[000:00:00;00] a proud name becomes the advocate, an engagement. it was the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. the me hello, i'm manila chan you are tuned into modus operandi the show that dive deep in the global foreign policy and international relations to examine their methods and patterns and its history at reverberates in our lives. today. space is perceived to

be neutral territory regardless of earthly tension. the final frontier is supposed to be the borderless zone where nationality doesn't exist. but with more and more countries building their own space programs, will we soon see the cosmos as the next battlefield? we'll discuss it. all right, let's get into the m o. me. we look up at it every day. most notably, we pay attention to it at night space. we look up to the sky at night, and marvel at the light delivered by the moon. in the old days, it was the space race between the united states and then the u. s. sr to triumphantly plant the nation's flag on its face. the soviet sputnik one was the 1st space craft a satellite to be exact to be launched into space. that was back on october 4th

1957. a few short years later in april of 1961 russian cosmonaut your garron became the 1st person in space. then about a month later, nasa astronaut, american allen shepherd followed suit, setting off an unofficial space race between east and west. now on the ground, the cold war was heating up. the 1900 sixty's, were a volatile era for the west. with the us being entangled in wars across the southeast asia and ramped up hostilities against the soviets. much of that play hang out in cuba and in a divided germany at that time. and when the final year of that mulch was decade, the u. s. pulled ahead in the space race. july 969 saw american astronauts neil armstrong and buzz aldrin. becoming the 1st people to set foot on the moon, the us flag planted proudly on the lunar surface. now without conceit nor

concession on the ground, the us and ussr would later collaborate in space, culminating in this historic 1st the one me oh, when we open. oh, they are in by 975. the docking of the american apollo spacecraft to the soviet saw use capsule . american astronaut general tom stafford and his russian counterpart general alexi leon of scene here in what's now known as the 1st handshake in space. marking the

1st joint international mission. the apollo saw use test project and what some referred to as the 1st falling of relations between the u. s. and soviet union. now that handshake turned to men from 2 very different countries into legends. now i had the great honor of interviewing general stafford and leon are many years back. and they told me that handshake in space lead to a life long friendship, b. f. f. s. d 's. here on earth until general leonor passed away in 2019 at age 85. but there, handshake and subsequent friendship served as a harbinger for relations between their respective home countries. almost mirroring one another by the 1990s, after the fall of the soviet union, the united states and russia were regularly cooperating in the field of science in space. by the early 2,

thousands nasa relied on launches to the international space station out of the russian owned by con, or cosmic drone. and over the last 2 decades, new players to the game. china, india, the you, japan, and many others believe it or not. * a whopping 72 countries have some sort of space program. however, only 14 countries have the ability to launch objects in the space. even fewer just 6 countries. how functional substantive space programs in the traditional sense that you're probably thinking. but the most jarring and disruptive of any of these basic founded by billionaire you are mosque and a couple of other private sector commercial endeavors, such as blue origin by amazon billionaire, jeff bezos, or serial entrepreneur sir richard branson aversion not to mention the 10s of thousands of satellites, they're used for everything from your g p. s to military spying and everything in

between. everyone is up in space. it's getting so bad that space junk is becoming a topic for concern. because who wants a piece of satellite falling into their yard? right? well now with so many people armed with the technology and worse weaponry to go into space, a new multi polar space race is brewing. so as they say, what can go wrong for that will turn to professor of based law at the university of nebraska, professor from bonder, dunc, professor vander don't, has served as adviser to the dutch government, several foreign governments as well. the european commission, the european space agency, the u, when the o e. c d, the list goes on professor thank you for joining us. first professor, you are

a based lawyer. what exactly is a space lawyer? i mean, to the surprise of many, myself included. this is an actual area of law tell us about this specialty and how it actually works. well, that's a great question that many people i assume when they hear the word space. ready think about suing somebody else in court on a space issue, or that is not what most face lawyers do not yet, that may change in the future with more and more private space activities, but currently space lawyers, items are the people who are engaged as part of the private sector management team in the legal issues on contracts applying the licenses. there are space lawyers work for governments in posing licenses and developing further regulations on how space deducted their space for both in each of our. ready organizations like

nations or telecommunications in the same type of stuff. then you have a recent number of people like me who teach space more in the context, research, investigate, she what the problems are and what the solution would be. now also a lot of consultants around i'm also consultants. ready part of what i do, which means that i advice i operate this government's organizations, nation spaces for us, which is basically the global pop up s the most, most all the time, only issues and then only at the bottom end there are perhaps a few people who actually go to court and she someone else, those in the space mission, many country now have a space program. and when the old days it was really a space race between the u. s. and soviet union. but today, there is nasa, there was the russian program, the chinese have one, india, europe as

a joint effort among various countries. so how will space law work? is it, i don't know, perhaps comparable to maritime law in many respects, cities and what would be the most fundamental barrison that maritime roll? the large extent us with areas from the high seas, which is where every, every stage and principal, we want to once invest ours shipping international obligations from straining nets, freedom and the same baseline applies to outer space as well as space is also a fleet area. i usually referred to as low as global commons, which kind of gives jensen's rational area. there's no single state which is called the 2, which means that space law limitations that seem to be developed on an international level by 3 to ball. and that's also a maritime all going back to the 1st part. ready the fact that we have more and more states of space, you mentioned only the most border once,

but there are also countries like brazil views. yeah. jerry are many smaller countries also get means of course that you have more or more states or something. state one the one hands are interested in fair share rules what they do. ready the space they want to be projects and then about the liability of that the same time it makes it more difficult to get all those states from the same page when it comes to what she actually picked up. so that sense development of more international space more is a larger challenge than it was like a. ready basement just needed to so we do need states to agree and basically the rest of the world follow since currently several space programs run by both nations and the private sector are once again i in the moon. the chinese have already sent an unmanned explorer to the far side of the moon. nasa intends to go back to the moon in a few years and even stand up

a lunar space station. the chinese have expressed a similar goal. can any state lay claim to the moon? i mean, if not the, the whole thing. maybe just parts of the moon. know most mostly in the sense, like you could say this is now my territory is kind of an extra thresh, robbins of united states or china or anything like that. the most important piece of space more than 167 office space treaty, which by the way, is officially recognized by all the states. anyone who is something out of the space has signed up to that so that we provide a baseline you that outer space b t and makes very clear. that's no one can appropriate it as the sheets, any part of the space or can space real estate sales become a thing and what would that sort of law even look like? would this look like, i don't know the wild,

wild west in the 1800s with gold miners just simply link cleaned up a plot of land. i mean, can one just lay claim to 5 acres on mars and 20 heck there's on ferries? well, in has already happened that because there was already 980. there was an american businessman managed to convince local or far into that following such laws on how a fire were should obtain property over lands in the united states while less. but they applied to the move any place has since become a multi 1000000000 by setting parts of the box is strictly speaking as for the fact that he used us last year apply to the moon is in evidence contradiction to the fact that room is not part of the united states. so whatever last the united states for supplies to other countries as well may have been page for allowing 5

citizens like the ownership over 5 parts of lands. that's more only applies to ad issue. and since the moon pendleton, part of any punchy down on the because a lot of the on the space to keep which i spoke about unit does not look like. again, hasn't kept many people from buying parts. but each time, there was a period when this was me, i or noose and every to each. i bought it, you know, for someone say, no, and i buy this, should i buy this? i bought this, what i was always there, shape. you know, you could buy to say, watch for the price for me, which tells you and you know is basically, i don't wanna use 30 words, but instead what i'm saying is, which means for all right. so for some trusting individuals out there dreaming of owning a piece of the moon, or mars, or another celestial body, it may be prudent to check with the space lawyer before proceeding with that deal. but for nations,

lawyers are an essential necessity in this uncharted territory. more than ever, when we return, we'll discuss the growing possibility of noah to rising. the moon said type, the ammo will be right back. ah ah ah ah ah ah ah, with ah,

with i my name is frank from a reserves and philadelphia got in the moon in an age 13 or 14, and we were violent towards those people because we believed that we're in this race. we were here 1st and this is our country being part of that movement. i got a sense of power. when i felt powerless, we got attention when i felt invisible and accepted when i talked to level life after, hey, is an organization that was founded by for a skinhead neo nazi white supremacists in the u. s. in canada. and they found each other and they knew that they wanted to help other guys get out is 2 parts to getting out of a violent extreme. this was the 1st part of disengagement, which is where you leave the social group. and then the next part is d, radicalization. work belief systems. you know, you all are too far removed. it was very impactful. when someone finally came along

with no fear, no judgement, you heard my story did nothing to challenge it out. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy even foundation, let it be an arms race is often very dramatic, development only personally and getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very difficult time time to sit down and talk. the news space is a bit more complicated. now with not only sovereign states, i'm the moon once again. but now we have entered the era of commercialization of space. private sector space tourism is now a reality,

and so is the potential of militarize in the moon. professor from vonda dunc is staying with us to continue this conversation. so professor, there are thousands and thousands of satellites floating around up there. space tourism is fast becoming tangible for more people. i mean, still a very small elite few, but still it's a reality now. is there any fear within the space community bit space, junk or space traffic could cause catastrophic or even deadly accidents? i mean, how was, i don't know what else to call it, but how is space commuting going to work? well that's, that's absolutely a very important issue. so far, the main concerns are with that much cost space because there are no that many space objects which once should be empty. and you would basically talk about some of the largest set lives, which are very well shoot or maybe space station, maybe call the russians

a few months ago. patch. she's dropping the space station or something which was approaching them. but that's not, i mean that's just a few space object which are big enough despite we. ready so the main incense currently i with stuff happening a lot of the space and then as you huge, sure not just the space to is before any set like activity part is the problem is that doesn't speak with which is part of why even a chinese article yes, a national shoes or boss. ready great damage to. ready all upset like so these concerts are actually there. i want to say that as a lawyer, as more fisher more can obviously it helps mitigate that. but we're nearly needs to be honest, the willingness to develop the willingness to spend money on the electrical plan

stretched to take out the most dangerous satellites which are no longer an inconsiderate. ready or to clean up. ready re reaction we this stuff like that certain parts which are already being removed. the space junk space to form. gotcha . there are fairs that given the political problem here on earth that it has bled over into space where once upon a time, the so called final frontier was where earthlings of all nationalities were able to not only co exist but cooperate for the greater good of mankind. now we're seeing countries withdraw from the i s. s. program. we're seeing earth hostilities and animosity convey in space programs. the newest example, the essay, the europeans cancelling their future contract with ross cosmos, the russian program. what would happen if this trend continues? well, it's certainly. busy a bad sense that we know there's no spot for unity

in that space and that one central server at the same time, there are 2 issues which makes me which makes me better still a possibility that it will not end in the worst case scenario. that space. ringback over over a war or something like that, right? for one, despite all the, all the bad stuff going back to russia and since they still work together on the space station, it's probably the only part the only area will still work together. but just to couple of days ago, space actually us company flew a u. s. s. and or to us as small as japanese and the russian s most to the space station. so for whatever reason, and through whatever miracles they have been able to keep the space station corporation outside of all the conflicts that are going on elsewhere,

the boy pulse and mostly made her stuff to russia safe. of course. net no one knows how long how much longer that will survive, but it tells you that there's something special about space. and for example. ready taking them on a picture, going also back to the, to the space junk issue. there isn't understanding. those really are gauge space. that in which case manager was really in the same boat, one life boat, which is called earth. and everybody's in the same boat. everybody's in that boat, you know, so there is this kneeling or this, this is this idea that that event is from, you know, or prevent some, some of us, at least from on simply thank you space for their own limited national benefits space. john junk doesn't discriminate. you may blow up somebody or somebody else's

life, but the smell super back to you on your own chef lights, your own space. and it's ironic that went last december, which is for the war. the russians who are their own set lives in our space just to show some muscle and show that if something happens, we are able to don american satellites in west michigan target practicing with the be all dish threatened the space that she conference of the space station safety sheets, which means that we ship parts of space to be come to cause for conference to the space station. sure everyone in the space station scrambles or to whatever. ready vehicle dr. at that point space station kind of live or situation. so they're really watch. it's without a minute without within a week in that's situation of the russian space. space. 6 people from the space station lifeboat or 3 of the russians. so it tells you that

i should enough to stuff you also can damage your own space operates. so again, it doesn't before we move fast happening in our space, but at least it just kind of checks on the feasibility of the worst, noting moreover that i don't think anyone has yet figured out. our space contributes gyms of actual representation and stuff like that to a war space can be used for also gone and spare position has been your voting, military things. but if you really want to harm the phones in the wall like. ready situations they are easier and much less cost me waste. ready space structure. donald trump was marked for launching space force, but the star wars program actually existed during the reagan years. and after the fall of the soviet union,

that program went dormant. now that space force is an official branch of the us military is their cause for concern. that space will also become militarized. not so much as people. for starters, that you make clear that space has been achieved militarized from the spot. you know, major reason for the space race. so thanks for students. technology for purposes for spying, if you will. and there were some other concerns as well, like like the steve ship, both countries want to show the rest of the world. the little system was spirit. one and one way of doing that was. ready ready space french was also clear, middle, and cigarettes from the get go, both sides and satellites for military purposes. so when people talk as if space these about the militarized, that's a gross misconception, because it has militarized from the start. what isn't, what is most militarized?

there were also did it translations, actually it's use actual semester to body searches and march. so there you can find our nation conformity space to find any military base any any station on average that does not apply to the point of space. so that's number one. and so far as far as i know, no weapons have actually been tested on the moon. the only thing which is possible is that you've been military personnel for scientific purposes. and again, we should realize that out of the 12, all of us actually set foot on the moon. never remember terry for the navy pilots or air for spines. so it's clear that that is sort of a misconception. warranty space for him particular, just much fun has been made of that. i'm not sure to be honest whether some

actually realized what a space for able to do. he's probably, you know, this is going to start to push mine's carrying guns and rolling over the wounds. fight anyone, but just well, that's not what space force necessarily is all about. we should realize that russians and french and chinese have their own space for us. so when it comes to assessing whether this means escalation or risks off over the actual course space, that actually brings us to the student intelligence. well, i simply don't know whether this is moved or was part issue issue jackson, chinese and russian. hosting the space was in which case it's injectors. it's a reaction to escalation provoked by to be on the side or to which extends development all the space force and more importantly,

if that will happen. just give, if we find even wrapping up the actual with a general knowledge base, whether that is me shaking escalation, which we trigger some reaction from the from. ready russia for the chinese, so it's, that's more of the intelligence few on wish to blame for escalation depending upon your knowledge of what's going on there. and i don't have that knowledge. professor france wander dunc of the university of nebraska. thank you so much for sharing your expertise with us. thank you very much. well, i guess space is sort of like the paradox of schrodinger's cat. the cosmos belong to no one yet everyone at the same time. so it's up to all of us on earth to agree that up there. we can't do the same that we've always done down here. that's gonna do it for this weeks episode of modus operandi the show that dig deep into

foreign policy. i'm your host manila chan. thank you for tuning and we'll see you again next week to figure out the ammo ah ah, at this hour, american and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm iraq, to free its people, and to defend the world from great danger. with food and medicines in supply and freedom

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ah ah ah ah, the headlines of this our senior us deborah, i'm not involved on a trip to asia during which she is expected to take issue. it rushes substantial as well and arms to india. s. as in india, reiterate that his child with russia are indispensable. parking in the snow present, hurt its own, its own challenges because enemy positions well in the field in the snow because virtually invisible, intense lighting persists in dawn loftus strike, increment the weather as russian artillery maintains its firing positions our