place homes and buildings destroyed over to r t dot com for the very latest we are across the big developments there. and finally, a run has a brand new or a base located entirely on de groaned on, reportedly immune to any attack. that basis had to be set deep inside the graph mountain range in the west of the country and is able to host fighter jets as well as remotely controlled and the treat drones as well as having all the necessary facilities. a traditional base offers such as number of hangers and maintenance fights. it's out of sight from prying eyes on, shielded by concrete and rock. the compound was visited by 2 runs, top military commander to claim it can withstand any attack from around a potential enemy art contributor, use of jolly intel on has more on the capabilities of this new base of its connection to recent geo politics playing it in the region,

it's the 44th anniversary of the islamic revolution and iran usually unveiled slade as domestically built equipment from military equipment to other industries as well . and this comes to mark of course, the 44th anniversary of the victory of these romans revolution. this saw major air base called off chad or char on the person for eagles 40 for it. one has build this a civil 100 meters under and mountain, an unknown, of course area inside the country withstanding any threats by the time of the regime or by the united states of america. this comes also against the backdrop of the recent enjoyed military exercise conducted by israel and america, where they use their so called bunker buster missiles, which they claim can penetrate and break through even concrete buildings. so iran also unveiled the students sent a signal to the us to send a single to israel, that it's recently developed. it's recently built in air base. can also withstand

those bunker buster missiles among b, for fighter jets that are present, decide that on their round air base is mostly they're mostly russian made. and russia supplied make and so forth. fire just including some of chinese f 70. some is a taft 2. the developing ties, military ties between one in russia, between one and china. lots are locked for an hour from the newsroom, but the cross talk gang are just about to get going. and today peter is asking why our piece talks proving so loose of in the ukraine. that is right. ah ah, with a

ah with ah ah hello and welcome to cross stock where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle . why is the west so determined to continue its ukraine proxy war against russia

act? how does such a position benefit ukraine instead of considering possible peace agreements? the west led by washington seems to see war is the only option. why can't there be security for all? ah, cross sucking war and peace, i'm joined by my guest lucas gauge and brick. he is a us marine corps veteran author and philosopher in washington. we have michael maloof. he is a former pentagon senior security policy analyst. and in dublin we have shape bows . he is an independent commentator and writer are a gentleman, cross hoc rolls, in fact, that means you can jump in any time you want. and that i always appreciated, michael, let me go to you 1st here. i mean there's ample evidence now. we have the former israeli prime minister, we have the foreign ministry of turkey. we have the notorious, is it a boris johnson early into the conflict that basically telling us zalinski,

you know, you gotta keep this thing going, or else we're not going to back you. so there's ample evidence that the west does not want to see conclusion to this company because they could, they could just turn off the money, turn off the arms, and it would be over. okay. does that mean washington still believes maybe in a fantasy world, they believe in unicorns or something that they can determine the outcome of this conflict. michael, while they thought they could until they realized they couldn't. and now they're desperate this, this whole episode is been driven by ideology, by our neoconservatives within the, by the administration. they are hell bent on, not only moving nato into into ukraine, but isolating if they can russia and they're not succeeding. and there's a lot of trepidation now occurring within, within the united states, increasing, i should say, we're not there yet to try and wonder what the well,

just how long is this thing going to go and what's the whole point? and while it's focused on, on making sure ukraine to quote wins, the reality is it's not. and also it's draining us financially, economically, and militarily, diplomatically and, and apparently we don't know how to stop this. the slippery slope on which we're all gliding on and nato is, is also waking up and smell in the coffee and they don't like it. yeah, look, it's, it's, it's very interesting. you've been in the military. it's very easy to start conflicts, isn't it? ok, but how to wind them up when you're not winning. and with all due respect to your background, the u. s. is not what a war since the 2nd world war here, but they continue to the same playbook here. and i'm glad michael mentioned nato, because i'm hoping that this will be the end of nato. it was,

it was supposed to never to get in a war. it talk about unprovoked. i mean, they baited the russians into this conflict and now they're beginning to have 2nd thoughts. and if you look at what the hungarians are having to say the croatians, it's beginning to, i think the, the, those type of statements, doubting the this conflict really resonates to the rest of the european union. your thoughts, lucas? yeah, i think everyone's getting tired of this nato, the u. s. u, they're all pushing way too hard too quickly. they, as michael said, they thought they could probably win this war. now they're waking up, the smell in the coffee and they're seeing that it's not really that easy to. we conclude fact couldn't. and everyone else surrounded his allies were getting stronger without us. and people are starting to see that the united states cannot even be trusted anymore. so this whole thing is going to end up pretty bad for us here in the less than, you know, frankly, i look forward to multiple, the world works much more fair rather than having this bullied my country. pushing people around with this rules based order, which is basically american exceptionalism, do whatever we want,

and no one else could do anything. russia doesn't have their own security interests . you know, we have to push them into this war because we want to expand our influence. restaurants and yes, you know, show you that, you know, that's something i almost feel obligated to mention every time i talk about this is that, you know, the, in the, in the west they talk about maybe there's a korean solution, a stalemate, an arm and says, all kinds of things like that, and i dismiss it out of hand completely because the west doesn't understand the origins of this conflict. and it's very clear from the russian side, hey, the european architecture security architecture has failed us. we need to readdress it. we have given you ideas, they were dismissed out of hand here though the way the thing is going to end is going to have to recognize. so security demands here in the west doesn't seem to wake up to that. go ahead in dublin. yeah, absolutely. and as michael lucas both sate and we have

a problem in the west f with this sort of a long distance projection into, into ukraine. and it's a russia, if there's any nation on earth that understands what long war is and what the impacts of war. like with 26000000 people dead in the 2nd world war. i mean, it's delusional to think that policy analysts, you know, in, at downing street on, in washington a, going to come up with these a solution. you've got to remember that the minsk and one and 2 chords are widely recognized as being the solution to this war before it ever happened. and we've learned recently and that, and you know, the west nato slash ukraine were sent to using as those accords to build this and nato de facto natal army on russia's board. so i think the idea that russia is going to buy into another sort of western lead solution if you like to the ukraine problem. and it is becoming a problem as a, as michael lucas barry at pointedly at point out economically as socially. and,

you know, particularly in europe, we're starting to see a mass of backlash against the refugees that are pouring into european countries. and so, you know, the idea that we're going to impose, or that there's going to be a modeling of some sort of solution. and is going to be put to russia and it makes this more and more likely in my view that russia is going to be more skeptical this time on a battlefield solution to this conflict. unfortunately, looks more likely as isaac ruins on. yeah, you know michael is go back to washington it's, i find a, i don't know if you read responsible statecraft, their website here, am i. and it's a curious mishmash of things. but you know, they're still this belief in american hegemony. we just have to, um, i'm welded in a, in a more positive way robust emma diplomacy, i always say, but they're always saying it's in rushes interest. if they do this to this and this . i mean, the arrogance of that. okay. the, the russians interest have been completely dismissed. that's why we're here in the

weight and the way we are because if no one takes it seriously, will that now they have to start taking it seriously. michael? yes. well, it's, it's, it's happening now as we see it. there is a concerted effort by mr. brewton and others in the east, through eurasia, to create this multi polar order to get out from under that. a western sanctions, western a financial, a reliance, and, and the dollar and switch over so they can all begin to breathe and, and, and, and, and work together again because it's, it's, it's the u. s. a gemini, and it's use of act. the economic weapon is what we really, really did it, and i think that we're going to be seeing this accelerating. now, in the months to come look, the united states pushed the nato to expand contrary to all agreements or at least a half a dozen agreements. hooton's warn them about it,

they didn't listen and they don't and that and, and now we're seeing the consequences. but especially when your own security is at stake. and the u. s. been so far away and having to travel so far, to create havoc. this doesn't appreciate when what the, what mister putin was talking about. if we were next door to russia, they would understand. yeah, look as see, you know, a ga can in the architect of contain mentoring the, the cold war. i don't think it if he were alive today, he would be called a potent apologise. okay. but i mean, he said this way, back in the day, he was actually skeptical of nato being formed in the 1st place. okay. and then, and i think he died at the ripe old age of a 101. and he was still saying nato expansion is a very bad idea. so people will say on twitter, you know, the 4 of us are just puppets and all that. but the one of the greatest geopolitical thinkers of all times said it decades ago. lucas? yeah, i mean look people who call us apologist sturgess in my opinion,

they're just either ignorant order trolls or box that could be napa box or their cycle still understand war. i've been at war, i wouldn't wish it upon anybody. so i just don't want to see this war get worse, and it's probably going to get worse because we know a washington works. they always push too far. so those of us who want peace are called warmongers and apologists, while food has been offering peace during this entire conflict, where a zalinski has been rejected and even during christmas. so, you know, it tells you right there who's pushing what it's not. who's in the kremlin pushing for war. they responded to a genocide happening in a don bus waste. but to sit there, let it happen. he sang, please stop this. all these records are broken. why should he trust the west? why should he say, trust anything? the west says at all. we know every one knows america will literally lie to invade your country. what makes you think that though you respect any deals they make with you? look how we treat our allies. we were friends, the saddam, that we killed saddam. we're friends with everyone will respect backstab everyone.

so yeah, i don't get dimension gadhafi. he did everything they wanted. they did. he did everything they wanted. okay. and look what happened to him, i say, you know, the, one of the things that really a real pet peeve of mine is unprovoked attack on programs unprovoked. will anyone watching this program that has any a, a scant knowledge of the conflict? you know, as this goes all the way back to the illegal code in 2014 in minsk, according to your message, go ahead. yeah, i mean of course, and i mean i just recently written a comprehensive article on that. and one of the main l, a lower level media at presenter in ireland just responded with 3 laughing faces. he didn't challenge the article was nobody wants to challenger debate with people like michael lucas, myself or yourself. they just want to insult us and, and tried to suppress what we're trying to say. force, you know, nato itself should have disappeared when the warsaw pact disappeared. it was established, you know, post war to counter a, the soviet threat,

but it didn't disappear. and i mean, this is, did the jam and the colonel of this whole issue that you had this expanding and military a defense of alliance. and so i say say, how can it be defensive in expanding? and i mean, i've never heard of such an alliance in history. okay. that's ridiculous yet to go on by the whole american rules based order, as michael said earlier on, and the american rules based order as best as summarize the. so american makes the rules and it gives the orders and an america has been the engine in perpetuating of a more aggressive nato, as since the 2nd world war. and you know, so we had no plans to invade the soviet union at the end of the 2nd reward and assault at cities with nuclear weapons, you know, operational, thinkable, which winston churchill actually sort of dis. okay. and i have to have been here gentlemen, i have to germany, we have to go to hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on war and peace. stay with our team.

ah, ah ah, museums are important for preserving our history so that it is a lot to future generations. but our physical museum spaces themselves a relic of the past. this is one of the best museums in the world or from a touch of st. petersburg. how ruskie is the director here and i bet he has smith. i welcome back to cross talk. we're all things considered. i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing war and peace. ah, ah. okay, let's go back to michael in washington in the 1st part of the program lucas and being a veteran of military conflict, said he wouldn't wish war upon any one. and michael, you know,

one of the things i find really disturbing is that this is not the 12 month of a conflict. it's, it's 8 years now. okay. it's been going on for a very, very long time. and i remember the non, the day of the, the special military operation went through my mind is now you, the rest of ukraine is going to understand what the don bass went through. after the shelling the blockade, the humiliation that those people had to experience. we all watch it on tv every single night. i mean, it was an ongoing complex, but most people in the west have no idea. bet that happened, no idea whatsoever. and the reason why i brought this up is that when we talk about it on this program in social media, you know, they want to suppress us. ok for talking about historical facts. historical truth, that is one of the biggest casualties of this conflict is shutting down free speech . michael. well,

that's why the west controls its media. the way it does. we never got any of this of what was happening in the bus for the last 8 years in the western media. we might get an occasional with, but nothing of the extreme that had been going on ever since. the east decided they didn't like the what happened in the under the crew and in 2014 you had a, you made a car, there was a comment made earlier about with nato expansion and what have you. and then the warsaw pact evaporating after the end of the cold war. what i'm seeing is a possibility that the collective security treaty organization could become the new war self act. and because they've got to have something that will be able to counter this expansion, that seems to be continuing, obviously with been live and sweden, those countries within the c s t o it's going to are, are, you know,

they have varying degrees of wanting to participate but they have an article for which is equivalent to nato's article 5. when attack on one is attack on all. and if the, if the federation is hit once again by heavy weapons from, from ukraine, i think we're going to see at least, bella luce, coming into the act as a, as part of that commitment. and it will be brought on by, by the west not, not because not by an initiative by russia or bell roost. that in response as a, as an article for event. you know, it's a very good point because because lucas, you know, at winston churchill famously said, an iron curtain is descending all across europe. he said that in fulton, missouri visiting the united states. but it's the west creating an iron curtain now . and it's, it's in every way it's economic, it's until it's diplomatic,

it's it informational. they're the ones that wants to shut off them control. but by doing so, and it's already been mentioned here in this program. the west is isolating itself . um, you know this, their, their self owning themselves. lucas? yeah. everything that the west is doing is harming itself from the sanctions. backfiring isolating itself. we're again, one person mentioned earlier that the, the east is making its own a financial network bricks, namely, and in saudi arabia, is either considering joining and leaving the dollar. so that's the end of american hedge. i'm only right there. so, you know, everything we're doing to harpoon and russia is just backfired on us and the west and europe as well. we look at the united states, we all know we blow the pipeline. i'm a we olds now and now germany is like, well maybe maybe it wasn't russia. maybe someone else got to start to see through this. yeah, there, there start to realize that the market is just on hand. i can't be trusted at all. and i don't blame, i don't blame the rest of the world. looking honest, this is crazy as we are because we are the crazy one say, well,

you guys got kind of crazy about a balloon, but will, that's a topic for another day of asian, a shea. i mean, you know, the, for me. okay. i can say may be of something personal for people to understand is that because of the sanctions on swift? what a why have to do ok? i'm not going to let the u. s. government determined my financial sovereignty. so i go to a chinese bank. okay. i got a round it okay. and and, and the in the swift system degrades itself because it is been mentioned on this program already. everybody's going to flee it because i don't want to be sanction. i didn't do anything. ok. collective punishment here. so say, i mean the way the world has options in the ample number of options here. but this arrogance of the post war air in the west. they still think that everyone wants to be like them. well, you know what, we don't go ahead, shane. yeah, absolutely. and i think the other thing that's very important is, is talk about seizing russian assets. them, you know, it,

there is an international so the community which operated fine at prior to this a, you know, event where we, you know, now now there's talk of seizing, you know, trillions of dollars basically. and, you know, other developing countries in nations are looking at the united states and say, look, i don't where you want to play with this guy anymore. because you know, if he likes my version of democracy, you know, he comes into my country and eat allison from the inside. if he doesn't like it, you know, our president ends up hanging from a tree and our economy ends up destroys. you know, i've got to start libya, syria rack, the list is endless. but i think what's really important as well to understand is that this war against russia, it's it from the anglo sphere from the u. k. basically and, and united states. i mean, i still believe that there are intelligent and dare you know pragmatic heads and parts of europe who are really worried about at his job or not with no breaks. i mean, we've, we've got, i think we're on to the 10th sanctions package. and if you look at the,

the 10th sanction package, and if the 1st sanctioned package was meant to cripple russia were on the 10th. well now that should tell policy makers and the population to europe, something alongside the weapons packages. i mean, where does it end? i mean, we started with, i think, you know, anti tank weapons on to the m triple 7 howitzer, which was going to be this wander wafa that was going to solve the problem that it was high mars, you know, now it say, you know, at the iron dome and it's the patriot systems. but, you know, as i said at the start, the russian people understand war. there's not a russian family and i've got family in russia myself. there's not a, a family in russia who doesn't understand this at the impact of this. and i think they're in this potentially for the long one. i just don't think europe and america have it in the tank. yeah. my, you know, in michael is that it's, it's one of the most fulfilling things for me because i, i just don't understand europe's behavior other than it is coercion from washington . and they use their lap dog in london too, as an enforcer. okay. must sole ok. because it be the impact down europe. i mean,

not only just the konami here, but on civil liberties. again, freedom of speech, which is always been a bit wobbly in europe, and it's even more coerced right now. i mean it's, it's, it's so puzzling, watching people work against their own interests. ok. and i hope people will say, hey, enough is enough, but there is coersion. you can be cancel, they can go take your bank account. i mean, this is very authoritarian, michael. yeah. well, we see it, we see it every day. i was talking to our mutual friend allister crook early this morning and he can't even get our key. and in the e u at what so much for democracy, which was the basis for joining that organization along with nato. it's pathetic. and that's why you're seeing an acceleration by russia now with this, with the creation of the s p f f, or their version of the,

of the switch system. and it's accelerating. i mean, they're getting many, many customers. so that trade can go on. and basically the f s s f p s p s is basically the, the messaging system for the bank of russia. and it's, it's, it's linking in with messaging systems with iran, china, and even even turkey. and it's growing with all these other countries. so this is the response to the sanctions that the united states have been imposing on everybody. yeah. and michael did the key to american hegemony has always been the dollar, not tank. that's right, it's been monday, and now he's been challenged and now it's being challenger lucas. you know, i don't want to know you just pick your brain for military things, but since we have a veteran on the program here, how i've always thought, you know,

sending these are a military technologies to ukraine and it did, they actually work as well as they always claim because this is a per, you know, you can send it to iraq. afghanistan, you can fight herds been with, with, with a k 40 sevens, but you rush is a peer power to the united states when it comes to conventional. i mean, when it, when are these weapons are going to be as effective as a lot of people think because to date they haven't been, they're just going to melt like everything else. lucas? well, you know, there's talk of sending patriot missiles that you need 6 to 9 months of training and that's training. an american soldier who could speak english is going to be their language barrier. and are they going to get there in time? i mean, is russia kinda, you know, really crush ukraine soon? i won't even get there. and i just like we're supposed to send 31 abrams tanks, they're not going to get there. and with 9 months or so, a lot of these countries i think are just telling ukraine we're going to look at lucas. ok, let's talk about those tanks. i mean,

is that enough to change the course of the conflict? i mean, i, i'm not a military person, but when i think of, you know, hundreds and thousands of tanks and they're going to send in a couple dozen. i mean, i don't get it. it's just a gesture. it's not going to do anything at all, even if that patriot missiles, even if we give him the best technology, even if we gave him $22.00 routers. we can't send all of them and we can't send them to them. they're not going to get there in time. russia is going to start pushing really hard now, and everybody knows it. so, you know, these are just to me, gestures telling you, trying to keep fighting for the last you created because they are being sent to the slaughter. and i hope so, we can russia and it's not working in the west nose. it's not working. i just wish the ukrainians realize they're being played so they can stop. well i think, you know, you say i think the, the, the, we have 50 seconds left here. i mean, history will judge the leadership in care for bringing that, you know, because people talk, you know, ukraine's evicted no ukraine is a volunteer in this. they volunteered to be cannon fodder. 30 seconds,

my friend in dublin. go ahead. yeah, i think we have to really trace back to the origins of this conflict where, you know, ukraine assaulted its own people in the east. and, you know, russia could, of, and some of the suggest militarily, should've gone over the border in 2014. when that happened. and this war would have been much shorter, but instead, a de facto nato army was created $10000.00 men a year. and the result was almost inevitable in my view. yeah, it, well, a history will judge a lot of people in power to day, very, very harshly for a conflict that never should have started in the 1st place in which russia tried very hard to avoid and all the time we have gentlemen, i want to thank my guests in break washington and in dublin, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here darky. see you next time. remember rostock with

some nations may be able to turn a blind eye to atrocities and other countries. the united states of america is different. wearable people long to be free, they will find a friend in the united states. ah, with deep pro law, we have it out by the body bolts. anybody phasing since only city p draw? you look at the book they incentives of each cigarette. color revolutions is one among several means to reach the goal of conquering foreign lands and bringing them onto the helm of usaa weston, economic interests. people inside it, i don't that he did to that group valley did immigrants? yeah. during the training course. so no,

we just say low their softball emery can. the final goal of these seeing revolutions is to ensure that there are no independent players in the world anymore . ah, ball michelle revelation is from american pew let's or award winning journalist who concludes in his investigation that the us blew off the russian nord stream gas pipeline. it was reportedly down under the guise of nic. so naval drills in the baltic sea in order to cover admissions tracks. also ad on the program this, our syrian are a bred crescent, say, sanctions imposed on damascus. prevent vital age deliveries from getting to the country after devastating earthquakes leave at least 1600 people dead in the middle eastern nation. your request has been denied.