the on your shows and i thank you for inviting me. yes, i did. that's exactly the sort of work that we do and i have a 2 christian injury for and my condolences to their families for all, for the loss and you know, why i feel, you know, you know, i didn't know then we will see a loss of course, because the mission is all important and it is extremely dangerous. these guys were traveling as we all are asking. vehicles are rushing on to refund as fives. and now of course, with increasingly for the last month in our fred, from infiltrating groups we're way behind ukrainian lines such as a group. and so, you know, we don't carry weapons. there's a reason for that. are those there is a purely humanitarian and it puts in, makes this very vulnerable. there is no doubt in my mind,

russian. so targeting evacuation groups, we have a and a and you know, it is again, this new miss it in a find a group of various civilian vehicles and, and i one issue so yes, a tragedy but obviously to very brave young men. do you have a contract with the ukranian government at the moment? i know that you were hoping for one. no, not at all. we're almost a year end of the wall. and we're doing this purely on a, on a funded. so. yeah, so the mozart group, obviously famous in even nato nation media, partly because it's ironic reference to the russian wagner group, which you just reference that. what exactly is it, i mean,

was it wise to call it after european compose a given the going to say that you are like, wagner group. i mean, clearly the wagner group is a lot of weapons. that's a great question. and actually i, i have to think in a sense it was, but you know, we weren't really making very deliberate long decisions back in march. we were training guys in a hurry to defend here. someone came out with the name of our group and had already kind of gain fraction and yes, in retrospect, absolutely because we, there is no comparison between us and about in a group. absolutely not at all. you know, i've already outlined on missions. we also train ukrainian soldiers close to the front line in the western organization that does this union the, the only organization that does this move out behind the front line within uh,

refund. so that we can, we so that brigade modest can rotate that guys through our training courses here for the ranger, you're very different from the british arrange. a regiment which is seen as a kind of a grouping or formation to rival wagner in 5th is well, you know, and it really depends on how the range arrangements. mission is online, if it is training and advice and assist, which is how i understand it. that's not often what we do because we must be doing training we, we really aren't doing advice and assess, actually way you know in, on that our way where we run the most risk are in our evacuation operations where we're running into, you know, trying to literally areas that are parallel to fall under heavy rush not to retire in some cases, surrounded on 3 sides by the russians, as we didn't see. chance can cancel at all. and recently,

places around are we going to bring people out and a few minutes from supplies to this? remember, none of these play. all these people in these places are living in basements, again, under constant constant, are to refine. it is a risk for them to go around to get anything that sustains life. they have no electricity and temperature, a pretty thing called there are only people who have plenty of children to. it is, as you know, the russia, as you know, the russians deny any targeting of civilians. and i presume be to this would say they've been suffering it since 2014 and in don't bass. but i just want to get to something about your book when the temp is gathered. if anyone thinks you're some crazy, new york on the border of donald rumsfeld, that book, why did you write that book? and you said we've had decades, a strategic failure and no learning from those at the top of nato. nato military is

what, why have you been such a critic of the was you fought in iraq, afghanistan? i know you share the platform with former disgrace at the ca, david address. only the other day. you're happy that this book is out there and it's clearly shows the frontline, co face of fighting during those wars and, and also arguably showing why why us forces they to nation forces were defeated in these different campaigns. yeah, i mean, that's a great question. i do, i need to thank that i, you know, to defend in my country or my country's military, but you know, that didn't take away the right once i retired to, to be able to criticize and hopefully, constructively, because i'm looking for a better future in this case, or at least address some key points. and i did some in the book, you know,

that was not i. i felt that on the ground, afghanistan and iran, you know, in the initial, initial nation that in both cases there was a subsequent kind of deterioration of any coherent campaign plan that national branching policy. and i think that's kind of under now. you are going to have an in that kind of stuff. that is a problem. haven't spoken to tony blair clearly lately. maybe that's why you're not getting the funding. in fact, because you've attacked it was on terraces so much. why do you think that in the wagner group itself and russian media has been saying, actually, mozart is not the humanitarian type of group that you're describing. and even in nature, nation media, they misconstrue it. i suppose from your, do you see it comparing yourself in the way this information was here is absolutely huge. so not a private military company. you're not

a mercenary army. oh no, i mean, i mean, we're not by, not by anyone's concept. any common concept at the time, we don't train weapons when all finding we are training all and we're waiting and seeding civilians. that is, you know, i'm on to all of us here in the leadership. adamant about that. so we, yeah, we were at the end of the course, of course, you know, to be, it is for most of the war we received great press coverage. you know, unfortunately we're going through painful or painful period. here with a former business motivations were very different than the rest of us and was hoping to make money out of the most subgroup is now suing them all, paying him the money. that's as much as you're going to hear about the lawsuit. but that is, you know, that's the crux of that whole soon. and of course, you know, the media jump on in the united states. you can see if you've got,

or you know what i'm calling in tracing lawyer and you pay me enough money. and you say come up with 15 or 16 of the worst things you can thing to scatter sky me and that us all scatter companies. and that is what he has done. so you know, he's lost a lot. it has no relation to all. it was certainly not a whole, but what i tell the guys is we had them all on the inside. we had a guy who i should've on with, you know, i'm privy to trust things loose. let's move on. you know, let's learn from all these, all these mistakes. yeah, i mean, i'm not going to get into the litigation and you know, honest to me as far as the media. i'm not going to, you know, to, to lay out the case against this particular guy. because that is not for him. i want, i want to legal, i want, i want to do this legally and conclusively, it's true. and i mean, we invite vein on, but i mean, i just, i just because it's

a subject of litigation. he said, i'm not going to comment on pending litigation, recent person comment, ensure defamation will be a much larger part of the proceedings. i have no russian investments. i suppose so, obviously the big story that was covered around around the world was you're saying it's humanitarian aid. and you're helping training. you did say on camera, hopefully you contributed to russian deaths. so obviously if you're a part of the global south that sympathizes with moscow in this situation, if you are in russia, you're going to go, well, you know, he is the head of the mozart glueck group saying hopefully we contributed to russian deaths. yeah. ah, i, you know, i can look that same and that, yeah, i mean, because, sadly, in this war and, you know, you do them all to know any more,

actually tend to, it tends to be, you know, them all the other streams. you take off the playing field of the chessboard, kill because the less dangerous to your own guys to your own country. you know, so we can dance around that. but why we train guys. it isn't simply to defend themselves. it is to colleen with their professional. so just by background, there's no reason to lie about this. you know, the best form of defense is often seminar, just train. these guys are literally to, to defend the families. we've got to train them to do more and, and how expensive it like sounds. it sounds a bit like the european union, the us going, where are you going to supply defense, where the thing that we live, that everything, everything we're doing is exactly within the parameters of u. s. u. k. data policy. there's nothing that we all do. i mean, the,

the west is providing ukraine with lethal weapons. right? they kill russians. why they doing that? it's not, you know, it's to kill russians. so we can dance around. you know, this, this phrase ology, which is unfortunate. i don't like using the term kill, you know, it's much more, it's much nice to say expel rational data, which is all true. but weapons are designed largely to kill people. and when we train soldiers, that is, that is say, gall and anyone who thinks that there is another goal to military training or other goals. but there is no other a central goal, perhaps more important than that. so we teach them how to shoot the weapons, understand what they're heading, asked. but we also teach them how to look after themselves, how to treat themselves at that wounded, how to treat comrades and you know, i mean, the way i tend to emphasize more of the lives we sit eve than the lives perhaps we contribute to ukrainians taking. we're tired,

can all stop you there more from the u. s. marine corps, former deputy special operations commander in the ukrainian capital after this break. ah ah, this is for more a conflict over power and they do use involving to united states a brochure. it's a question of all try a cert deep or sphere of influence in the former soviet space. it holds the europe rolled and ukraine easy son shot in order to take this out. he stays doesn't want to allow us to happen. and this is bob. the 4th, what is going on with

ah, welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with retired gun landry milburn ceo of the mozart group and former deputy come under special operations go on central in the us marine corps in the book a erode when, when the tempers gathers. you talk of your mother being in the red cross. i don't know what whether that's some kind of inspiration due to the activities. i mean, do you think she thought that the allies committed invasion, a crime of aggression when the allies invaded france? and i do 44. 0, no, no, no, no, show, no, no. i mean, right, think about that generation right. so they are, do your 1st of all, i don't think this. i mean, the allies invaded france. that was

a sovereign nation that had been invaded by the germans in yes, there was a fishy government, but it was not a thing. grain has been invaded by nato. after that. who no, no, you invaded by nato? well, it was an american back who wasn't that we have that phone call of the qu in kiev. you don't think the government of ukraine since that who has been illegitimate since then. and maybe that's why the global south seas and of the u. n. didn't vote with you and an american powers to condemn the russian invasion representatives representing most of humanity of the un. yeah, i mean, you know, i listen in india and i can tell you what, mine's where kind of my model compass lives. and i mean, i know because i've been on the other side and arguing about the invasion of iraq,

i think it's a great, you know, a great example that, you know, obviously you can, you can make an invasion look, legal, blah, blah, blah. but, but the bottom line is, and this is a, this isn't about training, russia and my mind, you know, it's a big picture, right? it's about global norms. sure thing. it's about balance of power. it's about, you said it's about hootin. it's not about ukraine and you know, so pension to yes, obviously i'm in, houston is not an extraordinary and i mean a and a positive. i mean, he's an anomaly. wonderful, right. in late 20th, 21st century, a guy who has committed a seal, russia in a way that russia has not been since under stalin. you know, even the latter, you know, the last thing is that the soviet union can see anything like this. and minister only this week was visiting south africa for the joint military drills between the

south african army and the russian army and russian forces. they were obviously, we're doing massive military drills in the pacific with china. bricks has never been strong of the shang, i, cooperation organization never stronger the whole of latin america, africa. se asia are all doing deals with russia. how do you mean hermetically sealed? russia has never been more open to me as reflect low currency. yeah, no, i'm not, i'm not talking about i'm not human insights overseas. i'm talking about russian societies being hermetically still order from, from our information contact. the downside. well, you know, i don't think that i don't think that. so i'm kind of showing you have a state as controlling, not just the media, but also to an extent social media say that is banning any expression of descent about the war with for, i mean you, when you went to the university where my father was professor i got to say in

britain, it is illegal. you are under threat of sanctions. if you mentioned that there's a nazi as of battalion entire television channels, from the chinese iranians, the russians are banned in britain. if you look at press conferences in moscow, you see sky is reported asking questions. you go to a 5 star hotel, moscow, the most good time to sitting on your table in your bedroom, selling you put in as a war criminal. just about in britain, every new paper, every journalist, every politician in congress, in the british parliament, where's a grain? the belgian. yeah, no, there's a frequency on the end, you know what? i'm not going to push back on you because i haven't been to russian and for me would be a good idea for me to go on. so you know if what you're saying, but newspapers and hotels, i would ask those just privilege hotels. but, you know, clearly my point is, this is, i mean, very plain, this is an unjust war. and, and,

and then, you know, the end clearly to the, the regime has, has taken a policy that has almost offensive towards its own, its own people buying, you know, shutting down any dissented all, why would, why would any country, you know, i know, i mean, this is crazy, this article discussion, but, you know, i wish, why would you out on the st. within, within russia, they've often said that he was under putin was under pressure from the left in his country for years as the shelling and the killing of thousands of people in don't both to do something like this. and he didn't, he trust the min minutes records, but the point is, and i mentioned a very quickly by it's bar. i police compare the numbers are, are supposed to, russian affiliated ukrainian nationals who are killed every year from the ukrainian

showing 2014 through 2022. and then compare those numbers to the 1st 23 months of the law. and i think you'll find that the, the evidence on best suffered far more on the russian and asians than they have it from ukrainian, shall i, or in the war before. but as to what you actually are doing there in ukraine, your continue, our help anyway. no, really, i mean, we had 1st hand footage. i mean if you look at cnn or the b, b, c, before arguably they were got that they were showing the casualties in the dorm bus, but i don't wanna go too much back of a history about it. because we are them in hong, i mean that you're saying that it's a bit like the spanish civil war and the global south, and the daily, the russian see it as your help and your humanitarian help is prolonging the war. russia will eventually win. and except there's something different about this war because russia is a nuclear power. so the more you helm the ukrainians in their war effort,

you increase the chances of armageddon as outlined by the bulletin of atomic scientists. it's not quite like the spanish civil war. it's not quite like any other war. you're putting the whole world at risk, the more you help the ukrainians ah, before their inevitable defeat. wow. you know, i have heard that argument before, and i think, i think i could understand some of it way back in february or march when it really, i mean, i mean to my, for the russians are going to want, you know, and i might even have argued although i would find it hard to argue, hey, we should support them because it's better to just read the mandate off and then i'm invaded. but there's a couple of, you know, there's a couple of points that one is stand you totally, you know, it's a great question, but i think you've alert the question of human dynamics, right?

so, you know, the, the, the on predict all aspect of ukraine, actually as the weapons colonel, if a, from a to hadn't poured weapon written and poured weapons in the, if they'd be not one weapon sent to ukraine, after putin in russia's view, defended the people of the dom bus finally, after a years of provocation, than the war wouldn't have been, one of the war would be over. very, very difficult to argue that counterfactual would it, wouldn't it? and all i can tell you is this. ok. i think i do understand your line of questioning. i'm just saying that no, absolutely don't buy it. and it's not because i'm emotionally ready to this wall. it's the fact that, you know, it's a west can benefit far more. i just simply embracing the prospect ukrainian victory with nothing, nothing to lose or risk. and i'm not sure. let me great victory is you

have you have identified who to know what the main reason you think booted is mad. i mean, you've, you've identified putin, you said it's not about ukraine. is all about russia so much. you love the russian people, you love the training people, and it's about getting booted is mad because obviously, you know, what i'm going to say if you do. and that is, they have nuclear weapons. mad stands for mutually assured destruction. this is not like any war you personally have fought in and documented. they have caliber missiles, they have tactical nuclear weapons, as well as strategic nuclear weapons. some people around the global south who don't support you or the european union or the united states, the majority of humanity, arguably gonna be asking, what is the mozart group doing? you are increasing the chances of the deaths of every one on this planet. we will 1st of all, i think that, you know, i understand the logic chain, but that's

a very long chain. ok, well, we are only a button in the grammar. we are here to improve ukrainian soldiers chance of survival on the front line. now you can, you can draw kind of a cause and effect chain i as, as you know, people on the west have and they tied themselves and not about, oh my god, what will cause putin to escalate to nuclear? what, we don't know, right? i don't know if he's mad. what i, what i do when i, i don't know if he is the most, our group are pushing the world closer to, you know, the new and nuclear base. i think that's honestly, that is very far fetched. a concern, of course it's a concern. ah, and i don't have, i don't have any soothing words to people who are concerned except the same thing on the ground. all the wes helping ukraine is very, very unlikely to push proves and to to tell. i want isn't just me saying that isn't

just my opinion. if you read most, i say experts, but you know, the think tank is to have a long time to study this. and i do, well, we're not going to get to thing to actually look at the fact it was an effect change. i mean, that will sound good either way. you're not, you're in there and you're in there. you know that there was a good, you're active in that cause and effect chain. but isn't that the problem of cause and effect change in the was you 14, whether it be have canister, with american arming, of the merger, dean that would turn into al qaeda and $911.00 the creation of isis and die by the iraq conflict. isn't the whole point and the failure of military strategy the you write about in your book precisely, this failure of comprehending cause and effect. and the fact that you may be creating for nuclear gambling. or, of course, in any more, you know, once you go to wal, all bets are off as far as what the outcomes are. as far as,

i mean, we seen that was my point. iraq, afghanistan, i'm not making the decision to go to war. i'm running an organization it's, let's get this back in context on running an organization that evacuate civilians who don't want to get killed from the homes that are getting destroyed and we're feeding and providing sustenance to other students. we're also training ukrainian soldiers who haven't received adequate training in order to, to at least enhance their longevity on the battlefield. right? yes. i, there's nothing in that that, that things my conscience. i gotta tell, you know, i, if i lay awake at night long enough and i could draw a thread between those actions and nuclear war in the end of the world. maybe that would be the case. but if i could join that fred, i would never join the michael, i would never deploy each one of the comments on, you know, so i guess what i'm saying is, i'm not, i'm not doing anything that you have said on. but you know, we will going to make our own decisions based on facts and the rational analysis.

and that's what i feel that i have done. but clearly it's not help funding. it can help your funding and i know you, you need funding. you want funding that your record, it is saying ukraine is a corrupt job society. ukraine is in violation of a convention that they shouldn't be filming prisoners of war for propaganda purposes. a killing russian prisoners of war. if you don't think obviously, lensky biden blink and the whole lot of them probably so now in london, probably schultz in berlin. they're all saying no, with any hundreds of billions of dollars there. and we try, i mean, we, we, you know, i talked about this earlier with your, you know, you guys about that. the interview was as you know, it was the car. it was taken out of context, my boys and i watched it. i watch the interview on it was it was produced by

a guy named max blumenthal. yes, i'm good. let me, let me get to points that. i that i said yes. specifically. ukraine. what i all, i said was sad. yes. ukraine has in the past, had a you had a problem with corruption. that's undeniable. all right. and so me, prisoners of all is a violation of the geneva convention. my point is that if you are going to have the moral high ground and you're going to say and, and i'm here, listen, i don't get my feet, my lines. so you challenge and you want to say, you know, support, you crime. a convention i, every day i just, i mean we're going to the end i should just, i was actually watching the video. you, your guys put up max blumenthal, editor grays, and said whether it was a whiskey talking randy milburn to learn the video i posted, provides a clear and accurate depiction of his comments on the corruption of the great society, sick leadership and the propensity of its military to commit to videotape battlefield atrocities for its own sake, milburn chasing the ukraine, a gravy train and get back on the wagon i don't like so huh. yeah,

you're reading from, you know, blacksmith, of course i don't agree some look at his background. all right. i mean, he is a, it is a man. all right. so the point is, why did he also that video? why did he, what i say with contest. ok. yeah. i stand behind a, you know, i love, i love the premiums. i'm here, i'm the risky. my life you can keep trying maximum is all i me, he's, you know, but i, i've, i've, so did it was my c. no, no in august for that ukrainian have no problem with that video because because they know the nature of russian just information. and that it and, and so, you know, but the point is, you don't support a side by simply spouting propaganda. you've got to be honest and the same with united states. you just talk to me about what i write in my book, where i criticize my own administration, my country's administration. this is the healthy aspect of it democracy. all right . you crane is a democracy. united states is mercy. we should encourage criticism,

not show people down, because we want to be a better society and ukraine, especially right now and all eyes on the world on your train. it's very important that you crane in the ukranian government act accordingly. i challenge anyone to, to dispute, of course, kind of under milburn. thank you and that's it for the show will be back next saturday 78 years to the day since the opening of the altar conference, also known as the crimea conference with franklin delano roosevelt. joseph stalin, and winston churchill meeting to plan the defeat of nazi germany during the final stages of world war 2. until then you can still keep in touch wireless social media . it's not sensitive in your country, but you can always had to our channel going on the one tv on robert dot com. what's new and old episode of going on the grantee very soon with who ah,

ah, with breaking news on r t. a hospital in the louis gale script, public. a struct, bobby you bring in the military using us, apply to high mars rockets, killing over a dozen civilians. that's according to the russian ministry of defense law. civilian infrastructure is again head to end on balance by key forces. hundreds of berliners take to the streets to protest the german decision of delivery types to ukraine marketing 20 years since the us invasion and occupation.