and so you put the garage word, door, gar, law trailer in like an yet stove would actually mr. met with chick you remained silent for a long time and then finally stepped out of the political shatters. and wrote quite a remarkable article for his best yet, because we will definitely talk about that piece because you shared a lot of interesting things. but 1st, i would like to go back a little if i may. the last important to bent that we remember is when you were, it's changed. when you 1st found out the you would be exchanged, that, did you believe it would actually happening? yes. and can you share what he felt that day in more says thought dean lou w. i was long and would say, catherine, naturally i felt a whole range of emotions. wanna him on the one hand and i wanted to believe her. and i did believe that the exchange would really happen as the scholarly. on the

other hand, i had doubts him till the last moment that it would take place of the letter. and i was notified about the sward. on september the 20th 2022. and on the 21st, i was moved around a lot here on the 1st hill, we flew to poland. and i spent year 12 to 14 hours without leaving the plane. i realized that they were negotiating me as i was guarded by officers from the main director of intelligence of the ministry of defense. and the security service of ukraine is ball and they were constantly in communication with some one. what is your tax? what i understood from their communications that the exchange wasn't a done deal with vision. as we learned later, they, these doubts were unfounded when in the past. but the realization that the exchange would really happen came to me when we flew from poland to ankara. yes. washer,

when i saw a russian jet, i knew that it was happening, e l, and of course he said, what i am truly grateful to russia's leadership for this exchange made me, they helped me and my family them for they also, yeah. is it was a very difficult time in my life. i thought of and in the life of my family in ways . yeah. yeah. i think it was the most difficult time in the life of myself and my family. he, by the way, i am thankful that i didn't have to go to the terrible fate. i could have gone through in ukraine that because of the criminal cases against me that were fabricated in 2019 to 2020 alone. in brazil, i would have been sentenced to 15 years in prison yourself. that's what they told me. and i believe they would have done it with the video, even though there were no legal grounds for the prosecution saying as her mother, her saw us. well, you came here after an exchange of prisoners of war. what is your statute now?

what documents do you have? if i may ask who startled myoshi and he is near me a status book goes then you know, greenly on the theater. well, uh my current status is very interesting. i was a citizen of ukraine and remain so i even have a ukrainian passport that an internal one at authority. however, zalinski is determined to destroy me as an opposition politician. any captain is uncompromising fight against me like that. at 1st, he issued a command to continue the criminal cases, investigations, and hearings against mailing. they are continuing with my lawyers are defending my interest in ukraine little place in my 2nd. he made the reckless and even crazy move to strip me of my citizenship, based on the suspicion that i had russian citizenship is also. i have never had russian citizenship and there was no need to because i am ukrainian politician. i was have been, i didn't leave, i didn't give up. if i them, i continued my fight even under house arrest. i kept on fighting even after my

release as a result of the exchange. and these 3 months of long silence, as you said at the start of the interview, the walk, a wolf, i would not call it a silence. has been a systemic effort to help not only ukrainians, but also benefit the interests of both ukrainian and russian citizens kicked him there under the current circumstances, more amid the hostilities and the thousands of casualties amid the destruction of infrastructure. i, while the wall is being waged in ukraine effect, this war is not for you grain. but in the interest of the west, the u. s. the u. k. and many other countries which are settling their scores in russia, i think so. they have made ukraine of the war under lensky government, a kind of testing ground, either or a launch pad in their standoff with russia. yes, as up. and so have spent all these months putting a team back together. a lot of people came from kia villainy is many people are outside ukraine of like in russia, euro the poly war, turkey, them,

that they are ready to continue to fight and have their say, give me samples. i think that's exactly what i laid out in my article concerning the situation which is unfolded what you do. you know, what if i make the case for the voice of another you crying to be heard in russia, ukraine, and the west. and we know for sure the reason or the ukraine like, but war is zalinski claim to represent the united nation. but that is a myth invented out of thin air. this unity has been built on by an exotic authority. he represents ukraine, claiming the ukrainian people come together and stand strong in the anti russian narrative and rabbit ross, a phobia of the world. this is not true. apart from the anti russian voice of life, there are people in ukraine who are afraid to talk about it publicly, but have never supported the nature and dynamic of the relationship between ukraine or russia that has emerged to day. these people ukrainian sapir just like me. i believe it is a direct violation of the constitution holly and to deprive me of my ukrainian

citizenship. but honestly, it's not just my opinion. it is impossible to deprive a citizen of ukraine of his citizenship. he except in the event of a voluntary request, it contradicts not only the constitution, greens, but it also contradicts an international convention which forbid such an act if a person is left stateless as a result of the yeah, initially, grasso ukraine is signed up to this international convention they, despite this at the lens, he continues his efforts to crush his political opponents through political repressions and a legal criminal prosecution is up and yelling. it is a goal that he has set for himself and he's pushing towards it on his graph. the same goes for everything and i've not changed my views either under house arrest in ukraine, lethal her later, or in the custody of ukraine security services. while i was the 6 months the former will represent evelyn. so i continue to fight, i guess for that, and today i want to voice the opinion of a different ukraine. yup. of an opinion which some people are silent about. others

are afraid to express that i want this voice to be heard loud and clear in russia that will read me in ukraine and in the west at the your cousin. there are people who represent different you crazy will carry not the ukraine run by band arrives of the world, the other ukraine, which has nothing in common with the statements and policy of neo nazis. im a thing pursued by zalinski to pay me unless his mom got a repair order. they asked me what was the trust number i like amanda was he said she was handling it soon. know i have that by it says that nor will cry. you know, you are preparing to renew ukraine in your article. you've sat ukraine, the new movement to say that we're, you're against a country becoming a state for jap, political struggle as borg of hooper. when you think that there was to buy prod, you believe you're right, is that there are people who are against zalinski policy, and this of the ukraine must be heard. yes, he pay anything and it can be if it gets representation,

raises its voice. nadia if those who believe in this and are ready to act in that direction, could unite their supporters and say no, we've left you crying. true, but we're ukrainian that we're gonna and we want to think about the future in what could you not the future of a new ukraine as you put in your questions that have about the future of ukrainians . marines yup. and the, and i propose leaving the issue of ukraine's future to one side terrain as ukraine doesn't actually exist today. his soil, yet the goal of, if there is no such state. yes, he said he's, i'm an expert in constitutional law, as it is an after ukraine's constitution says it's an independent sovereign social democracy with the rule of law neared noises. none of that fits without status in its current state, that there is no independent, all sovereign and happiness. dollar witnesses as it fell under the total external control of the west, national, the u. s. on the u. k. in 2014 unavailable. this is not a social state,

but the rule of law look at what's happening there is it wouldn't, yes of media outlets are being banned with no regard for judicial or constitutional procedures. yeah. and then you like one of those who express different opinion or eliminated, thorne, the law is not a real state any more money. it's economy is in shambles. i said to day with the g . d. p is down by over 30 percent of all to put it into perspective. during the world economic crises of 20082009. it was down 14 percent. and it took until 2013 to restore here as a federal student. but i sent them over and they couldn't reach those 2013 figures even in 201921. 0, that'd be erroneous. not really. the economy there is nonexistent. the industrial output is down. 70 percent. unemployment is at 35 percent. he says, but send them. so give me the, not some out, 5 to 60000000 work places and said no, no agriculture, an industry or in decline. prices are growing with her,

but this all means no social programs can be implemented yet. and here's an example of the monthly minimum pension payment is $57.00 that you want him to poverty. threshold is $70.00. when you either have, you can imagine life with a minimal pension and poverty threshold rate seems a little so the state is non existent. and that's because its policies are based on their naziism adopted by zalinski and his clique of october 4th after. but as long as this is the state audiology, it's not simply incorrect to talk about the states future authorities. but if it's wrong, i propose to talk about the future of ukrainians, those to the ukrainians who have stayed in the country and don't agree with the landscape policies. i think the ukrainians, who had to leave for the reasons i've mentioned earlier, and live abroad now in the audience. the thumb is i will as, as political, their stance of disagreement and confrontational, political issues, knees, representation of a yellow stern. this is the gold has been set for the team. i've assembled for

years. so it'll push was that this team is expanding every day of getting new supporters and those who are ready to work towards those goals. gotcha. and explain those things which are destroying the narrative of the western ideology. atoria that has led to this anti russia, hysteria and barbaric ross, a phobia, or even a rhythm, the harmony of the ideology that has created this anti russia and ukraine with its values influence and pressure. he was that to destroy this ideology about what he really that for that we need to reach the people's minds that doughty showed them the truth and reality of what's happening in ukraine today. doubling him. but he has some and after that i see those people must discuss their future of the ocean. we need to talk about the future and demand is future in bravo, e d i as the warfare, but this will only be possible after ukraine. stocks being militaristic, also the country drops its neo nazi policies, the sure where that was under the current circumstances, so that no future ukraine is possible. so happen is that it's unrealistic,

but here the way and it will remain. so if the current policy is maintained upside esl, mika, well, green is zalinski, carries on trying to organize and pick the entire west against russia, with both of the girls and using ukraine as a platform to wage war. in the interests of the west, i see these up because the war in ukraine today is not about ukraine. that, but it is about the interests of the west virginia for example. and he's been wage solely in the interests of the west. and i mean, we need to make this clear to people's up other even can we need to show them the facts to prove it another than if you knew them of i said that is thorn. okay. well, most do you think it's possible to change anything in ukraine? even a new leader is elected another oligarchy, or some one else. will they be able to solve the issue? it's anti russian sentiment in ukraine. was that you live with us? your question contains 2 questions. actually, 2 subtitles. first off,

it is possible to reverse the anti russian sentiments. there are already people in ukraine who don't share them. i can't say how many of it, but i know for sure that these people exist. they are afraid to speak up or do anything because they will be destroyed by the repressive machine. again, this lawless regime that has dismantled democracy, him rule of law, and there are no courts machine. there is nothing for instructions from zalinski and his criminal in a circle. if this can be changed, if we work on it and explain things to people. here is an example williams calling you, let's say a person left ukraine and came to russia. what do you think their views are? do they consider russia and aggressor? him? of course, not. before february 24th, about 2 and a half 1000000 ukrainians lived in russia, studying or working. this is official data. do you think they listen to the lent, his coma left russia and returned to ukraine. catherine, she might be. some of them did with him, but very few of the rest have stayed. and how many 1000000 arrived after february

2014. how may i they were forced to leave a voicemail like, why do i have to forget about my country and he bought the land where my parents are barry to the out of the country to which i have so many ties. oh yes. i was born in russia and we are near crush me, ask if you would, you know, but when i was in 2nd grade, my family moved to ukraine and we have lived there ever since that, oh, it became my country if a fellow and i have done a lot for that country, a deal with when i was a government official, when i was a politician up and i don't consider myself an enemy of ukrainian people with it. well, what if i was an enemy they wouldn't have elected me to parliament. i was elected as an m p 4 times was if i served 4 terms in the parliament. so it can be done with that. but we need to break the trend that started in 2014 lassie, the ante russia strategy here. the escalation of the anti russian hysteria and

boris ross, a phobia. and we can break this trend. yes, i'm sure. now, as for your remark about another oligarch being elected to the highest office states, hold elections that and i already explained g y, there is no state in ukraine right now. what kind of electrons can we talk about? yes, he can schedule an election, but it would just mean that he would appoint himself as president and a point m p 's from his list. when people who will listen to his every word and not think about what he is saying, voted somebody. and most importantly, not think critically about his action that you wouldn't just everything is possible . like the yeah, but this would not be an election. it you? yes. unfortunately, some of our party members switch side less than yeah. and now they support zalinski our enemy, but it does not mean that we should give out. now, as you can see, i haven't given up be, maybe i should just stop story considering my story and everything else that

happened in my life. that i am not going to give out of light, believe that it's possible that was not only that, i think it must be done. i got that with rational a detainer. i got that on with a solid state here. what about a new movement that you rel to power to leal pete? so we will discuss later on what has been the response from the western media? what a wait see, crane under these circumstances. philadelphia in norway appeared in their police. this is a new socio political movement. it is a movement that needs to demonstrate that zalinski is politely speaking wrong. that he claims that he is supported by a consolidated force of ukrainian people. with that, he claims that russia should be destroyed and the west should be part of this effort. welcome to this, i say a government know the other. this is not the real picture. you can again lay require you. we must unite these people and find out what they really think. life

40 resilience for some reason when i am sure that they will stand against the government and against zalinski when they read. this movement will debunk the fact that ukraine has been wholeheartedly backings, lensky and his criminal regime. but she would have loved that's the main goal to day. but as for the specific actions of the social movement, which representative it will choose. that depends. i'm sure millions of people who are in russia and ukraine in europe. these are the millions who disagree with zalinski policies. we need to bring them together, that they need to be united by common ideas that they need to be united by common representation. and then we can talk and argue about the future of ukrainians, and about how they can contribute to day to a bright and trouble free future. as i used to say of him, i admit though it away shut back that it is an uphill battle which, which in loganville. yeah. but do you have a plan like you, me

a yes. the need. i don't have a plan. but plan yes. exactly. when the time comes, and when i see that it's realistic to implement them, i will definitely make them public out of pocket doors. what about your career with you? where are now great in ukraine, of course, lot more or maybe not, but the young pitchers cuz i young this my 3rd, the severe look you. i'm not looking for any positions my wasn't before when i was active, politically, nor to day when i am in russia after 6 months under arrest. yes it was. i think ideas on the main thing to day with several ideas. need supporters. i think leaders will come, i think it was that one. as soon as we have supporters who vailable determine the leader and your place in the official hierarchy. because the big problem in ukraine today, right, is that there are leaders. but there are no ideas that is the problem. this should

be addressed when we are talking about the future of ukrainians over them with the way my war the ship is still there. so what's next? what should be a position did? and he is not enough. what action need to be taken? i've given you an example. ukraine has a leader, but no idea. we have an idea. that means there will be a leader and there will be action. we must make it happen as to how we're going to do it. you will see, but we will do it, or at least try does no doubt about that. so he's nasty article is of her stat. yes, it's a 1st step. it is a 1st step. that's certainly a 1st step for some reason the western movie into that a new article as russian nuclear black meal of europe and the united states. is that accurate? so they are bows up at that the wanted to win. yes, that's what interest to west. most of all, i think it's very important that they heard it because it's my point of view also that we have to move down the path of di escalation. the escalation is possible if everyone's interests are taken into account,

including russia and all other countries, as well as their security interests. or we can continue escalating the tensions which could lead to a world war. because how else can you describe the current situation? when practically all 30 nato countries with including those who only aspire to attain as high status, we are sending weapons and military equipment. you shipping them to the launch pad, not that the west, the u. s. up and the u. k. are renting from zalinski for some reason, this launch pad is called ukraine, and it's all taking place there with a. how else can you call this? this is why i'm speaking about this. because it could all end in a nuclear conflict. we cannot rule that out. seeing as the west now serves as an obedient resource for zalinski, who mentors western politicians in his appeals, instructing them on how to bring their countries to poverty as he is,

how do you cry? now? he inspires the west to wage. a war against russia is that he was urging it to destroy russia, that they must understand what this could lead to. so it wasn't just a random reference. it is my point of view, like mike and i stated it openly by the more and that wasn't the only thing they paid attention to them. i have like the they, they also noticed med read choke, talked about the other ukraine. you might need thought that's very important why this term can be heard in discussions about ukraine. here is med read choking of, of source. and they began to talk here is the government said what almost like in your question, what they will be a government in exile with the government in exile, no problems. and then you, but once established, even if that happens, or has ever happened throughout history, a government in exile always stays in exile. is, has always been this way, he would, and that's not what we need to do. we need to destroy the lent his ideology. he thinks that ukraine is monolithic,

but that every one supports him supports the war, and there's no one who wants peace or a different future for ukrainians. while we believe that these people exist and their ukrainians as well. they have the right to speak their minds. they have the right to be heard when this cuz i little to destin this. couldn't was found that was there before the interview. he noted interestingly that zalinski lessons to the united kingdom even more than the us. why do you think that new? yeah, we're in the switch, them are analysis of the lamb, certain based on the analysis of what's happening is uletha. and the analysis isn't being done now way with during war time on, but began in 2019, especially after his visit to the u. k. and everything else, the u. k is influence is greater than that of the u. s. and the rest of the west is the u. k. that pulls the strings in ukraine and is a major external controller that you might to do. and they know whatever happens. i

mean zalinski and his entourage. amy, they'll be fine. no matter what happens in ukraine. they'll leave and lead a com life. that's why they so calmly let their country be torn apart and fall into further poverty by the name. they let it become an arena for a stand off between russia and there, where testing him as though i sees i flung book aqua, and what was their ply plant again, what at the party were saying? they have only one pan, althea se, fuel processes that could weaken russia and its leadership. i see you as you go. that's the west. same i thought possibly which zelinski and his team are trying to pull off here is i did ask you what, when am i to zalinski you believe kalonski will hall down to tower for la ladia could you want cuz i am restore her missing. i don't know about his fate my had, but i must say, i'd very much like to see him answer for all he's done to ukraine and it's people.

he's destroyed the country. he's thrown it into the fires of war. this is his fault labor. i'd like to remind you that what many have unfortunately forgotten to day over here with her about what had happened just before february. the 24th of will and i am. i gave many interviews while under house arrest him. and i talked about that as well. about the need to avoid war to do everything we can to prevent it. could zalinski have done something else i'm positive. he could have they all a dozen and moreover, he had to bully, keep up with you. he had to follow the mince. go cause i to bore you heard merkel and alons revelations all and, and even polish ankles, trying to play alive on the huffman galvan. and lastly of polish. no one was going to bite and yes, how do you guarantee the next leader won't do the same color. that is, can we have to eradicate the article i wrote focused heavily on causes. they

accounts for more than half of the story. what happened after the end of the cold war, they whiny building something new in the world? yes. and the evolution of those events. so we must eradicate the causes that lead to what we have to day. and this is how we can rule it out in the future. we can only do it when neo nazis. i'm no longer dominate state policies when there is no military state. when people in ukraine, i emphasize again, we'll be able to talk about the future of ukrainians. or not the future of their country. there will be a different future. that is the main area we want to focus on today was honestly okay, an independent ukraine yet? no, i did not say that. i said the future future are ukrainian, the future of ukrainians as to what country and how they will live that shall be decided by ukrainians who represented different ukraine to day with rather spice mister nodded, shook. thank you very much. ah

what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy confrontation, let it be an arms race is often very dramatic. development only personally and getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful. it's very

difficult time to sit down and talk at this hour. american and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm iraq, to free its people, and to defend the world from great pain. who's with we will bring to the iraqi people, food in medicines and supplies. and freedom with

is your media a reflection of reality in the world transformed what will make you feel safe? isolation, whole community? are you going the right way or are you being led to somewhere? which direction? what is true? what is great? in the world corrupted, you need to descend a. ready join us in the depths or remain in the shallows. one cheap energy coming from last year. rush and guess, chip and suppose affordable. and she grew up in the stable which has been

both not the case did is a will that this no longer there a it's a so for me i can't if i need to, should it good. okay. you could to pick the water, bottle of their muslim ship worth of about a new deal, a new one year. both use commercial, mooney, and cookie. probably exclusions like lead memorial show who your cooling, who, your, why do you decide on sanctions, your sanction country? a section of the person, because you want to change the behavior of the government cruise them. why that hasn't happened? sanctions hasn't function a

it's dangerous because of course this means we're becoming a part of the war. you don't save people with tanks, they always say so many people are dying. what do they plan to do at the tanks? protest break out in the german capital following building decision to send the lead time to ukraine, with no calls expressing fair over the countries low in the conflict. oh, a believe recruiting echo hungarians living in western ukraine to fight against russia with mountain casualties already reported.