evolution of the western world view having been involved in context as diverse as the bible sermons and politicians species. and while the west still sides unity as the backdrop of its international policy. brazil, russia, india, china, and south africa has started to explore a different approach to unity. the one that does not require the sameness of values or uniformity of action can they will be re united through divisions. well, to discuss that, i'm not joined from pretoria by mika, the key, so could buy a research follow at institute for african thought and conversation. mr. combine is a great to talk to thank you very much for your time. a. associated with your news and i'm sure that expands your expertise and that's why this conversation will be even more substantive. now i know that both of these affiliations you explore your

academic interest and breaks. and as i suggested in my introduction, the countries that make up this group as well as those that are interested in joining it, have very different national identities. they have different forms of governance. they have different value systems. and yet somehow this group keeps arising in prominence. despite all those differences, divisions, distinctions, what have you, given breaks, lack of insistence on unity, what keeps it together. so the problem in the governance of the money only and the governors, well it global financial now no gender much sooner to date, you have the big inflation in

columns and they're all, they're all, each one of them something quite unique days. they all know then maybe how are you on the international corporation? and so not so much an issue of these kind of what, what the potential connective like minded wonder. and you'll also learn a lot of the biggest challenge

with a little bit to get you mentioned the origin story and i think i think it's pretty remarkable because as far as i know, the 1st time this breaks metaphor, this breaks a traditional was coined. it was actually proposed by a goldman sachs trader who essentially proposed that as a marketing ploy to sell the shares of developing countries and slowly but surely it then evolved into a viable organization 1st by regular to regular meetings, all foreign ministers of those countries and down through the summits of have the state. so essentially it was something that came out of our western financial system and he had a volved into a distinct north western grouping. what do you think allowed for that movement to

happen? i would you do know that brakes does not come from the gym when they came together. i remember that they put it in the, in triple and so not, you know, on and the expectations for know in the next one will when they, when they run up on the same time. but that being false. so came to know the brakes around the 2008 in global financial type. now i know that there's a gym or need to get on, you know,

some issues about mistakes. i made a mistake in picked in order and you know, we had a big, big speaking, you know, in like you know. ready who may just say she believes that for development agenda and they came together being because a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a no, no, no, no, no, it's a walk around the world. when missing my,

let's just exploring the spaces because i, you know, you framing this coming together of people from the entire world. but the world, if we are honest, has been divided into various tiers over the last couple of decades. and certainly if you look at the global financial infrastructure, which i know is one of your interest, you know, it aspires to be global in its reach, but it's highly centralized in terms of accumulating power and accumulating benefits. and no one could argue that one of the reasons why break breaks came about and. 6 1 of the reasons why we have so many tensions and imbalances into, well, there's because some of the western countries have known, the entire western block insisted on keeping its privileges. 9 only to south, it speaks about the, you know,

serving the interests of humanity. but if we actually look at the way the global financial infrastructure is, is designed it privileges one camp and not so much the other. do you think this is something that is natural, it just happened historically or do you think it was designed that way? specifically to encourage the development of song and hamper in the development of others a different. but if you look at dimension a, by any meanwhile, from any point, you have to say in the ambush and of finance, financial technologies. and so please call me, let me know one. all

right, that's something know that many people do not have time to get it to be connected. we can do something to influence the situation it any more or i could take him to the. busy just off the bus, you know that if i all the time it is, it has led to many is it due to it? it's not empty. wrong. it's inception. they called me and decided that way to try and

achieve more governance by me. we need to get more voices, you know, multilaterally, including that financial. if i may add something and let me know if you're just given that i think that sort of dr. has intensified with the stars of the rational peroration in ukraine and the introduction of various whipping financial functions and tre sanctions against russia, which came to her not only this country, but also many other countries. and i've heard many analysts suggest that with countries like argentina, egypt, saudi arabia, iran, expressing the intention to join bricks is truly becoming a platform that explores and tasks, ways of doing business sort of circumventing the western financial institutions. and you know, the streams that. a i'm

a touch with relying on those western financial institutions. do you agree with that and do you think that they're still then used to do business in the world circle granting develop on countries joining to become is why why, why am i speaking? how buddy for business shed and agreed there is no one power in there. but in the country you decide. it does not like it, then you should take it. so when you're on the video, i take you out of the development

agenda no times in the world. so no region in the world, one for the main away it was a 100 years in the world was investment for people in the region in the world. once i said, you're not able to finance not to invest in research and development, and i took it to building the technology. the does not think so. no, we need to say come in this morning. it will say come in. if you're not from the lens, no, no, it's the school meet. you know, a total of their management. oh my, mr. guy, i have to stop in for just a 2nd because we need to take a very short break. my team will return to that subject in a few minutes. they can,

ah ah, ah, is you'll media a reflection of reality in the world transformed what will make you feel safe? isolation, community? are you going the right way or are you being that somewhere? direct? what is true? what is faith? in the world corrupted, you need to descend a join us in the depths will remain in the

shallows. on cheap energy coming from russia. russian gas, cheap, and suppose, affordable and ship. you are in a stable, which has been not the case, it is a will, that is no longer there. i with some form that i can put on you to shouldn't need to pick the order. but some of them, most people look well both need you in a new one, you both use good. and could you prove disco speaking to my little to who, who, who, who you, why do you decide on sanctions to sanction country?

a section of kristen because you want to change the behavior of the government was gruesome was that hasn't happened. sanction testing function a welcome back to was a part with make that the key. so could buy a research fellow at institute for penn, african thought and conversation is a combined before the break. you mentioned this strong drive by and developing economies to industrialize faster and in a more varied way to ensure a safeguards against external shocks being depend damning the war sanctions. what have you? is it only about faster and more secure, bro,

for your or isn't it also about national found who it's sort of not only the right to develop, but those are the right to develop in your own way to walk the broad of progress at your own pace. and in your own, gay quite often will make sure that agent for you and all your own a one people in this way, a geography. no, no, no, no countries differ. i'm is default. i. so i need to bend in this country. if i tell you what was left you meant by that

that differences in terms of investment needed for your individual country. so he's country head so essentially feeds in it has development issues. it's not, it's not determined by any mystical, but this is exactly what the us, the concept of sovereignty refers to, you know, doing things like aspiring to certain goals, but in your own way, sort of do we all come from different parts of the world and it can be argued that we all appreciate similar things, but we actually down differently. and i wonder if you have given any thought to how various countries can sort of cultivate this appreciation

of local conditions in their own population. because, oh, sure, we all want to achieve certain pragmatic things are living standards. but we also deal with very significant soft power influence of the west, which comes with, you know, pushing its own values. all narratives are own interest on the other populations and it's very easy just gone to this temptation that you know, other nations way of doing things is more attractive than yours. the grass is always greener. on the other side. have you thought about how to sort of cultivate this appreciation of wrath? was ways in people some development up again and let you know your thing. let them all

up to get you and you and that is, this is what our position is. what we leave with us who meets the chinese facing challenges and development programs in the beginning. one on one channel. we think on the african union is what a position one on douglas. i agree with you on it. but i think the african continent to say that then one should, you know, on, you know, what did they wonder? on the other hand, jenna has been throwing up all the interventions

they've been given or they do is you know, some of those on fine and under conditions 0. i did, you know, or minimal conditionality so that you do not every country i need to make sure that it is viable make sure that the project people but it's been too . ready not to tell me in this one way. why not? that is what, let's just say that we have to look at it differently. what got your

engagement? that is why you're right now. it's non interference, you know, in 10 and by honest. but you know, we do have a responsibility to many developments and with that one corner there was that was affluent for know, and i didn't mean that development for that job can be well, speaking of we, i can ask here someone else i think a question, but i'm a big fan of i can tackle psychology and i think fairness is, has an archetypal appeal or meaning that regardless of cultural differences, people have an innate sense of balance of given take. and even though many western countries, the most african countries see themselves as a gibberish,

i sense from my, travels around the world and from my conversations with people around the world that at least in part of this resistance associated with western. well, you asked to do something these with this somewhat more attitude towards the rest of the world that you know, many african countries have practiced and not only over and they can but over centuries. what do you think about and do you think the west historically has given as much back as it has taken from the rest of the world? a to the people where it operates in countries where it operates? a, a, a, a,

a, a, a, a, a, a . now, what do we have right now? maybe not into the continent. a, a, a, a come to the point and then also with condition that we bring, we give money. but our company will be the ones that provide product. so in the end, why does it benefit to place in the target?

and so, and so it's, so i'm not too sure you know what, giving back by their ways to africa actually been recently attended your conference or that she doing things right. i mean, this is much african think think your opinion, think thing where you, where developments in a different way we need to give up and why we should have been doing things in the way can in fact they've been challenges. and so after that, you know, in the next fight it was, you know, what i mean with them for you know, that if it is not so essentially what you're

suggesting is an authentic philosophy of when, when they're the idea that if you actually mistreat your neighbor it will come back and hurt you and i think this is what you mentioned, those western economists, but it's. * well known, the africa, few bulge could be an opportunity, but it could also be a major risk and not only to european economies if the migration is on control, but pretty much to the rest of the world. because everybody in the world, once a dignified life and the once you know good prospects in life, can i ask very, very fast because we only have less than a minute. but you wrote a lot about this youth bulged and it could actually be turned into a huge benefit. you know, something that could allow africa to have faster than average growth rates. what, you know, some of the things that you think needs to be done to allow for that conversion to

happen rather than, you know, the youth bulge being a major security risk, turning it into a real benefit. i think that important is and all of them are more than anything in finance or like what you need in case you need to move people around, you know for the 2nd issue is investments. i mean investment, but now you have a young population increase, you know, maybe take that given and it's growing. i mean if you went through that that point 57 year population of jobs that will need a sion of

your mission. one of the, one of the people pushing against global j shots and demick order and then mental young people have been educated to do their work, but they, they need they need that. so the area is when you're in intervention in the lab there, when i say choose everything and everything is digital and so on. and young people that are there one diligently to to, to know what that engine give. busy

about for mr. come by, we have to leave it there. we are out of time, but i'm really grateful for for this conversation. thank you very much. thank you so much and thank you for watching hope to hear again on was apart from me. ah ah ah

ah, with the discovery of the new world, at the end of the 15th century, there appeared atlantic slave dre. the slave traders from european countries started building forth on the western coast of the african continent to transport the african inhabitants to america. to be forced into hard labor until the middle of the 17th century, portugal had played the main role in this atrocious business. then great britain, france and the netherlands took the leadership for the span of 400 years of legal and illegal slave trade. about 17000000 people were forcefully shipped across the atlantic. not including those who died on the way due to unbearable living conditions. modern historians estimate that for each slave ship to america, there were 5 who died while captured during transportation and cruel obliteration

of rebellion. this ruthless people tre, practice by the leading european countries, took away tens of millions of african lives. the organisation of united nations classifies that trans atlantic slave trade as one of the gravest human rights abuses in the history of humanity. this is the biggest act of deportation of people ever seen by mankind. ah, ah, wasn't it was a year, a

national z m a a blowing sanctions imposed on russia in the u. and elsewhere in the world, electricity and gas prices have risen sharply. protest are taking place over year. our prosperity has been based on cheap energy coming from russia. russian gas jeep and she bowed. affordable and shipped. you are in a stable which has been proved, not the case. and the access to the big china market. these are well that is no longer.