to take a picture of a go double play. you have to go so good on the procedure. ah, ah. hello in welcome to cross stock were all things are considered? i'm peter level. we were told it was one of those mysteries of the ages. this is how the west describe the destruction of the north stream pipelines. then came along betral investigative journalist, seymour hersh. he tells us differently and in great detail. indeed the by did ministration led the way destroying this civilian infrastructure. ah,

discuss these issues any more. i'm joined by my guess, glen deason in our slow he is a professor at the university of se or norway as well as author of the book, great power politics in the 4th industrial revolution. and in myra cash, we crossed martin j. he is in award winning journalist and commentator, journaling cross up rules and effect. that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciated when i got a glitch in our slow. so we came, a seymour hersh, came out with his report, his investigative reporting on the north, the ending of the north stream. pipelines ending very much like what biden said, i'm sending next to the german chancellor. so glen, i mean, this is supposed to be a great mystery, but it's not really that much great of a mystery because when after it happened, that was very little bit talk about it. and when someone like seymour hersh, legendary journalist writes about it, it's completely dismissed and hardly reported on your thoughts. well,

this is sam. i keep problem i with the how me the limits the debate. i mean is a good. you can give the illusion of having a open democratic debate if you only narrow the scope of what's allowed to be discussed. so last draw show or was it a mystery? as long as you have a vibrant debate within that scope a, it seems to be a dilution. but, but again, it should have been if they would have come as a big surprise for a, for a, for others pick. it cost us, you mentioned washington for years. you know, they tried to stop this project to come them the germans for building it. they've been sanction dear pin companies for building it, you know, in the name of protecting our energy security. and we have the rand report, her order for the u. s. army say on how to weaken and extend russia. and again, in terms of energy, it said the 1st step was to stop nor stream to, you know, he had to compare. i said, we'll do everything we can to stop it. i there shall see story in you think and all

it is all oh, all open source. yeah. open source in that newland as well said that the, you know, we will find the way of stopping this in a town called news to word we're gonna kill north stream to let it rust beneath the baltic. and of course, this is what's biden oswell said. he was very opened in a standing next to the german chancellor. thing if russia goes into your cranial will stop it and no matter what and, and how are you going to do this? the journalist southwell trust us, we can do it to so it's, it's a, it's a, you know, this a mountain of evidence there that they wanted to do it. and after it was blown up, you hugged, you know, 1st of all the polish for a previous foreign minister at alex, who is the quotas case, or i think thank you you a say in just remove any doubt to posted a picture of the exploded pipeline. and then had the little anthony blink and coming alex and the me, this thing, this is a tremendous opportunity. now maybe we can finally replace the russian energy and with american. and again that only recently victoria newland came out once again

that i'm trying to call her back. she made it very clear that she and the united states administration were very gratified that nordstrom now was uncle metal at the bottom of the sea. so, you know, it's also open to base or, or a trial you would have very strong evidence say that perhaps you didn't even mention the details of the marshes article you gave all the open source here and then we have his article kind of connect. so let me gonna mark martin here. it's kind of like an inverted o j simpson case. okay. oj was let off. ok, fine. he didn't kill is ex wife and her boyfriend then who did? i mean, this is the us and its allies will dismisses the medium. we'll talk about it. so if it's what see my hearse? probably one of the greatest living journals of our time. if he's wrong, been who did do it? there is no interest in that either marta. so it just goes completely against the narrative which has been fed to the job this year. nobody wants to go there. nobody

wants to deal in doing this is and i don't know about the reference to oj, i'm worried to see my she's going to end up driving across america. i'm on live tv with people chase again because i think he's, he's heading towards a massive character assassination. i can't imagine wester's already. yeah. it's already started. it's already started. you know, don't be surprised if they find child is left already settled. this taxes are repeat up an ex wife or, or is enrolled in criminal gangs or anything that's possible. but the story isn't ethic piece investor jealous. it really stunning him as well in his college, in the as just every paragraph is endorsed as various lives, but it just throws up so many extraordinary questions. extraordinary. as a journalist has been covering a lot of these countries, really victims of the us intervention, how oil oil pipelines just keeps on coming up again and again. and again. when you

look at using sure, it's something to do with try to find for you over a sheet oil and is nearly always to do with pipeline even to get this done was actually a story about george w bush, george. so george was senior and they are huge energy deal for a telephone company trying to build a pipeline right across the country and negotiating with each other in the late ninety's. it was all about oil pipelines. and again, it's the same story with, with the ukraine. well, what this proves the incredible piece of journals improves beyond any doubt is the americans, the button administration light and light and light. and every thing that we see here from mainstream media is just a huge light and it was the you talked about. so the reference to, to our there was a mystery. this was a new york times. this wasn't some tabloid, you haven't heard of the, you can, it was a new york times. we're the biggest joy it l. darren improve today. so, you know,

android, as even today, i know just refer to see my article as a blog. i mean think about that. he's rattle the establishment. you know, with his page, but he rattled them, you know, you've been rattling them since the me line massacre. ok. yes. he didn't publish his, his work on some stuck because he's been so discriminated against because he annoys the me. it says well, calling you to blog again. glenn, you're in norway. norway is. it will get it in his investigation. here was no, we didn't media and the government here. well, one of the newspapers only had one word in the title, which is nonsense. but it's kind of a. well, it is very dismissive and i think it's unfortunate because i think for media they really need only ask 2 questions. is this true? that's what they have to pursue. and they said of public interest. now, the truth aspect in that would require them to do some journalism and follow up on

this leads and of course of a public interest. but who are the journalist no longer asked status question? rather, if you look in the reporting, the only question a seem to ask is, will this information assist nato or russia? and if it's seen us the favoring the russian narrative, then suddenly a ghost on the memory. holden, sir, unfortunate because i think i love this journalist, they think they're doing us a favor by skewing all the reporting. but at the end of the day, you know, the lose people losing trust in me then also to taking us down the very dangerous path. you know, 2 course of possible nuclear war. so i don't think they, they thought this a very well through and, and so again, a lot of them are the comments were when there were people make arguments which, you know, or doesn't matter how much fact the route in it, people assess, well, doesn't lean towards favoring rush or, or nato, if it seems to patient russia, then they always go after the person that don't addressed argument. so, seymour hersh, you know, how is the reporting media now, while he's a former investigative journalist, apparently not a whore. he's old,

he might be seen nile. he's accused of being a put, honest. and of course web posting this in a blog and because he's seen over the hill, that is one of the most respected investigative journalists of our time. not only in revealing this massacre of me line vietnam in the sixty's, but also in the abu ghraib prison scandal into 2009. surely, he deserves his case. the serfs to be heard, and if egg and maybe he's wrong, maybe over the hill, bought this the week in this of the paper i would say was that is based on, on the, on the source which can be confirmed. on the other hand, the strength is smarter, pointed out his huge amount of details. you know, this is a lot to follow up on. we don't have to take her word as a gospel, but surely there's a lot. journalists should get all this information a lot too much on to, let's see where this goes. but again, if it goes towards the point was seen as weakening the nato in washington narrative,

we don't want to follow this path. and again, it's, yeah, i think it's a disgrace in but martin, i'm glad that we'd be in the element of detail is brought up when i read it. i just saw this. i mean, if this is a fake story or he invested in norman's method, i'm an expert in making those details there. but when it would, it's important to understand. i think that again, we went over the open source information here. then we have this investigative journalism and they, they, they fall into each other just perfectly mean that i think both the view and our viewers, when were they were reading the article, realized, oh, okay, that, that piece there. that makes sense because we knew this in advance. i mean, there's no refuting of facts. there's just refuting of him. yeah, it's become, will become intense, personalized. it will be all about him. but i just, i just some googling before one and i noticed that the stories being picked up

quite a lot around the world. so in this situation, a certain point, the american journalists are almost obliged to actually follow up and actually report the reported missing this will probably happen in the next couple of weeks. folks are using it as a way of attacking the by the ministration that's supposed to be expected. i take, which i would take glenn's point to talk about the source. i think it was more than one source if i remember looking at again. but i think there were a couple of sources that as a gentleness, you know, we, we tend to look at the tiny details. and we notice that there is a certain resonance. and the article of bitterness from these sources who tend to seem to be on by and saw, you know, there is a real intelligence community, takes nothing more than a president who is sloppy and indiscreet with operations that are undergoing are about to go. and there's a few sideswiped, it was quite shocked about the statements by made about the under secretary statements as well. you know,

it was all very indiscreet. so i think that's important. but for me, their article really does throw up some incredibly important questions, isn't germany then just american? you know, that's exactly what i want to ask for to be a glenn. i mean, i don't read generally and i tell you know, i can just jump into the russian and the german media sphere. but from what i can gather, it's been a very muted reaction by them. i mean, and they're the biggest victims. and all of this really this after sitting, sucking up lin. yeah, well, they're taking another one on the chin. i guess i see and i read off my german is a high school level, so i'm at home brushed too much baba in the from reading spiegel and all that put it into for a new section. is there pipeline, by the way, and they kind of refer to, you know, a russian allegations and in on that they're on del, too much into the, to the specific accusations but, but again, it's a, it's, i think, shots is becoming a bit humiliated casino. you have this pipeline and kind of run those stuff. the

united states at least as the, has been behind this. like really it, how much more evidence do we need from? it's a officials but also it's a continuation of this tank issue where obviously u. s. pressured them into sending the live part tanks and the yourself gotta save this, and abrams publish, or at least not for another year or so, but i'm guessing it was only to push them so they kind of know, notice how they're being manipulated and pressured and a lot of german officials are getting quite oh, isn't that on the thought hold that thought we have a good, a hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on some real new st. with archy ah ah, the joggers archipelago homer, the jo, san diego garcia, the largest island in the archipelago is now the location of a very large

u. s. military base. you get given med, div our i to the us government to make a military base and just deported all of the juggle send people from their country . so they called return back on the island. no, no, but we are fighting. that's why i'm flat. we'll fighting for the right. so i, we do not consider that the right to self determination actually applies to the trickle. since i don't the question, no self determination, the legal advice we've received is actually the trickle. since we're not and all not a people for me, it's time to move on and see what we can do. a full the tumbler said committee to return back home. they acknowledged support from the nomination. i commission after getting united miss, i don't care about chug or send people with

ah, welcome back across the dock were all things are considered. i'm peter. well, this is the home addition to remind you. we're discussing some real news, a go back to martin america. when it's in looking at the reaction to it or non reaction to this story, if there's a certain service that i get from the official american legacy media, is that yeah, well, so what we can do, it may be, this kind of impunity is and plus the watching the germans particularly

show being humiliated they that mission accomplished. okay. i mean they are doing everything. glenn said he took another one on the cheek. i mean, is there any, i don't know how many takes he has a keeps getting hit over and over and over again. so, i mean, you know, the fact that the germans are being humiliated again and it tells people to get in line. you know, there's, you know, where the unity has lots of bar go ahead. yeah. again, i wonder how much immigration shows can. i also wonder what actually happened in the white house 3 weeks before nuclear war started? when, when shoot the button was a deal struck, then by the say, look, you know, we're going to go ahead and blow up anyway, so you might as well get on board. what did you, she shows, did he, did he suggest that it was an option? we might lately to look at, i mean, the interesting thing is the time life, you know, and, and, and her just is really lay this up really play in. it makes the point again and

again again, which is going to be very hard for us just to completely ignore this. you know, by them basically prepared himself or spread the administration from almost they want more. must january, 2021 to blow these pipes. pipelines you know, was always considered, reflect that was considered a stretch to america's ability to throw his weight around in europe. the americans were always intimidated and vexed by germany as dependency on cheap gas from russia . so the thinking was where we can get them on board to actually go ahead the a war in ukraine. we need to do something which actually pushes some way rely, so they have 2 choices. i think it's actually amazing. i mean, what is this, what are we actually talking about in terms of international law? we're talking about international terrorism, an active international terrorism. i think by the grace of god, the fact that 49 percent of the company which owns those pipelines was european, if it was a 100 percent, russia, we could be looking at

a world war situation. and it's just not an exaggeration. payment's been remarkably held back and restrained over this, but it tells me i want to address this to both of you. okay. well civilian infrastructure in international waters or in the air space is fair game? no, yeah. their game. so what can we expect campaign? would it be realistic? would it be reasonable to assume some sort of response for the russians? well i, i absolutely think so, and i think there's always reciprocity, but it's a symmetrical. be that time in place of their choosing here, glen, in the broader scheme of things here, there are always people talking about there needs to be a cease fire that needs to be negotiated. end of this. but if you have an administration which you know, the, the, the investigative integrity that the c, my hearse brings to this here. mean the,

what are the russian supposed to say? i meaning, if you deny something that is patently obvious, all of the agree, the minute process, all the things you've been depleted is every step of the way. but now you're going to be honest with us. it doesn't work that way. no, but it might have been with, doesn't matter cuz i think it, it is s as a doesn't. i happened to costa to media again, as i mentioned, they don't really report on that. the a we have the wisdom instagram until 7 years of sabotaging it's very openly the u. s. and u. k. especially and and also never in reporting even when soleski was saying we're not gonna follow this anymore. there are the media still reports that while rush us to one not implementing it in the end of the texas. they're black and white so. so nonsense. and even now after russian they did, you have, you know, the israeli prime minister going out for me from mr. bennett, actually saying, listen, hey, the ukrainians wanted to set a peace agreement that the russians wanted it. this is early march, or we, we, we could have done that, but the, the west said no, especially u. s. in

u. k. they wanted to continue this to smash potent head if for some opportune to fight approx a war against them so you know, no matter watson does matter what the ukrainians wanted. that's. that's why they put the block down then they, they, sir ellis, i pushed out us, negotiated the turks take over. the turkish foreign minister says the same thing that we were close a deal both sides wanted it, and then the west, cept in. the said no, we want to fight rashana with this ukranian so so no matter what the ukrainians want woke will continue. then the heels of this reports by the she on a hill and her colleague in a foreign affairs. this are people who are top in the intelligence in network and us and also democratic care in not leaders, but they are high up in the democratic party. they also wrote to foreign affairs. yeah. they were close to an agreement. and what russia most important for it wanted only for ukraine to commit the self, not to taking more nato and us weapons on the russian borders desolate russia wanted ukraine wanted, it's territory back so they were very close to deal. and then what's happened them

here since then them and the british steps in and offer all the weapons in the world, if, if their fists and older men to the front, that's what mitch mcconnell said as well is all nice and well. and down to this old idea of, you know, how brave ukrainians are, but this is ultimately about american interest. we have to knock out the russia. that's our goal. lindsa graham saying the same thing. this is a great deal for us to. we've promised lensky would provide all the weapons in the world, and he just has to send all his men the fight to the last man. that's his word, fight down to the last ukrainian. and then all of this goes under the umbrella of we want to help them, like we have screwed over the ukrainians from day one for the language. but we did this and then we call it helping a funny, so cynical and it's disgusting. it's horrible. well, you know, martin, that i mean future historian, so maybe explain to his wife the lindsey getting is saying yeah, will sacrifice our people. that's really truly extorted. glen. this is absent from

the media. look, you know, you have the israel, the premise sitting there. thing if word by word, there's no denial afterwards and the media sees it and if that is true, yes, is it the interest of the public? yes, will publish it. know of its strength and the rush narrative, so it disappears. and that's what i mean. the reality no longer really matters if you, if you don't want to report on anything. and so it's, it's, it's a 3rd situation. and it's very interesting. and when you get, again, you know, this propaganda machine, you know, protecting ukraine sovereignty. while the u. s. has no interest in protecting its own southern border, but that's another topic for the program. but i mean, you know, talking about, you know, ukraine's international standing an existence here. but what the destruction of the pipelines is basically telling germany you have no sovereignty in any sense of the word we will determine your interests. ok,

and we will act upon them particularly when they're not in your interest. martin. yeah, going back to glenn's point. i think is actually true. you know, everything is there. well, the evidence that you need to look for is already there already on the net or sort of been recorded is youtube. it's there for people to see. and the journalist a just choosing not to see it, it wasn't just the piece talks in march, i think which, you know, seem to have gone to the 11th hour were both, such because we agreed, which was sculpted by the americans and british. it was actually, this was worse than that. if you look at the timeline and go back to biden's an alteration just before i think in december 2020, the russians are correct me if i'm wrong, send the document to the americans, which basically sets out what they would like america or nature to do which is take this concept, this idea, this notion that ukraine could be a new nature member off the table. that's all we have to do. does seem like we look at it now. it doesn't seem like a big deal now because actually it's already off the table. so that gives you an

idea of just how simple whoa, is how life the author was. clearly, this administration from the very, very beginning the ukraine war and it's so it's on my even goes far to say is that they actually planned it. i mean, when you know something is about to happen and you sit back and prepare yourself for it so that you profit on every level and that was really by the stone. you know, he's not this idea into the longer us it's interesting and i can remember i'm using my own words. this program is it? yes, this was a trap in the russians fell for it. okay. no other choice, however, i would say glen then, but by setting this trap, nato is set a trap for itself because everything it martin is right. this is very well when that remember, the same players were in the and the obama administration. they just to go for here break, and then as soon as they got back into power, they went right back with the interest them. and ukraine was one of them here. but you know, the, the,

the assumption that the rest of the economy would collapse to be an uprising and be seen. that was all part of it too. ok. that didn't happen. and i think that's the point that they find themselves in here. and what is inexplicable for me? and again, i want to go back to the zelinski and volunteering their own people. ok, you know, for the us, you know, empty their storage, you know, stocks and all that. that's all nice and fine print money until the cows come home . but giving up your own people, it's truly extraordinary. go ahead. land. no, it is dreadful. and i had to serve quick. i just wanna add something on the german aspect. i mean, me imagine being a germ politician or journalist. no, you know, it does no evidence that russia blew up. it's on pipelines, they never met incense and also the admitted there is no evidence. and yet you have to refer to russian playbook or some propaganda. wild americans, top official, although there's atlantic sending us celebrating the destruction of the pipeline. you have to sit there and pretend it in or no, no, it's just propaganda thrush. it must be a horrible situation to be in and,

and in the can't, you know, report on facts either. so, but no, i agree. it's not home syndrome. i mean they're, they're, they're, they're really capture, they, they did their, the politicians are captured, the media is captured. everybody knows the true. anyone is interested in the story can figured out pretty easily. we yeah, i'm, i'm not a brain surgeon, but i mean, all, everything that was laid out made sense to me and i said it from, you know, it's obviously who did it because who benefit from it? that's all you ask ahead. well, wasn't, was been very open up, you know, for past due a 1020 years about a subjective of strike to sever the russian economy from the european, especially the russian from the german. because this is something, you know, death would undermine the america's role. and i think they with through sanctions and destruction this pipeline to be quite successful at it. but the problem is when you assess restored is hedge a monic role. it's block discipline, if you will, on in europe. know that we were all now bending to washington. but to them, the problem of this whole thing was the world is no longer western centric to

search or all parts of the rest of the world. so, in russia, sending us energy in the, not even to its, its allies, ohio oppose america. but even india, they were non existent, oil supply to india only a year ago. now they're the biggest supply of crude oil to india, 20 percent, or something it is, is crazy. and now of course, how are you going to wrestle india away from russia? now they're getting closer and closer. it might be problematic to put to push the indians against china because the interests of china in india alone has changed so much. now. i think yes, the youth restored had them on in europe, but they have growing multiplier than the rest of the rest of the royal. that is the topic for another program. ok, we've run out of time. your fascinating discussion, you know, i think, i guess america and i want to thank our viewers for watching is here to see you next time. remember, oh, our

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madeline, but he at the grocery systems is going to plenty of scope. i don't really to include the deal. i a would lose position. all the russian forces inside the village of body are to follow the russian troops as they advanced in a battle for one of the key ukrainian strongholds outside done yet as jerky and serious struggle with the aftermath of a devastating earthquake humanitarian help is being delivered from all over the world, including from one of the most prices stricken states, nothing ruled out that's the comment of the u. s. air force official on whether the .