ah, in the world transformed what will make you feel safe? hi, solution for community. are you going the right way? where are you being that somewhere? which direction? what is true? what is faith? in the world corrupted, you need to descend ah, to join us in the depths or remain in the shallows. ah ah ah

hello and welcome to cross stock were all things are considered on peter lavelle? if you've only followed the pronouncements from the so called analysis from western governments and they're pliant media been, you know, very little about the conflict in ukraine. the fact is, ukraine is losing on this addition of crosstalk. we discuss how this conflict is likely to end with cross sucking the end game. i'm joined by my guest, jo loria in alexandra. he is the editor in chief of consortium news dot com in washington. we have john care, yahoo. he is a former cia officer, and in paris we crossed to joel rick mall. he is a political commentator or a gentleman, cross sock rules, and the fact that means you can jump in any time you want. and i always appreciated well go to jo, 1st and alexandria. there's not much debate in western media and weston in the public sphere in general about conflict in ukraine, which is

a real pity because at the end of the day, it is at the expense of the ukrainians, actually. but because there is no trust left, we have admissions from merkel petition co. and along that they never dealt in good faith with the russians. and i'm obviously making reference to the min hska process . so, negotiations at this point are not really in the cards, and i really don't see how in a normative sense negotiations we played out. this is going to be done unilaterally one way or another, joe. yeah, unfortunately, you're probably right. let's establish that this war should never have happened because as you said, they were just, they were not serious about the minster cords. they were deceiving russia, to set up, to train nato, to train ukraine for the war that they wanted, that they needed. it started in 2014 with a cool you. nobody in the west knows that very few people. there's no debate, there's no discussion has no historical context. there's no understanding of what it means because there's no understanding that nato was all and the u. s. what were offered treaty proposals, december of 2021 by russia to create

a security architecture that would include brushes, security interests, all of that was ignored by the west because they wanted this war and they got it. and they have no intention or actually right of negotiating this. they are admitting that russia is winning the war that ukraine is losing, even though it's very difficult to know exactly what's going on on the ground by the very fact that they want to send more more r i mentioned in these german tanks, which is the big issue being discussed, so i'm afraid that there are various scenarios and we don't really know. of course, it's impossible to know when and how this war will end. but the scenarios would be the destruction of the ukrainian military. the, the russia could seize all of the to start russian lands over and ukraine. they could have to take care of perhaps in order to finish di, not suffocation, although i don't see battling for key of in the streets. if you have to take over

the capitol. but some engineering of it could a talk may be possible that may end the war, ultimately to the west wants to keep bleeding russia to get back to their ultimate aim, which was to overthrow the russian government weaken it with the economic war to sac with the information war, but the proxy will all which a felon, i must say. ok, john. it really got to john in washington. you know one of the discursive, lee, if you've looked at how this narrative has been constructed. and joe did a wonderful job of introducing it here. the problem with negotiations as people call it in the west, is that towards what end to see, i would like to see peace, how do we achieve peace? but the problem is nato washington london, kevin warsaw. because those are the major bar capitals in this. they want victory. now see victory and peace. you know, they're 2 very different things. and if you

a want victory, well you're playing, you're, you're playing with it with the ultimate weapon that could possibly used in a conflict. but if you want peace, that's a very different story, but that's it. that's not attract. they want to take john. i think, i think that's exactly right, peter. and you know, that the american government has, has not prepared the american people or the american congress for peace. they've only talked about victory. and you're right, there are 2 very vastly different things. you know, here in the, in the u. s. in the mainstream media, we see only news about how well ukraine is doing. we see reports with headlines saying russia is losing. that's a disservice to both the american people and to the ukrainian people. nobody's prepared for either a long term battle or for peace, which as you know correctly, is, is very, very different from, from victory,

shows that you know, because of the way the narrative is constructed here, europe is taking the brunt of this, at least economically. we may even see social and political unrest as a result here, because you have characters like the head of nato. stilton burg, if, if ukraine is defeated, then the west is defeated, but i thought the west wasn't involved in this war. they can't even keep their narrative straight here. and, and what it does is, is that i can guarantee you and i go me expressing my personal opinion. russia will not lose this conflict under no circumstances under no conditions. it will not lose that. what losing and winning can be up. it's in the eyes of the beholder and what it that way. but from the russian perspective, they're not going to lose this. i don't think europe was prepared for that. the decision makers for the preparing for this, where they weren't prepared for that rush. it was supposed to buckle in a matter of days. the rubel is going to go to trash and it would be all over. but it's, it hasn't and it won't happen. john, go ahead and paris. no,

i'm great gunning the glue is better because you came this losing drug collapsing yet at least you see the light moved, but not very fast. good. that the german lying in 1918. they still molly? the tense is war, so i don't know if going to happen. i mean, the westport, more but more and more weapons there and i was going to happen, but i'm worried about the intensification of the conflict. now estonia is speaking of blocking the go for finland. if they do that is an act of war, but of course if russians he acted that they would easily over her and they, sonya was not the problem. but then he, due to another unprovoked digression against a nato member article 5, blah blah, blah. and lord, they're going to duke and i'm was interested in the internal depression, especially in france, because you may know or not know, but now they have to do the council band. artie france, they have kids there,

there. so, so funding, i mean the, the banks cannot pay them and get money anymore, so that the bank cannot be de camp in error worker. so you have a 100 plus, a journalist are all on the door the same time. and there is a campaign against them. some people say that they should be verified. they have been working for the enemy and sounds of a, i mean the attack on after france and just unbelievable. and believe i found it is not unbelievable because they don't believe in free speech anymore. that is something they don't care about it. but the grade, $68.00 newspaper only be are. so we still have surgery and old 60 there they are coming back to right for them. of course, violently until russian. eddie doyle's, i mean, does joe newspaper was the 1st the most vicious against our tea and wanting to bang at ease of really, you know, he in 60, they say is forbidden to forbid the now of course it's compulsory to for been. there is really amazing or how did the change of the situation?

and then and then of course, yeah, i mean after the bending of r t for me that me just having of course, been our tv. we see not as influential as he used to be. now he says there should be of course tribunal after the war cry been of course of the ocean needed, but also for the good of a dozen. there includes, okay, when would my job, the job you're making my point here? let me go back to joe. here. tribunals, all of these things are, i mean there's, there's no pretense of trying to find a solution to this conflict here. there is actually, there is one though, go back to december 17th, 2021. that's what russia wanted. it was made public and it was brushed off. those still though those demands are still there. and that's your is morning point. if you want to have negotiations, but i think we're going to get the same exact responses we did at this time as we did then. joe wanted him okay. in april there was an opportunity. there was an opportunity for negotiation might then, and ukraine would have come out

a lot better shape course. they would have had to agree that crimea dumbass were part of russia and not join nato, but of course, united states and britain would burst. johnson and forefront prevented that negotiation and they will continue to prevent that if bach, mood falls, or when it falls, that could be an opportunity then to enter negotiation. because that is a very symbolic battle going on right now. but i don't think that's going to happen because the west wants this war to continue with the grave danger that it could escalate to. yes, the ultimate conflict. and that could be the way the war ends were all dead. and this is why the west is playing with fire right now. they will not accept that. ultimately they will have to agree to those treaties or some form of that that they will have to accommodate russia, security, interest, like the o. s. he said like the, the helsinki court, this is something that even macaroni and shows at least that early on in the conflict, we're making some noise about until america told them to shut up basically. so what

is the only way to do it is to get a negotiation. i don't know where the russians interested at this point in a negotiation really don't know exactly what they're all well, and i just like joe, i think i can answer that a little bit least. my observation, i'm going to john here. well, why would the russians go into negotiations with anybody in the west? they've been lied to left, right, and center for years. why would you even contemplate talking to these people? know what's going to happen is political facts on the ground will be made. john, go ahead in washington. you're exactly repeating, you can't, you can't trust anything that the west says because everything has been a lie. you know, we say this here all the time. the russians have the several different times just in the most recent history. trusted the west to be honest in their negotiating points, and they've never been honest. you know, we hear a lot to peter here in the united states about the russians being willing to fight to the last ukraine in. well, i would say that the truth is that it's,

it's the americans and nato that are willing to fight to the last ukrainian. we hear in the news every day hear about tax rate. all the news over the weekend was about tanks. tanks tanks, tanks aren't going to change the course of this war. the ukrainians can't win this over the long term. the only way that they could is with direct nato intervention. and that just simply won't happen. in the end, we're going to see the destruction of ukraine. we're going to see the destruction of the ukranian government. and we're going to see the movement of the ukranian people out of the country unless they agree to sit down in the russian, just as the russians asked many, many months ago. and negotiate idea, well, you know, all i can say about the, the ridiculous tank conversation. they will, they all mouth the same way gentlemen, they all know the same way. i gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on the end game. stay with our team.

ah, ah, i look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except where such order is it conflict with the 1st law, show your identification. we should be very careful about artificial intelligence. and the point obviously is to great truck rather than fit with various job with artificial intelligence. real summoning with a robot most protective phone existence with

i'm willing to do toward yeah, no cranium, g coyer shooting and she ship dr. lien that report control in particular bought. so she'll need to get the mobile polarity system will only be near them if not sig, divide the from the city. yeah. with kim's out the room news, a crazy that to leesville modern the my subway. but just dory. yes or no. i live. she believes to get us, but we ship them instead of just stick with what i needed his daughter to take him or what of them. i need a new transcript for that for

a while. i'm on the beach or where are you familiar with global? i'm saying we have about i few book on my job is to broadview enough waiting for you real quick to take a picture. go double play. you go so good. i'm up with ah, welcome back to cross hawk where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing the in the game with okay, so let's go back to john then in paris. you know, if we look at all of the recent controversy and we can go back to russia gate and we can go back to our perceptions of the 2020 election in the united states. we and all the things floating around the bi demonstration right now. and then of course

we have ukraine and in it, they all have one thing in common, bad and flawed narratives, create bad outcomes, bad policy outcomes. and we're talking about in this program possible and game negotiations. but if i go to our guest in paris, well, any negotiations with the russians is munich. it's munich every day at munich. ok. how do you get out of that called the sac? because, you know, the, it's giving moral justification. teal politics is not about morality. it's not about values, it's about power. okay. but the west will always co mingle, all these other ridiculous things and never really get to the heart of the matter. as i said in the beginning of the program, if you want peace then work through that prism. they refuse to do it because every day is munich. go ahead gentlemen. paris. yeah. busy is certainly that in germany, for example, the if day is warning again, sending trunks to the king saying that the last time they did it,

they mean 4145 in the end of their he was. and in french, the people who called themselves on a freshly said no, no because i mean, no, no because of the german bass, they must send a thanks because the new hiccup is, of course, put in. i mean, it's completely ridiculous. you know, a long time ago and they come in, they told me that the phone with central ship, if you sensor audio this audio hopefulness. then when you make a mistake, there's nobody to tell you. and that's it. actually what the west is doing now. but basically shutting down old voices, and i gave the example of our fee to us up to hold the main. i know many journalists from after you there was no co hershon of put in the just wanted to get, give a job where giving you a bunch of information like people do on the, on smaller, you know, websites. but then of course, those people have to big for monday ended on get paid. and when you were for are to you with a way to being paid. there's a difference. but these people who are not put in a portion, or he turns out that one of her older,

i've known that i have known several of them. they will not. i mean, went the problem. i mean, i didn't shout, it's not about being pro russia, anti russia appropriate. why don't you have a debate about the issues that's all i try to do on this program. ok, well, you can, you can just send to all you want. you can tell me anything you want. we barring swearing at me and i don't really care because it's your opinion. let me go to jo. jo in washington alexandria, excuse me, in joseph morale, the vaunted l. e. u for foreign policy chief and he said something very curious the last few days he said it west has to support ukraine beek. and, but respect russia because russia defeated napoleon and hitler so that's why the western support ukraine. i mean that the, the, the lack of logic and clear thinking from these people is really astounding. i mean, their foreign policy chief doesn't know history very well that makes him, you know, a person to, to, to talk about the entire blocks. insecurity future with its neighbor,

it's extraordinary. the lack of merit and competence. these people have jo, you know, sometimes these people that are held up in the media as being great. leaders are not very smart as you just pointed out, that the ones who are smart know exactly what they're doing here. and i think there are smart people. yeah. in you and leadership who know exactly what they're trying to do. this is for the us, the opportunity they've wanted ever since put in came to power and yeltsin was gone and they lost control of russian society, finances, resources. this is what they want to get back again. but we have to understand that the, the leaders themselves may be self deluded. they, they've created a credible psy up, and they may be victims of their own cy, up. and that's what is so frightening about this, that the escalator nature of the u. s. position at the beginning, it was biden who said clearly, no, we're not going to get nato involved. we're going to stop, you won't be able to attack crimea,

we're not going to send him weapon 2nd reach into russia. this keeps changing. and this is what. so worrying right now, so that the ultimate scenario, what could happen would be the, the ultimate end game, which is the end of the world. and i don't know whether this understanding isn't of person like an alina bet, burbock the foreign minister of germany, for example, or even joe biden anymore. i wonder if they would know the fire that they're playing with here. and the only negotiation right now could stop this, otherwise just could go on for years. and if it goes on for years and it could lead, as i say, to the absolute greatest nightmare of history. you know, i judge i saw john, i saw john nodded his head there. go ahead. tell me what your naughty when joe is speaking. go ahead. well, i had to just right. and you know, i think that the west should pay very close attention to a tweet from former prime minister. meant that if on friday and, and a statement just yesterday or day before, yesterday by the chairman of the duma, russia will not lose this fight period. this is an enormous country, it's

a nuclear power. ukraine is an existential. we hear a lot of comparisons here in the united states to the u. s. fights in iraq and afghanistan, there's nothing similar. there's nothing comparable between the u. s. and afghanistan and iraq and russia and ukraine. and it's because ukraine is directly on russia's border. it's an existential threat. and because it's an existential threat, russia cannot and will not lose this fright. i think that's something that the west just simply doesn't understand and appreciate it. because they're, they're, they're, they're, they're blinded by their own ideology about their own moral virtue. it's really bizarre when they're putting the entire fate of humanity. i am based on their per self perception of their virtue verse versus to the other. meaning the russia or i me could, you could go back to burrell the garden and every in the jungle. ok. that's how

these people take very the neo colonial and away shown. you know, we're talking unfortunately in some sense, apocalyptic lee here. but before we get that, the u. s. pays almost nothing. it's not losing troops. it's making a arm sales left right, and center. and europe is, is paying the price on almost every single way. i mean, we talk about, and i'm, i, it's true truly saddens me the suffering of ukrainian people because this conflict should have been avoided. it was avoidable. but i, but i love europe just as much, and i just see europe paying the cost. you know what, you know, with the, the germans, the french and our announcing 40 percent increase in defense spending. yeah. well, you had your welfare estate because he didn't have to spend so much on the military . okay. yeah, that's all going to go away. your civil liberties are under challenge you been talking about are to you france here. i mean, you know, for all your of supportive of ukraine, what to get for it. what's a, get? nothing but just nothing internet and nothing but the director,

john aisd class has been totally bought. they do united states. that's what the girl was saying. you know, the girl said that the way the americans do they give you a back of a whiskey bottle, a send you a seminary in the united states or her dinner varies or something like that. and that's the way the correction goes. and the whole class has been corrupted beyond believe, i am up to the buffer to see how the case of imperial is master used to say these people are becoming their complete lack isn't united states. and so because it's freedom is democracy of it not inquire about any lack of democracy of freedom in energy. st. and i stood, he believed that politicians like shows and maybe my car are not as extreme as they seem. and there are others theme as the media, but they're constantly under pressure from the media. oh, on the gains in germany and haines, i just somebody over there the most warm

a property that you have a washout is on. you know, i mean, i don't want to ask anybody their age on this program, but i do remember when that greens were very, very different in the 1980s. again, i will have new in special program on that because i don't know what the hell happened to those people here. but let me, let me go talk to joe young, brought up something. i think that's really important. sergeant schultz, as i referred to him on this program and background. they have, it's very interesting, i'm glad you brought this up because if you listen to them closely, like on even day supposed odd days, they talk about after the conflict, what has to happen? and they get shut down in many or a we're in the same speed to the but we're 100 percent behind ukraine. you know, whatever it takes. but both of them are actually thinking about after the conflict, which is very interesting to me and they have their eye on washington at the same time. jo ann, well they, these are the 2 who could have provided the bug leadership that was needed to avoid this conflict. and instead they, as john pointed out, they get well beaten,

they get bright. i'm not saying macanna. ange and shots were bright, but that's is the european political class. this was europe's chance, also to be independent of both russia and china and united states to stand on its own. and they blew it as well. they have become more of a vessel of the united states than ever before. and this is one of the great tragedies that we've seen on following up to the point where their own interests, the interest of our own people. and we have to win elections of being hurt so badly . it started way back in 2014, when germany was forced by the us to put sanctions on russia back then, and the german business been more crazy. they didn't want it then. and merkle went along and did it anyway, because the americans wanted to and they were listening to her telephone. so she probably knew that. so, i mean, it is a tragedy all across the board here. and unfortunately, this conversation hasn't changed my mind one bit. i don't see any way out of this. i only see things getting much from more frightening and more dangerous. every day

. this conflict goes on. i agree with you and, and john, you know, you know, being an american living in america, the, have, we have reached a peak zalinski yet because, i mean it's, it's truly extraordinary. i've never, we thought, you know, we thought the or the drive to the iraq war was like, you know, the, the, the, the greatest propaganda gambit of all time. this has to take the cake. i mean, it's extraordinary. when i talk to people, the lack of knowledge, we have, you know, when the catastrophe had to no one in america or virtually no one in america is going to know why. go ahead, john. peter, you can buy a zalinski action figures in stores. now that's how we've reached the point of, of ridiculousness that you can buy as zelinski action figure to have as a souvenir. you know, one of the thing that has surprised me from the very beginning of this conflict is that so few americans recognized what was behind it. the united states cannot

maintain it's, it's internationally international, had gemini, when there's a strong russia and a strong china. yep. it would have to destroy one in order to focus on the other. and i think that's what we're seeing here. this is an attempt by the united states and nato allies, to destroy brush out or to bog russia down over the long term in war that was slowly bleed it so that the united states can then focus on confronting china. that's why we saw nancy pelosi dab go to taiwan with no complaints for what. right . what well and john john and kevin mccarthy is a good guy is on his way here. gentlemen, that's all all the time we have here. but i'll make my prediction at the very end being the host of the program. the end is the end of nato, and that'll be a good thing. ok, i want to thank my guests in washington alexandria and in paris. and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at ortiz. see you next time remember process

. ah, ah, ah, is your media a reflection of reality? in the world transformed what will make you feel safer? high selection community. are you going the right way, or are you being led to some with what is true? what is great in the world up did you need to descend, ah, join us in the depths or remain in the shallows?

with that when it was that i bought them all you have to be on with us. you know we do. mobile spoke with laura last with blash from. yeah, cuz i thought that was good enough. i just wondered, was it a love to let you know this was the quote what, what sandwich of yours worked for those?

you will do it. oh, good with feet long. all you simply want it will be less room. would you go by ah, lou, the near him, the trial ass irvin's on the housing, head of advert sabotage. section 2, testified on september, the 12th 1939, a black chief, admiral canada is, was instructed by 3rd wry foreign minister, a yell at him from reagan, truck. oh, it's necessary to reach out to the ukranian nationalists with whom intelligence had already had military contact to co.