themselves to death over too soon. but yeah, did make me, it made me the person i am today because i'm afraid i don't give up with anything. investigations were too often handled differently because the disease was indigenous. so many of the worst criminals got away the bishop's got away. the ones who done most of the damage never got charged with liquid, alleging which would all go more challenge hillock and yet still very severe. missed him. edward cheered. he remained silent for a long time and then finally stepped out at the political shatters and wrote quite a remarkable article for his best yet, because we will definitely talk about that piece of because you shared

a lot of interesting things. but, but 1st i would like to go back a little if i may. the last important event that we remember is when you were, it's changed. when you 1st found out the you would be exchanging it. did you believe it would actually happening? yes, and can you share what he felt that day in what says gordon. flood, believe mrs. long m m would say category him. naturally, i felt a whole range of emotions. one o him on the one hand and i wanted to believe and did believe that the exchange would really happen as the scholarly. on the other hand, i had doubts until the last moment that it would take place is of the letter. and i was notified about the sward. on september the 20th 2022. and on the 21st, i was moved around a lot, yet only at 1st we flew to poland. and i spent year 12 to 14 hours without leaving

the plane. so i realized that they were negotiating. yes, i was guarded by officers from the main directorate of intelligence of the ministry of defense and the security service of ukraine. and they were constantly in communication with someone. what is your box, what i understood from their communications, that the exchange wasn't a done deal with you written as we learned later things, these doubts were unfounded when a person, but the realization that the exchange would really happen came to me when we flew from poland to ankara. yes. wilson, when i saw a russian jet, i knew that it was happening. the land, of course, is the summit. i am truly grateful to russia's leadership for this exchange meeting . they helped me and my family. they also yeah, it was a very difficult time in my life. i thought it and in the life of my family in ways . yeah, i think it was the most difficult time in the life of myself and my family. it,

by the way, i am thankful that i didn't have to go to the terrible fate. i could have gone through in ukraine that because of the criminal cases against me that were fabricated in 2019 to 2020 all of them. but i would have been sentenced to 15 years in prison itself, and that's what they told me. and i believe they would have done it yet with a video, even though there were no legal grounds for the prosecution. yes, one more there. i saw lots of, well, you came here after an exchange of prisoners of war. what is your statute now? what documents do you have? if i may ask, was that awesome johan, give me a suttles bill goes the, you know, greenlee on the theater. well, my current status is very interesting. i was a citizen of ukraine and remain so i even have a ukrainian passport, in fact, an internal one at the board. however, zalinski is determined to destroy me as an opposition politician any aka,

in his uncompromising fight against me from like the 1st of yet he issued a command to continue the criminal cases, investigations and hearings against me when they are continuing. my lawyers are defending my interest in ukraine a little later. you, me a 2nd. he made the reckless and even crazy move to strip me of my citizenship. based on the suspicion that i had russian citizenship is old for. i've never had russian citizenship. and there was no need to because i'm ukrainian politician. i was have been, i didn't leave, i didn't give up it with him. i continued my fight even under house arrest. and will i kept on fighting even after my release as a result of the exchange? you'll have and these 3 months of long silence, as you said at the start of the interview, the will go wolf, i would not, coolly a silence has been a systemic effort to help not only ukrainians, but also benefit the interests of both ukrainian and russian citizens. christian that under the current circumstances,

more amid the hostilities and the thousands of casualties amid the destruction of infrastructure i, while the war is being waged in ukraine effect, this war is not for ukraine. but in the interest of the west, the u. s. the u. k. and many other countries, which are settling their scores with russia ringing. so they have made ukraine toward under zalinski government, a kind of testing ground either or a launch pad in their standoff with russia. yes. as up and so have spent all these months putting a team back together. a lot of people came from care villainy is of many people are outside ukraine of live in russia, euro the poly war, turkey, them, that they are ready to continue to fight and have their say, they give me samples. i think that's exactly what i laid out in my article concerning the situation which is unfolded what you, what if i make the case for the voice of another you crying to be heard in russia, ukraine, and the west. and we know for sure there is another ukraine like by the war zalinski

claim to represent the united nation. but that is a myth invented out as denay. this unity has been built on by an exotic authority represent ukraine, claiming the ukranian people have come together and stand strong in the anti russian narrative and rabbit ross, a phobia of the world. this is not true apart from the anti russian voice, unless there are people in ukraine who are afraid to talk about it publicly, but have never supported the nature and dynamic of the relationship between ukraine of russia that emerged to day these people ukrainians, or just like me, i believe it is a direct violation of the constitution robbie and to deprive me of my ukrainian citizenship. honestly, it's not just my opinion. it is impossible to deprive a citizen of ukraine of his citizenship. he except in the event of a voluntary request, it contradicts not only the constitution, greens, but it also contradicts an international convention, which forbids such an act if a person is left stateless as a result. and for yeah,

the she grasso ukraine is signed up to this international convention. this, despite this at the lens, he continues his efforts to crush his political opponents through political repressions and a legal criminal prosecution is up and yelling. it is a goal that he has set for himself and he's pushing towards it on his graph. the same goes for everything. and i've not changed my views either under house arrest in ukraine when he's like any other or in the custody of ukraine security services . where i was the 6 months, the former will of everything going. so i continue to fight, i guess for that. and today i want to voice the opinion of a different ukraine. yup. of an opinion which some people are silent about, others are afraid to express what that, that i want this voice to be heard loud and clear in russia, decorate me in ukraine and in the west at the your cousin. there are people who represent different ukraine. ac walkering, not the ukraine run by bounder rights of the world, the other ukraine, which has nothing in common with the statements and policy of neo naziism,

pursued by the lensky japan me on. this is what got over what is it asking me to what was the trust? my brother commander was if sat you the sand, latino. i have that by it. is that, nor will cray. you know, you are preparing to renew ukraine in your article. you've sat ukraine, you the new movement to say that here you are against the country becoming a stage for jazz political struggle as borg. oprah, when you see, because the rubies to played broad, you believe you're right. that there are people who are against zalinski policy, and this of the ukraine must be heard nancy by anything. and it can be, if it gets representation, raises its voice moodier. if those who believe in this now ready to act in that direction, could unite their supporters and say no, what we've left you crying. true, but we ukrainian w, and we want to think about the future. what could you not the future of a new ukraine as you put in your questions a little, but the future of ukrainians? him brains? yup. and live and i propose leaving the issue of ukraine's future to one side

terrain as ukraine doesn't actually exist to day. so yet the goal of, if there is no such state. yes, he said he's, i'm an expert in constitutional law of as it is an after ukraine's constitution says it's an independent sovereign social democracy with the rule of law. weird noises. none of that fits without status in its current state, that there is no independent all sovereign. and a pedestal, a witnesses as it fell under the total external control of the west, national, the u. s. on the u. k. in 2014 unavailable. it is not a social stake with the rule of law. look at what's happening there. it's is it wouldn't yes that the media outlets are being banned with no regard for judicial or constitutional procedures. yeah. that one of those who express different opinion or eliminated thought noah is not a real state any or mother it's economy is in shambles. i said to day with the g. d . p is down by over 30 percent. yet the whole to put it into perspective during the

world economic crises of 20082009. it was down 14 percent. and it took until 2013 to restore it as a federal insurance, but i sent them over and they couldn't reach those 2013 figures even in 201921 though. but said piero, yes, not the economy there is non existent, the industrial output is down 70 percent. unemployment is at 35 percent. percent sure give is not about 5 to 60000000 white places and certainly no or no agriculture, an industry or in decline. prices are growing for her, but this all means no social programs can be implemented yet. here's an example of the monthly minimum pension payment is $57.00, so she would, in the poverty threshold is $70.00. when you either have, you can imagine life with a minimal pension and poverty threshold rate seems a little so the state is non existent, beautiful. and that's because its policies are based on near naziism,

adopted by zalinski and his clique august, the dust of as long as this is the state ideology is not simply incorrect to talk about the states future authorities. but if it's wrong, i propose to talk about the future of ukrainians. they still do ukrainians, who have stayed in the country and don't agree with zalinski is policies i think the ukrainians, who had to leave for the reasons i've mentioned earlier, a live abroad now in the what it's a thumb he said, well as political, their stance of disagreement and confrontational, political issues, needs representation of a yellow stanley. this is the gold has been set for the team. i've assembled with you. so which was that this team is expanding every day of getting new supporters and those who are ready to work towards those goals. gotcha, and explain those things which are destroying the narrative of the western ideology . adora that has led to this anti russia, hysteria and barbaric ross, a phobia ever. even a rhythm napoleon, the ideology that has created this anti russia and ukraine with its values,

influence and pressure. he was that to destroy this ideology. i thought it would it be better for that? we need to reach the people's minds. i thought it showed them the truth and reality of what's happening in ukraine to day governing him. but he has some and after that, i feel those people must discuss their future. elizabeth, we need to talk about the future and demand the future. you. bravo, e d, i list the warfare, but this will only be possible after ukraine stocks being militaristic as well after the country drops its neo nazi policies that were under the current circumstances so that no future ukraine is possible. so happen is that it is unrealistic, like the other one, and it will remain. so if the current policy is maintained up, they are just so you can well green if zalinski carries on trying to organize and pick the entire west against russia. we put a lot of the girls and using ukraine as a platform to wage war in the interests of the west. i see these up because the war in ukraine today is not about ukraine, that,

but it is about the interest of the west virginia for example, and he's been wage solely in the interests of the west. and i mean, we need to make this clear to people's up order even can we need to show them the facts to prove it another than if you knew them. of i said that esther allow crying most do you think it's possible to change anything in ukraine? even a new leader is elected another oligarchy, or some one else. will they be able to solve the issue? it's anti russian sentiment in ukraine. was that you live with us? your question contains 2 questions. actually 2 subtitles. first off, it is possible to reverse the anti russian sentiments. there are already people in ukraine who don't share them. i can't say how many of it, but i know for sure that these people exist. they are afraid to speak up or do anything except because they will be destroyed by the repressive machine. again, this lawless regime that has dismantled democracy and rule of law. and there are no course machine, there is nothing but instructions from zalinski and his criminal in

a circle. if this can be changed, if we work on it and explain things to people. here is an example williams calling you, let's say a person left ukraine and came to russia. what do you think their views are you? do? they consider russia an aggressor? of course, not before february 24th, about 2 and a half 1000000 ukrainians lived in russia. studying or working. this is official data. do you think they listen to zalinski is comb, left russia and returned to ukraine? the jacob, her own, she may be, some of them did with him, but very few of the rest have stayed. and how many 1000000 arrived after february 2014, how near they were forced to leave a voiceover? why do i have to forget about my country? and he bought the land where my parents are barry to the out of the country to which i have so many ties. oh yes, i was born in russia and we are near crush me. ask if you would, you know, but when i was in 2nd grade,

my family moved to ukraine and we have lived there ever since that, oh, it became my country yet a fellow. and i have done a lot for that country. a deal with when i was a government official, when i was a politician also, but i don't consider myself an enemy of ukrainian people with it. well, if i was an enemy, they wouldn't have elected me to parliament. i was elected as an m p 4 times was if i served 4 terms in the parliament, so it can be done with that that. but if we need to break the trend that starts in 2014 law, say the anti rush strategy here. the escalation of the anti russian hysteria and boris ross, a phobia. and we can break this trend. yes, i'm sure. now, as for your remark about another oligarch being elected to the highest office states, hold elections that and i already explained g y, there is no state in ukraine right now. you know, what kind of elections can we talk about? yes, he can schedule an election. but it would just mean that he would appoint himself

as president an a point m p 's from his list. when people who will listen to his every word and not think about what he is saying very summer, and most importantly not think critically about his action that you wouldn't just everything is possible. like the yeah, but this would not be an election. did you? yes. unfortunately, some of our party members switch side less than yeah. and now they support zalinski our enemy. but it does not mean that we should give up. now, as you can see, i haven't given up, or maybe i should just stop story considering my story and everything else that happened in my life. that i am not going to give out of my believe that it's possible that was not only that. i think it must be done. i got that with our tional at the senior. i got that on with the salus. 30th. what about your new movement that you rel to pat illegal, pete? now we will discuss later on what has been the response from the western media.

what awaits c crane, under these circumstances, when they hear it no way appears than their police, this is a new socio political movement. it is a movement that needs to demonstrate that zalinski is politely speaking wrong, that he claims that he is supported by a consolidated force of ukrainian people, is that he claims that russia should be destroyed and the west should be part of this effort of i bought a gun to this, i say there would be no. you have actually this is not the real picture that you gave may require. we must unite these people and find out what they really thing, right? 40 resilience for some reason when i am sure that they will stand against the government and against zalinski when they read this movement will deep bunk. the fact that ukraine has been wholeheartedly backings lensky and his criminal regime. but he will have one that's the main goal today. as for the specific actions of the social movement, which representative it will choose. that depends, i am sure,

millions of people who are in russia and ukraine in europe. these are the millions who disagree with zalinski policies. we need to bring them together. he's not they need to be united by common ideas even that they need to be united by common representation. and then we can talk and argue about the future of ukrainians within and about how they can contribute to day to a bright and trouble free future. as i used to say of him, i admit though, the way she thought that it is an uphill battle, which, which in loganville. yeah. but do you have a plan to let you me a yes the need. i don't have a plan. but plan is that when the time comes and when i see that it's realistic to implement them i, i will definitely make them public out of pocket doors. what about your career? would you wear a no crane? any crane of course, lot more or maybe not, but the young pitchers cuz i union us,

martha rellis, if you look, if i'm not looking for any positions my wasn't before when i was active, politically, nor to day when i am in russia after 6 months under arrest i think i did on the main thing today with federal ideas need supporters. i think leaders will come up with that one. as soon as we have supporters when they will determine the leader and your place in the official hierarchy. because the big problem in ukraine today is that there are leaders, but there are no ideas. that is the problem. this should be addressed when we are talking about the future of ukrainians over them, the way my watership is to that. so what's next? what should be a position did, and he is not enough. what actions need to be taken? i've given you an example. ukraine has a leader, but no idea. we have an idea. that means there will be a leader and there will be action. we must make it happen as to how we're going to do it. you will see,

but we will do it or at least try. there's no doubt about that. so he, there's the article is a per stat. yes, it's a 1st step. it is a 1st step that's certainly a 1st step for some reason the western movie into that a new article as russian nuclear black meal of europe and the united states. is that accurate? so here are doves up at that the wanted to win. yes, that's what interest the west most of all, and i think it's very important that they heard it because it's my point of view also that we have to move down the path of de escalation. the escalation is possible if everyone's interests are taken into account, including russia and all other countries, as well as their security interests. or we can continue escalating the tensions which could lead to a world war one. because how else can you describe the current situation? when practically all 30 nato countries with including those who only aspire to attain as high status ascending weapons and military equipment,

you shipping them to the launch pad. not that the west, the usaa and the u. k. are renting from zalinski for some reason, this launch pad is called ukraine, and it's all taking place there with a. how else can you call this? this is why i'm speaking about this. because it could all end in a nuclear conflict. we cannot rule that out. seeing as the west now serves as an obedient resource for zalinski, who mentors western politicians in his appeals instructing them on how to bring their countries to poverty. as he has helped dounia cray. now he inspires the west to wage a war against russia. if that were urging it to destroy russia, they must understand what this could lead to. so it wasn't just a random reference. it is my point of view, like mike and i stated it openly by them. and that wasn't the only thing they paid attention to them. i think of it. they also noticed med read chuck talked about the

other ukraine when you thought that's very important. why? yes, this term can be heard in discussions about ukraine. here is med venture in of us and they began to talk here is the government said what almost like in your question is what they will be a government in exile with the government to next. all right, no problem. thank you. but once established, even if that happens, or has ever happened throughout history, a government in exile always stays in exile. is, has always been this way he would and that, that's not what we need. we need to destroy zalinski his ideology. he thinks that ukraine is monolithic, but that everyone supports him, supports the war, and there is no one who wants peace or a different future for ukrainians. while we believe that these people exist and their ukrainians as well. they have the right to speak their minds. they have the right to be heard when his, cuz i hadn't to destination. there was one that was there before the entity you

noted. interestingly that zalinski lessons to the united kingdom even more than be less. why do you think that new? yeah, we're in the future, them are analysis that the lam certain based on the analysis of what's happening is the only thing and the analysis isn't being done now way with during war time on but began in 2019 especially after his visit to the u. k. and everything else over with the u. k is influence is greater than that of the u. s. and the rest of the west is the u. k. that pulls the strings in ukraine and is a major external controller that you might video. and they know whatever happens, i mean zalinski and his entourage. amy, they'll be fine, no matter what happens in ukraine. they'll leave and lead a calm life. that's why they so calmly let their country be torn apart and fall into further poverty, or the least, they let it become an arena for a stand off between russia and away listening him as though i sees i flung book

aqua. and what was the reply blunt again? what that the pretty of us the you, they have only one plan. now. this stand off was meant to weaken russia, what every packet of and today we are seeing this happening very well, yet not the victory of ukraine was it. but we will know is impossible due to certain objective reasons, once they get a song. but it could ignite an internal struggle usa in m latiere se, fuel processes that could weaken russia and his leadership. i see you as you go, that's the west. same i thought possible, which zalinski and his team are trying to pull off here is i did ask a walker. when am i to zalinski? you believe kalonski will hall down to power for la nike or get you on because i am restore her. me as if i don't know about his fate, maria, but i must say, i'd very much like to see him answer for all he's done to ukraine on its people. he's destroyed the country. he's thrown it into the fires of war. this is his fault,

slavery. i'd like to remind you that what many have unfortunately forgotten to day, already with about what had happened just before february. the 24th of will. and i am, i gave many interviews while under house arrest him. and i talked about that as well about the need to avoid war to do everything we can to prevent it. could zalinski have done something yelled, i'm positive. he could have they all a dozen and moreover, he had to bully, keep up with you. he had to follow the mince because i to, for you heard merkel and alons revelations all on and even polish ankle is trying to play a life on huffman galton. and not way of polish. no one was going to buy 10. yes. how do you guarantee the next leader won't do the same color. that is, can we have to eradicate the article i wrote focused heavily on causes. they accounts for more than half of the story. what happened after the end of the cold

war there when the building central nearing the world? yes. and the evolution of those events. so we must eradicate the causes that lead to what we have to day. and this is how we can rule it out in the future. we can only do it when neo nazis. i'm no longer dominate state policies when there was no military state. when people in ukraine, i emphasize again, we'll be able to talk about the future of ukrainians. or not the future of their country. there will be a different future. that is the main area we want to focus on today was honestly okay, an independent ukraine. yet i did not say that. i said the future future are ukrainian, the future of ukrainians as to what country and how they will live that shall be decided by ukrainians who represented different ukraine to day with rather spice mister needed a chick. thank you very much, lou.

a from since come up with a with what's wrong with somebody to love with this machine. yeah. yeah. yeah. i want with why did think i've got that up with the word mad that up way. anything that i will be that was an awful lot to

shift from up in things you could see it was much our because up with not mitchell, i says it was off with ah, the claims of the king of the belgians leopold the 2nd to the congo were finally authorized by the leading european countries in 1885 in the very heart of the african continent. a state under the rule of the belgian monarch was declared since the beginning, the congo free state was total, may have for the local population and functioned as a universal concent camp. the majority of the population, including women and children,

were forced to work on the rubber plantations. those who failed to fulfill their quota were beaten and mutilated. to keep the congolese people under control, the king set up the so called for spook leak, which were punitive detachments that cast terror on the captured country and its inhabitants. fearing that their subordinates would simply waste bullets hunting for wild animals, the officers demanded that the soldiers gave an answer for every bullet used. and as proof presented a chop hand of an african. it was not uncommon when trying to justify the use of the ammunition, the colonist amputated the hands of not only those who were dead, but also of those who were kept alive. the atrocious exploitation of the congo turned into a real genocide in only 20 years. the policy of the belgian led to the death of nearly 10000000 people alongside the holocaust, that genocide of the congo population is considered to be one of the grimmest pages

in the history of mankind. with mm ah, ah, ah .