awe every spring and summer, the melting optic snow reveals abandoned machinery, millions of rusty barrels and the detritus left by human expansion into this most inaccessible of territories. yet on the move, so take up my lot. that is awesome. but he lost it. the bus begun as an issue all in tears from clean optic travel for heis island home to the biggest pola station on the france. joseph land da capella, go via the asked me, but i lost my bosom more yet to the should. so image it's ebony, people aimlessly, nasa monthly and i'm but familiar with the summer. stay on the lowest half of summer. he feel like over a marriage from a serial number 0 membership, one year of capillary bomb, cyril know, boys the premier, please join me at that of the arctic pioneers main objective was to explore and conquer these harsh lands. they had no time to think about waste management now and

legacy could remain for centuries. get my in my choice, the thought of you them night and i needed to be at the go to some was this going to plenty of corporate don't really to include that the deal if issue ah ah ah ah

the news hello and welcome to cross stock were all things are considered on peter lavelle as a sign the west ukraine proxy war on russia is not going as planned. a new narrative is making the rounds. it's called the korea solution, the end of active hostilities and an armistice. keep in mind the side considering enormous seeks to avoid complete defeat. we all know which side that is the cross sucking ukraine. i'm joined by my guess, ray mcgovern in raleigh. he is a former c. i. a analysts in tampa. we have larry johnson. he's a managing partner for bird associates and a former cia analyst,

and us state department counterterrorism official and in brussels. we have gilbert doug tara, he's an independent, political analyst and author memoirs of an ex pat manager in moscow during the 1990 s. gentleman cross talk roles and effect, that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciate, i want to ask all 3 of you before we go into the, the main part of the program, your reaction to see more hirsch's article on the united states planning, executing and destroying the north stream pipelines rate. you 1st in raleigh. i'm shocked. i'm shocked to go ahead with john brennan and said it was the russians. but he said it was the russians. it was kinda hard. it was a stretch to think they would blow up their own pipeline. but i thought, was the russia now turn about? i'm just shock peter. i can't say anymore. now. ok, i very jump in. what can you add to what? ray is already? so i could maybe there isn't much more to add. go ahead larry. i would i train to

the very top secret society site in the united states and believe it or not, they actually had a gift shop and they sold vitamins in there that carried the slogan to admit nothing. deny everything, make counter accusations. and that's exactly what the, the by the administration is doing with sy hersh his revelations. they're admitting nothing they're denying it. and then the q cy, of being an adult, the old man who gets everything wrong, ignoring the fact that the man is, he's alleged in the, on the lives. going back to me like the gray to the revelations about ca, spine on americans and assassination plots. the go mar, explore it just goes on and on. so i always gets his figures. right. and i actually sent him yesterday further confirmation. turns out that, that dive center down there in panama city is also the headquarters for

a certain 3 letter outfit that ran. i used to work for that there maritime branches base there. so the story is true and it is an act of war by the united states and europe as i understand it is completely shut down the story that no, no, well, that's where i wanted to go gilbert, you know, it, you know, the europeans are mom on it ok, they got a got a blip. ok. you, you know, hershey stuff is, you know, he's a legend. what he has to say people pay attention to with good reason, but it's already fading away very, very quickly. go over your thoughts. go ahead. well i read article i was your best journalist. busy and remarkable retail. and my question to my so how did you get this? where did you come? there's no the course you traces for obvious reasons. however, i can say this morning i received from or someone who is the volunteer translator.

my 6 my, my wife takes him to german, has his own neck. and his whole countries, for one of his friends friendly, who told him that he was thinking of making a report. similar to what hersh as done less detailed course with the substantial elements on there. you're going to do this based on conversation yes. with a fellow german who took part in the same lecture cited in the summer. and you over listen to one or 2 divers who explained that maybe you framed from making this public because he had no patience and he didn't want to disclose the source for obvious reasons for harmony could come to his friends. however, the overall story, bully corroborates one person. so i'm satisfied,

i'm source, i'm, i'm satisfied to anyone that has any curiosity should be satisfied as well, but of course they will be complete denial and no investigation of this. that's what we expect are now to the main course here. re, i mean, i seen through some of the mainstream media. so a little bit, some independent stuff. you know, they, they're, the solution is korea. we need an arm and says, we need to freeze the, the battlefield here, considering to find out that the americans were lying about blowing up the pipeline here. why would the russians even consider and any kind of negotiate negotiating that will include a sci fi or an armistice? your thoughts go ahead? will they won't, they won't consider that for the nonce. but let me just add a footnote to the seymour hersh story. the real story now will be whether this really can be kept secret in european circles, and particularly in german circles. germany is the k. there stood all our

choice. well, president biden threaten to destroy the pipeline and he did like, you know, like bird rabbit. he didn't say nothing. right. so this is a battered wife syndrome. now. yeah. and there are, there are no germans. i think that i have have enough information and discernment to say, well, wait a 2nd, now our industries are fall apart. we get real call here at our apartments. if this is true, how are we to look at the u. s? so i'm saying simply that germany will be to k, it will be really interesting where they can hack any more courageously the ok but, but you know, right, you know, right. we've always have to deal with the germans are too strong and too threatening, or they're too feeble. and they're not eve. and now we have a new category. they're just plain stupid. ok if they just continue to go along

with this. sorry to be so blunt here. larry, i want i want to talk, i want to talk about this korean thing. okay. you what do you think the chances of that happening? because, you know, history serves me well. i mean, the side that is losing once an army is not the winning side, but go ahead larry out another. if the side of the desperation, they're starting to take hold and washington, cuz they realize that they've they, they've made a bet that they can't deliver on the, i'm sure that burns the ca director didn't propose that. and i think that probably put in a lot of fraud had to look at each other and go, is this guy on drugs, you know, you can't be serious of russia has finally, i think, awakened to the fact that they can no longer trust anything that washington or the rest of europe says any deals any proposals and negotiations are, are not to be trusted. they can't be relied upon at all. so i think russia wisely

will reject it, refuse to accept that will press on with this military campaign. and which is ultimately gonna lead to the defeat of nato. that's so that's what the state care, gilbert weigh in on that. you heard that with larry just said there. i mean, consider we had merkel alon now we have this article by seymour hersh. you know, i mean, this is, these people are maniacal, i mean, why would anyone entertain any kind of fire or negotiations at this point? i mean, you, the only way you can get your way is creating political facts on the ground with european said that last year. yeah. this is going to happen on the battlefield. well, yeah, it's going to happen on the battlefield. gilbert go ahead. like the thing i'm doing on my own, i'm taking it up from some programs very respectable or to progress on rushes

in which people who are experts and was sincere pages. our technology finding his position were right now and raised the question. who knows exactly how this new war is war and you can see it with absolute certainty, any outcomes under the circumstances. i don't see any such a and then again, the coming pairs i don't believe it or is on the list. i'd like to like something for this war has been called proxy, where it is not proxy war between the hours. we have proxy, we're getting the korean war. we have the approximate work in syria. however, there is a significant difference in what we now see in the russian ukraine. and that is,

this is a war on russia's territory exactly. where by the russian legislation. therefore, it is unlike any proceeded for russia, it is an essential fight. whereas a previous proxy worse were not okay, well, re weigh in on that there because the, the, the, the way things stand right now, if there was it lets us entertainment that there was an armistice here. that means that data would turn the rum state of ukraine into some kind of fortress to continue the conflict. i mean, no one in the right mine because i would agree to that because it, nothing is settled, nothing will be settled. if there is a cease, fire, go ahead. re love us 1st and foreign minister of rough shed before 5 months ago. that geography has changed the russian calculus tripe, y bars, and other rather long range. missiles the intention to

pacify occupy, and incorporate dun bosh as now widened. now they have to go farther, and now go, father and father. i think that pu chain would prudish prefer to stop other nipper and deal or we'll say, and they'll be have to be somebody to deal with and somebody that realizes that coaching he go all away is the time to make the deal. it will be 2 months from now in my view, but will be real and will be up to the, the benighted souls in washington, jake sullivan and blake, and then the others who will have to realize that they're smoking their own hashish . for god's sake, they actually believe they can win when they can. and secretary austin is just doing what he always did. he what he did when he was chief of said come haste, falsifying the intelligence. it's blatant and it's stupid,

but all is fair and love and war. yeah, well and in and out why, why should the directory of american foreign policy change all of a sudden ok, a road record of of catastrophe. gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break, and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on ukraine state with awe today. and this was new and never done before. we trigger the general k class. that means national government can come into the economy, much a notice from them and get it to us on to the tuesday. my son,

he died in the mean and i may city sick at sick with diarrhea. i'm on to the financial due to the fees are for me, i did just this and he, sadly, i mean for that it resets your home phone, go out shamefully from lam. i'm not sure who to lee should be a lot up with this will be to hold on. i want to probably much about it blocked a model, but i'm not coming up with what i give them the dawn last last you know. ah, that last has got some kind of a bombing, they're all good perception that even and he'll get they are putting a little and bringing him in every ever seattle for life. but they are giving

him the opportunity to share his views. not only important in some ways, but also in the universities add to the young people are making a president a villain, but that is definitely not the case. and how do you know that he understand what is good for their nation? all which is good for you'd see with ah, welcome back to cross sac where all things are considered. i'm peter le belcher manager . we're discussing ukraine. okay it's go back to larry in tampa, you know, one of the larry, the, one of the problems i have in looking at reporting on the conflict and a whole, the whole spectrum of opinions and all that. one of the things it's us, missed all the time. is that why this happened in the 1st place and rushes security

demand? see, we can talk about a cease fire get harm. it says we can talk about geography and we can talk about all these kinds of things. but at the end of the day, russia got into is because it's because of its security demands and it will only stop when it has met those demands. it's, it's pretty simple here. yes, by guilt made an important point with respect to the proxy wars. but what makes this one so different is the outer complete demon, the zation of all things, russian. you know, in the past, during the cold war. now, during the cuban missile crisis during vietnam, the united states could still find a way to talk to yury on the drop off were to land the garage in it, and there was still, there is no complete rupture of dialogue between the 2 countries are still recognition we needed to talk, ah, that is gone at the, the, the,

the presentation of russia as this did demonic authoritarian dictator designed to take over the world. it's psychological projection on the part of the united states. because if you look at the history of the last 70 years, the only country that has been consistently involved with expeditionary military adventures overseas and killing foreigners is the united states is not russia, it's not china. and so that's what makes this difference. and this is, this is a, the ultimate existential threat for russia because of the west has its way, it's going to carve up russia and at least 5 pieces and rape its resources. yep. and gilbert, one of them greatest mismatches. and all of this here is that is i've stressed earlier that rushes ultimate goal is to secure it security. but the west,

it's messianic. it's ideological. okay, i, i'm glad larry brought this up. i mean, it's a huge, broad brush russians, russian culture, russian history. the works, everything it but it must be annihilated. ok. and that's the mismatch. because the russians are saying it was something completely different. we have security demands, you ignored them. this is what we warned you over and over again. now this is what's happened and we're not going to stop in to we meet our goals, but the west doesn't think in those terms. there's thinking in terms of ideology, go ahead gilbert. well, the, the russian issue here where there's this camping had a 2nd dimension to fully secure the assumption is a national switch and that is the russian identity of the non boss in the population . there were 2 ends in this korean style cease

fire. what do you have to say on the side is that they achieve one of their 2 goals . they said on bus, they've captured 20 or $0.25. what was formerly the ukraine and the most. busy economically valuable part of the ukraine. they same space on their co nationals in a way that $990.00 cuz they were unable to save their co nationals in the baltic says simply for love of military and economic string, they have that. well, then they will have it any case they will have achieved one of the goals. the greater goal is your identified. it is a purely pure security. and that is in terms of halting nato, turning nature back and rendering the job. but gilbert, let me go to re right now, stopping nato halting nato for now. so that's why i said,

that's not going to compute. that's not the result. the russians will accept because we all know that if the ratio zalinski gang stays in power, it will continue to be supported by the west and the continued nato infiltration of their farms of forces. here, i don't see that's a tenable outcome. re, peter, i think i need to check the most important tectonic shift that has occurred over the past year. and that is that china is in full support of russia here. that when poaching was ash on october 27th at battle, di, why do you think the americans are taking on china cho? he said, you know, i thought there was some subtle reason behind us, but know i'm convinced that they're crazy. his word. he said this is a function of arrogance and feeling of impunity. yeah. but that but right, that's because of the i agree with you, but it's because it's idea logical for them. okay. i mean that goes into

a different realm of, of logic. ok. i mean, this is, this is a messy on the adventure on their part. keep going re, well, i don't like the word illogical. it's straight power. it's, it's, it's a leach thinking that the us is still exceptional. we haven't learned that lesson yet. what my point is simply the reason poochie can be so secure and so confident and moving west as he is about to do is because he's got china at his back. he's solidified that exactly a year ago. people don't get it. least of all, the people running our foreign policy, larry way and when rachel said there, because the there is a huge shift going on. right now we could talk about the dollar is ation. supply chains are changing. the relationship that india has with rushes is getting better

and better. i mean, this is the, the west is closing itself off from the world. ok, and it's last the last straw. it's military. i mean, if the u. s. was what it allows the dollar to be. so compromise, i mean, that's the death of a superpower. larry the washington in particular. but there as well as the rest of europe, painted themselves into a corner and then tied a plastic bag over their head. and believe that somehow that this is going to result in victory what, what, what the war in ukraine has exposed. and i think frankly, it has surprised russia. they never anticipated that the west was so hollowed out in terms of its ability to replace replenish, military stores. particularly artillery shells and other weapons of a bit there. i think there was an underlying assumption that the west actually had a pretty robust industrial base. yep. and what's been exposed as that's gone,

that is, that's history. this is, this is not world war 2, where the united states factories roared into production. they are struggling to produce it in one year. what, you know, ukraine is shooting and one week in terms of artillery shells. so that it's been a terrible miscalculation. and yet, despite that, nobody is coming to grips with the reality that from a military standpoint, the only thing the united states has left in its quiver are nuclear weapons. and even then the prospect of using those nuclear weapons successfully is, is, is problematic. so it is the united states is getting got to come to grips with the fact that it is not the power that it once was. yeah, big. they just go ahead playing the last to the question of

a function is thinking of his notes or whether it's much worse they would enter and the war is now growing up in ukraine has been the course of that war and been decided by the russians not by the members made it not and it's back here where the western industrial capacity is woefully behind because that was not the kind of work that they tend to be finding whether that shows really. and so as a 2nd question, the russians have this pendulum bearing on the potential breast risks when one considers where we go. if we, if there's an escalation line, us nato versus russia. the assumption in our newspapers is that the russians will go. and that is because the whole west underestimate

what russia has gone into last day to build a very powerful conventional exactly system that is extremely important. also, in the case of the hyper sonic missions all the way here about the think any of the existing and aircraft systems. there's another dimension to that, which is more important as we go forward and consider the russian, can the russian boss about response to an attack on premier name, meaning that they were down for us spaces in europe and how the assumption years with nuclear war, the russian demonstrated the tire of one of their hypersonic missiles on a silo underground. silos, soaring munitions in your brain that the, the, the spiral, the devastation power of one of these i, per sonic missiles,

is vast with warhead, because of the laws of physics. now saying i were a rapidly run out of time, now you re, you are nodding your head. what would you want to jump in there? go ahead. i just wanted to support what gillis sang. i grew agree completely with him. that's the dangerous thing. nuclear aspect, as for the conventional nato generals don't usually agree with gilbert, dr. all. but just this past week, the top general said, you know, we, we've missed, we said explicitly, we may say misunderstood estimated who we've, we've got this wrong, it's scale scale scale. and we got it, and the russians do hello, that's what's good on when in ukraine. and the only question is when the us and nato's back is up because the wall while, well biting, being prompt to that i would, i agree, but very,

we gotta wait. we got 30 seconds larry is as caught, read or like to say do the military math. 30 seconds, my friend, go ahead. yes, the, the united states is exhausted militarily right now doesn't have any good options. and the russian offensive, i believe, is actually already begun. this is not going to cobb, it's under why it will expand from what it was all we're looking at the defeat of nato and that some to be in the west has not come to grips with. yeah, okay, well that's a really good way to end the program. thank you. my friend, that's all the time we have. i want to thank my guests in brussels, tampa, and in raleigh. and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r t. c. you next time, remember cross snuggles a

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ah ah, disturbing images ahead. russia opens a criminal investigation into the brutal execution of russian prisoners of war by ukrainian troops. the un office that verified the footage as authentic as express deep concern over the slave with washington. the accused of double standards up there, stopping new sanctions on a run, targeting fuel, our petrochemical, sold to asia, while at the same time saying it won't take action against the india. for bio russia or nicaragua. release is more than $200.00 jail. qu, plotters who try to over through the government, black and.