or some other conditions applying in that regard. good. it would not be an exaggeration to say that o, p. c, w. officials have a rather loose approach to this rule. this no report fails to mention though, that the chemical substances sites as an indication of the use of chlorine gas was also found in areas unrelated to the alleged attack in question. the 2019 report specifically mentions the alleged chemical substance was present underneath a field hospital in duma. the same hospital where the al qaeda linked, white helmets, films, their choreographed emergency response to aid. the apparent victims of what they said was a chemical attack. the same attack, which is now widely believed to have been staged. we were in the basement. my mother told me that we had run out of food and wouldn't have anything to eat until tomorrow. i heard noise outside some but it was shouting that we had to go to the hospital. so we went there. when i came in, some people grabbed me and started pouring water over my head. after almost 6

months of investigations, i can prove, without a doubt that the duma hospital seen was staged. no fatalities occurred in the hospital. the cherry on top of the story is that the white helmets are most likely that 3rd party cited in the o. p. c. w's latest report, not exactly the most reliable source, considering they seem to be experts and faking chemical attacks. and that's to say nothing of all the whistle blowing that came out of the original duma investigating team civil rights attorney. robert patillo says western powers use these types of investigations to justify their actions in the middle east, particularly as they see to deposed the government as syrian president assad. well, this appear to be the western powers attempting to justify their actions are ex post facto. indeed, they lead missile stripes were launched as a result of these chemical taxable these must a lot of strike for launch prior to getting the investigation for prior to finding

out who is their goals responsible for these attacks. they simply took the word of social media and attacked the assad regime. i think that this is why we're seeing them settling, trying to cover their tracks because they have to justify the absence they took was also killed individuals. well, if you look at the parties involved in the strikes on, siri was the united states or the u. k. i was li, the natal powers, and we've seen them use the, jumped the gun method i want to close to the rules based order pregnancy one, these only look at the iraq and afghanistan. wars are where the justification was a very flimsy evidence of weapons of mass destruction who turned out to not exist at all. yet over a 1000000 civilians died a little conflict. so there's always an interest by the western powers to justify their actions and being able to strike anywhere on earth with no declaration of war with no or would be or impunity when no other nations or no other organizations share that same privilege. while the international stage and not offer now be sure

to check out our t v dot com for all the latest breaking news and updates. we'll see right back here at the top of the hour with the with, with me. hello and welcome to cross talk. we're all things considered. i'm peter live, l y is the west. so determined to continue it's ukraine, proxy war against russia. how does such a position benefit ukraine instead of considering possible peace agreements? the west led by washington seems to see war is the only option. why can't there be

security for all the cross sucking war and peace? i'm joined by my guess, lucas gauge and brick. he is a us marine corps veteran author and philosopher in washington. we have micro maloof. he is a former pentagon senior security policy analyst, and in dublin we have shape bows. he is an independent commentator, and writer are a gentleman, cross type rules and a fact that means you can jump in anytime you want. and that i always appreciate it, michael, let me go to you 1st here. i mean, there is ample evidence. now. we have the former israeli prime minister. we have the foreign ministry of turkey. we have the notorious visit of boris johnson early into the conflict that basically telling lensky, you know, you got to keep this thing going, or else we're not going to back you. so there is ample evidence that the west does not want to see a conclusion to this company because they could, they could just turn off the money, turn off the arms,

and it would be over. okay. does that mean washington still believes maybe in a fantasy world, they believe in unicorns or something that they can determine the outcome of this conflict. michael, while they thought they could until they realized they couldn't. and now they're desperate this, this whole episode is been driven by ideology, by our neoconservatives within the, by the administration. they are hell bent on, not only moving nato into into ukraine, but isolating if they can russia and they're not succeeding. and there's a lot of trepidation now occurring within, within the united states, increasing, i should say, we're not there yet to try and wonder what the well, just how long is this thing going to go and what's the whole point? and while it's focused on, on making sure ukraine to quote wins,

the reality is it's not. and also it's draining us financially, economically, and militarily, diplomatically and, and apparently we don't know how to stop this. the slippery slope on which we're all gliding on and nato is, is also waking up and smell in the coffee and they don't like it. yeah, look, it's, it's, it's very interesting. you've been in the military. it's very easy to start conflicts, isn't it? ok, but how to wind them up when you're not winning. and with all due respect to your background, the u. s. is not what a war since the 2nd world war here, but they continue to the same playbook here. and i'm glad michael mentioned nato, because i'm hoping that this will be the end of nato. it was, it was supposed to never to get in a war. it talk about unprovoked. i mean, they baited the russians into this conflict and now they're beginning to have 2nd

thoughts. and if you look at what the hungarians are having to say the croatians, it's beginning to, i think the, those type of statements, doubting the this conflict really resonates to the rest of the european union. your thoughts, lucas? yeah, i think everyone's getting tired of this. nato, the u. s. u, they're all pushing way too hard, too quickly. they, as michael said, they thought they could probably win this war. now they're waking up the smell in the coffee and they're seeing that it's not really that easy to weaken. fact couldn't. and everyone else surrounded his allies were getting stronger without to us than people are starting to see that the united states cannot even be trusted anymore. so this whole thing is going to end up pretty bad for us here in the less than, you know, frankly, i look forward to multiple, the world works much more fair rather than having this bullied my country. pushing people around with this rules based order, which is basically american exceptionalism, do whatever we want and no one else could do anything brush, it doesn't have their own security interest. you know, we have to push them into this war because we want to expand our influence. right?

yes. you know, show you that, you know, that's something i almost feel obligated to mention every time i talk about this is that, you know, the, in the west they talk about maybe there's a korean solution, a stalemate, an arm and says, all kinds of things like that and i dismiss it out of hand completely because the west doesn't understand the origins of this conflict. and it's very clear from the russian side, hey, the european architecture security architecture has failed us. we need to readdress it. we have given you ideas, they were dismissed out of hand here though the way the thing is going to end is going to have to recognize. so security demands here in the west doesn't seem to wake up to that. go ahead in dublin. yeah, absolutely. and as michael lucas bowed, say, and we have a problem in the west f with this sort of a long distance projection into, into ukraine. and it's a russia, if there's any nation on earth that understands what long war is and what the

impacts of war. like with 26000000 people dead in the 2nd world war. i mean, it's delusional to think that policy analysts, you know, in, at downing street on, in washington a, going to come up with these a solution. you've got to remember that the minsk and one and 2 chords are widely recognized as being the solution to this war before it ever happened. and we've learned recently that and you know, the west nato slash ukraine were sent to using as those accords to build this and nato de facto natal army on russia's board. so i think the idea that russia is going to buy into another sort of western lead solution if you like to the ukraine problem. and it is becoming a problem as a, as michael lucas barry i at pointedly at point out economically as socially. and, you know, particularly in europe, we're starting to see a massive backlash against the refugees that are pouring into european countries.

and so, you know, the idea that we're going to impose, or that there's going to be a modeling of some sort of solution and is going to be put to russia. and it makes this more and more likely, in my view, that russia is going to be more skeptical this time on a battlefield solution to this conflict of fortunately looks more likely as isaac ruins on. yeah, you know, michael is go back to washington. it's i find a, i don't know if you read responsible statecraft, their website here am i. and it's a curious mishmash of things. but, you know, they're still this belief in american hegemony. we just have to, um, i'm welded in a more positive way robust emma diplomacy, i always say, but they're always saying it's in rushes interest. if they do this to this and this, i mean the, the arrogance of that. okay. the, the russians interest have been completely dismissed. that's why we're here in the weight and the way we are because no one takes it seriously. will that now they have to start taking it seriously. michael? yes. well, it's, it's, it's happening now as we see it. there is

a concerted effort by mr. brewton and others in the east through eurasia, to create this multi polar order it to get out from under that western sanctions, western financial reliance and, and the dollar and switch over. so they can. busy begin to breathe and, and, and, and work together again because it's, it's, it's the u. s. a gemini, and it's use of the economic weapon is what really, really did it. and i think that we're going to be seeing this accelerating. now, in the months to come, look, the united states pushed the nato to expand contrary to all agreements or at least a half a dozen agreements who warned them about it. they didn't listen and they don't. and, and now we're seeing the consequences. but especially when your own security is at stake, and the u. s. been so far away and having to travel so far, to create havoc,

just doesn't appreciate what, what, what mr. newton was talking about. if we were next door to russia, they would understand. yeah, look so you know, george jeff can in the architect of contain mentoring the, the cold war. i don't think if he were alive today, he would be called the potent apologist. ok. but i mean, he said this way, back in the day, he was actually skeptical of nato being formed in the 1st place. ok, and then, and i think he died at the ripe old age of 101. and he was still saying, nato expansion is a very bad idea. so people will say on twitter, you know, the 4 of us are just puppets and all that. but the, one of the greatest geopolitical thinkers of all time, set it decades ago. lucas. yeah, i mean look to people who call us apologists, they're just my opinion. they're just either ignorant or they're trolls their box that can be napa box while they're psycho still understand war. i've been at war, i wouldn't wish it upon anybody. so i just don't want to see this war get worse,

and it's probably going to get worse because we know washington works. they always push too far. so those of us who want peace are called warmongers and apologists. while food has been offering peace during this entire conflict, where zalinski has been rejected even during christmas. so you know, he tells you right there who's pushing watch, it's not who in the kremlin pushing for war. they responded to a genocide happening in a don bus weiss, but to sit there, let it happen, he sang, please stop this. all these records are broken. why should he trust the west? why should he say, trust anything. the west says at all. we know every one knows america will literally lie to invade your country. what makes you think that though you respect any deals they make with you? look how we treat our allies. we were friends, the saddam, that we killed saddam. we're friends with everyone will respect backstab everyone. so yeah, exactly. don't get dimension. gadhafi. he did everything they wanted. they did, he did everything they wanted. okay. and look what happened to him. i say,

you know, the, one of the things that really a real pet peeve of mine is unprovoked attack on programs unprovoked. well, and anyone watching this program that has any a, a scant knowledge of the conflict, your nose, this goes all the way back to the illegal code in 2014 in minsk, according to your message. go ahead. yeah, i mean of course, and i mean i just recently written a comprehensive article on that and one of the main l. a lower level media at present or in ireland just responded with 3 laughing faces. he didn't challenge the article because nobody wants to challenger debate. with people like michael lucas, myself or yourself, they just want to insult us and, and tried to suppress what we're trying to say. course, you know, nato itself should have disappeared when the warsaw pact disappeared. it was established, you know, post war to counter at the soviet threat, but it didn't disappear. and i mean, this is did the jam and the colonel of this whole issue that you had this expanding and military a defense of alliance. and so i say say,

how can it be defensive and expanding? and i mean, i've never heard of such an alliance in history. okay. it's ridiculous yet to go on by the whole american rules based order. as michael said earlier on, on the american rules based order as best as summarize the so american makes the rules and it gives the orders and an america has been the engine in perpetuating a more aggressive nato as since the 2nd world war. and you know, so we had no plans to invade the soviet union at the end of the 2nd reward and assaulted cities with nuclear weapons, you know, operational thinkable, which winston churchill actually sort of dis. okay. and i have to have been here gentlemen, i have to germany, we have to go to hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on war and peace. stay with our team. ah, ah,

ah ah. in time i'm rick sanchez. and i'm here to plead with you, whatever you do, you do not watch my new shell seriously watch something that's so different. my little opinion that you won't get anywhere else work of it. please do have the state department, the cia weapons makers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your facts for you, go ahead, change and whatever you do. don't watch my show to stay mainstream because i'm

probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called direct impact, but again, you probably don't wanna watch it because it might just change and the way the welcome back to cross talk. we're all things considered. i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing war and peace in the me. okay, let's go back to michael in washington in the 1st part of the program lucas and being a veteran of military complex that he wouldn't wish war upon anyone. and michael, you know, one of the things i find really disturbing is that this is not the, the 12 month of a conflict. it's, it's 8 years now. okay. it's been going on for a very, very long time. and i remember the now on the day of the, the special military operation went through my mind is now you,

the rest of ukraine is going to understand what the don bass went through. after the shelling the blockade, the humiliation that those people had to experience. we all watched it on tv every single night. i mean, it was an ongoing complex, but most people in the west have no idea. bet that happened, no idea whatsoever. and the reason why i brought this up is that when we talk about it on this program in social media, you know, they want to suppress us. ok for talking about historical facts. historical truth, that is one of the biggest casualties of this conflict is shutting down free speech . michael. well, that's why the west controls its media. the way it does. we never got any of this of what was happening in the bus for the last 8 years in the western media. we might get an occasion a with, but nothing of the extreme that had been going on ever since. the east decided they

didn't like the what happened in the under the coo and in 2014 you had a, you made a car, there was a comment made earlier about with nato expansion and what have you. and then the warsaw pact evaporating after the end of the cold war. what i'm seeing is a possibility that the collective security treaty organization could become the new war. so act and because they've got to have something that will be able to counter this expansion that seems to be continuing. obviously with been live and sweden. those countries within the c s t o it's going to are, are, you know, they have varying degrees of, of wanting to participate, but they have an article for which is equivalent to nato's article 5. when attack on one is attack on all. and if that, if the federation is hit once again by heavy weapons from, from ukraine,

i think we're going to see at least bella roost coming into the act as a, as part of that commitment. and it will be brought on by the west not, not because not by an initiative by russia or bell roost. but in response as a, as an article for event. you know, it's a very good point because because lucas, you know, at winston churchill famously said, an iron curtain is the sending all across europe. he said that in fulton, missouri visiting the united states. but it's the west creating an iron curtain now . and it's, it's in every way it's economic, it's until it's diplomatic, it's informational. they're the ones that wants to shut off, they control. but by doing so, and it's already been mentioned here in this program. the west is isolating itself . you know this, their self owning themselves. lucas? yeah. everything that the west is doing is harmony itself, from the sanctions,

backfiring isolating itself. what again, one person mentioned earlier that the, the east is making its own financial that we're bricks, namely, and saudi arabia is even considering joining and leaving the dollar. so that's the end of our american edge ammonia right there. so, you know, everything we're doing to harm and, and russia is just backfiring on us and the west and europe as well. i mean, look at the united states, we all know we blow up the pipeline and we all know. and now germany is like, well maybe maybe it wasn't russia, maybe someone else start to see through this. yeah, they start to realize that the america is just on hinge. they can't be trusted at all. and i don't blame, i don't blame the rest of the world looking at this as crazy as we are because we are the crazy one say, well, you guys got kind of crazy about a balloon, but well, that's a topic for another decade shade. i mean, you know, for me, ok, i can maybe something personal for people to understand is that because of the sanctions on swift what a why have to do ok?

i'm not going to let the u. s. government determined my financial sovereignty. so i go to a chinese bank. okay. i got around it. okay. and, and in the swiss system degrades itself because it's been mentioned on this program already. everybody's going to flee it because i don't want to be sanctioned. i didn't do anything. ok. collective punishment here. so say, i mean, the way the world has options and the ample number of options here. but this arrogance of the post war era in the west. they still think that everyone wants to be like them. well, you know what, we don't go ahead check. yeah, absolutely. and i think the other thing that's really important is this talk about seizing russian assets. ma'am, you know, it did, there is an international sort of community which operated fine. prior to this a, you know, event where we, you know, now now there's talk of seizing, you know, trillions of dollars basically. and, you know, other developing countries in nations are looking at the united states and say, look, i don't where you want to play with this guy anymore. because, you know,

if he likes my version of democracy, you know, he comes into my country in the hollow 70 inside. if he doesn't like it, you know, our president ends up hanging from a tree and our economy ends up destroys, you know, i've kind of started libya, syria, iraq, the, the list is endless. but i think what's really important as well to understand is that this war against russia, it's it from the anglo sphere, it's from the u. k. basically on it and, and united states. i mean, i still believe that there are intelligent and death, you know, pragmatic heads and parts of europe who are really worried about at his job or not with no breaks. i mean, we've, we've got, i think we're on the 10th sanctions package. and if you look at the, the 10th sanction package, and if the 1st sanction package was meant to cripple russia were on the 10th. well now that should tell policymakers and the populations of europe something alongside the weapons packages. i mean, where does it end? i mean, we started with, i think, you know, anti tank weapons on to the em triple 7 howitzer, which is going to be this wander waffa that was gonna solve the problem that it was

high mars, you know, now it say, you know, at the iron dome and it's the patriot systems, but, you know, as i said at the start, the russian people understand war. there's not a russian family and i've got family russian myself. there's not a family in russia who doesn't understand this, that he impacted this. and i think they're in this potentially for, for the long one. i just don't think europe and america have it in the tank. yeah. my, you know him, michael, is that it's one of the most fulfilling things for me because i, i just don't understand europe's behavior other than it. this coercion from washington and they use their lap dog in london to as an enforcer. ok. the must soul. ok. because it be the impact down europe. i mean, not only just economic here, but on civil liberties. again, freedom of speech, which is always been a bit wobbly in europe, but it's even more coerced right now. i mean it, it's, it's so puzzling, watching people work against their own interests. ok. and i hope people will say,

hey, enough is enough, but there's coersion, you can be cancelled. they can go take your bank account. i mean, this is very authoritarian, michael. yeah. well, we see it, we see it every day. i was talking to our mutual friend allister crook early this morning, and he can't even get our key in the e u at what so much for democracy, which was the basis for joining that organization along with nato. it's pathetic, and that's why you're seeing an acceleration by russia now with this, with the creation of the s p f f, or their version of the, of the switch system. and it's accelerating. now, maybe they're getting many, many customers, so that trade can go on. and basically the f s s f p s p s is basically the, the messaging system for the bank of russia. and it's, it's,

it's linking in with messaging systems with iran, china, and even even turkey. and it's growing with all these other countries. so this is the response to the sanctions that the united states have been imposing on everybody. yeah. and michael, that the key to american hegemony has always been the dollar, not tank. that's right, it's been monday. and now the challenge and now it's being challenger lucas. you know, i don't want to, you know, just pick your brain for military things. but since we have a veteran on the program here, how i've always thought, you know, sending these are military technologies to ukraine and it did, they actually work as well as they always claim because this is a per, you know, you can send it to iraq. afghanistan, you can fight herds been with, with, with a k 40 sevens, but you rush is

a peer power to the united states when it comes to conventional. i mean, when it, when they are, these weapons are going to be as effective as a lot of people think. because to, to date they haven't been, they're just going to melt like everything else. lucas? well, you know, there's talk of sending patriot missiles that you need 6 to 9 months of training and that's training. an american soldier who could speak english is going to be their language barrier. and are they even gonna get there in time? i mean, is russia kinda, you know, really crush ukraine soon and won't even get there. and so i just like we're supposed to, $731.00 abrams tanks are not going to get there with 9 months or so. so a lot of these countries i think are just telling ukraine we're going to look at lucas. ok, let's talk about those tanks. i mean, is that enough to change the course of the conflict? i mean, i, i'm not a military person, but when i think of, you know, hundreds and thousands of tanks and they're going to send in a couple doesn't, i mean, i don't get it. it's just a gesture. it's not going to do anything at all, even if that patriot missiles, even if we give them the best technology, even if we gave them $22.00 raptors,

we can't send all of them and we can't send enough to them. they're not going to get there in time. russia is going to start pushing really hard now, and everybody knows it. so, you know, these are just to me, gestures telling you, trying to keep fighting for the last you created because they are being sent to the slaughter. and i hope so we can russia and it's not working. and the wes knows it's not working. i just wish the ukrainians realize they're being played so they could stop. well, i think, you know, we say i think the, the, the, we have 50 seconds left here. i mean, there history will judge the leadership in care for bringing that, you know, because people talk, you know, ukraine's a victim know ukraine is a volunteer in this. they volunteered to be cannon fodder. 30 seconds, my friend in dublin. go ahead. yeah, i think we have to have really traced back to the origins of this conflict where, you know, ukraine assaulted its own people in the east. and, you know, russia could, of, and some of the suggest militarily should have gone over the border in 2014, when that happened. and this war would have been much shorter. but instead, a,

de facto nato army was created $10000.00 men a year. and the result was almost inevitable in my view. yeah, it, well, a history will judge a lot of people in power to day, very, very harshly for a conflict that never should have started in the 1st place in which russia tried very hard to avoid. and all the time we have gentlemen, i want to thank my guests in break washington. and in dublin, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here darky. see you next time remember prostitutes? ah ah ah, when i was sure seemed wrong when old fools just don't hold me, you will have to shave out disdain because the african and engagement

equals the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. the me ukrainian troops have resumed artillery, shelling of the city of dawn, nest and destroyed, and you're by gas pipeline. meanwhile, an archie crew observed the russian dreaming camp for local don about forces are taught the skills of modern warfare. also ahead, we have a long standing relationship with the soviet union over the union. whether i should partition, we will, by the way, but a bit of the india's oil minister tells our key that his country will continue to buy russian fuel as much as it wants. that is just by demands from western country to cut off.