a the we will bring to the iraqi food and medicine in supplies and freedom with with what it was 3. i mean be that on. i mean, i had a major was i your ship with when i was a hair dresser, a bus driver, a sales person, anyone could become a victim. that sal private negotiators 1st appeared with pretty much what i'm, i'm bored to speak with all of a

september the news more you'll will be up, but i am on that. on the global dilemma, it is only be 3. see 4 miss shannon on on the yet to be yet studies boys took over the serious me go put losing us. yeah. the every month you can say i knew in the middle that they sick with a with with hello and welcome to cross lock or all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle. why is the west so determined to continue it's ukraine, proxy war against russia?

how does such a position benefit ukraine instead of considering possible peace agreements? the west led by washington, seems to see war is the only option. why can't there be security for all the cross sucking war and peace. i'm joined by my guess. lucas gauge in brick. he is a us marine corps veteran author and philosopher in washington. we have michael ma loopy. as a former pentagon senior security policy analyst, and in dublin we have shape bows. he is an independent commentator and writer are a gentleman, cross type roles that affect, that means you can jump in anytime you want and that i always appreciate it, michael, let me go to you 1st here. i mean there is ample evidence. now we have the former israeli prime minister, we have the foreign ministry of turkey. we have the notorious visit of boris johnson early into the conflict that basically telling lensky, you know,

you had to keep this thing going, or else we're not going to back you. so there's ample evidence that the west does not want to see a conclusion to this company because they could, they could just turn off the money, turn off the arms, and it would be over. ok. does that mean washington still believes maybe in a fantasy world, they believe in unicorns or something that they can determine the outcome of this conflict. michael, while they thought they could until they realize they couldn't. and now they're desperate. this, this whole episode is being driven by ideology, by our neoconservatives within the, by the administration. they are hell bent on, not only moving nato into into ukraine, but isolating if they can russia and they're not succeeding. and there's a lot of trepidation now occurring within, within the united states, increasing, i should say, we're not there yet to try and wonder what the well,

just how long is this thing going to go and what's the whole point? and while it's focused on, on making sure ukraine to quote wins, the reality is it's not. and also it's draining us financially, economically, and militarily, diplomatically and, and apparently we don't know how to stop this. the slippery slope on which we're all gliding on and nato is, is also waking up and smell in the coffee and they don't like it. yeah, look, it's, it's, it's very interesting. you've been in the military. it's very easy to start conflicts, isn't it? ok when, how to wind them up when you're not winning. and with all due respect to your background, the u. s. is not what a war since the 2nd world war here, but they continue to the same playbook here. and i'm glad michael mentioned nato, because i'm hoping that this will be the end of nato. it was supposed to never get

in a war. it talk about unprovoked. i mean, they baited the russians into this conflict, and now they're beginning to have 2nd thoughts. and you, if you look at what the hungarians are having to say the probations, it's beginning to i think the, the, those type of statements, doubting the this conflict really resonates to the rest of the european union. your thoughts, lucas? yeah, i think everyone's getting tired of this nato, the u. s. u, they're all pushing way too hard too quickly. they, as michael said, they thought they could probably win this war. now they're waking up, the smell in the coffee and they're seeing that it's not really that easy to. we conclude fact couldn't. and everyone else around it is allies are getting stronger without us than people are starting to see that the united states cannot even be trusted. anymore, so this whole thing is going to end up pretty bad for us here in the last. and you know, frankly i look forward to the multi polar world works much more fair rather than having this bullied my country pushing people around with this rules based order, which is basically american exceptionalism. do whatever we want and no one else to

do anything. brush it doesn't have their own security interests, you know, we have to push them into this war because we want to expand our influence restaurants and yes, you know, show that, you know, that's something i almost feel obligated to mention every time i talk about this is that you know, the, in the west they talk about maybe there's a korean solution, a stalemate, an arm and says, all kinds of things like that. and i dismiss it out of hand completely because the west doesn't understand the origins of this conflict. and it's very clear from the russian side, hey, the european architecture security architecture has failed us. we need to readdress it. we've given you ideas they were dismissed out of hand. here, though, the way the thing is going to end is going to have to recognize. so security demand here in the west doesn't seem to wake up to that. go ahead in dublin. yeah, absolutely. and does michael lucas both say, and we have

a problem in the west f with this sort of a long distance projection into, into ukraine. and it's a russia, if there's any nation on earth that understands what long war is and what the impacts of war. like with 26000000 people dead in the 2nd world war. i mean, it's delusional to think that policy analysts, you know, in at downing street on, in washington are going to come up with these a solution. you got to remember that the minsk and one and 2 records are widely recognized as being the solution to this war. before it ever happened, and we've learned recently, and that, and you know, the west nato slash ukraine, we're essentially using as those chords to build this, send nato de facto nato army on russia's board. so i think the idea that russia is going to buy into another sort of western lead solution if you like to the ukraine problem. and it is becoming a problem as a, as michael lucas barry at pointedly at point out economically as socially. and,

you know, particularly in europe, we're starting to see a mass of backlash against the refugees that are pouring into european countries am so, you know, the idea that we're going to impose, or that there's going to be a modeling of some sort of solution. and is going to be put to russia and it makes this more and more likely in my view that russia is going to be more skeptical this time on a battlefield solution to this conflict. unfortunately, looks more likely as isaac ruins on. yeah, you know michael is go back to washington it's, i find it, i don't know if you read responsible statecraft, their website here, am i. and it's a curious mishmash of things. but you know, there's still this belief in american hegemony. we just have to, um, i'm welded in a, in a more positive way robust emma diplomacy, i always say, but they're always saying it's in rushes interest. if they do this to this and this, i mean, the, the arrogance of that. okay. the, the russians interests have been completely dismissed. that's why we're here in the

weight and the way we are because it, no one takes it seriously. will that now they have to start taking it seriously. michael? yes. well it's, it's, it's happening now as we see it. there is a concerted effort by mr. newton and others in the east, through your asia to create this multi polar order it to get out from under that western sanctions, western financial reliance and, and the dollar and switch over so they can all begin to breathe and, and, and, and work together again because it's, it's, it's the u. s. a gemini, and it's use of the economic weapon is what really, really did it. and i think that we're going to be seeing this accelerating. now, in the months to come look, the united states pushed the nato to expand. contrary to all agreements or at least a half a dozen agreements who warned them about it, they didn't listen and they don't and,

and now we're seeing the consequences. but especially when your own security is at stake. and the u. s. been so far away and having to travel so far to create havoc just doesn't appreciate what, what, what mr. newton was talking about. if we were next door to russia, they were to understand. yeah, look at george of can in the architect of contain mentoring. the, the cold war, i don't think if he were alive today, he would be called a potent apologists. ok, but i mean, he said this way, back in the day, he was actually skeptical of nato being formed in the 1st place. ok. and then, and i think he died at the ripe old age of 101. and he was still saying nato expansion is a very bad idea. so people will say on twitter, you know, the 4 of us are just puppets and all that. but the one of the greatest geopolitical thinkers of all time said it decades ago. lucas? yeah, i mean look to people who call us apologists. they're just, in my opinion,

they're just either ignorant or they're trolls. their boxes are going to be napa box while they're psycho still understand war. i've been at war, i wouldn't wish it upon anybody. so i just don't want to see this war get worse and it's probably going to get worse because we know a washington works. they always push too far. so those of us who want peace are called warmongers and put apologists. while food has been offering peace during this entire conflict where zalinski has been rejected even during christmas. so, you know, it tells you right there who's pushing watch, it's not who in the kremlin pushing for war. they responded to a genocide happening in a don bus weiss. but to sit there, let it happen. he sang, please stop this. all these records are broken. why should he trust the west? why should he say, trust anything? the west says at all. we know every one knows america will literally lie to invade your country. what makes you think that though you respect any deals they make with you? look how we treat our allies. we were friends, the saddam, that we killed saddam. we're friends with everyone will respect backstab everyone. so yeah,

i don't think that dimension gadhafi. he did everything they wanted. they did hinted everything they wanted. okay. and look what happened to him. i say, you know, the, one of the things that really a real pet peeve of mine is unprovoked attack on programs unprovoked. well, anyone watching this program that has any a, a scant knowledge of the conflict, your nose, this goes all the way back to the illegal code in 2014 in minsk, according to your message. go ahead. yeah, i mean of course, and i mean i just recently written a comprehensive article on that. and one of the main l. a lower level media at presenter in ireland just responded with 3 laughing faces. you didn't challenge the article because nobody wants to challenge your debate with people like michael lucas, myself or yourself. they just want to insult us and, and try to suppress what we're trying to say. force, you know, nato itself should have disappeared when the warsaw pact dissipated was established . you know, post war to counter the soviet threat, but it didn't disappear. and i mean, this is,

did the jam and the colonel of this whole issue that you had this expanding and military a defense of alliance. and i say say, how can it be defensive and expanding? and i've never heard of such an alliance in history. okay. it's ridiculous that you had to go on by the whole american rules based order. as michael said earlier on the american rules based order as best as summarize the. so american makes the rules and it gives the orders and an america has been the engine in perpetuating a more aggressive nato as since the 2nd world war. and you know, so we had no plans to invade the soviet union at the end of the 2nd reward. and assaulted cities with nuclear weapons, you know, operational thinkable, which winston churchill actually sorta does. okay, and i have to have been here gentlemen, i have to germany, we have to go to hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on war and peace. stay with our team. ah

ah, ah. oh. ah, need to come to the russian state total narrative. i've stayed as i'm turning the most landscape div, asking him the american house southland of nico finance is he

babbled. it's been okay. so mine is to fargo speaking, one else calls go ahead with greville van in the european union, the kremlin media machine, the state on russia for date, and split our t spoke neck. even our video agency, roughly all band to on you to send me to school nutrition. did you think electricity with a welcome back to cross sack? were all things are considered on peter labelle to remind you were discussing war and peace? ah okay,

let's go back to michael in washington in the 1st part of the program lucas and being a veteran of a military conflict, said he wouldn't wish war upon any one. and michael, you know, one of the things i find really disturbing is that this is not the, the, a 12th month of a conflict. it's, it's 8 years now. okay. it's been going on for a very, very long time. and i remember the, the day of the special military operation went through my mind is now you, the rest of ukraine is going to understand what the don bass went through. after the shelling the blockade, the humiliation that those people had to experience. we all watch it on tv every single night. i mean, it was an ongoing complex, but most people in the west have no idea bet that happened, no idea whatsoever. and the reason why i brought this up is that when we talk about it on this program in social media, you know,

they want to suppress us. ok for talking about historical facts. historical truth, that is one of the biggest casualties of this conflict is shutting down free speech . michael. well, that's why the west controls it's media the way it does it. we never got any of this of what was happening in the bus for the last 8 years in the western media, we might get an occasional with, but nothing of the extreme that had been going on ever since. the east decided they didn't like the what happened in the under the coo and in 2014 you had a, you made a car, there was a comment made earlier about with nato expansion and what have you. and then the warsaw pact evaporating after the end of the cold war. what i'm seeing is a possibility that the collective security treaty organization could become the new

war. so act and because they've got to have something that will be able to counter this expansion that seems to be continuing, obviously with benwood and sweden. those countries within the c s t o, it's kind of our, our, you know, they have very in degrees of wanting to participate, but they have an article for which is equivalent to nato's article 5. where the tack on one is attack on all. and if the, if the federation is hit once again by heavy weapons from, from ukraine, i think we're going to see at least bella ruth, coming into the act as a, as part of that commitment. and it will be brought on by, by the west not, not because not by an initiative by russia or bella roost. but in response as a, as an article for event. you know, it's a very good point because because lucas, you know, at winston churchill famously said, an iron curtain is descending all across europe. he said that in fulton,

missouri visiting the united states. but it's the west creating an iron curtain now . and it's, it's in every way it's economic, it's financial, it's diplomatic, it's informational. they're the ones that want to shut off, they control. but by doing so, it's already been mentioned here in this program. the west is isolating itself. you know, this, their self owning themselves. lucas, yeah, everything that the west is doing is harming itself from the sanctions. backfiring isolating itself. what again one person mentioned earlier that the, the east is making its own financial that were bricks, namely, and saudi arabia is even considering joining and leaving the dollar. so that's the end of american edge money right there. so you know, everything we're doing to hard pulling, and russia is just backfired on us and the west and europe as well. i mean, look at the united states, we all know we blow up the pipeline and we'll know, and now germany is like, well maybe maybe it was russia,

maybe someone else start to see through the other start to realize that the america is just on hand. they can't be trusted at all, and i don't blame, i don't blame the rest of the world looking at us. this is crazy as we are because we are the crazy one say, well, you guys got kind of crazy about a balloon, but will, that's a topic for another day of a k. i ha, i mean, you know, at the, for me, okay, i can see it may be something personal for people to understand. is that because of the sanctions on swift? what a why have to do ok. i'm not going to let the u. s. government determine my financial sovereignty, so i go to a chinese bank. okay. i got a round it. okay. and, and the in the swiss system degrades itself because it is been mentioned on this program already. everybody's going to flee it because i don't want to be sanction. i didn't do anything. ok. collective punishment here. so say, i mean the way the world has options in the ample number of options here. but this arrogance of the post war air in the west. they still think that everyone wants to

be like them. well, you know what, we don't go ahead, shane. yeah, absolutely. and i think the other thing that's very important is, is talk about seizing russian assets. and, you know, there is an international sort of community which operated fine. prior to this, sir, you know, event where we, you know, now now there's talk of seizing, you know, trillions of dollars basically. and, you know, other developing countries in nations are looking at the united states and say, look, i don't where you want to play with this guy anymore. because you know, if he likes my version of democracy, you know, he comes into my country analysis of the inside. if he doesn't like it, you know, our president ends up hanging from a tree, and our economy ends up destroys afghans style livia, siri, iraq, the list is endless. but i think what's really important as well to understand is that this war against russia, it's it from the anglo sphere, it's from the u. k. basically. and, and, and united states. i mean, i still believe that there are intelligent and they're, you know,

pragmatic heads and prior to your approve are really worried about at his job renault with no breaks. i mean, we've, we've got, i think we're on to the 10th sanctions package. and if you look at the, the tank sanctioned package, and if the 1st sanctioned packet was meant to cripple russia were on the 10th. well now that should tell policy makers and the populations of europe something alongside the weapons packages. i mean, where does it end? i mean, we started with, i think, you know, anti tank weapons on to the m triple 7 howitzer, which was going to be this wander wafa. that was gonna solve the problem that it was high mars, you know, now it say, you know, at the iron dome and it's the patriot systems. but, you know, as i said at the start, the russian people understand war. there's not a russian family and i've got family rush myself. there's not a, a family in russia who doesn't understand this at the impact of this. and i think they're in this potentially for, for the long one. i just don't think europe and america have it in the tank. yeah. my, you know, in michael that, that it's,

it's one of the most fulfilling things for me because i, i just don't understand europe's behavior other than it does coercion from washington. and they use their lap dog in london to as an enforcer. ok as the muscle. ok. because the, the, the impact on europe. i mean not only just economic, but on civil liberties. again, freedom of speech which is always been a bit wobbly in europe. and it's even more r coerced right now. i mean, it, it's very, it's so puzzling, watching people work against their own interests. ok. and i hope people will, you know, say hey, enough is enough, but there is coercion. you can be cancel, they can go take your bank account. i mean, this is very authoritarian, michael. yeah. well, we see it. we see it every day. i was talking to our mutual friend allister crook earlier this morning, and he can't even get r t in the e u at what so much for democracy, which was the basis for joining that organization along with nato. it's pathetic,

and in the end, that's why you're seeing an acceleration by russia. now with this, with the creation of the s p f. s or their version of the, of the swift system. and it's accelerating. i mean, they're getting many, many customers. so that trade can go on and basically the f s s f p p s is basically the, the messaging system for the bank of russia. and it's, it's, it's linking in with messaging systems with iran, china, and even even turkey. and it's growing with all these other countries. so this is the response to the sanctions that the united states has been imposing on everybody . yeah. and michael, that the key to american hegemony has always been the dollar, not tank. that's right. it's been monday. and now in challenge,

and now it's being challenger lucas, you know, i don't want to just pick your brain for military things. but since we have a veteran on the program here, how i've always thought, you know, sending these are a military technologies to ukraine and they actually work as well as they always claim. because this is a for, you know, you can send it to iraq. afghanistan, you can fight herds been with, with, with a k 40 sevens. but you rush is a peer power to the united states when it comes to conventional. i mean, when it could, when are these weapons are going to be as effective as a lot of people think, because today they haven't been, they're just going to melt like everything else. lucas? well, you know, there's talk of sending patriot missiles that you need 6 to 9 months of training and that's training. an american soldier who could speak english is going to be a language barrier. and are they even gonna get there in time? i mean, is russia kinda, you know, really crush ukraine soon and won't even get there in time just like we're supposed

to. 731 abrams tanks are not going to get there. and with 9 months or so, a lot of these trenches i think are just telling ukraine we're going to look at lucas. ok, let's talk about those tanks. i mean, is that enough to change the course of the conflict? i mean, i, i'm not a military person, but when i think of, you know, hundreds and thousands of tanks and i'm going to send in a couple doesn't, i mean, i don't get it it's, it's just a gesture. it's not going to do anything at all. even if that patriot missiles, even if we give him the best technology, even if we gave him f 22 raptors, we can't send all of them and we can't send enough with them. they're not going to get their time. russia is going to start pushing really hard now, and everybody knows it. so, you know, these are just to me, gestures telling you, trying to keep fighting for the last ukrainian because they are being sent to the slaughter and hopes to weaken russia. and it's not working and the west knows it's not working. i just wish the ukrainians realised are being played so they could stop. well i think, you know, you say i think the, the, the, we have 50 seconds left here. i mean,

there history will judge the leadership in care of for bringing them, you know, because people talk, you know, ukraine's a victim no ukraine as a volunteer in this. they volunteered to be cannon fodder. 30 seconds, my friend in dublin. go ahead. yeah, i think we have to have really traced back to the origins of this conflict where, you know, ukraine assaulted its own people in the east. and, you know, russia could, of, and some of the suggest militarily should have gone over the border in 2014, when that happened. and this war would have been much shorter. but instead, a, de facto nato army was created $10000.00 men a year. and the result was almost inevitable in my view. yeah, it, well, a history will judge a lot of people in power to day, very, very harshly for a conflict that never should have started in the 1st place in which russia tried very hard to avoid at all the time we have gentlemen, i want to thank my guests and break washington. and in dublin, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here. darky. see an exam. remember

rostock? ah. ah . ah, articles westerly i may be thought on. i mean our hatamio was how your zip was through. when i was a hair dresser, a bus driver, a sales person,

anyone could become a victim, ah, that sail private negotiators 1st appeared with steel. wooden boat, a september. the reason why you're bored yet, but i am on that on the global deal. i mean, it isn't going to be feasible mentioned on from the yet. could be a study sports took over the serious me could put up with ah,

museums are important for preserving our history so that it is a lot to future generations. but our physical museums, places themselves a relic of the past. this is one of the best museums in the world. the competition st. petersburg to help roughly is the director here. and i bet he has met day has historically been an area of collaboration among the us and the soviet union collaborated on a number of products and space despite the attention of the cold war. but today that may no longer be the case. i'm crispy and you're watching the cost of everything. where today we're going to take a closer look at what it costs to fun. the great space to point out ah, the space raises heating up and then he isn't just coming from international rivals

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