tv Cross Talk RT January 25, 2023 5:30am-6:01am EST
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political campaigns, it's universities, it's everything in the united states funded by the weapons dealers so that it's normalized and accepted and you're not supposed to think of it as shameful or even as profitable, but it is hugely profitable and that's a major factor us needs to dominate the globe for its own good, whether the global likes it or not. and china is standing in a way. and china is an economic competitor, which means it's a military enemy. this is, this is what everybody in washington tells and suggests and implies the whole worry . the whole question being asked is madness. the u. s. doesn't need to be ready for a war with china. it needs to get out of a war in europe and some wars in africa in the middle east. that's all for now. be sure to check out our t v dot com for all of the latest breaking news and updates. we'll see you right back here at the top of the hour. ah
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ah, ah ah . hello and welcome to cross stock were all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle. if you have only followed the pronouncements in the so called analysis from western governments and they're pliant media, then you know very little about the conflict in ukraine. the fact is ukraine is losing on this addition of crosstalk. we discuss how this conflict is likely to end with cross fucking the end game. i'm joined by my guest, jo loria in alexandra. he is the editor in chief of consortium news dot com in
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washington. we have john kerry aku. he is a former cia officer and in paris we cross through jol, rick mall. he is a political commentator or a gentleman, cross sock rules, and the fact that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciated well go to jo, personnel, xandra. there's not much debate in western media and west in the public sphere in general about the conflict and ukraine, which is a real pity because at the end of the day, it is at the expense of the ukrainians, actually. but because there is no trust left, we have admissions from merkel pettis jenko. and along that they never dealt in good faith with the russians. and i'm obviously making reference to the min scott process. so, negotiations at this point are not really in the cards, and i really don't see how in a normative sense negotiations we played out. this is going to be done unilaterally one way or another. joe? yeah, unfortunately, probably right. let's establish that this war should never have happened because as you said, they, when they were not serious about the midst. of course,
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they were deceiving russia to set up to train nato, to train ukraine for the war that they wanted, that they needed it. start in 2014 with a cool you. nobody in the west knows that very few people. there's no debate, there's no discussion is no historical context. there's no understanding of what it means, cuz there's no understanding that nato was all and the u. s. what were offered trading proposals, december of 2021 by russia to create a security architecture that would include bushes, security interests, all of that was ignored by the west because they wanted this war and they got it. and they have no intention or actually right of negotiating this. they are admitting that russia is winning the war that ukraine is losing, even though it's very difficult to know exactly what's going on on the ground by the very fact that they want to send more more r i mentioned in these german tanks, which is the big issue being discussed, so i, i'm afraid that there are various scenarios and we don't really know. of course, it's impossible to know when and how this war will end. but the scenarios would be
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the destruction of the ukrainian military. the, the russia could seize all of its historic russian lands over and ukraine. they could have to take care of perhaps in order to finish d, not suffocation. although i don't see battling for key of in the streets, if you have to take over the capital, but some engineering of it could, it may be possible that may end the war ultimately to the west wants to keep bleeding russia to get back to their ultimate aim, which was to overthrow the russian government weaken it with the economic war with the sack, with the information war. but the proxy will all of which are failing. i must say. ok, john, it really got to john in washington. you know, one of the it discursive, lee, if you've looked at how this narrative has been constructed. and joe did a wonderful job of introducing it here. the problem with negotiations as people call it in the west, is that towards what end see, i would like to see peace,
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how do we achieve peace? but the problem is nato washington london, kevin warsaw. because those are the major bar capitals in this. they want victory. now see victory and peace. you know, they're 2 very different things. and if you a want victory, well you're playing, you're, you're playing with it with the ultimate weapon that could possibly used in a conflict. but if you want peace, that's a very different story, but that's, that's not attract. they want to take john. i think that's exactly right, peter. and you know that the american government has, has not prepared the american people or the american congress for peace. they've only talked about victory and you're right there to very vastly different things. you know, here in, in the us, in the mainstream media, we see only news about how well ukraine is doing. we see reports with headline
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saying russia is losing that, that's a disservice to both the american people and to the ukrainian people. nobody's prepared for either a long term battle or for peace, which as you note correctly is, is very, very different from, from victory. it shows that you know it because of the way the narrative is constructed here. europe is taking the brunt of this, at least economically. we may even see social and political unrest as a result here. because you have characters like the head of nato. stilton burges, if, if ukraine is defeated than the west is defeated, but i thought that the west wasn't involved in this war. they can even keep their narrative straight here. and, and what it does is, is that i can guarantee you, and i only get expressing my personal opinion. russia will not lose this conflict under no circumstances under no conditions. it will not lose that. what losing and
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winning can be up. it's in the eyes of the beholder. let's put it that way. but from the russian perspective, they're not going to lose this. i don't think europe was prepared for that. the decision makers, for the preparing for this war, they weren't prepared for that. russia were supposed to buckle in a matter of days. the rubel was going to go to trash and it would be all over. but it's it hasn't. and it won't happen. john, go ahead in paris. no, i am great convinced kush i will not lose, but of course you change losing, but it's not good option yet at least you see the frontline move but love not very fast. i mean good that the german line in 1918. they still molly? the trenches war, so i don't know what's going to happen. i mean the west pause more, but more and more weapons there. and i was going to happen, but i'm worried about the intensification of the conflict. now estonia is speaking of blocking the go for finland. if they do that is an act of war, but of course if russians he acted that they would easily over her and they,
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sonya has not the problem. but then it would be another unprovoked digression. again to nato member, article 5, blah blah, blah. and all that they're going to do. and i'm also interested in the internal depression, especially in france, because you may know or not know, but now they have to do the council band. artie france, they have their, their source of funding. i mean, the, the banks cannot pay them and get money anymore, so that the bank cannot be the company, her worker. so you have a 100 plus, a journalist are all on the door the same time. and there is a campaign against them. some people say that they should be verified, they have been working for the enemy and so on, so forth. i mean, the attack on r t, france are just unbelievable and leave a message out. it is not unbelievable because they don't believe in free speech anymore. that is something they don't care about it, but the grade, $68.00 newspaper liebherr i saw which dealer surgery allowed 60 there. they are
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coming back to right for them. of course, violently until russian editorials. i mean, does joe newspaper was the 1st the most vicious against our tea and wanting to bank at ease of really, you know, he in 60, they say is forbidden to forbid the now of course it's compulsory to for been there is really amazing. or how did the change of the situation? yeah. and then and then of course, yeah, i mean, after the bending of a fee for me that me just having of course, been our tv. we see not as influential as he used to be. now he says there should be a good type, you know, after the war cry been of course of the election needed, but also for the good of a dozen. there includes adjournment, my job, the job, you're making my point year. let me go back to joe here. tribunals, all of these things are, i mean there's, there's no pretense of trying to find a solution to this conflict here. there is actually, there is one though, go back to december 17th, 2021. that's what russia wanted. it was made public and it was brushed off. those
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still though those demands are still there. and that's your starting point. if you want to have negotiations, but i think we're going to get the same exact responses we did of this time as we did then. joe, want to the move. in april there was an opportunity. there was an opportunity for negotiation might then, and ukraine would have come out a lot better shape course. they would have had to agree that crimea dumbass were part of russia and not join nato, but of course, united states and britain would burst. johnson and forefront prevented that negotiation and they will continue to prevent that if bach, mood falls, or when it falls, that could be an opportunity then to enter negotiation because that is a very symbolic battle going on right now. but i don't think that's going to happen because the west wants this door. busy to continue with the grave danger that it could escalate to yes, the ultimate conflict. and that could be the way the war ends were all dead. and this is why the west is playing with fire right now. they will not accept that.
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ultimately, they will have to agree to those treaties, or some form of that that they will have to accommodate russia. security interests, like the o. s. he said like the, the hell thinking records. this is something that even micron and shows at least that early on in the conflict, we're making some noise about until america told them to shut up basically. so, what is the only way to do it is to get a negotiation. i don't know whether russia's interested at this point in a negotiation really don't know exactly what they're all well, and i just like joe, i think i can answer that a little bit least. my observation, i'm going to john here. well, why would the russians go into negotiations with anybody in the west? they're been lied to left, right, and center for years. why would you even contemplate talking to these people? know what's going to happen is political facts on the ground will be made. john, go ahead in washington. you're exactly repeated. you can't, you can't trust anything that the west says because everything has been
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a lie. you know, we say this here all the time. the russians have the several different times just in the most recent history of trusted, the west, to be honest in their negotiating points. and they've never been honest. you know, we hear a lot to peter here in the united states about the russians being willing to fight to the last ukraine in. well, i would say that the truth is that it's, it's the americans and nato that are willing to fight to the last ukrainian. we hear in the news every day here about tanks, rate all the news over the weekend was about tanks. tanks, tanks, tanks aren't going to change the course of this war. the ukrainians can't win this over the long term. the only way that they could is with direct nato intervention. and that just simply won't happen. in the end, we're going to see the destruction of ukraine. we're going to see the destruction of the ukranian government. and we're going to see the, the movement of the ukranian people out of the country unless they agree to sit
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down in the russian, just as the russians asked many, many months ago and negotiate a dia, well, you know, all i can say about the, the ridiculous tank conversation, they will, they all mouth the same way gentlemen. they all know the same way or a gentleman. i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on the end game. stay with our team ah ah, with
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. the claims of the king of the belgians leopold the 2nd to the congo were finally authorized by the leading european countries in 18. 85 in the very heart of the african continent. a state under the rule of the belgian monarch was declared since the beginning, the congo free state was total, may him for the local population and functioned as a universal concentration camp. the majority of the population, including women and children, were forced to work on the rubber plantations. those who failed to fulfill their quota were beaten and mutilated. to keep the congolese people under control, the king set up the so called for spook leak,
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which were punitive detachments that cast terror on the captured country and its inhabitants. fearing that their subordinates would simply waste bullets hunting for wild animals, the officers demanded that the soldiers gave an answer for every bullet used. and as proof presented a chop hand of an african. it was not uncommon when trying to justify the use of the ammunition, the colonist amputated the hands of not only those who were dead, but also of those who were kept alive. the atrocious exploitation of the congo turned into a real genocide in only 20 years. the policy of the belgians led to the death of nearly 10000000 people alongside the holocaust, that genocide of the congo population is considered to be one of the grimmest pages in the history of mankind. ah, welcome back to cross hawk where all things are considered. i'm peter,
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let's remind you we're discussing the in the game. ah. okay, so let's go back to john then in paris. you know, if we look at all of the recent controversy and we can go back to russia gate and we can go back to our perceptions of the 2020 election in the united states. we and all the things floating around the, by the ministration right now. and then of course we have ukraine and it, they all have one thing in common, bad and flawed narratives, create bad outcomes, bad policy outcomes. and we're talking about in this program possible and game negotiations. but if i go to our guest in paris, well, any negotiations with the russians is munich. it's munich every day at munich. ok. how do you get out of that called the sac? because, you know, the, it's giving moral justification. field politics is not about morality. it's not
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about values, it's about power. okay? but the west will always co mingle, all these other ridiculous things and never really get to the heart of the matter. as i said in the beginning of the program, if you want peace then work through that prism. they refuse to do it because every day is munich. go ahead gentlemen, paris where. busy is certainly that in germany, for example, the if day is warning against sending trunks. duquesne, saying that the last, and it did it, they mean 4145 in the end of their he will. and in france, the people who go themselves found a freshly said no, no, because i mean, no, no because of the german pass the message to thanks because the new hiccup is of course, put in. i mean, it's completely ridiculous, you know, a long time ago. and they come in a storm me that the one with central ship, if you sensor audio this audio hopefulness. then when you make a mistake, there's nobody to tell you. and that's exactly what the west is doing now. but basically shutting down old versus and i gave the example of
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r t after you have to hold a man, i know many journalist from after you there was no portion of within the just wanted to get, give a job where giving you the information that people do on the, on smaller websites, but then of course, those people have too big for money and they don't get paid. and when you were for the same work where you were being paid the difference. but these people are not poor, poor hush. and he tried to do that. no, and then i have no say one of them, they will not know what the problem. i mean that it's not about being pro russia anti russia pro, put, why don't you have a debate about the issues? that's all i tried to do on this program. ok. when you get, you know, you can just sent all you want. you can tell me anything you want. we barring swearing at me and i don't really care because it's your opinion. let me go to jo. jo in washington alexandria, excuse me. joseph morale, the vaunted e u foreign policy chief. he said something very curious the last few days he
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said, you west asked as a war ukraine big, but respect russia because russia defeated napoleon and hitler. so that's why the western support, ukraine, i mean the, the, the lack of logic and clear thinking from these people is really astounding. i mean, their foreign policy chief doesn't know history very well that makes him, you know, a person to, to, to talk about the entire blocks security future with its neighbor. it's extraordinary. the lack of merit and competence. these people have jo, you know, sometimes these people that are held up in the media as being great. leaders are not very smart as it is pointed out that the ones who are smart know exactly what they're doing here. and i think there are smart people. yeah. in you at leadership who know exactly what they're trying to do, this is for the u. s. the opportunity they've wanted ever since put in came to
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power and yeltsin was gone and they lost control of russian society finances, resources. this is what they want to get back again. but we have to understand that the, the leaders themselves may be self deluded. they, they've created a credible psy up, and they may be victims of their own psy up. and that's what is so frightening about this, that the escalator nature of the u. s. position at the beginning. it was biden who said clearly, no, we're not going to get nato involved. we're going to stop, you won't be able to attack crimea. we're not going to send them weapons 2nd reach into russia. this keeps changing. and this is what so, worrying right now. so that the ultimate scenario, what could happen would be the, the ultimate end game, which is the end of the world. and i don't know whether this understanding is enough person like an alina bet, burbock the foreign minister of germany, for example, or even joe biden anymore. i wonder if they would know the fire that they're playing with here. and the only negotiation right now could stop this, although i just could go on for years. and if it goes on for years and it could
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lead, as i say, to the absolute greatest nightmare of history. you know, judge, i saw john, i thought john nodded his head there. go ahead. tell me why you're not even jo. it's speaking. go ahead. well, i had to just right. and you know, i think that the west should pay very close attention to a tweet from former prime minister. meant that if on friday and, and a statement just yesterday or day before, yesterday by the chairman of the duma, russia will not lose this fight period. this is an enormous country, it's a nuclear power. ukraine is an existential. we hear a lot of comparisons here in the united states to the u. s. fights in iraq and afghanistan, there's nothing similar. there's nothing comparable between us and afghanistan, and iraq and russia and ukraine. and it's because you've crane is directly on russia's border. it's an existential threat. and because it's an existential threat, russia cannot and will not lose this fright. i think that's something that the west
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just simply doesn't understand and appreciate it because they're, they're, they're, they're, they're blinded by their own ideology about their own moral virtue. it's really bizarre when they're putting the entire fate of humanity. i am based on their per self perception of their virtue versus versus to the other. meaning the russia or i me, could you go back to brow the garden and every in the jungle. ok. that's how these people take very the neo colonial and away shown. you know, we're talking unfortunately in some sense apocalyptic lee here. but before we get that, the u. s. pays almost nothing. it's not losing troops. it's making a lot of arm sales left, right, and center. and europe is, is paying the price on almost every single way. i mean, we talk about, and i'm, i, it's true truly saddens me the suffering of ukrainian people because this conflict should have been avoided. it was avoidable, but i, but i love europe just as much,
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and i just see europe paying the cost, you know what, you know with the, the germans, the french now are announcing 40 percent increase in defense spending. yeah, well you had your welfare state because he didn't have to spend so much on the military. okay. yeah, that's all going to go away. your civil liberties are under challenge. you been talking about our to you, france here. i mean, you know, for all your of supportive of ukraine, what to get for it. what's a, get? nothing, but just nothing. and nothing but indirect eleanor janae's declares has been totally bought. they do united states. that's what the girl was saying. you know, the girl said that the way the americans do they give you the back of a whiskey bottle. they send you a seminary in the united states or her dinner berries or something like that. and that's the way the correction goes in. the whole class has been corrupted beyond believe, i am absolutely baffled to see how a case of in peerless master used to say these people are becoming their complete
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lack isn't united states. and so because it's freedom is democracy and so did not inquire about any lack of democracy or freedom in energy st. and the, the there i stood, he believed that politicians like shows and maybe my car are not as extreme as they seem. and there are other sci fi as the media, but they're constantly under pressure from their media. oh, on the gains in germany, the teams are just unbelievable. they're the most warming party that you have a washout issue. you know, i mean, i don't want to ask anybody their age on this program, but i do remember when that greens were very, very different in the 1980s. again, i will have new a special program on that because i don't know what the hell happened to those people here. but let me, let me go to to joe. i'm john brought up something. i think that's really important . sergeant schultz, as i referred to him on this program and micron. they have, it's very interesting, i'm glad you brought this up because if you listen to them closely,
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like on even days supposed to odd days, they talk about after the conflict, what has to happen? and they get shut down in many or a we're in the same speed to the but we're 100 percent behind ukraine. you know, whatever it takes. but both of them are actually thinking about after the conflict, which is very interesting to me and they have their i on washington at the same time. jo ann, well they, these are the 2 who could have provided the bug leadership that was needed to avoid this conflict. and instead they, as john pointed out, they get brow beaten, they get bright. i'm not saying macanna, ange and shots were bright, but that's is the european political class. this was europe chance also to be independent of both russia and china and the united states to stand on its own. and they blew it as well. they have become more and more of a vessel of the united states than ever before. and this is one of the great tragedies that we've seen on following up to the point where their own interests, the interest of their own people. and they have to win elections of being hurt so
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badly. it started way back in 2014, when germany was forced by the u. s. to put sanctions on russia back then, and the german business been more crazy. they didn't want it then. and merkle went along and did it anyway, because the americans wanted to and they were listening to her telephone. so she probably knew that. so, i mean, it's a tragedy all across the board here. and unfortunately, this conversation hasn't changed my mind one bit. i don't see any way out of this. i only see things getting much fright more frightening and more dangerous. every day. this conflict goes on. i agree with you and, and john, you know, you know, being an american living in america, the, have, we have reached a peak zalinski yet because, i mean it's, it's truly extraordinary. i've never, we thought, you know, we thought the, you know, the drive to the iraq war was like, you know, the, the, the, the greatest propaganda gambit of all time. this has to take that cake. i mean, it's extraordinary. when i talk to people, the lack of knowledge, we have,
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you know, when the catastrophe hits no one in america or virtually known in america is going to know why. go ahead, john. peter, you can buy. is the lensky action figures in stores now? that's how we've reached the point of, of ridiculousness that you can buy a zalinski action figure to have as a souvenir. you know, one of the things that has surprised me from the very beginning of this conflict is that so few americans recognized what was behind it. the united states cannot maintain it's, it's international. international had gemini, when there's a strong russia and a strong china. yeah. it would have to destroy one in order to focus on the other. and i think that's what we're seeing here. this is an attempt by the united states and nato allies, to destroy brush out or to bog russia down over the long term in war that will slowly bleed it so that the united states can then focus on confronting china.
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that's why we saw nancy pelosi go to town, one with no complaints for what right. well and john john and kevin mccarthy is on his way here. gentlemen, that's all all the time we have here. but i'll make my prediction at the very end being the host of the program. the end is the end of nato, and that'll be a good thing. ok, i want to thank my guest in washington alexandria and in paris. and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at ortiz. see you next time, remember process ah, ah gracious, which a form of tens of thousands of years can give us important information into our climate and how it has changed over time. and what a scary is our glaciers are melting at an alarming rate. to learn more,
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we came here to mount ellis, to speak to victor couple of years ago, challenges who devoted his entire life to the topic. it is a fascinating, at times dangerous, and very important job a in closer to world war 3. that's the warning from some german politicians, as berlin agreed to send. 14 of is advanced tanks to ukraine. after months of pressure from nato allies, also this hour as protesters clash with police and peru, the controversial new president, it says she's agreed to resign as soon as a snap election can be held. china says the us better mind its own financial problems and.
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