actually, we have a, at a loss and you know, it is again, this new miss it in a fine, a group of 30 all the a civilian vehicles and i want to shoot so yes, a tragedy. but obviously 2 very brave young men. do you have a contract with the ukranian government at the moment? i know that you were hoping for one. no, not at all. we're almost a year into the wall. and we're doing this purely on a on don't a funder. so yeah, so the motor group, obviously famous in even a donation media partner, because it's ironic reference to the russian wagner group which you just reference that what, what exactly is it, i mean, was it wise to call it after you're being composed given i'm going to say that you

like the wagner group. i mean, clearly the wagner group is a lot of weapons. that is a great question. and actually i, i had to think in a sense it was, but you know, we weren't really making very liberal for long decisions back in march. we were training guys in a hurry to defend here. someone came out with the name the most our group and had already kind of gain fraction and yes, in retrospect, absolutely because we, there is no comparison between us and about in a group. absolutely not at all. you know, i've already outlined on missions. we also train ukrainian soldiers close to the front line with an organization that does this union, the only organization that does this move behind the front line within uh, refund, so that we can, we so that brigade miners can rotate that guys through our training courses. so you

would have for the ranger, you're very different from the british ranger regiment, which is seen as a kind of a grouping or formation to rival wagner in 5th is well, you know, and it really all depends on how the range arrangements. mission is aligned if it is the training and advice and assist, which is how i understand it. that's not on what we do. because we must be doing training. we really aren't doing advice. and this is actually way you know, in combat. our way where we run the most risk are in our evacuation operations where we're running into, you know, trying to literally areas that are parallel to fall under heavy rush, not to retire. in some cases, surrounded on 3 sides by the russians, as we didn't see, chance can pull it off and recently, or places around. are we going to bring people out and to let you minutes

turn spice to water is, remember, none of these play. all these people in these places are living in basements, again, under constant constant, are to refine. it is a risk them to go above ground to get anything that sustains life. they have no electricity and the temperature, the freezing cold. there are only people, there are plenty of children to. it is, as you know, the russia, as you know, the russians deny any targeting of civilians and i presume to this would say they've been suffering it since 2014 in don bass. i just want to get to something about your book when the temperance gathers, if anyone thinks you're some crazy, new york on the border of donald rumsfeld, that book, why did you write that book? and you said we've had decades, a strategic failure and no learning from those at the top of nato. nato military is what, why have you been such a critic of the, was you fought in iraq, afghanistan?

i know you share to platform with former disgrace at the ca, david address, only the other day. you're happy this book is out there and it's clearly shows the frontline, co face of fighting during those was and, and also arguably showing why why us forces they to a nation forces were defeated in these different campaigns. yeah, i mean, that's a great question. i do, i need the fact that i need to defend it, my country or my country's military, but you know, that didn't take away the right once i retired to, to be able to criticize and hopefully, constructively, because i'm looking to a better future in this case. or at least address some key points. and i did some in the book, you know, that was not i, i felt that on the ground understanding are,

are, you know, in the initial and we just initial nation that in both cases there was a subsequent kind of deterioration of any coherent campaign plan that match an overarching policy and i think that's kind of under now. you are going to have in that kind of stuff. that is a problem given spoken to tony blair clearly lately maybe that's why you're not getting the funding. in fact, because you've attacked it was on terraces so much. why do you think that in the wagner group itself and russian media has been saying, actually, mozart is not the humanitarian type of group that you're describing. and even in nature, nation media, they misconstrue it. i suppose from your, do you see it comparing yourself? you know, the way you did this information was here is absolutely huge. so not a private military company. you are not a mercenary army. oh no, i mean, i mean,

they're not by, not by anyone's concept. any common concept at the time, we don't train weapons when all the findings, we're training all and we're waiting and seating civilians. that is, you know, i'm on to all of us here in the leadership. adamant about that. so we, yeah, we were and of course, of course, you know, to be for most of the war we received great press coverage. you know, unfortunately be going through painful or painful period. here with a former business partner who's motivations were very different than the rest of the boss and was hoping to make money out of the most subgroup is now suing the most pain. him the money that's for b as much as you're going to hear about it. a little too, but that is, you know, that's the crux of that. and of course, you know, the media comes on in the united states, you can, for, if you've got, you know, one of the content, just tracing lawyer and the payment of money and you say come up with 15 or 16 of

the worst things you can thing to scatter sky me and that is on a scale of the companies and that is what he has done. so you know, he's lost a law since it has no operation to all. it was certainly not. you know, what i tell the guy says hello. we had them all on the inside. we had a guy who i should've gone in with, you know, i'm privy to, trusting loose. let's move on. you know, let's learn from all these, all these mistakes. yeah. i mean, i'm not going to get into the litigation and you know, honest to me as far as the media. i'm not going to, you know, to, to lay out the case against this particular guy. because that's not the form i want . i want to legal. i want to do this legally and conclusively troll and i mean we invite vein on, but i mean i just, i just because it's a subject of litigation. he said,

i'm not going to comment on pending litigation. recent person comment, ensure defamation will be a much larger part of the proceedings. i have no russian investments. i suppose so, obviously the big story that was covered around around the world was you're saying it's humanitarian aid and you're helping training. you did say on camera, hopefully you contributed to russian deaths. so obviously if you're a part of the global south that sympathizes with moscow in this situation, if you are in russia, you're going to go, well, you know, he is the head of the mozart glueck group saying hopefully we contributed to russian deaths. yeah. ah, i, you know, i can look that same and that, yeah, i mean, because, sadly in this war and, you know, you do them all to you any more actually tend to, it tends to be, you know, them all the other streams. you take off the playing field of the chessboard kill

because the less dangerous to your own guys, your own country. you know, so we can dance around that. but why we train guys. it isn't simply to defend themselves. that is to kelly. and i mean we're, we're professional, so just by background, there's no reason to live at this. you know, the best form of defense is office seminar, just train these guys literally to, to defend their families. we've got to train them to do more and, and it was a bit like sounds, it sounds a bit like the european union, the us going where it is applied to the web. the thing that we live, that everything, everything we're doing is exactly within the parameters of u. s. u. k. data policy. there's nothing that we are do. i mean the, the west is providing ukraine with lethal weapons. right?

they kill russians. why they doing that? it's not, you know, it's to kill russians. so we can dance around. you know, this, this phrase ology, which is unfortunate. i don't like using the term kill, you know, it's much more, it's much nice to say expel russian and beta, which is all true. but weapons are designed largely to kill people. and when we train soldiers, that is, that is say, gall and anyone who thinks and there is another goal to military training or other goals. but there is no other on central goal, perhaps more important than that. so we teach him how to shoot the weapons, understand what they're getting asked, but we also teach them how to look after themselves had a treatment so that, that wounded how to treat comrades and, you know, i mean, we, i tend to emphasize more the lives we sit eve than the lives perhaps we contribute to ukrainians taking retired gun. i'll stop you there more from the us marine corps,

former deputy special operations commander in the ukrainian capital after the spring. ah ah, lisa hunter, russian state little never. i've stayed on the northland scheme, devastation american house once a week, within the 55 with speedy with. we will van in the european union, the kremlin media machine, the state on russia today, and sports marquee spook neck, given our video agency,

roughly all band on youtube and with a, with welcome back to going undergrad. i'm still here with retired gun landry milburn ceo of the mozart group. and for me, deputy commander special operations gone central in the us marine corps in the book or at the road when, when the tempest gathers, you talk of your mother being in the red cross. i don't know what whether that's some kind of inspiration due to the activities. i mean, do you think she thought that the allies committed to invasion the crime of

aggression when the allies invaded france and i do 40 for oh, no, no, no, no, show, no, no. i mean, right? think about that generation right. so they, ah, to be also small. i don't think this. i mean, the alleys invaded france, that was a sovereign nation that had been invaded by the germans in yes, there was a fishy government, but it was not a either the like grain has been invaded by nato. after. no, no, no. they did by nato. well, there was an american back who wasn't, we have that phone call of the could give you don't think the government of ukraine since that who has been illegitimate since then. and maybe that's why the global south seas and of the u. n. didn't vote with you and an american powers to condemn the russian invasion representatives representing most of humanity in

the un. yeah, i mean i, you know, i listen in india and i can only tell you what my, where kind of my moral compass lives. and i mean, i know because i've been on the other side and arguing about the invasion of iraq, which i think is a great, you know, it's a great example on that. you know, obviously you can, you can make an invasion look legal problem. but bottom line is, and this is a, this isn't about training russia in my mind, you know, it's a big picture, right? it's about global norms. sure thing, and it's about balance of power. it's about you said it's about newton is not about ukraine. it is not who to you know, so pension to yes, obviously i'm in, houston is not an extraordinary. and i mean, an a positive. i mean, he's an anomaly. one with right in late 20th, 21st century,

a guy who has committed a seal, russia in a way that russia has not been since under stalin. know even the latter, you know, the last days of the soviet union can see, i think, i like best and minister only this week was visiting south africa for the joint military drills between the south african army and the russian army and russian forces. they've obviously, we're doing massive military drills in the pacific with china. bricks has never been strong of the shang, i. cooperation organization never stronger the whole of latin america, africa, se asia are all doing deals with russia. how do you mean hermetically sealed? russia has never been more open to me as reflect low currency. yeah, no, i'm not, i'm not talking about, i'm not human insights overseas. i'm talking about russian societies being a medically seal or from, from an informational contact with the outside world. you know, i,

i don't think that i don't think that so i can for sure if you have a state that's controlling, not just the media but also to an extent social media say that is banning any expression of descent about the war with for, i mean you, if you went to the university where my father was professor, i got to say in britain, it is illegal. you are under threat of sanctions. if you mentioned that there's a nazi as of battalion entire television channels from the chinese, the radians the russians are banned in britain. if you look at press conferences in moscow, you see, sky is report is asking questions. you go to a 5 star hotel, moscow. the most good times are sitting on your table in your bedroom, selling you put in as a war criminal, just about in britain, every new paper, every journalist, every politician in congress, in the british parliament, whether you grant the belgian yeah. no, there's a frequency on the end,

you know why? i'm not going to push back with you because i haven't been to russian and for me would be a good idea for me to go on. so, you know, if what you're saying, but newspapers in hotels, i would ask those just privilege hotels. but, you know, clearly my point is, this is, i mean very clear. this is an unjust war. and, and, and then, you know, the end, clearly to the, the regime has, has taken a policy that has almost offensive towards its own, its own people buying, you know, shutting down any dissent at all. why would, why would any country, you know, i know, i mean, this is a discussion, but you know, why would it, why would you outlaw the st. within, within russia? they've often said that he was under puter was under pressure from the left in his country for years as the shelling and the killing of thousands of people in don't best to do something like this. and he didn't, he trust the min minutes records. but the boy is, and i mentioned

a very quickly by it's bar i police compare the numbers are on suppose a russian affiliated ukrainian nationals who are killed every year from the ukrainian showing 2014 through 2022. and then compare those numbers for the 1st 23 months of the law. and i think you'll find that the, the evidence on best suffered far more on the russian and asians than they have it from ukrainian shine or in the war before. but as to what you actually are doing there in ukraine, you're continue our help anyway. no, really. i mean, we had 1st hand footage. i mean, if you look at cnn or the b, b, c, before arguably they were got that they were showing the casualties in the dorm bus . but i don't wanna go too much back of a history about it because we are them in hong. i mean that you're saying that it's

a bit like the spanish civil war and the global south, and the clearly the russian see it as your help and your humanitarian help is prolonging the war. russia will eventually win. and except there's something different about this war because russia is a nuclear power. so the more you helm the ukrainians in their war effort, you increase the chances of armageddon as outlined by the bulletin of atomic scientists. it's not quite like the spanish civil war. it's not quite like any other war. you're putting the whole world at risk, the more you help the ukrainians are before their inevitable defeat. wow. you know, i have heard that argument before, and i think, i think i could understand some of it way back in february or march when it really, i mean, i mean to, i thought the russians are going to want, you know, and i might even have argued although i would find it hard to argue, hey,

we should support them because it's better to spread the mandate often than a mandated. but there's a couple of, you know, there's a couple of points that one is that you've totally, you know, it's a great question, but i think you've alert the question of human dynamics. right? so, you know, the, the, the on predictable aspect of ukrainians, especially as the weapons colonel, if a, from a to hadn't poured weapons written and bored weapons in the, if there would be not one weapon sent to ukraine. after putin in russia's view, defended the people of the dom bus. finally, after a years of provocation, then the war wouldn't have been. one of the war would be over. very, very difficult to argue that counterfactual would it, wouldn't it. and all i can tell you is this ok, i think i do understand your line of questioning. i'm just saying that no,

absolutely don't buy it. and it's not because i'm emotionally ready to this wall is the fact that, you know, it's a west can benefit far more. i just simply embracing the prospect ukrainian victory with nothing, nothing to lose or risk. and i'm not sure. let me grania victory is you have, you have identified who to know what the main reason you think booted is mad. i mean, you've, you've identified putin. you said it's not about ukraine. is all about russia so much. you love the russian people, you love the training people and it's about getting beaten is mad because obviously, you know what i'm going to say if you do. and that is, they have nuclear weapons. mad stands for mutually assured destruction. this is not like any war you personally have fought in and documented. they have caliber missiles, they have tactical nuclear weapons, as well as strategic nuclear weapons. some people around the global south who don't

support you or the european union or the united states. the majority of humanity, arguably, gonna be asking, what is the mozart group doing? you are increasing the chances of the deaths of every one on this planet. we will 1st of all, i think that, you know, i understand the logic chain, but that's a very long chain. ok, well, we are only a button in the kremlin. we are here to improve ukrainian soldiers chance of survival on the front line. now you can, you can draw kind of a cause and effect chain i as, as you know, people on the west has and they tie themselves and not about, oh my god, what will cause putin to escalate to nuclear? what, we don't know, right? i don't know if he's mad. what i, what i do when i, i don't, you know, he is the most our group are pushing the world closer to unit the new and new base. i think this honestly that it's very far fetched a concern. of course, it's

a concern, and i don't have, i don't have any soothing words to people who are concerned except the same thing on the ground or the west helping ukraine is very, very unlikely to push to tend to, to net. you know, i want isn't just me saying that isn't just my opinion. if you read most, i say experts, but you know, the think tank is to have a long time to study this. and i do, well, we're not going to get to think of the fact we did the wrong. no, it wasn't effect change. i mean, devil's advocate either way. we were, you know, you're in there and you're in there. you know that there was a good you're active in that cause and effect change. but isn't that the problem of cause and effect change in the was you 14, whether it be have canister, with american arming of the merger, dean that returning to al qaeda and $911.00, the creation of ices and die by the iraq conflict. isn't the whole point and the

failure of military strategy, the, you're right about in your book precisely, this failure of comprehending cause and effect. and the fact that you may be creating a nuclear complex are all of course, and any more, you know, once you get to wall all bets are off as far as what the outcomes are. as far as i mean, we see, you know, that was my point. iraq, afghanistan, i'm not making a decision to go to war. i'm running an organization let's, let's get this back in context. i'm running an organization that evacuate civilians who don't want to get killed from the homes that are getting destroyed and we're feeding and providing sustenance to other students. we're also training ukrainian soldiers who haven't received adequate training in order to, to at least enhance their longevity on the battlefield. right. s. i, there is nothing in that that brings my conscience. i gotta tell, you know, i, if i lay awake at night long enough and i could draw a thread between those actions and nuclear war in the end of the world. maybe that

would be the case. but if i could join that fred, i would never join the michael, i would never have to plot each one of the comments on, you know, so i guess what i'm saying is, i'm not, i'm not doing anything that you have to say i'm but you know, we were going to make our own decisions based on facts and rational analysis. and that's what i feel that i have done, but clearly so help funding it. god help your funding and i know you, you need funding. you want funding that you are recorded as saying ukraine is a corrupt job society. ukraine is in violation of a convention that they shouldn't be filming prisoners of war for propaganda purposes, a killing russian prisoners of war. do you not think obviously, lensky biden blink can the whole lot of them probably so knock in london, probably. schultz in berlin. they're all saying no, with any hundreds of billions of dollars there. and we try, i mean we,

we, you know, i talked about this earlier with your guys about that the interview was as you know, it was the car. it was taken out of context, my voice and i watched it. i watch the interview on it. was it was produced by a guy named max blumenthal. yes, i'm good. let me, let me get the points that i that i said, yes. specifically, ukraine. what i all i said was saying, yes, ukraine has in the past had a you had a problem with corruption. that's undeniable. all right. and so me, prisoners of all is a violation of the geneva convention. my point is that if you are going to have the moral high ground and you're going to say and, and i'm here, listen, i voted my feet the my lines. so you challenge and you want to say, oh, you know, sport, you crime a convention. i, every day i just, i mean we're going to the end, i should just, i was actually watching the video. you,

your guys put up max blumenthal, editor grays, and said whether it was a whiskey talking randy milburn to learn the video i posted, provides a clear and accurate depiction of his comments on the corruption of the great society, sick leadership and the propensity of its military to commit to videotape battlefield atrocities for its own sake. nobody chasing the ukraine. a gravy train and get back on the wagon. i don't like so. huh. yeah, you're reading from, you know, black's mom. of course i don't agree. some look at his background. all right. i mean, he is a, it is a man. all right. so the point is, why did he also that video? why did he, what i say with contest. ok. yeah, i stand behind a, you know, i love, i love the premiums. i'm here on the risk in my life. you can keep trying maximum is all i me he's, you know, but i, i've, i've so did it was my c no, no in august for that ukrainians have no problem with that video because because they know the nature of russian just information and that, and, and so, you know,

but the point is, you don't support a side by simply spouting propaganda. you've got to be honest and the same with united states. you just talk to me about what i write in my book where i criticize my own administration, my country's administration. this is the healthy aspect of it democracy. all right . you crane is a democracy. united states is marcy, we should encourage criticism, not shut people down because we want to be a better society and ukraine, especially right now and all eyes on the world on ukraine. it's very important that you create the ukranian government act accordingly. i challenge anyone to, to dispute, of course, kind of under milburn. thank you and that's it for the show will be back next saturday 78 years to the day since the opening of the altar conference, also known as the crimea conference with franklin delano roosevelt. joseph stalin, and winston churchill meeting to plan the defeat of nazi germany during the final stages of world war 2. until then you can still keep in touch for social media.

it's not sensitive in your country, but you can always had to our channel going on the grantee on rubber dot com. what's new and old episode of going under grants you very soon? ah ah ah ah ah ah

ah ah, ah, these trenches are maybe about a kilometer away from the lazar were intense fighting continues of speaking. russian military forces engaged and heavy fighting for the city of ogle, adar in the don. yes. region are corresponded is their reporting from the front line. on the trip to south africa, they use foreign policy chief admit that the continent natural resources are a major interest for europe. despite western nation, pushing africa to focus on renewable energy. and are to begin special coverage of the legacy left by the disastrous war in iraq.