to the my face as intelligence intelligence, people working with the british american. and they are very far from whom again, besides that no swift syria called putting from other guy the branches, syria, which called miss dollar. we hope at the end of the day we have the day, so i'm so sort of jump in. but we all hope with the end of the day that in the wake of this tragedy, and this is disaster of earthquakes, that politics will eventually be put to the side. and if managerial aid will be allowed to flow into syria, a bottom dollar, a political analyst joining us here on auto and national. thank you very much for your time today. we appreciate that. thank you. so russia's top diplomat, so again, love for off has confirmed increased cooperation with the african nation of more pania. while meeting with his counterpart. he said the main industry in focus between the 2 countries is fishing. as a foreign minister said,

he hopes the continued improvement of trade and ties and the other topics were security sovereignty regarding well, all sorts of future mutually beneficial contracts. here's a r t from the correspondent viewed a golf from the 1st stage of the russians to meticulous growth to the middle east africa. the foreign affairs arising shows the 1st visits by the head of russian diploma, 6 more retaining the subject of the 2 magic relations. the ticket abroad met his we're retaining and called home to them as well as the head of state of the stomach . public mohammedan shake, i guess my hearing today's talks with my friend ministers, her lover of us, we discussed in detail all the aspects of our bi lateral relations. we touched upon certain issues in the bilateral relations that we have some avenues where we can be more active for mutual interests. we also discussed some aspects of

the international agenda. we play as a special emphasis on those aspects that are of prayer in transform, murray, tanya, at the heart of the talks not only by let's relations and the strengthening of political dialogue, but also issues of the regional agenda such as the situation, africa and the questions related to these issues such as the settlement of the new conflict between syria and other subjects. so big remind you to bring our relations to a new level. we pay special attention to the trade and economy. the flagship project of our partnership is maritime facing russian fishing vassals annually they come to the marine, tanny is exclusive economic zone and we are straight full for giving them these privileged conditions in accordance with the premium that we have. and we have agreed on additional matchers to make this work as efficient as possible,

as comfortable as possible. apart from fishing, we don't have a lot to brag about. so we are going to focus our efforts on diverse if occasion foward trade and economic ties on looking for new avenues of corporation. after his what to visit to mercedes, to deliver off tables to saddam to meet his counterpart, ali, acidic break and use as our heroine oxy. international. in case you missed it will bring it back in half an hour's time. a legendary journalist in the united states says he knows who blew up russia's gnawed stream gas pipelines, details when we return, ah, ah .

the news news. hello and welcome to cross talk. we're all things considered. i'm peter live l. y in the west. so determined to continue it's ukraine, proxy war against russia. how does such a position benefit ukraine instead of considering possible peace agreements? the west led by washington seems to see war is the only option. why can't there be

security for all the cross talking war and peace. i'm joined by my guess. lucas gauge in brick. he is a us marine corps veteran author and philosopher in washington. we have michael ma loopy. as a former pentagon senior security policy analyst, and in dublin we have shape bows. he is an independent commentator, and writer are a gentleman, cross type rules and a fact that means you can jump in anytime you want. and that i always appreciate it, michael, let me go to you 1st here. i mean, there is ample evidence. now. we have the former israeli prime minister. we have the foreign ministry of turkey. we have the notorious visit of boris johnson early into the conflict that basically telling lensky, you know, you got to keep this thing going, or else we're not going to back you. so there is ample evidence that the west does not want to see a conclusion to this company because they could, they could just turn off the money, turn off the arms and it would be over. okay,

is, i mean, washington still believes maybe in a fantasy world, they believe in unicorns or something that they can determine the outcome of this conflict, michael, while they thought they could until they realize they couldn't. and now the desperate this, this whole episode is being driven by ideology, by our neoconservatives within the, by the administration. they are hell bent on, not only moving nato into into ukraine, but isolating if they can russia and they're not succeeding. and there's a lot of trepidation now occurring within, within the united states, increasing, i should say, we're not there yet to try and wonder what the well, just how long is this thing going to go and what's the whole point? and while it's focused on, on making sure ukraine quote, wins,

the reality is it's not. and also it's draining us financially, economically, and militarily, diplomatically and, and apparently we don't know how to stop this. the slippery slope on which we're all gliding on and nato is, is also waking up and smell in the coffee and they don't like it. yeah, look, it's, it's, it's very interesting. you've been in the military. it's very easy to start conflicts, isn't it? ok when, how to wind them up when you're not winning. and with all due respect to your background, the u. s. is not what a war since the 2nd world war here, but they continue to the same playbook here. and i'm glad michael mentioned nato, because i'm hoping that this will be the end of nato. it was supposed to never to get in a war it talk about unprovoked. i mean, they baited the russians into this conflict and now they're beginning to have 2nd thoughts. and if you look at what the hungarians are having to say the croatians,

it's beginning to, i think, the, those type of statements, doubting the this conflict really resonates to the rest of the european union. your thoughts, lucas? the, i think everyone's getting tired of this. nato, the u. s. u, they're all pushing way too hard, too quickly. they, as michael said, they thought they could probably win this war. now they're waking up the smell in the coffee and they're saying that it's not really that easy to weaken the fact couldn't. and everyone else surrounded his allies were getting stronger without us than people are starting to see that the united states cannot even be trusted anymore. so this whole thing is going to end up pretty bad for us here in the less than, you know, frankly i look forward to multiple world works much more fair rather than having this bullied my country. pushing people around with this rules based order, which is basically american exceptionalism, do whatever we want and no one else could do anything brush, it doesn't have their own security interest. you know, we have to push them into this war because we want to expand our influence. right?

yes. you know, show you that, you know, that's something i almost feel obligated to mention every time i talk about this is that, you know, the, in the west they talk about maybe there's a korean solution, a stalemate, an arm and says, all kinds of things like that and i dismiss it out of hand completely because the west doesn't understand the origins of this conflict. and it's very clear from the russian side, hey, the european architecture security architecture has failed us. we need to readdress it. we have given you ideas, they were dismissed out of hand here though the way the thing is going to end is going to have to recognize. so security demands here in the west doesn't seem to wake up to that. go ahead in dublin. yeah, absolutely. and as michael lucas bowed, say, and we have a problem in the west f with this sort of a long distance projection into, into ukraine. and it's a russia, if there's any nation on earth that understands what long war is and what the

impact to war. like with 26000000 people dead in the 2nd world war, i mean it's delusional to think that policy analysts, you know, in, at downing street on, in washington a, going to come up with these a solution. you've got to remember that the minsk and one and 2 chords are widely recognized as being the solution to this war before it ever happened. and we've learned recently and that, and you know, the west nato slash ukraine were sent to using as those accords to build this and nato de facto nato army on russia's board. so i think the idea that russia is going to buy into another sort of western lead solution if you like to the ukraine problem. and it is becoming a problem as a, as michael lucas barry i at pointedly at point out economically as socially. and, you know, particularly in europe, we're starting to see a mass of backlash against the refugees that are pouring into european countries am

so, you know, the idea that we're going to impose, or that there's going to be a modeling of some sort of solution. and is going to be put to russia and it makes this more and more likely in my view that russia is going to be more skeptical this time on a battlefield solution to this conflict. unfortunately, looks more likely as isaac ruins on. yeah, you know michael is go back to washington it's, i find a, i don't know if you read responsible statecraft, their website here, am i. and it's a curious mishmash of things. but you know, they're still this belief in american hegemony. we just have to, ah, i'm welded in a, in a more positive way robust emma diplomacy, i always say. but they're always saying it's in rushes interest. if they do this to this and this. i mean, the arrogance of that. okay. the, the russians interests have been completely dismissed. that's why we're here in the weight and the way we are because it, no one takes it seriously. will that now they have to start taking it seriously. michael? yes. well, it's, it's, it's happening now as we see it. there is

a concerted effort by mr. brewton and others in the east, through eurasia, to create this multi polar order it to get out from under that western sanctions, western financial reliance and, and the dollar and switch over so they can all begin to breathe and, and, and, and work together again because it's it's, it's the u. s. a gemini, and it's use of the economic weapon is what really, really did it. and i think that we're going to be seeing this accelerating. now, in the months to come look, the united states pushed the nato to expand. contrary to all agreements or at least a half a dozen agreements who warned them about it, they didn't listen and they don't and, and now we're seeing the consequences. but especially when your own security is at stake. and the u. s. been so far away and having to travel so far to create havoc

just doesn't appreciate what, what, what mr. newton was talking about. if we were next door to russia, they were to understand. yeah, look at so you know, george of can in the architect of contain mentoring the, the cold war. i don't think if he were alive today, he would be called a potent apologist. ok, but i mean, he said this way, back in the day, he was actually skeptical of nato being formed in the 1st place. ok, and then, and i think he died at the ripe old age of 101. and he was still saying, nato expansion is a very bad idea. so people will say on twitter, you know, the 4 of us are just puppets and all that. but the, one of the greatest geopolitical thinkers of all time, set it decades ago. lucas. you know, i mean look to people who call us apologists. they're just in my opinion, they're just either ignorant or they're trolls their box that can be napa box while they're psycho still understand war. i've been at war i wouldn't wish it upon

anybody. so i just don't want to see this war get worse, and it's probably going to get worse because we know a washington works. they always push too far. so those of us who want peace are called warmongers and apologists, while food has been offering peace during this entire conflict, where a zalinski has been rejected and even during christmas. so, you know, it tells you right there who's pushing what it's not. who's in the kremlin pushing for war. they responded to a genocide happening in a don bye way. but to sit there, let it happen. he sang, please stop this. all these records are broken. why should he trust the west? why should he say, trust anything? the west says at all. we know every one knows america will literally lie to invade your country. what makes you think that though you respect any deals they make with you? look how we treat our allies. we were friends, the saddam, that we killed saddam. we're friends with everyone will respect backstab everyone. so yeah, i don't think dimension. gadhafi. he did everything they wanted. they did everything they wanted. okay. and look what happened to him. i say, you know, the,

one of the things that really a real pet peeve of mine is unprovoked attack, unprovoked, unprovoked. while anyone watching this program that has any a, a scant knowledge of the conflict, your nose, this goes all the way back to the illegal code in 2014 in minsk, according to your message. go ahead. yeah, i mean of course, and i mean i just recently written a comprehensive article on that. and one of the main l. a lower level media at presenter in ireland just responded with 3 laughing faces. he didn't challenge the article because nobody wants to challenger debate with people like michael lucas, myself or yourself. they just want to insult us and, and try to suppress what we're trying to say. course, you know, nato itself should have disappeared when the warsaw pact disappeared. it was established, you know, post war to counter the soviet threat, but it didn't disappear. and i mean, this is did the jam and the colonel of this whole issue that you had this expanding and military a defense of alliance. and so i say say,

how can it be defensive in expanding and i've never heard of such an alliance the history. okay. it's ridiculous yet to go on by the whole american rules based order, as michael said earlier on, and the american rules based order as best as summarize the. so american makes the rules and it gives the orders and an america has been the engine in perpetuating of a more aggressive nato, as since the 2nd world war. and you know, so we had no plans to invade the soviet union at the end of the 2nd reward and assaulted cities with nuclear weapons, you know, operational thinkable, which winston churchill actually sort of dis. okay. and i have to have been here gentlemen, i have to germany, we have to go to hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on war and peace. stay with archy ah ah,

with ah ah ah, welcome back to cross sac were all things are considered on peter lavelle to remind you were discussing war and peace with

okay, let's go back to michael in washington in the 1st part of the program lucas and being a veteran of a military conflict said he wouldn't wish war upon anyone. and michael, you know, one of the things i find really disturbing is that this is not the, the, a 12th month of a conflict. it's, it's 8 years now. okay. it's been going on for a very, very long time. and i remember that on the day of the, the special military operation went, went through my mind is now you, the rest of ukraine is good. if i understand what the don bass went through after the shelling the blockade and the humiliation that those people had to experience, we all watched it on tv every single night. i mean, it was an ongoing complex, but most people in the west have no idea that that happened, no idea whatsoever. and the reason why i brought this up is that when we talk about it on this program in social media, you know, they want to suppress us, okay?

for talking about historical facts, historical truth, that is one of the biggest casualties of this conflict is shutting down free speech . michael. well, that's why the west controls its media. the way it does. we never got any of this of what was happening in the bus for the last 8 years in the western media. we might get an occasion a with, but nothing of the extreme that had been going on ever since. the east decided they didn't like the what happened in the under the coo and in 2014 you had a, you made a car, there was a comment made earlier about with nato expansion or what have you. and then the warsaw pact evaporating after the end of the cold war. what i'm seeing is a possibility that the collective security treaty organization could become the new

war self act. and because they've got to have something that will be able to counter this expansion, that seems to be continuing, obviously with been live and sweden, those countries within the c s t o, it's kind of our, our, you know, they have very in degrees of wanting to participate, but they have an article for which is equivalent to nato's article 5, where the tack on one is attack on all. and if the, if the federation is hit once again by heavy weapons from from ukraine. i think we're going to see at least, bella luce, coming into the act as a, as part of that commitment. and it will be brought on by the west. not, not because not by an initiative by russia or bella roost. but in response, as a, as an article for event, you know, it's a very good point because because look, as you know, at winston churchill famously said in iron curtain is descending all across europe

. he said that in fulton, missouri visiting the united states. but it's the west creating an iron curtain now, and it's, it's in every way it's economic, it's financial, it's diplomatic, it's informational. they're the ones that wants to shut off, they control. but by doing so, it's already been mentioned here in this program. the west is isolating itself. you know this, their self owning themselves. lucas? yeah. everything that the west is doing is harming itself from the sanctions. backfiring isolating itself. what again, one person mentioned earlier that the, the east is making its own financial that were bricks, namely, and saudi arabia is even considering joining and leaving the dollar. so that's the end of american edge money right there. so, you know, everything we're doing to hard pulling, and russia is just backfired on us and the west and europe as well. i mean, look at the united states, we all know we blow up the pipeline. we all know. and now germany is like,

well maybe maybe it was russia, maybe someone else start to see through this. yeah they're, they're start to realize that the america is just on hinge. they can't be trusted at all. and i don't blame, i don't blame the rest of the world looking at us. this is crazy. we are because we are the crazy one say, well, you guys got kind of crazy about a balloon, but will that's a topic for another day of a k. i ha, i mean, you know, at the, for me, okay, i can sit and may be of something personal for people to understand. is that because of the sanctions on swift? what a why have to do ok? i'm not going to let the u. s. government determine my financial sovereignty, so i go to a chinese bank. okay. i got a round it. okay. and, and the in the swift system degrades itself because it is been mentioned on this program already. everybody's going to flee it because i don't want to be sanction. i didn't do anything. ok. collective punishment here. so say, i mean the way the world has options in the ample number of options here. but this arrogance of the post war air in the west. they still think that everyone wants to

be like them. well, you know what, we don't go ahead, shane. yeah, absolutely. and i think the other thing is very important is, is talk about seizing russian assets. and, you know, there is an international sort of community which operated fine. prior to this, sir, you know, event where we, you know, now now there's talk of seizing, you know, trillions of dollars basically. and, you know, other developing countries in nations are looking at the united states and say, look, i don't where you want to play with this guy anymore. because, you know, if he likes my version of democracy, you know, he comes in to my country and he allison me inside. if he doesn't like it, you know, our president ends up hanging from a tree and our economy ends up destroys, you know, of canister, olivia, siri, iraq, the list is endless. but i think what's really important as well to understand is that this war against russia, it's it from the anglo sphere. it's from the u. k. basically. and, and, and united states. i mean, i still believe that there are intelligent and they're,

you know, pragmatic heads and prior to your approve are really worried about at his job renault with no breaks. i mean, we've, we've got, i think we're on to the 10th sanctions package. and if you look at the, the 10th sanction package, and if the 1st sanction packet was meant to cripple russia were on the 10th. well now that you'd tell policymakers and the population to europe, something alongside the weapons packages. i mean, where does it end? i mean, we started with, i think, you know, anti tank weapons onto the m triple 7 howitzer, which is going to be this wonder wafaa that was gonna solve the problem that it was timers. you know, now it's, you know, the iron dome and it's the patriot systems. but, you know, as i said at the start, the russian people understand war. there's not a russian family and i've got family and myself, there's not a, a family in russia who doesn't understand this at the impact of this. and i think they're in this potentially for, for the long one. i just don't think europe and america have it in the tank. yeah.

you know michael, that it's one of the most. funneling things for me because i, i just don't understand europe's behavior other than it this coercion from washington and they use their lap dog in london do as an enforcer. ok as the muscle . ok. because the impact down europe. i mean, not only just economic here, but on civil liberties. again, freedom of speech, which is always been a bit wobbly in europe, but it's even more coerced right now. i mean, it's, it's, it's so puzzling, watching people work against their own interests. ok. and i hope people will say, hey, enough is enough, but there is coercion. you can be cancel, they can go take your bank account. i mean, this is very authoritarian, michael. yeah. well, we see it. we see it every day. i was talking to our mutual friend allister crook early this morning, and he can't even get our key in the e u at what so much for democracy, which was the basis for joining that organization along with nato. it's pathetic,

and that's why you're seeing an acceleration by russia now with this, with the creation of the s p f f, or their version of the, of the swiss system. and it's accelerating. i mean, they're getting many, many customers. so that trade can go on. and basically the f s s f p p s is basically the, the messaging system for the bank of russia. and it's, it's, it's linking in with messaging systems with iran, china, and even even turkey. and it's growing with all these other countries. so this is the response to the sanctions that the united states have been imposing on everybody. yeah. and michael, that the key to american hegemony has always been the dollar,

not tank. that's right, it's been monday. and now it is in challenge. and now it's being challenger lucas, you know, i don't wanna, you know, just pick your brain for military things. but since we have a veteran on the program here, how i've always thought, you know, sending these are a military technologies to ukraine and it did, they actually work as well as they always claim because this is a for, you know, you can send it to iraq afghanistan, you can fight herds been with, with, with a k 40 sevens, but you rush is a peer power to the united states when it comes to conventional. i mean, when it, when it are these weapons are going to be as effective as a lot of people think because to date they haven't been, they're just going to melt like everything else. lucas? well, you know, there is talk of sending patriot missiles that you need 6 to 9 months of training and that's training. an american soldier who could speak english is going to be their language barrier. and are they even gonna get there in time? i mean, is russia kinda, you know, really crush ukraine soon?

i won't even get there in time just like we're supposed to. 731 abrams tanks are not going to get there. and with 9 months or so, a lot of these countries i think are just telling ukraine we're going to look at lucas. ok, let's talk about those tanks. i mean, is that enough to change the course of the conflict? i mean, i, i'm not a military person, but when i think of, you know, hundreds and thousands of tanks and i'm going to send in a couple doesn't, i mean, i don't get it it's, it's just a gesture. it's not going to do anything at all. even if that patriot missiles, even if we give him the best technology, even if we gave him f 22 raptors, we can't send all of them and we can't send enough with them. they're not going to get their time. russia is going to start pushing really hard now, and everybody knows it. so, you know, these are just to me, gestures telling you, trying to keep fighting for the last ukrainian because they are being sent to the slaughter and hopes that we can russia. and it's not working and the west knows it's not working. i just wish the ukrainians realized are being played so they could stop. well i think, you know, ha, i think the, the, the, the, we have 50 seconds left here. i mean,

there history will judge the leadership in care of for bringing then, you know, because people talk, you know, ukraine's a victim no ukraine as a volunteer in this. they volunteered to be cannon fodder. 30 seconds, my friend in dublin. go ahead. yeah, i think we have to have really traced back to the origins of this conflict where, you know, ukraine assaulted its own people in the east. and, you know, russia could, of, and some of the suggest militarily, should've gone over the border in 2014. when that happened, and this war would have been much shorter, but instead, a de facto nato army was created $10000.00 men a year. and the result was almost inevitable in my view. yeah, it, well, a history will judge a lot of people in power to day, very, very harshly for a conflict that never should have started in the 1st place in which russia tried very hard to avoid and all the time we have gentlemen, i want to thank my guests in break washington and in dublin, and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here. darky. see an exam,

remember prostitutes ah, ah, ah, ah, museums are important for preserving our history so that it is a lot to future generations. but our physical museums, places themselves a relic of the past. this is one of the best museums in the world are human touch and st. petersburg. how rough he is, the director here, and i bet he has met with it is breaking news that our naughty international as an award winning journalist from america, revealed a u. s. knoll, which an operation to attack russian gas.