another example of they do it in or so in addition to provide to a weapon. so, to were jeff regime or they, they had for ver, none experts, each objective to break up russia and you will only fume retentions and the reaction of russia, which wants to keep its own integrity and, or this, it swagger is mobile in crunch forever on which is why it's so dangerous, for example, in european parliament, there is a conference about to a breaking up of russia are from birth 3 nations of russia forum we've visser or polish any peace in europe and parliament, so it's financed by european parliament as well. so it's very dangerous situation and it will, i hope, or there will be more scrutiny of these extremist or project to, or within the e u, because we don't know which will lead. well, as the, as you say, you know,

we hope the cooler heads will prevail and eventually the right people will get to the right table for peace negotiations appear. but as you well know, germany is a and a bareback, a saying the quiet stuff out loud saying that that germany is at war with russia. perhaps she shouldn't have said that. some other european officials have been trying to back track on that statement pierre emanuel tillman. next time i promise, we'll have more time. thanks for joining us. i thank you for joining us as well. this is all the international ally from moscow in half an hour's time. my colleague, you know, neil is here at the desk with more of your top, well, the, oh i i me

. hello, i'm manila chan. you are tuned into modus operandi the show that dive deep in the global foreign policy and international relations to examine their methods and patterns in its history reverberates in our lives. today. space is perceived to be neutral territory regardless of earthly tension. the final frontier is supposed to be the borderless zone where nationality doesn't exist, but with more and more countries building their own space programs. will we soon see the cosmos as the next battlefield? we'll discuss it. all right, let's get into the m o. ah, we look up at it every day, most notably, we pay attention to it and night space. we look up to the sky at night and marvel at the light delivered by the moon. in the old days, it was the space race between the united states and then the u. s. sr to

triumphantly plant the nation's flag on it face the soviet sputnik one was the 1st spacecraft, a satellite to be exact, to be launched into space that was back on october 4th 1957. a few short years later in april of 1961 russian cosmonaut your garron became the 1st person in space . then about a month later nasa astronaut american allen shepherd followed suit, setting off an unofficial space race between east and west. now on the ground, the cold war was heating up. the 1900 sixty's, were a volatile era for the west, with the us being entangled in wars across the southeast asia and ramped up hostilities against the soviets. much of that playing out in cuba. and in a divided germany at that time, and when the final year of that to mulch with decade,

the u. s. pulled ahead in the space race. july 969 saw american astronauts neil armstrong and buzz aldrin. becoming the 1st people to set foot on the moon, the us flag planted proudly on the lunar surface without conceit nor concession on the ground. the us and ussr would later collaborate in space, culminating in this historic 1st the one me when we open over, they are in

by 975, the docking of the american apollo spacecraft to the soviet saw use capsule. american astronaut, general tom stafford and his russian counterpart, general alexi leon of scene here in what's now known as the 1st handshake in space . marking the 1st joint international mission. the apollo saw use test project and what some referred to as the 1st falling of relations between the u. s. and soviet union. now that handshake turned to men from 2 very different countries into legends. now i had the great honor of interviewing general stafford and leon are many years back. and they told me that handshake in space led to a life long friendship, b, f. f. s. d 's. here on earth until general leonor passed away in 2019, at age 85. but there, handshake and subsequent friendship served as a harbinger for relations between their respective home countries. almost mirroring

one another by the 1900 ninety's. after the fall of the soviet union, the united states and russia were regularly cooperating in the field of science in space. by the early 2, thousands nasa relied on launches to the international space station out of the russian owned by con, or cosmic drone. and over the last 2 decades, new players to the game, china, india, the you, japan, and many others, believe it or not, a whopping 72 countries have some sort of space program. however, only 14 countries have the ability to launch objects in the space. even fewer just 6 countries have functional, substantive space programs in the traditional sense that you're probably thinking. but the most jarring and disruptive of any of these basic founded by billionaire you are mosque and a couple of other private sector commercial endeavors,

such as blue origin by amazon billionaire, jeff bezos, or serial entrepreneur sir richard branson, a virgin, not to mention the 10s of thousands of satellites up there use for everything from your gps to military spying. and everything in between. everyone is up in space. it's getting so bad that space junk is becoming a topic for concern. because who wants a piece of satellite falling into their yard? right? well now with so many people armed with the technology and worse weaponry to go into space, a new multi polar space race is brewing. so as they say, what can go wrong for that will turn to professor of based law at the university of nebraska professor from launder, dunc professor bonder don't, has served as adviser to the dutch government,

several foreign governments as well. the european commission, the european space agency, the u, when the o e. c d, the list goes on professor thank you for joining us. first professor, you are a based lawyer. what exactly is a space lawyer? i mean, to the surprise of many, myself included. this is an actual area of law tell us about this specialty and how it actually works. well, that's a great question. and many people i assume when they hear the word space. ready think about suing somebody else in, in court on a space issue, or that is not what most space lawyers do not yet, that may change in the future with more and more private basic to use. but currently space lawyers, items are the people who are engaged as part of the private sector management team in long deletions, on contracts on the buying licenses. there are space lawyers work for governments

in posing licenses and developing further regulations on how space deducted their space for both each member organizations like nations, telecommunications, the same type of stuff. then you have reached a number of people like me teach space more in the context, research investigates, she what the problems are and what the solution. we now also a lot of consultants around i'm also consultants. ready part of what i do, which means that i advice 5, operate this governments stations. yes. jason space explores which is basically the mobile top of estimates. most all the timely issues and then only at the bottom. and there are a few people who actually go to court and seen someone else because of the space mission. many countries now have a space program,

and when the old days it was really a space race between the u. s. and soviet union. but today, there is nasa, there was the russian program, the chinese have one, india, europe as a joint effort among various countries. so how much space law work is it? i don't know, perhaps comparable to maritime law in many respects, cities and what would be the most fundamental barrison that maritime roll? the large extent us with the areas for high seas, which is where every, every stage of principle we want to once invest in all the nations of spraying that feed him. and the same baseline applies to outer space as well. our space is also a fleet area to be referred to as low global commons, which kind of gives us some rational area. there's no single state which we call the 2, which means that space law,

limitations that seem to be developed on an international level by 3 to ball. and that's also a maritime law. going back to the 1st part of the question, the fact that we have more more states of space dimension only the most or once. but there are also countries like zillow views. yeah. right. jerry, are many smaller countries. also get means of course, that you have more and more states or something. state one, the one hands are interested in fair share rules or what they do on the space. they want to be projects and then about the liability of that the same time it makes it more difficult. all those states on the same page when it comes to what she actually picked up. so that since the development of new inch, national space mall is a larger challenge than it was back in. ready ready basement just needed to so we do need states to re and basically the rest of the world follow since currently

several space programs run by both nations and the private sector. or once again i in the moon. the chinese have already sent an unmanned explorer to the far side of the moon, nasa, and tends to go back to the moon in a few years and even stand up a lunar space station. the chinese have expressed a similar goal. can any state lay claim to the moon? i mean, if not, the whole thing, maybe just parts of the moon. know most mostly in the sense, like you could say this is now my territory is kind of an extra terrestrial province of united states from china. the most important piece of space more than 7 office based gp which by the way officially recognized for all 4 states. anyone who is something in our space has signed up to that so that we provide a baseline you that outer space 3 t and hard to make very clear. that's no longer can appropriate it as the sheets,

any part of the space or can space real estate sales become a thing. and what would that sort of law even look like? would this look like, i don't know the wild, wild west in the 1800s with gold miners just simply link cleaned up a plot of land. i mean, can one just lay claim to 5 acres on mars and 20 heck there's on ferries? well, in the sense that there's already happened that because there was already night 18, there was an american businessman managed to convince local or far into the following such laws on how a fire where i should coach james property over lands in the united states. and the well list that they applies to the mood any place. since we go multi 1000000000 by 70 parts of the box. this, strictly speaking, is for the fact that he used us last few apply to the moon is in

evidence contradiction to the fact that moves the parts of the united states. so whatever last the united states for supplies of interest as well may have in place for allowing 5 citizens like you would need ownership over 5 parts of lance. that's more only applies to the frontier issue. and since the movie channel, part of any punchy at all, because hard to be honest, base tricky which i spoke about earlier does not apply to. again, it hasn't kept many people from for buying parts, but each time there was a period when this was me, high or noose, and every 2 weeks i bought an email or phone or someone say, no. can i buy this? should i buy this? i bought this for me, i was always there shape. you know, you can buy the same watch for the price for me, which tells you, you know, this basically, i don't want to use dirty words, but instead what i'm saying, which means thought, right?

all right, so for some trusting individuals out there dreaming of owning a piece of the moon, or mars, or another celestial body, it may be prudent to check with the space lawyer before proceeding with that deal. but for nation lawyers are an essential necessity in this uncharted territory. more than ever, when we return, we'll discuss the growing possibility of military rising. the moon said type the m o will be right back. i ah, ah

good, is your media a reflection of reality? in a world transformed what will make you feel safe, isolation, whole community? are you getting the right way or are you being led to direct? what is true? what is faith? in the world corrupted, you need to descend a join us in the depths or remain in the

shallows. the news space is a bit more complicated now with not only sovereign states, i'm the moon once again. but now we have entered the era of commercialization of space, private sector space, tourism is now a reality. and so is the potential of militarize in the moon. professor from vander dunk is staying with us to continue this conversation. so professor, there are thousands and thousands of satellites floating around up there. space tourism is fast becoming tangible for more people. i mean still a very small elite few, but still it's a reality now. is there any fear within the space community that space junk or

space traffic could cause catastrophic or even deadly accidents? i mean, how was i don't know what else to call it, but how a space commuting gonna work? well that's, that's absolutely a very important issue. so far, the main concerns are with that which course space because there are no that many space objects which would show 5 energy. you would basically talk about some of the largest set lives, which i'll shoot or maybe a space station, maybe called the russians 2 months ago. and she's dropping the space station or something which was supposing them. but that's not, i mean that's just a few space object which are big enough despite we. ready so the make sense currently i with stuff happening in the space and then it's huge. sure. not just the space to as before. any set like part of the problem is, is that doesn't speak with which is part of the slide. even a chinese article yes,

a national shoes or. ready great damage to. ready offset life. so these concerns are actually there. i want to say that as a lawyer, as fisher more can obviously it helps mitigate that. but we're nearly needs to be honest, the willingness to develop the willingness to spend money on that. i've already got plans patched to take out the most dangerous set lives which are no longer a consult. ready for to clean up, i re reaction weakness, stuff like that. certain parts which are already being moved to the space junk space would be just the form. and there are fairs that given the political problems here on earth that it has bled over into space, where once upon a time, the so called final frontier was where earthlings of all nationalities were able to

not only co exist but cooperate for the greater good of mankind now we're seeing countries withdraw from the i s. s. program. we're seeing earth hostilities and animosity convey in space program the newest example, the essay, the europeans cancelling their future contract with ross cosmos, the russian program. what would happen if this trend continues? well, it certainly. busy a bad sense that we know there's no, don't to bother you. if he's in that space and have a central server at the same time, there are 2 issues which makes me which makes me still a possibility that it will not end in the worst case scenario. that space part. ringback of a war or something like that, right? for one, despite all the, all the bad stuff going back to russia and since they still work together on the

space station, it's probably the only part the only area will still work together just to couple of days ago. space actually us company, flu, a u. s. s. and or to us as small as japanese and the russian s most to the space station. so for whatever reason, and through whatever miracles they have been able to keep the space station corporation outside of all the conflicts that are going on elsewhere, the boy pulse, mostly new stuff to russia. safe. of course. no one knows how long, how much longer that will survive, but it tells you that there's something special about space. and for example, taking the wrong picture. going also back to the space john issue there isn't understanding sharply on those really are gates of space. in which case humanity was really in the same boat in one life ball,

which is called earth. and everybody's in the same boat. everybody's in that boat. so there is this kneeling or this, this is this idea that, that may present this from you know, or prevent some, some of us, at least from, from simply space for their own limited national benefits. it's not much space. john, john doesn't discriminate. you may blow up somebody artist or somebody else's set life, but the smell should put back to you on your own chef lights, your own space. ironic that went last december, which is for the same war. the russians do up their own set lives in the space just to show some muscle and show that it's something that happens to be able to shoot in our consent lives in wisconsin. us, which the target practicing with the me of the dish threatened the space that she conflicts of the space, station safety sheets,

which means that it shipped parts of space to be come to close for comfort to the space station. sure everyone in the space station scrambles or to whatever. ready vehicle is dr at that point space station kind of life or situation. so that really arch it's without minute within a week in that's situation of the russian space. the 2nd space, 6 people from the space station to lifeboat or 3 of the russians. so it tells you that by showing up your stuff, you also can damage your own space operates. so again, it doesn't move that same. so happening in our space, but at least it's just kind of check on the feasibility of when the worst noting moreover that i don't think anyone has yet figured out. our space contributes in terms of actual. ready recommendations and stuff like that to

a war space can be used for also gone and spare position has been used the voting minutes, i think. but if you really want to harm the phones while i situations, they are easier and much less cost me waste space structure. donald trump was marked for launching space force. but the star wars program actually existed during the reagan years. and after the fall of the soviet union, that program went dormant. now that space force is an official branch of the u. s. military is their cause for concern. that space will also become militarized. milk, so much as people. for starters, that make clear that space has been achieved militarized from the spots you know, major reason for the space. so thanks for students, just a knology for suspenses for spying if you will. or there were some other concerns

as well. like with steve shipping. ready countries wants to. ringback and show the rest of the world, the political system was spirit one. and one way of doing that was. ready space french was also clear, middle situation from the get go, both sides and satellites for military purposes. so when people talk as if space is about 2 minutes rise, that's gross misconception because it has to rise from the start. what isn't, what is not militarized, and we're also military stations. actually. it is actual celestial bodies such as the moon and march. so there you can find art, nation conformity, space, g 5, any military age, any any station or reference that does not apply to the point of space. so that's number one. and so far as far as i know, no weapons have actually been tested on the moon. the only thing which is possible

is that military personnel for scientific purposes. and again, we should realize that out of the 12, all of us actually set foot on the moon. never when military or for military were maybe 5, it's our or air force pilots. so it's clear that that is sort of a misconception. warranty space. fortune particular, just much fun has been made of that. i'm not sure to be honest whether some actually realized what a space for us to do. he's probably not going to start in mind carrying guns and rolling over the order to fight anyone, but just well, that's not space for necessarily is all about we should realize that russians and french and charging their own space for us. so when it comes to assessing whether this means escalation or risks off over the actual cold out the space

that actually brings us to the, to the intelligence. well, i simply don't know whether this is move or part issue, your reaction chinese and russian give hosting their space for sure which patients injectors it's a reaction to escalation be on the side or to which extent we develop the space for us. and more importantly, if that happens, if, if we find the wrapping up of the actual human with its snobbish race. whether that is nice shaking escalation, which will be triggered some reaction from the, from. ready russian. ready chinese, so it's, that's more of an intelligence if you wish to blame for escalation depending upon your knowledge of what's going on there. and i don't have that knowledge professor fronds launder dunc of the university of nebraska. thank you so much for

sharing your expertise with us. thank you very much. well, i guess space is sort of like the paradox of schrodinger's cat. the cosmos belong to no one yet everyone at the same time. so it's up to all of us on earth to agree that up there. we can't do the same that we've always done down here. that's gonna do it for this weeks episode of modus operandi the show that dig deep into foreign policy. i'm your host manila chan. thank you for tuning and we'll see you again next week to figure out the ammo. ah ah

ah ah ah ah ah . in

lieu ah ah, in the wake of a drone attack to run reportedly summons a ukrainian diplomat for questioning your brains presidential advisor essays on the attack on iran would be expected and the plaines it's supporting rushes military also ahead on the program this our found for the countries right, expect them not to interfere in the bilateral relations between the pakistan and russia. pakistan foreign minister, it says, cooperation between islam about and moscow will include new plans for an oil pipeline. now that country faces, if your energy shortage.