that is a great question and actually i, i had to think in a sense it was, but you know, we weren't really making very liberal, prolonged decisions back in march. we were training guys in a hurry to defend here. someone came out with the name the most our group and had already kind of gain fraction and yes, in retrospect, absolutely because we, there is no comparison between us and the partner group. absolutely not at all. you know, i've already outlined on missions. we also train ukrainian soldiers close to the front line, uni, western organization that does this union the, the only organization that does this move behind the frontline, within uh, refund. so that we can, we so that brigade modest can rotate that guys through our training courses. so you and have a for the ranger, you're very different from the british ranger regiment, which is seen as a kind of

a grouping or formation to rival wagner in 5th is well, you know, and it really more depends on how the range arrangements. mission is our mind if it is the training and advice and assist, which is how i understand it. that's not on what we do. because we must be doing training. we really aren't doing advice. and this is actually way you know, in combat. our way where we run the most risk are in our evacuation ration, so we're running into, you know, trying to literally areas that are parallel to fall under heavy rush not to retire in some cases, surrounded on 3 sides by the russians, as we did mr. chance can and recently places around and we know it to bring people out and a few minutes from spice to this. remember, none of these play all these people in these places are living in basements, again,

under constant constant, to refine. it is a written them to go above ground to get anything that sustain slice. they have no electricity and temperature, the freezing cold. there are only people on the 20 children to it is, as you know, the russia, as you know, the russians deny any targeting of civilians. and i presume to this would say they've been suffering it since 2014. and in don bass, i just want to get to something about your book when the temperance gathers, if anyone thinks you're some crazy, new york on the border of donald rumsfeld, that book, why did you write that book? and you said we've had decades, a strategic failure and no learning from those at the top of nato. nato military is what, why have you been such a critic of the, was you for it in iraq, afghanistan? i know you share to platform with former disgrace at the ca, david address,

only the other day. you're happy, this book is out there. and it clearly shows the frontline, cold face of fighting during those was and, and also arguably showing why why us forces they to a nation forces were defeated in these different campaigns. yeah, i mean, that's a great question. i do. i need to thank that i, you know, to defend in my country or my country's military. but you know, that didn't take away the right once i retired to, to be able to criticize and hopefully, constructively, because i'm looking to a better future in this case, in or at least address some key points. and i did some in the book, you know, there was not i, i felt that on the ground, afghanistan and iran, you know, in the initial, initial nation that in both cases there was a subsequent kind of deterioration of any coherent campaign plan that match the

ranching policy and i think that's kind of under now when you are going to have an in that kind of stuff. that is a problem. you haven't spoken to tony blair clearly lately. maybe that's why you're not getting the funding. in fact, because you've attacked it was on dera so, so much. why do you think that in the wagner group itself and russian media has been saying, actually, mozart is not the humanitarian type of group that you're describing. and even in nature, nation media, they misconstrue it. i suppose from your, do you see it comparing yourself in the way this information was here is absolutely huge. so not a private military company or not a mercenary army. oh no, i mean, i mean we're not by, not by anyone's concept, any common concept at the time. they don't try weapons when all the findings,

we're training the all and we're waiting and receiving civilians. that is, you know, i'm on to all of us here in the leadership. adamant about that. so we, yeah, we were and of course of course, you know, to be is for most of the war we received great press coverage. you know, unfortunately we're going through the painful, painful period here with a former business. this motivations were very different than the rest of us and was hoping to make money out of the mozart group is now showing the group and paying him the money. that's as much as you're going to hear about it a little too, but that is, you know, that's the crux of that most. and of course, you know, the media jump on in the united states. you can, if you've got, you know what, i'm calling in tracing lawyer, any payment of money and you said come up with 15 or 16 of the worst things you can things to scatter time and that's all scatter companies. and that is what he has

done. so, you know, he's lost a lot since it has no ration to all. it was certainly not a whole, but you know, what i tell the guy says hello. we had them all on the inside. we had a guy who i should've on and, you know, i'm privy to trust things loose. let's move on. you know, let's learn from all these, all these mistakes. yeah. i mean, i'm not going to get into the litigation and you know, honest me as far as the media, i'm not going to, you know, to, to lay out the case against this particular guy. because that's not for him. i want, i want to legal. i want to do this legally and conclusively troll and i mean we invite bay on, but i mean, i just, i just because it's a subject of litigation. he said, i'm not going to comment on pending litigation. recent person comment, ensure defamation will be a much larger part of the proceedings. i have no russian investments,

but i suppose so. obviously, the big story that was covered around around the world was you're saying it's humanitarian aid and you're helping training. you did say on camera, hopefully you contributed to russian deaths. so obviously if you're a part of the global south that sympathizes with moscow in this situation, if you are in russia, you're going to go, well, you know, he is the head of the mozart glueck group saying hopefully we contributed to russian deaths. yeah. ah, i, you know, i can look at the same and that, yeah, i mean, because, sadly, in this war and, you know, you do them all to know any more, actually tend to, it tends to be, you know, them all the other streams. you take off the playing field of the chessboard, kill the less dangerous to your own guys, to your own country. you know,

so we can dance around that, but why we train guys? citizens simply to defend themselves. it's kelly and i mean we're, we're professional. so just by background, there's no reason to live at this. you know, the best form of defense is office seminar, just train these guys literally to, to defend their families. we've got to train them to do more and, and it was a bit like sounds it sounds a bit like the european union, the us going, where are you going to supply defense where the thing that we live that everything no, everything we're doing is exactly within the parameters of u. s. u k. they don't policy, there's nothing that we are do. i mean the, the west is providing ukraine with lethal weapons. right? they kill russians. why they doing that? it's not, you know, it's to kill russians. so we can dance around. you know this, this phrase ology, which is unfortunate. i don't like using the term kill,

you know, it's much more, it's much nice to say expel, rational data, which is all true. but weapons are designed largely to kill people. and when we train soldiers, that is, that is a goal. and anyone who thinks that there is another goal to military training or other goals, but there is no other central goal, perhaps more important than that. so we teach them how to shoot the weapons, understand what they're getting asked, but we also teach them how to look out for themselves, how to treat themselves or that wounded, how they treat comrades. and you know, i mean we, i tend to emphasize more the lives we say the than the lives perhaps we contribute to ukrainians taking retired gun. i'll stop you. the more from the us marine corps, former deputy special operations commander in the ukrainian capital after the spring, ah ah

ah ah ah need to come to the russian state total narrative. i've stayed as i'm turning the no santini devastation,

mac ingles also neat within this is beverly speedo keys on i need to bargain speeding help with. we will van in the european union the kremlin. ca, yep. machine. the state aunt rush up to date and split our t spoke neck, even our video agency, roughly all band on youtube and pinterest. and we could come with me. ah, ah, ah,

welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with a retired gun, landry milburn ceo of the mozart group enrollment deputy commander special operations gone central in the u. s. marine corps in the book a erode when, when the tempest gathers, you talk of your mother being in the red cross. i don't know what whether that's some kind of inspiration due to the activities. i mean, do you think she thought that the allies committed invasion, a crime of aggression when the allies invaded france? and i do 44. 0, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. i mean, let's think about that generation right. so they do your, 1st of all, i don't think this, i mean, the allies invaded france, that was a sovereign nation that had been invaded by the germans in yes, there was a fishy government, but it was not a like grain has been invaded by nato after that who

no invaded by nato. well, it was an american back who wasn't that we have that phone call of the qu in kiev. you don't think the government of ukraine since that who has been illegitimate since then. and maybe that's why the global south seas and at the u. n. didn't vote with you and, and american powers to condemn the russian invasion representatives representing most of humanity of the un. yeah, i mean i, you know, i listen in india and i can only tell you where my, where my moral compass lies. and a, i mean, i know because i've been on the other side and arguing about the invasion of iraq, which i think is a great, you know, a great example on that. you know, obviously you can, you can make an invasion look legal problem. but bottom line is, and this is a, this isn't about you trying to rush or in my mind, you know, it's

a big picture, right? it's about global norms. sure thing, and it's about balance of power. it's about you said it's about newton is not about ukraine and it's not who to and to yes, obviously i'm in is not an extraordinary. and i mean a and a positive. i mean, he's an anomaly. wonderful, right. in late 20th, 21st century, a guy who has committed t. c or russia in a way that russia has not been since under stalin. know even the latter, you know, that the last days of the soviet union can see anything quite like this. and minister only this week was visiting south africa for the joint military drills between the south african army and the russian army and russian forces. they've obviously, we're doing massive military drills in the pacific with china. bricks has never been strong of the shang, i,

cooperation organization never stronger the whole of latin america, africa. se asia are all doing deals with russia. how do you mean hermetically sealed? russia has never been more open to me as reflect low currency. yeah, no, i'm not, i'm not talking about, i'm not human insights overseas. i'm talking about russian societies being medically still on from, from, on information contact with the outside. well, you know, i, i don't think that it's, i don't think that. so i'm controversial. mean, if you have a state that's controlling, not just the media, but also to an extent social media state that is banned in any expression of descent about the war with for, i mean you, if you went to the university where my father was professor, i got to say in britain it is illegal. you are under threat of sanctions. if you mentioned that there's a nazi as of battalion entire television channels, from the chinese iranians. the russians are banned in britain. if you look at press

conferences in moscow, you see sky use report is asking questions. you go to a 5 star hotel, moscow. the most good times are sitting on your table in your bedroom, selling you put in as a war criminal, just about in britain, every new paper, every journalist, every politician in congress, in the british parliament, whether you grant developing yeah, no, this is frank points on the end, you know what, i'm not going to push back with you because i haven't been to russia. it probably would be a good idea for me to go on. so, you know, if what you're saying by newspapers and hotels i would ask, are those just privilege hotels? but, you know, clearly my point is, this is, i mean very plain. this is an unjust war. and, and then in the end, clearly to the, the regime has, has taken a policy that has almost offensive towards its own, its own people buying,

you know, shutting down any dissent at all. why with my, with any countries, you know, i know, i mean, this is rachel is also discussion. but, you know, why would, why would you outlaw the saying within, within russia they've often said that he was under putin was under pressure from the left in his country. for years as the shelling and the killing of thousands of people in don't both to do something like this. and he didn't, he trust the min minutes records. but the boy is, and i mentioned a very quickly by it's by police. compare the numbers are ok. suppose in a russian affiliated ukrainian nationals who are killed every year from the ukrainian shine 2014 through 2022, and then compare those numbers to the 1st 23 months of the law. and i think you'll find that the, the evidence dumbass suffered far more on the russian and asian than i have it from

ukrainian shine or in the war before. but as to what you actually are doing there in ukraine, you're continue our help anyway. no, really. i mean, we had 1st hand footage. i mean, if you look at cnn or the bbc before, arguably they were got that they were showing the casualties in the dorm bus. but i don't wanna go too much back of a history about it because we are them in hong. i mean that your saying that it's a bit like the spanish civil war and the global south, and the clearly the russian see it as your help and your humanitarian help is prolonging the war. russia will eventually win. and except there's something different about this war because russia is a nuclear power, so the more you help the ukrainians in their war effort, you increase the chances of armageddon as outlined by the bulletin of atomic scientists. it's not quite like the spanish civil war. it's not quite like any

other war. you're putting the whole world at risk, the more you help the ukrainians ah, before their inevitable defeat. wow. you know, i have heard that argument the song and i think, i think i could understand some of its way back in february or march when it really, i mean, i mean, to my foot, the russians are going to win. you know, and i might even have argued, although i would find it hard to argue, hey, we should support them because it's better to just read the band aid off and then and, and they are. but there's a couple of, you know, there's a couple of points that one is stag, you've totally, you know, it's a great question, but i think you've alert the question of human dynamics. right? so, you know, the, the, the unpredictable aspect of ukrainian is essentially as the weapons colonel, if a from they 2 hadn't poured weapon, britain and board weapons in,

if they'd be not one weapon sent to ukraine. after putin in russia's view, defended the people of the dom bus. finally, after a years of provocation, then the war wouldn't have been. one of the war would be over. very, very difficult to argue that counterfactual would it, wouldn't it. and all i can tell you is this ok, i think i do understand your line of questioning. i'm just saying that no, absolutely don't buy it. and it's not because i'm emotionally ready to this wall is the fact that, you know, it's a west can benefit far more. i just simply embracing the prospect ukrainian victory with nothing, nothing to lose or risk. and i'm not sure. let me grania victory is you have, you have identified who to know what the main reason you think booted is mad. i mean, you've, you've identified putin. you said it's not about ukraine. it's not about russia so

much. you love the russian people, you love the cranium. people and it's about getting booted is mad because obviously, you know, what i'm going to say if you do. and that is they have nuclear weapons. mad stands for mutually assured destruction. this is not like any war you personally have 14 and documented. they have caliber missiles, they have tactical nuclear weapons, as well as strategic nuclear weapons. some people around the global south who don't support you or the european union with united states, the majority of humanity arguably going to be asking, what is the mozart group doing? you are increasing the chances of the deaths of every one on this planet. we will 1st of all, i think that, you know, i understand the logic chain, but that's a very long chain. ok, well, we are only a button in the kremlin. we are here to improve ukrainian soldiers chance of survival on the front line. now you can, you can draw kind of

a cause and effect chain i as, as you know, people on the west have and they tied themselves and not about, oh my god, what will cause putin to escalate to nuclear? what, we don't know, right? i don't know if he's mad. what i do when i, i don't, you know, he is the most song group are pushing the world closer to unit the new and nuclear base. i think this honestly because it's very far fetched a concern. of course, it's a concern, and i don't have, i don't have any soothing words to people who are concerned except the same thing on the ground or the west helping ukraine is very, very unlikely to push proven to, to net a valid one is just me saying that isn't just my opinion. if you read most, i say experts been, you know, the think tank is to have a long time to study this and i do, well, we're not going to get to think of the fact we need to be wrong. no,

that was an effect change. i mean, that will set it either way. way. you're not gonna, you're in there until you're in there. you know that there was a good you're active in that cause with but isn't that the problem of cause and effect change in the was you 14, whether it be have canister, with american arming, of the merger, dean that would turn into al qaeda and 911 the creation of isis and die by the iraq conflict isn't the whole point and the failure of military strategy the you write about in your book precisely this failure of comprehending cause and effect. and the fact that you may be creating a nuclear complex are all of course, and any more, you know, once you go to wal, all bets are off as far as what the outcomes are. as far as i mean, we see, you know, that was my point. iraq, afghanistan, i'm not making the decision to go to war. i'm running an organization. it's, let's get this back in context on running an organization that evacuate civilians

who don't want to get killed from their homes that are getting destroyed and with feeling and providing sustenance to other sit on. and we're also training ukrainian soldiers who haven't received adequate training in order to, to at least enhance their longevity on the battlefield. right. s. i, there's nothing in that that things my conscience. i gotta tell, you know, i, if i lay awake at night long enough and i could draw a thread between those actions and nuclear war in the end of the world. maybe that would be the case. but if i could join that fred, i would never join the michael, i would never have to put the comments on. you know, so i guess what i'm saying is, i'm not, i'm not doing anything that you have to say i'm but you know, we were going to make our own decisions based on facts and rational analysis. and that's what i feel that i haven't done but clearly so help funding it. god help your funding. and i know you, you need funding. you want funding that you are recorded the saying ukraine is

a corrupt job society. ukraine is in violation of a convention that they shouldn't be filming prisoners of war for propaganda purposes are killing russian prisoners of war. if you don't think obviously, lensky biden blink and the whole lot of them, probably so knock in london, probably sholtes in berlin. they're all saying no, with any hundreds of billions of dollars there. and we try it out. i mean, we, we, you know, i talked about this earlier with your guys about that interview was as you know, it was the car. it was taken out of context. my boys and i watched it, i watch the interview on, you know, was it was produced by a guy named max blumenthal. yes, i'm good. let me, let me get points that. i that i said, yes. specifically, ukraine, what i all i said was saying yes, ukraine has in the past had a, had

a problem with corruption. that's undeniable. all right. and so me, prisoners of all is a violation of the geneva convention. my point is that if you are going to have the moral high ground and you're going to say, and i'm here, listen, i don't get my feet and my lines. so you challenge anyone to say, you know, support you crime, a convention i every day i just, i mean we're going to get to the end. i should just, i was actually watching the video. you, your guys would up my flu until editor grays on said whether it was a whiskey talking randy milburn to learn the video i posted provides a clear and accurate depiction of his comments on the corruption of the great society, sick leadership and the propensity of its military to commit in videotape battlefield atrocities for its own sake. nobody chasing the ukraine. a gravy train and get back on the wagon. i don't know. yeah. you're reading from, you know, black's mom. so of course i don't agree from look at his background. all right. i mean, he is a, it is a man. all right, so the point is, why did he also that video?

why did he, what i say with contest. ok. yeah, i stand behind a, you know, i love, i love you training and i'm here. i'm risking my life. you can keep trying maximum . it's all i me, he's, you know, but i, i've, i've, so it was my c no, no, and i was with that ukrainians have no problem with that video because because they know the nature of russian disinformation and that, and, and so you know, but the point is you don't support a side by simply spouting propaganda. you've got to be honest on the same with united states, you just talk to me about what i write in my book, where i criticize my own administration, my country's administration. this is a healthy aspect of it. democracy. all right. you crane is a democracy. united states is marcy, we should encourage criticism, not shut people down because we want to be a better society in ukraine, especially right now and all eyes on the world on ukraine. it's very important that

ukrainian, the ukrainian government act accordingly. i challenge anyone to, to dispute, of course, kind of under milburn. thank you, and that's it for the show will be back next saturday, 78 years to the day since the opening of the altar conference, also known as the crimea conference with franklin delano roosevelt, joseph stalin, and winston churchill meeting to plan the defeat of nazi germany. during the final stages of world war 2, until then you can still keep in touch for social media. it's not sensitive in your country, but you can always had to our channel going on the one tv on rumble dot com, which new handled episode of going on the grantee very soon with who ah, [000:00:00;00]

a pretty common you up with a number. let me know what's going on with some i'd love to listen to seeing you. yeah. you guys might be a good job. why did think i've got that up with

the wouldn't read that way. anything that i beat that was a lot to shift left in. things you could see it was not show up with not mitchell. i speak with the headlines on our team international a 13 year old resident of jerusalem has been identified as the shooter and attack that wounded to people in that city today. so it comes after a mass shooting to the lives of 7 people on friday with an elderly spanish man is arrested and charged with terrorism for allegedly sending mail bombs across spain. spanish court has refused bail on fears. that is online browsing. history may lead him to fleet to russia and here with our team we begin our special