is or has increased about this, we wanted to go to one. i'm at is for gordie gibbs and the out the money piece. and they do out the government many, willis. he told us what his officers had been to plight to protect the members of the parliament in the cabinet ministers and back to protect the pow wow. run has a new or base located entirely underground on reportedly immune to any attack. the base is said to be set deep inside is our gross mountain range in the west of the country and is able to host fighter jets as well as remotely control military drones, as well as having all the necessary facilities. the traditional ur bass offers such as a number of hangers and maintenance sites. it's out of sight from prying eyes on, shielded by concrete and rock. the compound was visited by to runs. top military

commanders should claim it can withstand any attack from a runs. a 10 chill enemies when our t contribute sure you serve jelly and turan has more on the capabilities all of the new base and it's connection to geopolitical concerns playing out in the region. it's the 4th and 4th anniversary of the islamic revolution and iran. usually a latest domestically built equipment from military equipment to other industries as well. and this comes to mark of course, the 44th anniversary of the victory of islam and revolution. there saw major airbase called off chad or char on the person for equal to 40 for it. one has build this are several 100 meters under and mountain. an unknown, of course, area inside the country withstanding any threats by the time of the regime or by the united states of america. this comes also against a backdrop of that we send joy military exercise conducted by israel and america

where they use their so called bunker buster missiles, which they claim can penetrate and break through even concrete buildings. so iran also on build this to send a signal to the west to send a signal to israel that it's recently developed. it's recently built in air base can also withstand those bunker buster missiles among the projects that are present decide that on the ground air base is mostly they're mostly rushing made and russian supplied make and so forth. fire just including some of chinese f 70. some is a taft to the developing ties, military ties between one and russia, between one and china. well, that's where we sign off for another from a busy news our but our programs, we're just getting started. so you ought to not for wherever you are today, right? down for the shortest i'm brings,

this is words with a ah, ah, ah, ah, hello and welcome to crosstalk, where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle. why is the west so determined to continue its ukraine proxy war against russia act? how does such a position benefit ukraine instead of considering possible peace agreements? the west led by washington, seems to see war is the only option. why can't there be security for all

ah cross sucking war and peace. i'm joined by my guess. lucas gauge and brick. he is a u. s. marine corps veteran author and philosopher and washington. we have michael maloof. he is a former pentagon senior security policy analyst. and in dublin we have shape bows . he is an independent commentator and writer, or a gentleman cross off rules that affect that means you can jump any time you want. and that i always appreciated, michael, let me go to you 1st here. i mean there's ample evidence. now. we have the former israeli prime minister, we have the foreign ministry of turkey. we have the notorious, is it a boris johnson early into the conflict that basically telling us zalinski, you know, you gotta keep this thing going, or else we're not going to back you. so there's ample evidence that the west does not want to see conclusion to this company because they could, they could just turn off the money, turn off the arms, and it would be over. okay. does that mean washington still believes maybe in

a fantasy world, they believe in unicorns or something that they can determine the outcome of this conflict. michael, while they thought they could until they realize they couldn't. and now they're desperate. this, this whole episode is being driven by ideology, by our neoconservatives within the, by the administration. they are hell bent on, not only moving nato into into ukraine, but isolating if they can russia and they're not succeeding. and there's a lot of trepidation now occurring within, within the united states, increasing, i should say, we're not there yet to try and wonder what the well, just how long is this thing going to go and what's the whole point? and while it's focused on, on making sure ukraine quote, wins, the reality is it's not. and also it's draining us financially,

economically, and militarily, diplomatically and, and apparently we don't know how to stop this. the slippery slope on which we're all gliding on and nato is, is also waking up and smell in the coffee and they don't like it. yeah, look, it's, it's, it's very interesting. you've been in the military. it's very easy to start conflicts, isn't it? ok when, how to wind them up when you're not winning. and with all due respect to your background, the u. s. is not one of war since the 2nd world war here, but they continue to the same playbook here. and i'm glad michael mentioned nato, because i'm hoping that this will be the end of nato. it was supposed to never get in a war. it talk about unprovoked. i mean, they baited the russians into this conflict, and now they're beginning to have 2nd thoughts. and if you look at what the hungarians are having to say the probations,

it's beginning to i think the those type of statements, doubting the this conflict really resonates to the rest of the european union. your thoughts, lucas? yeah, i think everyone's getting tired of this. nato, the u. s. u, they're all pushing way too hard, too quickly. they, as michael said, they thought they could probably win this war. now they're waking up, the smell in the coffee and they're seeing that it's not really that easy to, we can put in a fact couldn't, and everyone else around it is allies are getting stronger without us. and people are starting to see that the united states cannot even be trusted anymore. so this whole thing is going to end up pretty bad for us here in the less than, you know, frankly, i look forward to the multi polar world works much more fair rather than having this bullied my country. pushing people around with this rules based order, which is basically american exceptionalism, do whatever we want, but no one else could do anything brush, it doesn't have their own security interests. you know, we have to push them into this war because we want to expand our influence restaurants and yes, you know, show you that, you know,

that's something i almost feel obligated to mention every time i talk about this is that, you know, the, in the west they talk about maybe there's a korean solution, a stalemate, an arm and says, all kinds of things like that. and i dismiss it out of hand completely because the west doesn't understand the origins of this conflict. and it's very clear from the russian side, hey, the european architecture security architecture has failed us. we need to readdress it. we've given you ideas they were dismissed out of hand. here though, the way the thing is going to end is going to have to recognize. so security demands here in the west doesn't seem to wake up to that. go ahead and dublin. yeah, absolutely. and does michael lucas both say, and we have a problem in the west f with this sort of a long distance projection into, into ukraine. and it's a russia, if there's any nation on earth that understands what long war is and what the impact to war. like with 26000000 people dead in the 2nd world war,

i mean it's delusional to think that policy analysts, you know, in at downing street on, in washington are going to come up with these a solution. you got to remember that the minsk and one and 2 records are widely recognized as being the solution to this war before it ever happened. and we've learned recently and that, and you know, the west nato slash ukraine were sent to using as those chords to build this and nato de facto natal army on russia's board. so i think the idea that russia is going to buy into another sort of western lead solution if you like to the ukraine problem. and it is becoming a problem as a, as michael lucas barry a at pointedly at point out economically as socially. and, you know, particularly in europe, we're starting to see a massive backlash against the refugees that are pouring into european countries. and so, you know, the idea that we're going to impose, or that there's going to be

a modeling of some sort of solution. and it's going to be put to russia, and it makes this more and more likely, in my view that russia is going to be more skeptical this time on a battlefield solution to this conflict. and fortunately, looks more likely as isaac ruins on. yeah, you know michael is go back to washington it's, i find it, i don't know if you read responsible statecraft, their website here, am i. and it's a curious mishmash of things. but you know, they're still this belief in american hegemony. we just have to, i'm a, i'm welded in a, in a more positive way robust m a diplomacy always say, but they're always say it's in rushes interest. if they do this to this and this, i mean, the arrogance of that, okay. the, the russians interests have been completely dismissed. that's why we're here in the weight and the way we are because it, no one takes it seriously. will that now they have to start taking it seriously. michael? yes. well it's, it's, it's happening now as we see it. there is a concerted effort by mr. newton and others in the east through your asia to create

this multi polar order it to get out from under that western sanctions, western financial reliance and, and the dollar and switch over. so they can. busy begin to breathe and, and, and, and work together again because it's, it's, it's the u. s. a gemini, and it's use of the economic weapon is what really, really did it. and i think that we're going to be seeing this accelerating. now, in the months to come look, the united states pushed the nato to expand contrary to all agreements or at least a half a dozen agreements who warned them about it. they didn't listen and they don't and, and now we're seeing the consequences. but especially when your own security is at stake, and the u. s. been so far away and having to travel so far, to create havoc,

just doesn't appreciate what, what, what mr. newton was talking about. if we were next door to russia, they were to understand. yeah, look at so, you know, george, jeff can in the architect of contain mentoring the, the cold war. i don't think if he were alive today, he would be called the potent apologists. ok, but i mean, he said this way, back in the day he was actually skeptical of nato being formed in the 1st place. okay. and then, and i think he died at the ripe old age of a 101. and he was still saying, nato expansion is a very bad idea. so people will say on twitter, you know, the 4 of us are just puppets and all that. but the, one of the greatest geopolitical thinkers of all time, set it decades ago. lucas. yeah, i mean look, people who call us apologists, they're just in my opinion, they're just either ignorant or they're trolls their box that can be napa box while they're psycho to the understand war. i've been at war, i wouldn't wish it upon anybody. so i just don't want to see this war get worse,

and it's probably going to get worse because we know a washington works. they always push too far. so those of us who want peace are called warmongers and to apologise. while food has been offering peace during this entire conflict, where zalinski has been rejected even during christmas. so you know, it tells you right there who's pushing watch, it's not who. and in the kremlin pushing for war, they responded to a genocide happening in a don bus weiss. but to sit there, let it happen, he sang, please stop this. all these records are broken. why should he trust the west? why should he say, trust? anything that was says at all we know every one knows america will literally lie to invade. ready country, what makes you think that though you respect any deals they make with you look how we treat our allies. we were friends with saddam that we killed saddam. we're friends with everyone. we always back backstab, everyone. so now i actually don't get dimension. gadhafi. he did everything they wanted, they did, he did everything they wanted. okay. and look what happened to him. did i say, you know, the, the, one of the things that really a real pet peeve of mine is unprovoked attack on programs unprovoked. well,

and anyone watching this program that has any a, a scant knowledge of the conflict, your nose, this goes all the way back to the legal code, 2014 in the minsk, according to your mention, go ahead. yeah, i mean of course, and i mean i just recently written a comprehensive article on that. and one of the main a well, a lower level mediate presenter in ireland just responded with 3 laughing faces. you didn't challenge the article because nobody wants to challenge her debate with people like michael lucas, myself or yourself. they just want to insult us and, and tried to suppress what we're trying to say. force, you know, nato itself should have disappeared when the warsaw pact disappeared. it was established, you know, post war to counter a, the soviet threat, but it didn't disappear. and i mean, this is, did the jam and the colonel of this whole issue that you had this expanding and military, a defense of alliance a, you know, it's on the sand. so i say say,

how can it be defensive in expanding? and i mean, i've never heard of such an alliance in history. okay. it's ridiculous yet to get it and go on by the whole american rules based order. as michael said earlier on, on the american rules based order as best as summarize the. so american makes the rules and it gives the orders and an america has been the engine in perpetuating of a more aggressive nato. as since the 2nd world war. am, you know, so we had no plans to invade the soviet union at the end of the 2nd reward and assaulted cities with nuclear weapons, you know, operational thinkable, which winston churchill actually sort of does. okay. and i have to have been here gentlemen, i have to germany, we have to go to hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on war and peace. stay with arcane look forward to talking to you. oh,

that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given it by human beings, except when such orders at conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about artificial intelligence. at this point, obviously is to place i trust i rather than share a job with artificial intelligence, real summoning with obama protective phone existence, with for museums, are important for preserving our history so that it is a lot to future generations. but our fiscal museum spaces themselves a relic of the past. this is one of the best museums of the world. huh. touched and

st. petersburg. how far off he is, the director here, and i bet he has met. welcome back. across that were all things considered on peter lavelle to remind you were discussing war and peace with . okay, let's go back to michael in washington in the 1st part of the program lucas and being a veteran of military conflicts that he wouldn't wish war upon anyone. and michael, you know, one of the things i find really disturbing is that this is not the, the, a 12th month of a conflict. it's, it's 8 years now. okay. it's been going on for a very, very long time. and i remember now on the day of the, the special military operation went, went through my mind is now you, the rest of ukraine is good. if i understand what the don bass went through after the shelling the blockade and humiliation that those people had to experience,

we all watched it on tv every single night. i mean, it was an ongoing complex, but most people in the west have no idea that that happened, no idea whatsoever. and the reason why brought this up is that when we talk about it on this program in social media, you know, they want to suppress us. ok for talking about historical facts. historical truth, that is one of the biggest casualties of this conflict is shutting down free speech . michael. well, that's why the west controls its media. the way it does it. we never got any of this of what was happening in the bus for the last 8 years. in the western media, we might get an occasional width, but nothing of the extreme that had been going on ever since. the east decided they didn't like the what happened in the under the coo and in 2014

you had a, you made a car, there was a comment made earlier about with nato expansion and what have you. and then the warsaw pact evaporating after the end of the cold war. what i'm seeing is a possibility that the collective security treaty organization could become the new war self act. and because they've got to have something that will be able to counter this expansion, that seems to be continuing, obviously with benwood and sweden. those countries within the c s t o it's going to are, are, you know, they have varying degrees of wanting to participate. but they have an article for which is equivalent to nato's article 5. when attack on one is attacking on all. and if that, if the federation is hit once again by heavy weapons from, from ukraine, i think we're going to see at least bella roost coming into the act as a,

as part of that commitment. and it will be brought on by, by the west not, not because not by an initiative by russia or bell roost. but in response as a, as an article for event. you know, it's a very good point because because lucas, you know, at winston churchill famously said, an iron curtain is descending all across europe. he said that in fulton, missouri visiting the united states. but it's the west creating an iron curtain now . and it's, it's in every way it's economic, it's until it's diplomatic, it's informational. they're the ones that wants to shut off, they control. but by doing so, it's already been mentioned here in this program. the west is isolating itself. you know this, their, their self owning themselves. lucas? yeah. everything that the west is doing is harming itself from the sanctions. backfiring isolating itself. what again, one person mentioned earlier that the, the east is making its own financial that we're bricks, namely,

and saudi arabia is even considering joining and leaving the dollar. so that's the end of american edge ammonia right there. so, you know, everything we're doing to harm and, and russia is just backfiring on us and the west and europe as well. i mean, look at the united states, we all know we blow up the pipeline and we all know. and now germany is like, well maybe maybe it wasn't russia, maybe someone else start to see through this. yeah, they start to realize that the america is just on hand. she can't be trusted at all . and i don't blame, i don't blame the rest of the world looking at this as crazy as we are because we are the crazy one say, well, you guys got kind of crazy about a balloon, but well, that's a topic for another decade shade. i mean, you know, for me, ok, i can say maybe something personal for people to understand is that because of the sanctions on swift what a why have to do ok? i'm not going to let the u. s. government determined my financial sovereignty. so i go to a chinese bank. okay. i got around it. okay. and,

and in the swift system degrades itself because it's been mentioned on this program already. everybody's going to play it because i don't want to be sanctioned. i didn't do anything. ok, collective punishment here. so say, i mean, the way the world has options and the ample number of options here. but this arrogance of the post, more air in the west. they still think that everyone wants to be like them. well, you know what, we don't go ahead. yeah, absolutely. and i think the other thing that's very important is this talk about seizing russian assets. them, you know, it, there is an international sort of community which operated fine at prior to this a, you know, event where we, you know, now now there's talk of seizing, you know, trillions of dollars basically. and, you know, other developing countries in nations are looking at the united states and say, look, i don't where you want to play with this guy anymore. because you know, if he likes my version of democracy, you know, he comes into my country in the hollow says of the inside. if he doesn't like it, you know, our president ends up hanging from

a tree and our economy ends up destroys, you know, i've kind of started libya, sir, europe, the list is endless. but i think what's really important as well to understand is that this war against russia, it's it from the anglo sphere from the u. k. basically on it and united states. i mean, i still believe that there are intelligent and death, you know, pragmatic heads and parts of europe who are really worried about at this job or not with no breaks. i mean, we've, we've got, i think we're on to the 10th sanctions package. and if you look at the, the 10th sanction package, and if the 1st sanction package was meant to cripple russia were on the 10th. well now that should tell policymakers and the populations of europe something alongside the weapons packages. i mean, where does it end? i mean, we started with, i think, you know, anti tank weapons on to the m triple 7 howitzer, which is going to be just wonder wafa that was going to solve the problem that it was high mars, you know, now it say, you know, at the iron dome and it's the patriot systems. but, you know,

as i said at the start, the russian people understand war. there's not a russian family and i've got family russian myself. there's not a family in russia who doesn't understand this at the impact of this. and i think they're in this potentially for the long one. i just don't think europe and america have it in the tank. yeah. my, you know him, michael, is that it's, it's one of the most fulfilling things for me because i, i just don't understand europe's behavior other than it. this coercion from washington and they use their lap dog in london to as an enforcer. okay. must soul okay. because it be the impact down europe. i mean, not only just economic here, but on civil liberties. again, freedom of speech, which is always been a bit wobbly in europe, but it's even more coerced right now. i mean it, it's, it's so puzzling, watching people work against their own interests. ok. and i hope people will say, hey, enough is enough, but there's coersion, you can be cancelled. they can go take your bank account. i mean,

this is very authoritarian, michael. yeah. well, we see it, we see it every day. i was talking to our mutual friend allister crook early this morning, and he can't even get our tea in the e u at what so much for democracy, which was the basis for joining that organization along with nato. it's pathetic, and that's why you're seeing an acceleration by russia now with this, with the creation of the s p f f, or their version of the, of the switch system. and it's accelerating. i mean, they're getting many, many customers. so that trade can go on. and basically the f s s f p p s is basically the, the messaging system for the bank of russia. and it's, it's, it's linking in with messaging systems with iran,

china, and even even turkey. and it's growing with all these other countries. so this is the response to the sanctions that the united states has been imposing on everybody . yeah. and michael, that the key to american hegemony has always been the dollar, not tank. that's right, it's been monday. and now the challenge and now it's being challenger lucas. you know, i don't want, you know, you just pick your brain for military things, but since we have a veteran on the program here. wow, i've always thought, you know, sending these are a military, a technologies to ukraine. and it did, they actually work as well as they always claim because this is a for, you know, you can send it to iraq. afghanistan, you can fight herdsman with, with, with a k 40 sevens, but your rush is a peer power to the united states when it comes to conventional. i mean, when it could, when are these weapons are going to be as effective as a lot of people think because to, to date they haven't been,

they're just going to melt like everything else. lucas? well, you know, there's talk of suddenly patriot missiles that you need 6 to 9 months of training and that's training. an american soldier who could speak english was going to be in a language barrier. and there are they even gonna get there in time. i mean, is russia, you know, really crush ukraine soon? it won't even get there are just like we're supposed to send $31.00 abrams tax. they're not going to get there in like 9 months or so. so a lot of these trenches i think are just telling ukraine we're going to so you so lucas lucas, that. ok, let's talk about those tanks. i mean, is that enough to change the course of the conflict? i mean, i, i, i'm not a military person, but when i think of, you know, hundreds and thousands of tanks and they're going to send in a couple of dozen. i mean, i don't get it it's, it's just a gesture. it's not going to do anything at all, even if they had patriot missiles, even if we give them the best technology, even if we gave them f $22.00 raptors. we can't send all of them and we can't send enough of them, but they're not going to get 3rd time. russia is going to start pushing really hard now, and everybody knows it. so, you know, these are just to me,

gestures telling you, trying to keep fighting for the last ukrainian because they are being sent to the slaughter and hopes to weaken russia and it's not working. and the west knows it's not working. i just wish the ukrainians realised, are being played or they could stop. well, i think, you know, i say i think the, the, the, we have 50 seconds left here. i mean, there history will judge the leadership in care for bringing. then you know, because people talk, you know, you cranes a victim, no ukraine as a volunteer in this. they volunteered to be cannon fodder. 30 seconds. my friend in dublin. go ahead. yeah, i think we have to have really trace back to the origins of this conflict where, you know, ukraine assaulted its own people in the east. and, you know, russia could, of, and some of the suggest militarily should have gone over the border in 2014, when that happened. and this war would have been much shorter. but instead, a, de facto nato army was created $10000.00 men a year. and the result was almost inevitable in my view. yeah, it, well,

a history will judge a lot of people in power to day, very, very harshly for a conflict that never should have started in the 1st place in which russia tried very hard to avoid at all the time we have gentlemen, i want to thank my guests and break washington. and in dublin, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here darky. see you next time. remember prostitutes? ah. ah no one else. so think wrong when all truth just don't hold me, you will have to sheep out disdain, become the advocate, an engagement equal of betrayal. when so many find themselves will to part,

we choose to look for common ground. ah, walk out the ball. michelle revelations, from a legendary pitcher award winning journalist, whose extensive investigation concludes stuff. the u. s. blew up the russian north stream gas pipelines. it was reportedly dull under the guise of nate, so naval drills and that both exceed in order to cover the missions drugs. also head on the program, the theory and read chris and say sanctions imposed on them mosque is prevent vital a delivery from getting to the country after devastating earthquakes leave at least 1600 people dead in the middle eastern nations.