ah ah ah ah hello and welcome to cross top, were all things considered. i'm peter lavelle. ukrainian officials in their western backers endlessly tell us that ukraine is experiencing extreme shortages of just about everything. however, there is no shortage of shameless propaganda generated for western public

consumption. and it should be no surprise. ukraine is as corrupt as ever with cross stocking propaganda. i'm joined by my guess. wyatt read in washington. he's a journalist, was boot nick news in o. hi. we have oliver boyd barrett, he is a professor emeritus of journalism and public relations. and while in green state university, as well as the author of russia, gate and propaganda. and in quebec, we crossed to dmitri last caught us. he is a lawyer and freelance journalist or a gentleman crosstalk roles in effect. that means you can jump in any time you want . and i always appreciate oliver. you're the expert in propaganda on this program. somebody go to you 1st and bless. you come from one of the most beautiful cities in america, oliver, i sent out to you an article that up a political, published by the foreign minister of ukraine. now he has every right to his opinion . there's. i have no problem with that. it did say opinion here, but it's really quite bothersome that an outlet like political would give such

prominence to an an op ed that is demonstrably false on so many different levels here. you know, it will win another foreign leader, right? something like that for political. there's pushback, there is analysis, there's a counter argument not in this case here, it is taken as the gospel and what they were. and the reason why i wanted to focus in on it is that this is such a disservice to the public that the, the war aims of this of america as war aims, it. nato's war aims here are so opaque and it's just, it's, it just flooded. drowning in propaganda. oliver, your thoughts? well, my main thought about propaganda at this juncture, the conflict is to that sense. so solid op since the all of sunday the ukraine has now acknowledged that there has been a growing symmetry as it were between the western media

and the russia with respect to what is actually going on in the graph. because for a long while, a survey after the all of us to rusher sierra done asked of this, he chanced for quite a long while. a western media were totally focused on the hockey fan down the s on ukrainian counter offensives. and glorifying these as though these were, is represented a major, a setback to russia's interests in this conflict and the purposes of the s m. o. but all of a sudden it seems to me, we got an interesting convergence as to what the basic facts of on the ground are on the battlefields. i mean, to say, even though of course, a, the, a western may remediate have a totally different interpretation of what those are,

those facts, a signifier, however, is it's for sure. there is a far deeper sense of gloom right now in western mastery media about ukraine. but instead of moving from a position of gloom to concluding that this is a fight that better now beat, negotiated, that they are simply escalating purposely mindlessly without it, without a sense, a clear sense of direction. but without a clear sense of a plan, all they can think of is weapons and weapons, and more weapons, even though are actually running out of well, many of the essence, you're absolutely right. dmitri, let me go to you in quebec here i, i've been following the whole tank story here, and i don't take it very seriously. never once that i can see in western media, have they ever mentioned the number of tanks that russia house? ok, and if you compare the an upper dansing's with what 12 they want to send or 31 or

whatever it is here. i mean, obviously, and it goes in line with what oliver is saying here, that this is for the score, some kind of temporary propaganda victories here. but these tanks that they're talking about whenever they're going to show up. nobody knows. it hardly is going to make any impact is i think the foreign ministry said here that these tanks will melt like the rest of them. go ahead, dimitri. well, absolutely, the tanks. first of all, you're getting new technology delivered to the battlefield. so there's going to have to be extensive training done. it's very difficult to, you know, fight as a unified fighting force when you're basically, you know, operating with a frankenstein, of an army with different types of weapons. employing different types of technology requiring different tried types of training. so quite apart from the small number of the tanks relative to russia's military assets, this is going to real, real challenge logistically and how are they going to be serviced?

are they going to be sent back to poland or they're going to be sent to slovakia? remove from the battlefield and they're going to require high levels of servicing as all tanks do in a battle field environment. what i think is really interesting about the timing of this politico propaganda piece from the foreign minister is that your risk appear to put out a poll. and there's been other polling like this done in europe, which showed that 48 percent of citizens and 9 european countries, including germany and austria, favor a quick end to the war. even if ukraine has to give up territories to achieve peace . while only 32 percent declared themselves against territorial concessions to speed up peace, i'm sure that the ukranian government is cognizant of the mood, all the growing impatience in the west with this war. when they see numbers like that, it is undoubtedly alarming to them because without the support of the west, let's be clear economically and militarily, it would be over and ukraine would be field status does this. i think this is really a sign of the desperation of the ukrainian government is that it comes out just

a series of fictions about minsk in order to justify its intransigence and with respect to negotiations. yeah. they, you know why we had they be very eminent, qualified individual by the name of analise bare voc. she is the german foreign minister. how she got the job is a mystery to me. but she said, quote, in the last new cycle, germany and it's all eyes are fighting a war against russia. i thought nato wasn't involved in this conflict here. that they were noncombatants. not that i thought they weren't co belligerence in this conflict, but the foreign minister of germany. but the mask dropped. go ahead, wyatt. it's all out in the open. now. they certainly can't pretend as they have been for the previous year, almost that they are actually just helping out these lucky ukrainians to pursue their goals of self determination. now i think it's increasingly clear, but this is in fact

a proxy or the nato has been waging against russia for some time. with respect to this op ed, you were referencing early, i tend to agree with the previous test that this does and showcase the desperation that companies now be increasing unpopularity of their position on the regional and global stage. i mean, just reading through this it's, it's basically a series of projections of basically inverting reality on its head. i mean, you can read an individual census from the inception of the mist agreements. moscow was preparing for a full scale war on, on ukraine. no, that's why the opposite is true. we know that from admissions recently by angela merkel, francois alon former german chancellor, a former, a french president. that means was actually an attempt on the part of the ukrainians to to basically re arm themselves and maintain

and enhance their fighting capabilities. they had no intention of pursuing a peaceful settlement. we see other, other claims in this op ed about russia doesn't negotiate in good faith. we know the opposite is true, you know, in april, for example, or is johnson was sent to convince the ukrainian regime that i believe the actual book from ukrainian source was that even if you crane is ready to negotiate with russia, we the west or not. and that was, that's been the reality ever since the indians haven't been allowed to negotiate. ready because the united states, the united kingdom simply will not let them rest of this is the same way. it is all basically rejection, inverting reality. and that's all i would, i would argue, and an efforts to wrap up these, these really kind of gloomy looking whole numbers. i want to in the 2nd part of the room. i talk about corruption a little bit here, but i'm going to go, go back to oliver here. i want to go back to the lead bed box statement germany and

its allies are fighting a war against russia. well, if that's the case, then, doesn't russia have the right to fight a war against nato? i mean, if they, if they, you know, the gloves are off, the mask is dropped. i mean, they're fighting russia as a, as a military alliance. then russia is obliged to return the favor. i mean, she's, she's the one the declared war, not russian. go ahead. it is extraordinary. and it is disturbing not least, the extent to which the german administration is clearly running against and has for a long time now. been running against the interests of his own people. this applies to european leaders in general, but it applies prince very much to germany. and it became amazingly apparent with the destruction of the north stream, one in which of course,

a germany was a major player, made a major contributor. and instead of showing real any real interest at all in investigating, i think most of us, i have a clear sense of who was behind this because who was behind us behind this told us what they were going to do before the war started. so instead of showing a real interest in who was actually attacking german interests, attacking german economic interests and who was depriving a germany of cheap of it, of its dependence on get rid oliver, we have to admit the germans are complacent in their, in this themselves. i mean, i mean the blowing of the north stream a pipeline, i guess we'll never know. i, you know, it's kind of like, you know, jeffrey ab steen is kind of like the january thinks bomber, you know, there's no interest in these things whatsoever about what binding, you know,

it's some kind of conclusion to it. and it's really interesting is that after, after the explosion, you know, there was a lot of media coverage from it. radek sikorsky of, of poland was very happy about it. and then it was a is, if it's almost as if it didn't happen, nobody is looking with the exception. is that sweetest intelligence is there really, mom? they won't tell anybody what they found. and, and it, because they won't tell anyone what they found because russia didn't do it in they know that, ok, that's what, what drives their silence. who are gentlemen route coming up to a hard break, and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on propaganda. stay with auntie ah ah,

at this hour, american and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm iraq, to free its people. and to defend the world from great who's with we will bring to the iraqi people, food and medicines and supplies. and sleep with places which are form of a tens of thousands of years can give us important information into our climate and how it has changed over time. and what a scary is our glaciers are melting at an alarming rate to learn more. we came here

to mount elbows to speak to victor propose that he is a gracie ella, just who has devoted his entire life to the topic. it is a fascinating at times dangerous and very important job. welcome back to crops that were all things are considered. i'm peter, let's remind you. we're discussing propaganda. ah, okay, we go back to dmitri and go back during the break. right? yeah, i can meet you said he wanted to make a comment on the comments that i need a better box made. the german foreign minister go ahead dmitri. it could be, i mean, miss bear buck as many of us know as a german green. as a, as it happened in 2020, i ran to be the leader of the green party of canada after serving and shadow cabinet is the justice critic i, i finished and 2nd place with 45 percent of the vote. i've been active in green

party politics for 15 years and i know intimately well with its core values are. one of them is non violence. there was a remarkable update in the german feminist magazine. an interview actually recently called emma outside the mainstream, where a retired brigadier general by the name of erik vod, criticize the german government's approach to the war and identified the german green party with disbelief as the new party of war, not just in germany, but in europe miss bear barker recently came to montreal. busy and was hosted by canada's foreign minister. i went to see this event and interrupted her in the middle of her speech. to point out that she has fundamentally violated the core values of the green party by pursuing the path of violence and war to an even greater degree than any but he in mainstream german politics. so i think it's actually a disgrace. i think that we really should question those of us in the global green movement. what is miss bare box true agenda, who's interest or she is she actually serving?

has she any devotion whatsoever is of the core values of the green party? and i think that the answer to that is a resounding no. well, in jamaica, also, she's the same person that said she didn't care what her. her voters thought of her, her policies. well, visa be great. she just completely dismissed it. not only, i mean, i think oliver and i are in the kind of age group, the, remember the greens and the 1980s that wouldn't betray any ages here. but i mean, not as a transformation that is, you know, we got to do a separate program on that because that's just so extraordinary about change here. i kind of like the green from the eighty's to be honest with you, and i'm a pretty conservative guy. wyatt, i want to change the subject a little bit here. when the, the big tank discussion was going on, raging. there is a major blow up in camp when it comes to corruption, which of course, before february 24th of last year, ukraine was the most corrupted but country in europe. and then bear to let 10 months it got it disappeared. and now it's coming back here and, you know,

as it is been lensky shamelessly a davos. you know, we're, we're open to western big business. come in, exploit does come on. i mean, it's really, you know, this is, he's prosecuting his own country. ok. and then you have these, all these reports about corruption, and one has to wonder, you know, it starts at the top and goes all the way down. and those of us that know ukraine. i've been there many, many times, very few people on mainstream tv talk about ukraine and they don't know the 1st thing about it. ok, and one thing i can tell you, i live in russia, corruptions a problem here. russians blush at the corruption and ukraine, go ahead. that's right, the scandal that you're referencing really the core of the corruption and our endemic this. this is now and ukrainian society. i mean, when we remember what preceded this event was in the immediate days prior to the,

to the semester getting basically embroiled. and it's huge reception scandal. we saw how the warranty adviser, like the rest of which forced out of disposition. and then the next day we saw the entire leadership of the interior tier ministry di and an extremely suspicious helicopter crash. we saw a speculation from some russian leading sources that they were, they were basically trying to wet their whistles, so to speak, on some kind of corruption that the defense ministry had going on. and then they met with an untimely end. as a result, obviously, this is speculation, i can't prove any of it, but the timing of all of this is extremely suspicious. and anybody who spent any time in eastern europe will know that there, there is quite likely a little bit more to the story than is mediately obvious. yeah, oliver, they did, they, this whole corruption issue is very, very sensitive for the powers that be in the west. because we all know the problems in western countries are facing inflation open,

borders and things like this is all a crime and a lot of other things that are happening. and as usual, the middle class is being crushed in the endless crushing of the middle class. ok, and then there pouring tens of billions of dollars into ukraine, and remarkably, don't have to be held accountable. there are no audits, you know, that's, that's what, that's a prudent talking point. an audit here really, really is that a talking point here over, that's what makes this problem property. underwear. so pernicious is that you can even ask a simple question. okay. and the lensky i would point out is going to be a very, very lonely man very, very quickly. because he knows the knives are out for him. that the next few weeks and months are going to be critical. ok, go ahead oliver. yes, i think he probably is in great danger, but if he gets out in time, will also be an extremely rich man, as i believe a lot of other people are going to be extremely rich. how could they not be, given the extraordinary flow of resources and money into a ukraine,

a lot of which is going into very dubious places all of these weapons that are being sent. many of them that are not a russian artillery will end up in the will. that will end up at the hands of russia. they will, they will end up in the hands of a more worrying groups in other parts of your apps, even terrorist groups of the armaments industries will be extremely satisfied in particularly the united states and, and in europe. just quickly going back to this issue of corruption, i mean, corruption has always been a feature of post soviet ukraine. it was these that the pretext for the could a tower in 2014 the maiden for testers that started off as a, as an anti corruption demonstration. that was then taken over, as we know, by the,

by the underwriter, by the stream, the nazi right wing. and then for all the talk about corruption, but we find in the surveys the year or so after the data does just as much if not more public concern about corruption. ok, i already oliver. can you, can you spell hunter biden? ok, that's my point. ok. i would, i would wager i would wager a lot of money. the corruption is far worse now than it was in 2014 continue please . so and then so then ski in 2019, he comes in on 2 main tickets. one is empty corruption, and of course that hasn't happened and the other one was goes, he's going to bring about peace. so how much trust can you put in a man who tells you that he's going to be fighting for these 2 things and clearly achieves neither and doesn't? it doesn't do very much it,

but it is this recent scandal to do with corruption. i don't think is to do with corruption. i don't have the evidence, but i would wager it seems to be very strange that at this point in the conflict us lensky, i would uh, initiate an anti corruption campaign and be getting rid of people in the wake of william burns as the chief of ca, with just a week ago, it seems to me, far more likely that we have some kind of power struggle going on in ukraine. it has been suggested that one reason for this our struggle might b u. s. pressure to move the ukraine administration more away from the influence and a manipulation of the british, which has been considerable as we know from forest johnson's history making peace, impossible in ukraine, moving it away from you. k control to us control. i'm not sure that i believe, but i am pretty dumb. so this is not about corruption. this particular incident was

a, it's a very, it's a very good point here. i mean, again, you know, of a, the ukraine's foreign policy and the security policy is made in washington primarily that would though with a london involved and war solid level at lou lou side of that dimitry, i were rapidly running out of time here and going back to the whole tank issue here . for me, it's not about the number of tanks. i think it's superfluous here, but it is an indication that the u. s. wants to escalate because that's what it means escalation. ok, and what if you can send tanks and you can send planes and then you know what, i mean, mission creep here and, and, and as the, the russians are preparing for their offensive. amy, it's widely known. they're trying to make some kind of propaganda victory out of getting more involved because what they're sending right now, if it hasn't helped them that much to this point, i certainly can say i was going to happen to help them in that moving forward. go ahead. dimitri, well, i mean that they've seamlessly transition from talking about main battle tanks to f sixteens. that is now a matter of 24 hours from the capitulation of germany,

to the incessant demands of the neo cons for more weapons to ukraine. now they're talking about aircraft that are going to escalate the battle in the aerospace and i think that the probably they're gonna end up getting f sixteens. this is we are on the ladder of escalation, which will potentially end ultimately in nuclear war. and this is to me is the thing that's most shocking about the german green party is that it is, this is a party that was founded on the principle of opposition to nuclear armaments. yep. and to know, and it has become the statistic of the spear in western propaganda towards escalation. so it's an extraordinarily dangerous situation, which at the end of the day, i mean, you can see even it's gotten so bad in the mood, the head that even u. s. government officials are coming out and telling the american pressed that there, urging the ukrainians to withdraw from a portion of the battlefield where they have suffered probably tens of thousands of

casualties in the doomed effort. so the but the realities are heading into opposite directions. one is escalation and the other is the defeat of ukraine. and at some point, these 2 realities are going to converge and clash and, and it's going to be an absolutely politically devastating moment for those people in the west who have been cheerleading this war from day one. ok, why we have one minute left before we and the program here, i have to wonder what the pentagon is thinking, their f sixteens in their abram tanks. they've never fought appear power. they've always been fighting sheepherders in camel herders. in the middle east. i have to wonder what the pentagon's really thinking, because destroying those tanks will be really easy because russia has control their space. 40 seconds to you, my friend go ahead. well, this entire endeavor from part of the west is always in, at least in part, an effort to recycle their old military hardware. to get a chance to see how it matched up against russian equipment on an actual battle

field. and obviously to launder out the tax base of the american citizen, back through these weapons manufacturers and in the hands of this trans national lead, i think they're very pleased in some regards to how things are gone. but obviously, you know, i think we're playing extremely dangerous game here. yeah. well that they're there, they're playing foot loose with an armageddon here. and again, i think, you know, all of, and i would probably know better. there are there to guess here we remember those days. remember talking about that incessantly. and here we are again, repeating history that we shouldn't have been the 1st place here as all the time we have gentlemen, i want to thank my gets and watch and go back. and oh ha. and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here to see you next time. remember rostock with ah

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