lou needs to come to the russian state. little narrative side as i'm phone and the most i'm seeing with within the 55 when. okay, so 9 is 25 will be anyone else with will ban in the european union? the kremlin. yup. machine. the state on russia for date and school r t spoke neck, even our video agency, roughly all bands on youtube with a

with mm welcome to was a part united we found divided. we fall based if those 1st articulated by a sub has been central to the evolution of the western world view having been involved in context as diverse as the bible sermons and politicians teachers. * and the west still sides unity as the backdrop of its international policy. brazil, russia, engage, and south africa has started to explore

a different approach to unity. the one that does not require the sameness of values or uniformity of action can that will be reunited through divisions. to discuss that i'm not joined from pit toria by make a key. so could buy a research follow at institute for african thought and conversation. mr. combine is a great to talk to thank you very much for your time, a associated with your new stuff, and i'm sure that expensive your expertise and that's why this conversation will be even more substantive. now i know that they're both of these isolations. you explore your academic interest in breaks, and as i suggested in my introduction, the countries that make up this group as well as those that are interested in joining it has very different national identities. they have different forms of

governance. they have different value systems. and yet, somehow this group keeps arising in prominence despite all those differences, divisions, distinctions, what have you, given breaks, lack of insistence on unity. what keeps it together? there's a problem not in the governance. one financial like, you know, a did a, a just use the and they're all, they're all, each one of them in 2 days . they all know then may be how

much you are on the international corporation. and so not so much an issue at this time. what if it was a whole, you know, it's more of a like minded wonder and you'll also learn a lot of the biggest challenge with a little bit to get you mentioned the origin story and i think i think it's pretty remarkable because

as far as i know, the 1st time this breaks metaphor, this breaks a traditional was coined, it was actually proposed by a goldman sachs trader who essentially proposed that as a marketing ploy to sell the shares of developing countries and slowly but surely it then evolved into a viable organization. first, by regular, to regular meetings, all foreign ministers of those countries on down through the summits of have the state. so essentially it was something that came out of our western financial system and we had a vault into a distinct north western grouping. what do you think allowed for that movement to happen? i would you do know that big? no, it does not come from the gym when they came together. i remember that

they're in the, in triple and so not, you know, on know and the expectations. busy know in the next one will when they, when they run up on the same time, but that being false. so came to be the brakes around the 2008 in global financial type. now i know that there's a gym or need to get on. you know, some issues about some mistakes. i made a mistake in picked in order and you know, we had a big, big speaking in like ending away. ready

who may just say she believes that for development agenda and they came together. we're being because a a a, a, a, a, a, a no, no, no, no, no, it's a walk around the world. when missing my, let's just exploring the spaces because i, you know, you frame it is coming together of people from the entire world. but the world, if we are on as has been divided into various tiers over the last couple of decades

. and certainly if you look at the global financial infrastructure, which i know is one of your interests, you know, it aspires to be global in its reach, but it's highly centralized in terms of accumulating power and accumulating benefits. and no one could argue that one of the reasons why break breaks came about. 6 and one of the reasons why we have so many tensions and imbalances into, well, there's because some of the western countries have known, the entire western block insisted on keeping its privileges. 9 only to south, it speaks about the, you know, serving the interests of humanity. but if we actually look at the way the global financial infrastructure is, is designed it privileges one camp and not so much and the other. do you think this is something that is natural in just happened historically,

or do you think it was designed that way? specifically to encourage the development of song and hamper in the development of others a different. but if you look at dimension a, by any meanwhile, from any corner me, you have to pay in the ambush and of finance, financial technologies. and so, but it came in to him. no wonder if that's something you know that many people not being able to look at it and he is yes. forget that. not connected. we can do something to

influence the situation in the system or on the system or i could take him to their. busy just off the bus, you know that if i all the time it is, it has led to many is it will take, you know, 500. you're not wrong. it's inception. they called me and decided that way to try and achieve more governance by me. we need to get more voices, you know, multilaterally,

including that financial. if i may add something and let me know if you're just given that i think that sort of dr. has intensified with the stars of the rational peroration in ukraine and the introduction of various whipping financial functions and tre sanctions against russia, which came to her not only this country, but also many other countries. and i've heard many analysts adjust that with countries like argentina, egypt, saudi arabia, iran, expressing the intention to join bricks is truly becoming a platform that explores and tasks, ways of doing business sort of circumventing the western financial institutions. and you know, the streams that. a i'm a touch with relying on those western financial institutions. do you agree with that and do you think that they're still then used to do business in the world stuck on granting develop on countries joining is becoming

it is why why then what is i think and how it will go buddy, but shed and agreed there is no one power get in there, but, but in the single country, you know that it does not like it and then you should take it. so when you're on the video, i take you out of the brief development agenda no times in the world. so no region in the world once would remain away. it was a 100 years in the world once investment for people in the region in the world,

one know 2 and it will finance enough to invest in research. and then i took it to building the technology. the does not think so. no, we need to as a company, this was it was a company is based on the lens. no, no, it's the school meet. you know, a total of the management. oh, my mystical, my, i have to stop before in just a 2nd because we need to take a very short break, but he will return to that subject. in a few minutes, they can, ah

ah ah, in 1834 france invaded algeria, and straight away the french started inhabiting it to strengthen their position. the colonists, known as p a. no, ours took the best land from day one, the local population was put into an unequal position and was brutally exploited.

this caused mass discontent. the people of algeria began their long term fight for independence. in 1954, the banner of freedom was raised by the national liberation front. a guerrilla war against the occupants broke out. the french tried to suppress to rebellion using cruel measures. full villages were wiped out packs of georgia and executions of civil people, including pregnant women children and old people took place more than 2000000 people were put into concentration camps. however, these punitive measures didn't help the algerian patriots managed to induce france the start fees, negotiation. in 1962, evian records were signed, voting algeria in the past towards independence. but this was achieved at a colossal price. algeria by rights is considered to be a country of martyrs. according to the calculations of historians,

the french colonists are responsible for the deaths of one and a half 1000000 algerians. ah, mm. mm hm . welcome back to wowza parts with make it the key. who, by research paula institute for pan african thought and conversation that you could buy before the break. you mentioned this strong drive by developing economies to industrialize faster and in a more varied way to ensure a safe guards against external shocks be depend, downing the war sanctions. what have you, is it only about faster and more secure growth for you or isn't it also about national falsehoods?

sort of literally the rise to develop, but those are the right to develop in your own way to want to be abroad of progress at your own pace in your own gay. quite often we'd like to as agent eggs or by your, your own country present or one way you can have a joke. 5 countries differ is different. so we need to bend in this country. so you would want to live, you meant by that difference in terms of investment needed for your individual country. so each country has so

essentially feeds in under it is a determined by the mystic way. this is exactly what the concept of sovereignty refers to, you know, in doing things like aspiring to 2nd goals. but in your own way, sort of do we all come from different parts of the world. and it can be argued that we all appreciate similar things, but we access down differently. and i wonder if i have given any thought to how various countries can set up cultivate these appreciation of local conditions in their own population. because sure,

we all want to achieve certain pragmatic things are living standards. but we also and deal with very significant soft power influence of the west, which comes with, you know, pushing its own values. all narratives are own interest on the other populations and it's very easy to succumb to this temptation that you know, are the nation's way of doing things is more attractive than yours that you know, grass is always greener. on the other side, have you thought about how to sort of cultivated this appreciation of rational ways in people, or some developments or continent a one in a

a condition. this is what we do with the chinese facing challenges and development programs in the beginning. one on one channel we think on the african union is what a position one on douglas. i agree with you on it, but i think the applicant punching in to say that then one should you know, on, you know, why did one on the other hand has been up all the

interventions they've been given is some of those on fine and under conditions 0, i need to know or minimal conditionality so that you do not take country i need to make sure that it is viable. make sure that the project that people but it's been too. ready not to tell me in this one way or not, that is what i just say that way of to look at it differently. what they got your engagement. that is why you're not the

right now. it's non interrupt, you know, in terms of but we do have a responsibility to many development and with that one corner that was affluent. know, and i didn't make it on that development for that job can be well speaking of which if i can ask here someone else, i think a question, but i'm a big fan of i can tackle psychology and i think fairness is has an archetypal appeal or meaning that regardless of cultural differences, people have an innate sense of balance of given take. and even though many western countries, the most african countries see themselves as a gibberish, i sense from my, travels around the world and from my conversations with people around the world

that at least in part of this resistance associated with western. well, you asked to do something these with this somewhat more attitude towards the rest of the world that you know, many african countries have practiced and not only over and they can but over centuries. what do you think about and do you think the west historically has given as much back as it has taken from the rest of the world? a to the people where it operates in countries where it operates. it a, a, a,

a, a, a, a, my, a . now, what do we have right now? maybe not into the continent. a, a, a, a come to the point and then also with condition that we bring, we give money. but our company will be the ones that provide product. so in the end, why does it benefit to the target or is

it i'm not to show you know what? giving back by their ways to africa, actually been recently attended your conference of that she doing things really. right. i mean this is much of your opinion. think thing where you were working development in a different way. we need to give up and why we should have been doing things in the wake. and in fact, they've been challenges. and so after that, you know, in the next fight it was, you know, what i mean with them for you know, that if it is not so essentially what you're suggesting is an authentic philosophy of when,

when they're the idea that if you actually mistreat your neighbor it will come back and hurt you and i think this is what you mentioned, those western economists, but it's. * well known, the africa, you bulge could be an opportunity, but it could also be a major risk and not only european economies if the migration is on control, but pretty much to the rest of the world. because everybody in the world, once a dignified life and the once you know good prospects in life, can i ask very, very fast because we only have less than a minute. but you wrote a lot about this youth bulged and it could actually be turned into a huge benefit. you know, something that could allow africa to have faster than average growth rates. what, you know, some of the things that you think needs to be done to allow for that conversion to happen rather than, you know, the youth bulge being a major security risk,

turning it into a real benefit. i think that important areas and all of them are more than anything in finance for what you need inside educate unit infrastructure to move people around. you know for the 2nd issue is investors. i mean, investment, but now you have a young relation to increase the middle of that take that given and it's growing. i mean if you went through that that point 57 year population of the jobs that will need ation of your mission. one of the, one of the people pushing against the robot by jane shot

and damage order. and then to mentally young people have been which will educated to do their work. but they, they need to finance. they need to, in the areas when you're in intervention in the lab there, when i say choose everything, everything is digital and so on. and young people that are there, one to 2 agents. you're not given that engine can

give me a call by we have to leave it there. we are out of time, but i'm really grateful for for this conversation. thank you very much. thank you so much and thank you for watching. i hope to hear again on was apart from me. ah, ah, ah, if you only find the pronouncement in the so called analysis from western governments and their ply and media been, you know, very little about the conflict in ukraine. the fact is, ukraine is losing on this edition of crosstalk. we discussed how this conflict is

likely to end ah ah, when african countries want to develop security relations with other nations? this leads to certain reactions the you applies the same philosophy and mentality anywhere in the world. russia as far as to say that western countries are applying a neo colonialist approach to africa by patronizing nations instead of cooperating with overhead. china land vast washington for portraying gay because that barrier is solving africa's debt with beijing coating. the u. s. the language in it because then we can all make instability.