senior fellow at the american university in moscow and director of the rising tide foundation of canada. in munich, we have ralph new meyer. he is chairman of the council for constitution and sovereignty. and in belgrade we have stephen guys. he is a research associate at belgrade institute for european studies or a gentleman crossed by girls in effect, that means he can jump in anytime you want and i was appreciate it. let's go the route the 1st. rather my introduction. i didn't, i don't want to be too extreme here, but it seems there is a major shift going on in german foreign policy since the end of the cold war. and the, the pinnacle i think the most well known foreign policy trajectory of germany in the postwar years was off power teak specifically, which is meaning basically essentially having some form of reconciliation with the soviet union. then later russia that appears now to be completely off the agenda since the foreign minister of germany better bob says, than we are in war with russia boss. yeah,

it is terrible of what they are saying and also doing by committing to sent arms into a conflict. it is actually a departure as you just said. it's a departure from a post 1945 agreement with the word we as a always a banging on it's we are not fully supper. and so i'm in the us. americans are still very active in rumson airbase and they do tell us what they want from us actually. so it's not entirely the drummond decision, but i agree with you. it's a break with our post world war 2 position in this. and i'm definitely opposing that to as many other drama do. i mean we, we want to have peace with everyone and that stuff so clear, the ostrom population, 80 or 90 percent would really say no,

we don't want to have any war with nobody. ok, we may want to defend 2 will right here and there. that's what we have done in somalia and other places in molly. at least that's what we were being joke. but, but to go to ukraine and send arms into a conflict and have the conflict with the russian federation. the majority of juggling was, and what was it going to bell based, steven? it's, it's, you know, it to make it the of the point even more clear when the unification of germany was happening in the, in the soviet union under a boat of a child who gave it a green light. which surprised a lot of people because they were reservations in western europe, not in the east year. but there was as a declaration of a united germany that germany would be a force for peace and stability. it seems to me that they have walked away from that. okay. and then when we hear the german chancellor talk about re militarization, a lot of people and the easter wondering what did we agree to where the really

universe ation of germany go ahead. your thoughts, unfortunately, even during these 1st years after the cold war, during health call and mr. and gasha, germany did the stabilize the east of europe. unfortunately by recognizing the at the time legal, national, florine, and creation from yugoslavia. and i think that open the door as box as far as for the german stance, it is becoming more and more clear to everyone. everybody what was clear, baby to certain people that were called lunatics. and that really isn't occupied country. that basically the 4 occupations dissolves, i've actually turned into dual based on dolls. and he's there in western germany. and then what happened with the fall of the berlin wall? a whole germany was occupied by the americans. and now we see that because i just want to remind you what mention this,

this name. so many times i think i should get a scholarship for this guy or something. dollars, friedman because he said repeatedly in 2014 and pasting that the americans wants what the germans don't want. they want to that for the germans to get armed, turn their peaceful industry into military industry and go to the east and what he explicitly sat in belgrade and glove in 41. if i was a german, i would never want that for my country, but i'm american. and the geopolitical goals of the united states are similar to those great britain in the past. it is to confront the 2 most logical allies, which is germany and russia. and then again, what happened with the, with the north stream. i mean, i hear this, this really loud silence from berlin. nobody is asking about the serious of instigation. while before this happened, we, he, we heard both exhort be a nolan and president by himself saying that more was they were fascinating that

they will troy the north stream. now it is destroyed and nobody's talking about it anymore. yeah, yeah. now matthew, in my 1st question's around here, i talked about june and german unification. and the deal was we know this from the documents. is that okay? a united germany will be part of nature, but not a one step further to the east. but it's really quite interesting is that the german question is, is, again confronting us because that was the 1st nate toe expansion was the unification of germany. that said the precedent to keep moving further east. go ahead. matthew. know that that's absolutely right. and that, that was, i think in many ways as the idea of the pen doors box was already brought up. certainly the path towards our own, an elite or germany, germany's sacrifice and annihilation ultimately. and i think that germany is, and many germans and many politicians, though they're not loud enough, are beginning to speak up about the fact that they recognize that they're being

served as sacrificial tools in any ways. very similar to the type of approach that was seen taken it, leading up to world war 2. when of course, you know, looking at b, b can hitting he hidden history of world war 2. we find the hand of anglo and american industrialists banking behind the growth of the hitler machine. originally the design was to just go straight on, destroy russia, and have them destroy each other. but ultimately, that was not what hitler did. he did other things instead and broke from the script . that being said, he was still being manipulated by foreign forces. it wasn't a sovereign entity. and just like today it's not a sovereign entity. and it's part of a broader a program that involves do rehabilitation of nazi up nazi history, pro nazi history that tries to paint russia the point of that point. it's very interesting to go to ralph here because, you know, we have, you know, we have at least a better bach, who is the most militaristic and aggressive foreign minister since ripping trop.

okay. best. who brought this up here? because the, the, the, the supporting of the ukraine in the whole faith tank debate is that it's supporting the regime in care of that has nazi and near neo nazi, fascist, speak elements to it. this is well known, this is not a hidden history here. this is a bad look for germany. ok, considering what happened in the middle of the last century ro? yes, exactly. peter and i agree with everyone here on this. what has been said now germany has broken the cease fire of 9th of may. $945.00, because to the, to plus for tree the order was called the, the treaty of settlement for germany. it's not a peace treaty. so we are still stuck with the potsdam agreement from lodge in $45.00, which is actually just

a cease fire agreement. and we have never had our phone server entity since that time. so what is now happening? i mean, the end of 2 plus the foreign trade from $990.00, allowing us to be unified. we promised that the united germany would only of piece come from its solder. and it's very strict under article 5 of the nato treaty that we can only participate in military actually defend lay to a territory which ukraine certainly has not yet, i say yet at this stage. and also we are bound by the 2 plus for treaty under international people's law that we only use our military according to the un charter chapter 7. which did allow us to go to places where it was a un resolution. but for instance, and the cause of all war, it was already not so because of world war has had no un mandate,

no resolution by the un security comes. so here we go, we have broken it now. a 2nd time after 1945 that we are becoming party in an armed conflict. and when people are due in my country that this is not that we are not a party to the war. because we only send arms and educate soldiers. no, no, it is, and that is prohibited. what happens with this with germany is being set up to go to our guest belgrade stephen is that, you know, fighting to fighting russia to the last ukrainian or they throwing in the germans now or the germans. also, you know, the 2nd tier because you know, what is the downside for the united states and all of this very, very good. okay, actually, this is a conflict down the cheap when you, when you're in the, in the broad scheme of things. here is a sacrifice ukraine divide. russia and the germans are, are,

are volunteering right behind me, ukrainians here. go ahead bel, good. actually, i think that also there is a broader plan to sacrifice all. nate, nate, those eastern members, 1st, the baltic states. unfortunately, many people are eager to go to war with russia there or i don't know, this is, this is really very my friends. i lived in poland for 10 years. i know. and the mind said, but i recognize that he go that his well being. and another thing i have to learn a bit better book was mentioned here because the greens have something about going into into, into war you know, into war adventures because it was your fish. in 1999 from the green bark, the leader at the time who was the strongest advocate of bombing of the nato, russia against serbia, montenegro, or federal republic of yugoslavia as it was called back. then i also would like to

remind her to remind you that actually the recommend everybody there is a wonderful book and a movie. it is golden german eddie. see that adopt look was back and it is about cooper waking up in 2014 in the middle of berlin. film film is brilliant, but what he wanted wanted. so he says that he doesn't like the a of the, he does like the neo nazis. he's daryl amateurs. the only party that she respects are the greens for and i thought that the author of robin, you thumping in advance. so now when we hear of elena bedroom saying that we are in war now that the greens are actually the greatest advocates of coal mining, they forgot about glass on all the agenda for 2 years ago. ah, we can see why the odor of the film. i really had this in mind. well it's, it's, it's, it's very interesting because it's the most hypocritical party in the world,

maybe right after the there were the democratic party in the united states here. but i mean, after, after decades of anti war and i remembered in the 1980s, i mean i was there signatures bang. okay. and, and then once i go into power, there, a whole green agenda seems to go to the wayside here. it's really quite remarkable, gentlemen, i have to jump in here. we're going to go to a hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on germany state with our t. ah, ah ah, since the beginning of its history, the united states of america has officially declared that striving for freedom and people's rights to happiness. however, in reality,

having one independence american colonists headed for that total extermination of the indigenous population of the continent, american indians were deprived of their land. local residents were driven into reservations and given the worst agricultural territories. while the best land was appropriated by white colonizers, the strongest glow to american indian tribes was the extermination of buys of native americans lived by hunting these wild animals, colonists slaughter the bison, and in fact, made them nearly extinct. every buffalo dead is in india and gone, said colonel richard dodge a veteran of the bloody and vicious indian wars cynically. the indigenous population was simply exterminated. u. s. army general phillips sheridan, expressed the essence of this policy. in the infamous words, the only good india is a dead indian,

the genocide of native americans of north america lead to a demographic catastrophe. the exact number of deaths is still unknown, but the number of victims is in millions. having been the majority on the continent before the indigenous people make up less than 3 percent of the us population today . ah, ah, welcome back to crossed up. were all things are considered? i'm peter labelle. this is the home addition to remind you were discussing some real news. ah right, let's go back to my trail. matthew, where is the issue of sovereignty here because, you know, will lead a better boss. the 3rd time she's been mentioned in our gathering here. mean, she seems to be the perfect creature of washington. i mean, she's famously said just recently, she doesn't care what her voters think about,

you know, ukraine. she's got to decide herself here. i mean, obviously the social democrats, the united states, the anglo powers of never like social democrats in, in germany. they don't like us polity. but emily to bear boss is the perfect trojan horse for them. ok. and remarkably, she's in the green party here. and she seems very comfortable of having sovereign choices. we're a country made by others, your thoughts? yeah, no, i think the, the croatian president, need a very strong counseling. said i, i heard very announcing that were all or were that germany wants to go to worth russia? well, good luck on that. it didn't look good the 1st time around. i hope it works out better, but it doesn't look good. and i think that overall, what is happening, if anything, on a positive side is that the population is being pushed to the brink right now where we need more of an activist poppy relation,

more of an activist participation or intervention within the business and military community of people who, who recognize that they're about to not only repeat history but now with nuclear weapons packed into the formula. so we have people like sarah wagner act, we've been doing some very interesting things and attracting a lot of support from both the right and the left alike. people who would normally never get together and have any common agreements on any single points but are but are in a chord that there isn't no voice. it is a vacuum of, of leadership calling for peace and she's doing it and call calling for potentially setting up a new party around this idea as well. so for the delay, a party has been the only one to speak up against this war policy. but i think that this whole idea of, of having a disdain for populism makes bareback really a gym, a wet dream of a gym, for technocratic managers who love to have the little detached him compassionate free puppets who are so ideologically committed to

a certain world view. that they can't seen, don't care about the pain that they're doing to real people. you're bringing up a really good point. and then let me go to run back to ralph here. urea, you're in germany. you're in munich. we hear the german chance are talking about a form of bree militarization, but his government keeps going over its own red lines, obviously in service of london in washington here. but i mean, the sri military is what young german people want to go into the a new better mark. i mean, is that does that exist? because one of the things, the speech that the champs are made recently, which got almost no coverage at all. but you know, expanding nature to the life with mal dover in armenia, presumably though it would be the troops because the friends still want to get in the military. the italians doubt the germans, delta spaniards bill the portuguese,

the. but maybe we can get these wild opens to do it bores very much like ukraine is taken on the market position and you know, we're going to die for nato. ok, i mean i, you know, i can hear the rhetoric and i see the pressure from washington. but i mean, are there going to be hundreds of thousands of young german men and women that want to join the military? now definitely not. and i must say it also would be absolutely illegal to, to do so. i mean, we have article 26 of our basic law, which is the poster 945 constitution that prohibits us to, to go into any war and to, to participate. and any a war without defending own territory or nature territory. but of course, you mentioned that we have nato expand again into territories that far beyond that. and of course you would press and who would go there and actually fight fight

for, for the course. but i don't see in germany any mood to go to war. i mean there's, well, the opinion polls always say 46 to 42 percent in favor. i'm not in favor of sending some arms or helmets to your great know the tanks. it's already 48 percent to say no to that. so we are getting closer and closer. the probably even more people would say when it comes to fido jet steps. the next step of escalation, that probably 6070 percent will immediately say no, that would refute that at the moment. that's not a talk with what route. i mean the tell me and my guess and my audience here, this public opinion count in germany. no, it doesn't really, and that's the problem. that's why i'm banging on it turned out to speeches that i'm giving here in germany, and i draw more and more support as it was just said that sarah barton connect. she's also doing that. you know, we are the new piece movement now,

and we attract more and more people from the center of politics and rather not only do using fringes of the far left and, and to far right. no, it is coming to the normal people in the streets who say, no, we don't want to have and he works especially not with russia because i mean, people know what it would mean and we, we don't want that. and i said recently in the speech i said, trans flush, all shirts and, and for all of us and tell us about the consequences of what he's doing there. and if he's been carried again over a red tape that the mainstream media put there out for him to to say yes to fighter jets. he should explain to us that yes, this could mean also bumping of parts of germany. and that is the result that we don't want to see. yeah. how can i make stephen? you know what we go, what all the way back to january of last year. the,

do you have any idea that we'd be talking about this, you know, 1011 months later talking about, you know, a people preparing for the possibility of accomplish a, a nato, russia conflict? did then ever enter your mind 11 months ago. actually, it kind of did, i must have shebra ever since 2014, if not even ever since 2000 and an 8th offered to doors in conflict. we've been, we've seen this poker game while the west is constantly raising the stakes while russia falling. maybe this is actually quite risky from the russian side because it was never proactive. it was actually even february 22. although this might sound crazy, was a reaction because there was a build up in that and he certainly the ukraine. there was a huge gratian prime minister on the blank, which was so many times that they want to share their experience. all basically it's about spelling serbs from today's grace from from republic of subscribing up

in 95. ah, it was repeatedly sad and they were giving practical knowledge to ukrainians. how to do that with dom bus. and once russia, i mean russia bad at b r blood spaces was russia made the move into the in, in february, then all hell broke out as if this came out of nowhere. really but going back to germany, i think that now what i'm going to washington are trying to compensate some of the foreign policy. they're trying to give germany some kind of a small reward. and this is the, the german behavior, the germ of demo frank behavior in the balkans. now, fred ross in germany came with the so called black for gospel, which basically says the serbia should recognize the legal sessional goal. so i'm at the, and, or by the way, say, you know, no, do it's closest ally at the security council,

which is russia by imposing sanctions against russia. so again, germany is used as a tool not of its own foreign policy, but of american foreign policy. while it's supposed to think that it is proactive in the balkans, if it is not proactive in, in, in the east while it is possibly being bullied natalie by washington in london, but also by 7 war. so, and even the baltic states. so this is really a very sorry scenario in which may talk, let's face it, landed in washington, are re occupying europe, and not only was through europe or because western europe is doing this. reluctantly, i'm talking about barrison and berlin, while eastern euros like move walkers are going into into the fire. when the new axis is washington, london, want your. it's that they get it's, it's a washington london. warsaw, kia, that's it here. matthew b, me the. i find it so disappointing,

but i fully expected it is that we have these leads and this is obviously, you know, the agenda has, it doesn't have popular deep popular support. but they're, they're looking at big 3 defeat, they're looking at as a binary. and i want to go back to something that, that ralph was saying, but they don't want piece, see, they want a military outcome. but if you were approach it discursive, lee in a very, how did the, how can we get peace then that goes back to what the russians proposed december 2021 is saying, we need a new european security architecture. and that is, i have very bad german for bowden. go ahead, man. i absolutely. and we that, that is absolutely what is needed in a it is in my, in my mind, it kindles the memory of the report accords. the world nic negotiated by vaulted up and how 922 after world war 2,

in response to the impossibility of paying the draconian or the the impossible oversight debt repayments and how can, how had very good relations with a network of diplomats within russia. the newly formed bolshevik russia that recognized, okay, we all lead industrialization. we only growth of development need when, when the language of the text is very strong, you are the american president at the time of an enemy of the league of nations with sabotaging that 1st attempt at a one world government. warren harding, who later died of oysters, also making short to, to settle bilateral treaties with russia, with russia, with germany, with austria. so you had a whole network of pro industrialist pro nationalist leaders of century ago. recent resisting this idea of a great reset of world civilization around this whole, you know, london centered league of nations operation, which were, i mean, i see a lot of parallels to what's being done today. and i think that and it's all your attitude, me the point that the real issue would speak right now is the fight over the multi polar operating system,

which is coming online very quickly in germany being one of the only by or one of the most bible units in europe that has a productive middle shot in a capacity to contribute actual works of productivity construction, bridge building between east and west and north. how that goes back to the of the in the german question here. ralph, we're almost out of time is the adage, keep the russians out, the germans down, and the americans in does is that, is that the modus operandi? 20 or 15 seconds? go ahead. now i do believe that, and you saw that with the bombing of to pipeline that they can dictate to us how did wanted. i wasn't the chancellor's office a week before the bombing of the pipeline said, please sign the monitoring who agreement if you don't do it, i do it. he didn't do it and then they bomb did. so someone must have run up washington and say we got a problem here and we have to get rid of that. that's the way it goes and the, and the rest is history. but of course, it's one of those things that we will never know because the people in power don't

want any of us to know. it's all the time we have. i want to thank my gets in montreal music and in belgrade and i think our viewers for watching us here at r t c. you next time. remember cross topples the ah you in a place and to the with a with a

no. go for them to push it up with a no i did a with the course when you put up a block or is it a voice message? but i am sitting in the disclosures now i say

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a finance republic. all authorities say that russian troops of nearly the codes the ukrainian held town um and the intent fighting in the area continues also, and molly joint forces to counter the ongoing threats a terrorism. that's the mid frustration. our french forces failure to tackle militant insurgencies in the region. a situation that really saddens us. it's awful that armed men can cowardly attack unarmed civilians. and more than 200 people were killed by israeli forces in the occupied west bank on garza in 2022. as according to the latest report by the palestinian health ministry with.