reported the sea ice, william burns offered russia 20 percent of ukrainian territory in exchange for ending the conflict. the kremlin, the white house and the cia all have rejected. this reporting, all of which makes us think the opposite. some of the biden administration want to wrap up this. needless for an adventure, ah . to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess, george samuel, we in budapest, he's a podcast or at the gaggle which can be found on youtube and locals. and here in moscow, we have to meet pre bobbitt. she is a political analyst and editor at you know me internet media project or gentleman cross stock rules and fact that means you can jump any time you want. and i would appreciate it probably start out in budapest, george you. this reporting, i know you're aware of it. here has been a lot of commentary on all sides involved with the exception of ukraine, which we'll talk about have denied this,

which give some credence to me that some someone in the bible ministration is um, i'm applying some kind of trial balloon, not the chinese weather balloon, but a trial balloon. your thoughts is it doesn't mean anything. well, unfortunately, i don't think it does. i then to think that the biden administration is just set on this par, and there's nothing that's really stopping it because the american foreign policy stablish man is set on the spot. so if we look at the latest issue of foreign affairs magazine published by the council on foreign relations a, the big in house, mag of the foreign bond establishment. there's an article by michael mcfall, the former us ambassador russia calling for total victory of russia. there's an article by garrick us bar i was, is that a victory to the day on conditional surrender boots in an article by alexander

denman saying the same thing. so they all bang using drug and we had bars johnson in washington this week. again, let's say we need to go victory. what about the prospect of nuclear war? 2 against bluffing and they, you know, and they are just repeating as so, unfortunately, for the united states, this long as i've seen that the moment is a godson, basically europe as being eliminated as any kind of a force in the world. nato is consolidated on the american leadership. the military industrial complex is coming very nicely because essentially european defense in the civil now just vanish. it will be replaced by american equipment and russia. they continually debilitating russia. so i wish that there were some serious negotiations towards peace. unfortunately, i don't say the may your thoughts here because i,

in everything the george said can be perfectly valid. but at the same time, lately, there could be some kind of sniffing around and seeing what the attitudes are. you know, how far the russians are going to go, or the even open to any kind of negotiations. me. and again, i want to stress, you know, your brain as a player and all of this was not mentioned. ok, so nothing about ukraine without ukraine doesn't seem to be in place. but everything that george said could be possibly very valid, which i tend to agree with them. i just wonder why the story was flowed. it came from swiss media, go ahead. it came from a newspaper in the need. so would you be in switzerland, a switzerland as a neutral country? it's a great, you know, isn't it? they just and most of the lawyers, most of the specialists in one sentence know if, where you to kind of jam we supply weapons to ukraine. then according to the all 3 support, you should also supply weapons to russia. so basically,

the question is, even if such an overhead, what russia except, i mean, just the last 3 weeks or 2 weeks, we saw an avalanche or confessions. myrtle said that a means to agreements are just to give you credit. some are all on sale. basically the same, no worries. johnson also said it was a i quoted deep will make it can be dish. so, i mean, if for you know me want shame on me or you want, when you full me twice, you want me, you know, it is russia white except some kind of a compromise that comes from somebody like burn. so, you know, the other people basically, we're pretty much discredited the life so. so this is the big question. however, i think everybody understands and everyone expects the stable tragedy and with the

current agreement, the problem is that the west is not what that should be. i mean, look, this huge my boy's ational tanks, although you are, you know, they want to get reasonable, which traditionally has been brand of russia. they want to get them all the countries and goals. and they all understand is danger. you know, i've basically, we see the same you know, the united states and make some kind of a very well, was there such a why doc, in 2000, 132014, for example, russia 1st prize. when you repeat positions are open the open, the cheer leading the crowds of my doc. it was the case, i look at their speech. even just rush your boss or the, anyone except a liberal form, a member of govern party might even came in the last 2 days or so. he basically did

not have any influence. so rush way just made it. and then, you know, the grade me and start stuck. so it is the same bad on the west volks, you know, russia tries not just then russia. yes. and then before they move to another stage, or another level of the west is started. this was of, i'm provoked, you know, escalation, russia, you have been russia before crimea for many years and dispatching the last 5 months of my daughter. know what happened? you know, before the decision on every 22nd, 2000 and everything before the 1022. remember, there were 5 months and there were lost all cations from ukraine. so if all was the same. yeah, george is saying the that the the this reporting from swiss media 20 percent,

which is kind of curious because they're saying it's, it's almost as if the west is believing its own propaganda. because if you think about what birds apparently allegedly was offering is 20 percent of the size of the dumbass economy, it wasn't mentioned at all as far as i'm, i understand. but ukraine kid did not have control over that 20 percent of the day before the conflict started. so i mean, do people like burns think that the russians are willing to accept chump change after all this? if any really baffling, it's a you can explain it if they actually believe their own propaganda, low morale, no ammunition running out of missiles, you know, all this stuff which is never been proven. there's no empirical evidence to back it up. your thoughts? no, i, i think so and, but i also skeptical, i think that if there were a serious often made to russia,

i don't think the americans would use william burns. you do it. i mean, i think that, you know, why the director of the c, i mean, i know you've been an ambassador before, but so director of the c, i is also a person to, to send the message. i mean, if one thinks about how this might conclude, it could actually be concluded, you know, they keep saying 0 at the end of the process, they'll be some negotiation. but it may be that they'll be long ago. she should be in the process. and just simply be, you know, thus far, no farther. and essentially, as you know, some sort of a, an armistice on russia takes whatever it takes, and there is a remnant of ukraine. that remains, but it'll be totally on the american tutelage. it probably will be inducted into nato and then you have essentially frozen counseling, which can last, if you think about as a career, a frozen conflict gets lost in 70 years. i mean,

because sometimes they don't last, but it may be because it's hard to see at the moment how they can be any kind of negotiation. so the most wanted are very well, you know, the, the russians and the, you know, food and betrayed time and time again, going all the way back to go bunch of and james baker's not wanting to lease. i mean, this is the mom. so why with russia sit down and believe any promises at all made by the united states and in particularly jima. i mean there's something that george and i, on the gaggle of talked about animals on a daily basis, is that even the very idea of an arm, a sister ceasefire. well, that will just, you know, it does take a time out to load up your brain with more and more weapons within nature being involved and that doesn't resolve and see the problem with the west in the way they, they try to understand or misunderstand rushes position is it,

it wants security guarantees in the european land mass. ok, that's never addressed by the west. ok. and, and that's what russia, but this is the origins of it. you can talk about unprovoked all you want to cares, but we have demands and you don't even gain to recognize that we have these demands what we will do, right. and also remember the west, the west had all the opportunity just to make the frozen offline for 8 years. i mean, point that there was an example of my dollar, you know, people dollar, there was a table to be there other than all just thanks to the rational troops who basically separate nice groups and although, and, and then load for me for 30 years. there was not a single person killed, you know, there is a sudden then sometimes you know, there are people on the 2 sides of that nice to re we're body say radio rules.

the problem with the don't was that it has never been both. it seems 1040 and it was always an open. well, i mean, the western media did not report it. at least in detail. don't have to be all, almost every week, sometimes more often sings in and blockaded. no medicines, no pensions paid nothing. i mean, this is never reported in western media. they don't remind people that the means to be careful or even rational. the means, i mean read them in just read the pages of the goals that they kept, the best been rush with. you know, they establishment of your bringing both. this is the last, the last point. you know, when these be in the pages and there were the ones about m. c, for people who participated in 2014,

not fulfilled by your grades. there was that was about special status. well, the therapy is where people rush, manage no reaction from grace. you know, walk a try to believe that not let me go to george cooper. we go to the break here in georgia and i am scarf that you know that the very thought. let's return to the mens process as essentially what this report is saying. go ahead. 30. yeah. that's, that's exactly right. it's like the west of the. yeah. yeah. this meant agreement that we never took seriously. never did anything to implement. yeah. that will be, that will be a good framework for a, for an agreement that we're actually going to take as an agreement, something that you are not like is the intention of implementing last time. yeah, and, and obviously the level of trust is that 0 or i gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to show a short break. and after that, your break, we'll continue our discussion with real estate with ah,

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the back to crossed out were all things are considered. i am peter bell. this is the home addition to remind you were discussing some real news. ah, friends, go back to the me here in moscow deem of the again, one of the subjects of the in that is not really touched upon because they're all kind of focused on rushes, losing ukraine is winning. zelinski is a new churchill and all of this, which is this lot of nonsense. it's a lot of white air because it doesn't really tell us anything about what's most important. and what is most important is when this military conflict comes to an end, which it will come to an end. i personally think russia will unilaterally determine that, but that's something down the road. but what about the, the post conflict environment here? because we have it, we were told that european nato are very much united,

but they're very much not ok. we have the french and the germans talking about security guarantees. the eastern european saying rush is a war criminal. there's no need to talk to them. i mean, because and all, while ukraine is really kind of low on the totem pole, the board is here. ok. it's really about the relationship to rush will have in european security structures, if it all. and if it does not, that will make sure that will determine that europe is a very unstable place for a long time. because you'll definitely have elements in ukraine, whatever size or shape and form it is, will be looking for revenge and a undoing of the settlement. that russia, in my opinion, will unilaterally impose this is one of the things that needs to be talked about. the mom. well, it russia just a lot remain the european jurisdiction. if you're in general, i mean, last week with 2 awful, awful articles. one was a european, honestly, you know, the for foreign minister on who is now a member of parliament,

but she basically wrote that, ok, sorry, structure one is for sure, which is russia, they're all the same. this is the same time we just band on the expansion is that which needs needs to be basically just a, as an energy charge. there should be no such thing in this. russian one, the top are well muscular oil oil. they're not focus is joel and how can russia remain in the framework? so, you know, john european jurisdiction this graduated, you know, and the problem is it was one of those damn russians doing with our oil. that's good to me. exactly. exactly, and this is no, this is no exception. this is the main stream on the lease in the long piece of europe. and, and now we're told that that the center piece, you know,

the central european union is moving along. now it's all on the boat to europe, we play and i want to say that that's ideologically ok in no other sense. ok. or it's just the relative weakness of the most western part of the continent, which is really kind of pathetic, but probably expected. george, you know, it's russian and expansion is rush. i mean, in, in the last 30 years it's only natural that he's been expanding. not russia wasn't, you know, later as a defensive alliance. i mean, everything like a, that's right. there was a problem with the united states is that it has very weak leadership at the moment what you would need somebody in the west and just take the situation by the scruff of the neck, so to speak, and just bring it to you know, you need somebody was just going to say this policy is not, we have to bring this to an end. it makes no sense. it's not advancing. our

interest is just leading to disaster. but there's no way around, you know, we have, you know, sergeant shows the german chancellor who's constantly just the saying no, i don't want to do that. and then you know, 10 minutes late to change his mind. so now i don't know. what else can you cite the jets when i'm drawing the line? you know, like the jacks. so that means you know? yeah, like the jets are going to be going up all the way or macro says, well, we want to impose a piece on, on russian humiliate. but in the meantime, i'm going to go on sending, you know, 5 digits or whatever. so apparently apparently george, one of the reasons why i'm a chrome to still in contact with him because he's doing a personal papers last plan. so for bridges are we, we will not talk to this with them, but in any kind of, you know, meekly call across a can you give me a call for me, please? i mean, this is how big the lack of leaders and this is the kind of leadership we have in europe. ok. we have a pen handler and can calling the shots,

telling the president of france to call the russian president. it's extraordinary. right? but that's the thing, but then because you've got these very weak leaders, there is this great danger that we could drift to feel actual war between later when i was the united states and russia, if you had a strong leader strongly to want to just simply you know brought this to an end, but because of this lack of leadership is just as a gradual drift to the point where i think it's, it's very hard to see how it can be avoided because there's nobody in the west, you know, and trunk, you know, at best, you know, won't be in power for another couple of years, but that's the best. so there's, there's, nobody was just saying this has to stop. you know, we have to just work out some sort of agreement and big, which is an hour and there's no arms. i change something, you can to eisenhower telling the british and french to knock it off and see what

not. yeah, that's of the, the, my, you know, you know, that ever since the conflicts started back in february of last year. so it's almost a year now. i've been, i've done almost every single program on the topic. and it's been talking about russia. but can you tell our audience, what is the thought, i mean, i don't know, but the average russians actually articulated. most people don't think about politics, we're kind of fanatics. we think about it all the time. but no rush is 300 year old dance. if you will, with the west, is coming to an end, and in this i'm is quite definitive. i think. ok? because at the end of the 2nd world war of the famous phrase, the iron curtain is going up all across europe. but it's the, it's the west that's created the iron curtain. now, how does that, how does that you think impact our russians? think about the future of their country. emma? well, we use cold. well, the math was, this is, it's human nature. and the,

in fact, the economic situation a almost almost everything's in there. so people are not too pessimistic. they think that this is just their temporary problem. you know, that there is just another crazy i, you know, and ga. gov and the here. i agree with george, even com if he comes to paul, will he be able to change the pi? i mean, we saw how he was incapacity. he was told that the president of the united states, people know who the american troops on syria, you know, because the defense is that he would not change the immigration rules because they found some walk, you know, district court, which incapacitated. so unfortunately, it's something more serious to change than just the guy in the white house see in the palace. basically, you will just be precise on, you know,

he didn't a plane, he just sat there and i stayed south lanes. and if you know, we have these new talks with russia, which are great and which will did good sound good. and just for security, he was he in good at getting just for us to do this was an ass and you know, most of the european stuff. yes. a change, but i think it was. but what we're getting, we're in a very, very sad place. george. this is also kind of like thinking about the aftermath of 945 to outside power is russia, the united states determining the fate of europe. but the europeans allowed at this time. ok. it wasn't because they didn't have the capacity it, you know, they have the e as a larger population, a larger g, d p, the united states, but it is acting in such a placid manner. ok, i mean,

and i think 45 years was bank which it was destroyed. but this is just a lack of leadership and foresight in a god. awful ideology. george. yes, that's right. i mean the, the europeans have been talking since the 1980s about how they're going to develop a european security and defense identity. and that would be. and then in the ninety's, i talked to start talking about the european of foreign policy. and then when that was the yugoslav crisis, i was the hour of your leaders proclaimed, but it never happened. time went on and europe has become even more subordinate to the united states. then it was during the cold war, even during the cold war. you had a real european leaders to start off to washington like the goal, really bronze that hell, which meant there's nothing out. i mean, it's total subordination. when that doesn't seem to be any real need for it. i mean as low security threat of the might have been during the cold war it's they,

they find this very convenient arrangement. and so now. 6 here they know european people know european politicians know that this is an absolute disaster for europe . it will only home europe the longer this goes on. but they are incapable of making any sort of the lead and standing oven and say in after you know, to the united states that this is something that you promote that was never any need for this. with so many opportunities down the road to have brought this to a conclusion, but there's no one. and that doesn't seem to anybody gets a little who's who sent me. well it's, it's very interesting to me because there are members of nato, particularly on what they call the eastern flying. so they're more distrustful of berlin and parents than they are washington. i mean, you know, i think this is a catastrophe that should have been avoided, could have easily been avoided. we've been saying this on this program for a year now, but i have to agree with george many times now is that the americans are pretty

much getting everything they want. i mean, this is a book for them. well, i think it's a lot of what happened but, you know, talking about them. i mean, what kind of european well, half east johnson was shoals. when he was asked, i went to sent thanks. he said, if the united states and then i will also say, it's like a, you know, what would you kill people? well, personally, i mean, you know what, you know, not to states to people. i would also. so this is the kind of european barracks, you know, they look up to the next stage, you know, they just doing something they're going to pull the see, you know, nowadays with rush war, we will be with the day of the world. i don't know what,

you know, they may even even a mental with their course, it will be a capital punishment only for the people who politically incorrect. you know, it will be for some kind of a or a lot of the environment you're a current. is that a discussion? as usual? i want to thank my guess in budapest and here in mosque, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here to see you next time, remember ah ah, until the scene hawkins, with uptime,

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oh, need to come to russian state patrol never. i've side as i'm phoning the northland scheme div, asking him the american house all sons and up for a group in the 55 we did. okay, so mine is 2000 speedy. one else calls with we will ban in the european union, the kremlin. yup. machines. the state on russia today and split ortiz spoke neck, given our video agency, roughly all band on youtube. with ah,

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