture strategy. so some of it on your own. i mean, i not leashed, often zip on in tablet, la. nato said it's ours. we moved east and the reason us, hey jim, it is so dangerous. is it the by the sovereignty of all the countries? the exceptionalism that america uses and its international war planning is one of the greatest threats to the populations of different nations. if nato, what disbanded shareholders in united states and elsewhere in large obs companies would lose millions and millions or is business and business is good. and that is the reality of what we're facing. which is fashion lucius, which are formed over tens of thousands of years can give us important information into our climate and how it has changed over time. and what

a scary is our glaciers are melting, added alarming rate to learn more. we came here to help help us to speak to victor puppet. he is a gracie ella, who is devoted his entire life to the topic. it is a fascinating, at times dangerous, and very important job. a need to come to rush in state will never be outside as i phone and the nurse 19 div asking him then i'll send them up for a group in the 55 when. okay, so 9 is 25 and speaking with ben in the european union, the kremlin, yup, machine. the state on to russia for date and split our t spoke neck, even our video agency, roughly all band on youtube. with

ah mm ah, when african countries want to develop security relations with other nations? this leads to certain reactions that you apply the same philosophy and mentality anywhere in the world. rush as far as to say, western countries are applying a neo colonialist approach to africa by patronized nations instead of cooperating with also what had china land bath washington for portraying it as a barrier to solving africa's depth with beijing coating? the usb main reason if the continents economic stability a decade.