carrabas that brings us more details. 37 people have lost their lives over the last week, through various protests, and some of them in the oral region of the country. the church had a problem, it has the senate, which is the counsel of the church which operates on the blessings of his holiness . the lead on the highest and 3 of those bishops in the council went rogue and decided to a day and some 20 think bishops in the room. the reason for the rebel bishop claim that the church is actually discriminating against the people of or on the in i said the language itself and the culture is not included in the church, therefore, is not as diverse or as broad as it can be. the church has subsequently excommunicated those bishops and refuses to recognize that while the government, on the other hand speaks about 2 groups coming together to find the way in the middle. and they change the thing that they are new to groups, the just the church. and the bishops who have been excommunicated. part of the

problem, of course, is how the, the government has handled some of the churches concerns if you will. the church wanted to have a peaceful demonstration on sunday yesterday to wife this me without government has handle this, but also how government continues to neglect some of the people there and not address the concerns of the church, which is the fact that they feel they've been invalid treated by people who effectively work for the government, and they just masquerading as men and women of the clergy. now that has not really gotten down well with the government who quickly upon return from a way can visit in italy and france came back in the someone's in security as citizens hired. and meant to figure out a way to get out from this protest without necessarily equipping any with me. he said that it presents

a hum because the church has been infiltrated by enemies of ethiopia, while the church, on the other hand, if they have a right to peacefully protest and government must remove it from its clergy. those are the top stories this hour and at night is the mystery of the north trip to pipeline explosion. saw now that a veteran investigative journalist exposed the u. s. and data types with me up on our case products with

hello in welcome to cross stock. were all things are considered, i'm peter about. we were told it was one of those mysteries of the ages. this is how the west describe the destruction of the north stream pipelines. then came along betral investigative journalist, seymour hersh. he tells us differently and in great detail. indeed, the bye. didn't ministration led the way destroying this civilian infrastructure? ah, discuss these issues and more. i'm joined by my guest, glen deason, in our slow he is a professor at the university of se or norway, as well as author of the book, great power politics in the 4th industrial revolution. and in myra cash, we crossed to martin j. he is in award winning, journalist and commentator for a gentleman, cross up rules and effect. that means you can jump anytime you want,

and i always appreciate it. i've got a glitch in our slow. so we came into seymour hersh, came out with his report, has investigated reporting on the north, the ending of the north stream pipelines ending very much like what biden said, i was setting next to the the german chancellor. so glen, i mean, this is supposed to be a great mystery, but it's not really much of the great of a mystery because when after it happened, that was very little bit talk about it. and when someone like seymour hersh, legendary journalist writes about it, it's completely dismissed and hardly reported on your thoughts. well, this is sam. i keep problem i with the how me the limits the debate. i mean is a good. you can give the illusion of having a open democratic debate if you only narrow the scope of what's allowed to be discussed. so wasa draw show or was it a mystery? as long as you have a vibrant debate within that scope a, it ceased to give dilution but, but again, it should have been if he would have come as a big surprise for, for

a father speak, it costs us. you mentioned washington for years. you know, they tried to stop this project to come them the germans for building, if they've been sanctioned. dear p companies for building it, you know, in the name of protecting our energy security. and we have the rand report order for the u. s. army say on how to weaken and extend russia. and again, in terms of energy, it said the 1st step was to stop nor stream to, you know, he had to compare. i said, we'll do everything we can to stop it. i desultory in england. think and all it is all oh, all open source. yeah. open source in that newland as well said at the, you know, we will find the way of stopping this in a town called news to word we're gonna kill north stream to let it rust beneath the baltic. and of course this is walked biden. oswell city was very opened in a standing next to the german chancellor thing if russia goes in to ukraine, you will stop it. and no matter what's and, and how are you going to do this?

the journalist southwell trust us, we can do it to so it's, it's a, it's a, you know, there's a mountain of evidence there that they wanted to do it. and after it was blown up, you had, you know, 1st of all, the polish, for a previous foreign minister at alex who scored his case. or i think thank you you a say in just remove any doubt to posted a picture of the exploded pipeline. and then you had the told anthony blink and coming out, send me this thing, this is a tremendous opportunity. now maybe we can finally replace the russian energy and with american. then again that only recently victoria newland came out once again that i'm trying to call her back. she made it very clear that she and the united states administration were very gratified that nordstrom now was uncle metal at the bottom of the sea. so, you know, if this was open to base or, or a trial you would have some very strong evidence say that perhaps you didn't even mention the details of the marshes article you gave all the open source here. and

then we have his article kind of connect. so let me gonna mark martin here. it's kind of like an inverted o j. simpson case. ok oj was let off. ok fine. he didn't kill is ex wife and her boyfriend then who did? i mean, this is the us and its allies will dismisses the medium. we'll talk about it. so if it's what c, my hearse probably was one of the greatest living journals of our time. if he's wrong, been we who did do it, there is no interest in that either. margaret spirit just goes completely against the narrative which has been fed to the job this. yeah, nobody wants to go there. nobody wants to deal in doing this is and i don't know about the reference to oj, i'm worried to see my she's going to end up driving across america. i'm on live tv with people chase again because i think he's, he's heading towards a massive character assassination. i can't imagine wester's already already started . it's already started. you know, don't be surprised if they find child is left already fiddle. this taxes are paid

up an ex wife or, or is enrolled in criminal gangs or anything that's possible. but the story isn't epic. peace, investor jealous. it really stunning him as well in his college, in the as just every paragraph is endorsed as various lives, but it just throws up so many extraordinary questions. extraordinary. as a journalist has been covering a lot of these countries really liked him. so for us intervention, how oil oil pipelines just keeps on coming up again and again. and again, when you look at using sure, it's something to, to, was try to find for you over a cheap oil and is nearly always to do with pipeline even to get this done. was actually a story about george w bush, george. so george was senior trying to nail a huge energy deal for a telephone company trying to build a pipeline right across the country and negotiating with each other in the late ninety's. it was all about oil pipelines. and again, it's the same story with,

with the ukraine. well, what this proves, the incredible piece of journals improves beyond any doubt is the americans, the button administration light and light and light. and every thing that we see here from mainstream media is just a huge light. and it was the you, you talked about the reference to, to our there was a mystery. this was a new york times. this wasn't some tabloid, you haven't heard that you can. it wasn't new york times were the biggest joy it l darren improve today. so you know, android as even today, i know just refer to see my article as a broke. let me think about that. he's rattle the establishment. you know, with this page, but he rattled them, you know, you've been rattling them since the me line massacre. ok. yes. he didn't publish his his work on some stuck because he's been so discriminated against because he annoys the the be. it says, well, calling you to blog again. if glen you're in norway,

norway is implicated in his investigation. here was no, we didn't media and the government here. oh so, so one of the newspapers only had one word in the title, which is nonsense. but it's kind of a, well, it is very dismissive and i think it's unfortunate because i think for media they really need to only ask 2 questions. is this true? that's what they have to pursue. and they said of public interest. now, the truth aspect in that would require them to do some journalism and follow up on this leads and of course of a public interest. but who are the journalist no longer asked status question? rather, if you look in the reporting, the only question i seem to ask is, will this information assist nato or russia? and if it's seen us of favoring the russian narrative, then suddenly it goes on the memory. hold on, sir, unfortunate, because i think a lot of this journalist, they think they're doing us a favor by skewing all the reporting. but at the end of the day, you know,

the lose people losing trust in me then also to taking us down the very dangerous path. you know, 2 course of possible nuclear war. so i don't think they, they thought this a morales through and, and so again, a lot of them are the comments were when there were people make arguments which you know, or does matter how much fact to rooted in it. people assess, well, doesn't lean towards favoring rush or, or nato, if it seems okay that russia, then they always go after the person that don't addressed argument. so seymour hersh, you know, how is the reporting media now, while he's a former investigative journalist, apparently not a whore, he's old, he might be senile. he's accused of being a put, honest. and of course web posting this in a blog. and because he's seen over the hill, that is one of the most respected investigative journalists of our time, not only in revealing this massacre of me, line vietnam in the sixty's, but also do the upgrade the prison scandal into 2000 the shirley. he deserves

his case. the serfs to be heard, and if egg and maybe he's wrong, maybe over the hill, bought this, the weakness of the paper i would say was that is based on, on the, on the source which can be confirmed. on the other hand, the strength is smarter, pointed out his huge amount of details. you know, this is a lot to follow up, and we don't have to take her word as a gospel, but surely there's a lot. journalists should get all this information a lot too much on to, let's see where this goes. but again, if it goes towards the point we've seen a weakening the nato in washington narrative, we don't want to follow this path. and again, it's, yeah, i think it's a disgrace in but martin, i'm glad that we be in the element of detail is brought up when i read it. i just thought this was, i mean, if this is a fake story and he invested enormous time and effort and making up those details there. but with martin, when it would,

it's important to understand. i think that again we went over the open source information here. then we have this investigative journalism and they, they, they fall into each other just perfectly mean that i think both the view and our viewers, when were they were reading the article, realized, oh, okay, that, that piece there. that makes sense because we knew this in advance. i mean, there's no refuting of facts. there's, is there refuting of him? yeah, it's become, will become intense to personalize. it will be able about him. but i just, i just some googling before one and i noticed that the story is being picked up quite a lot around the world. so in this situation, a certain point, the american journalists are almost obliged to actually, you know, follow up and actually report the reported. and i think that's what probably happened in the next couple of weeks. folks are using it as a way of attacking the, by the ministration that's supposed to be expected. i take, which i would take glens point to talk about the source. i think it was more than

one source if i remember looking at again. but i think there were a couple of sources that as a gentleness, you know, we, we tend to look at the tiny details. and we notice that there is a certain resonance in the article of bitterness from these sources who tend to seem to be owned by them. so, you know, there is a real intelligence community takes nothing more than a president who is sloppy and indiscreet with operations that are undergoing are about on the go. and there's a few sideswiped. it was quite shocked about the statements by made about the under secretary statements as well. you know, it was all very indiscreet. so i think that's important. but for me, their article really does serve up some incredibly important questions, isn't germany then just american? you know, that's exactly what i want to ask for to be a glenn. i mean, i don't read your when i tell, you know, i can just jump into the russian and the german media sphere. but from what i can

gather, it's been a very muted reaction by them. i mean, and they're the biggest victims. and all of this really this after sitting, sucking up when yeah, well they're taking another one on the chin, i guess i see, and i read off my german, it's a high school level, so i don't brush too much about it from reading spiegel and all that put it into for a new section. is there pipeline, by the way, and they can refer to, you know, a russian allegations and in, on that they're on del, too much into the, to the specific accusations. but, but again, it's a, it's, i think shots is becoming of accumulated casino. you have this pipeline and kind of run those that the united states, at least as the, has been behind this. like really it, how much more evidence do we need from? it's a officials, but also it's a continuation of this a tank issue. we're obviously u. s. pressured them into sending the li apart tanks and the u. s. i gotta save this sunday abrams publish, or at least not for another year or so, but i'm guessing it was on the depression them so they can no notice how they're being manipulated and pressured and a lot of german officials are getting quite oh,

isn't that on the thought hold that thought we have to go to a hard break, and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on some real estate with archy ah, the joggers archipelago coma, the jo, san diego garcia, the largest island in the archipelago is now the location of a very large u. s. military base. you get given med, give our i to the us government to make a military base and just deported all of the chuckles and people from their country . so they called returned back on the island. no, no, but we are fighting let's by i'm flat, we'll fighting for the right. so i,

we do not consider that the right to self determination actually applies to the trickle. since i don't the question, those self determination of the legal advice we've received is actually the trickle . since we're not at all, not a people for me, it's time to move on and see what we tend to a full become the said committee to return back home is knowledge support from the imagination di commission, african united michigan. don't care about chug restaurant people ah, welcome back across town where all things are considered peter bell. this is the home addition to remind you. we're discussing some real this the the let's go back to martin america. let me in looking at the reaction to it or non reaction to this story. if there's

a certain service that i get from the official american legacy media, is that yeah, well, so what we can do, it may be kind of impunity is and plus the, they watching the germans particularly show being humiliated. they that mission accomplished. okay. i mean, they are doing everything. glenn said he took another one on the cheek. i mean, is there any, i don't know how many kicks he has, keeps getting hit over and over and over again. so, i mean, you know, the fact that the germans are being humiliated again, and it tells people to get in line, you know, where the unity has lots of bar go ahead. again, i wonder how much immigration shows can. i also wonder what actually happened in the white house, 3 weeks before nuclear war started when, when she visited and was a deal struck then by to say, look, you know, we're going to go ahead and blow up anyway. so you might as well get on board. what

did he, she shows the dream, did he suggest that it was an option we might lately to look at? i mean, the interesting thing is the time life, you know, and, and, and hers just is really laid us up brilliantly. and it makes the point again and again again, which is going to be very hard for us. gentleness to completely ignore this, you know, by them. basically prepared himself or spread the administration from almost they want the most january, 2021 to blow these pipes shortly. pipelines, you know, was always considered, reflect that was considered a fresh to america's ability to throw his weight around in europe. the americans were always intimidated and vexed by germany as dependency on cheap gas from russia . so the thinking was, when we call and get them on board to actually go ahead with a war in ukraine, we need to do something which actually pushes the way, relying so they have 2 choices. it's actually amazing. i mean, what is this,

what are we actually talking about in terms which natural law, we're talking about international terrorism, an active international terrorism. i think by the grace of god. the fact that 49 percent of the company which owns those pipelines was your opinion, if it was 100 percent russian, we could be looking at a world war situation. and there's just no exaggeration. prudence been remarkably held back and restrained over this, but it tells me i don't want to address this to both of you. okay, well civilian infrastructure in international waters or in the air space is fair game. no game. so what we expect would it be realistic? would it be reasonable to assume some sort of response from the russians? well i, i absolutely think so, and i think there's always reciprocity, but it's a symmetrical be a time in place of their choosing here. glenn, in the broader scheme of things here,

there are always people talking about there needs to be a ceasefire that needs to be negotiated, end of this. but if you have an administration which, you know, the, the, the investigative integrity that the seem, or her springs to this here mean the, or what are the russian supposed to say? i meaning if you deny something that is patently obvious, all of the great, the minute process, all the things you've been deployed is every step of the way. but now you're going to be honest with us. it doesn't work that way. no, but it might have been with doesn't matter cuz i think it it, it says it doesn't. i happened because stood to media again, as i mentioned, they don't really report on that a. we have the wisdom instagram until 7 years of sabotaging it's very openly the us and you can especially and then it was never in reporting even when soleski was saying, we're not gonna follow this anymore. there are the media still reports that while rush us to one not implementing it in the end of the texas, they're black and white so. so nonsense. and even now, after rush and they did,

you have it a, it's really prime minister going out for me from mister bennett's actually saying, listen, it the ukrainians wanted to say the peace agreement that the russians wanted it. this is early march and we, we could have done that, but the, the west said no, especially us in u. k. they wanted to continue this to smash potent, did it for some opportune to fight approx a war against them. so, you know, no matter. watson does matter what the ukrainians wanted. that's. that's why they put the block down then they, they, sir ellis, i pushed out us, negotiated the turks take over. the turkish foreign minister says the same thing that we were close a deal both sides wanted it. and then the west stepped in, the said, no, we want to fight rashana with this ukranian so so no matter what the ukrainians want woke will continue. then the heels of this reports by the she on a hill and her colleague in a foreign affairs. this are people who are top in the intelligence in networking, us and also democratic kid in not leaders, but they are high up in the democratic party. they also wrote to foreign affairs.

yeah. they were close to an agreement. and what russia most important for it wanted only for ukraine to commit to self, not to taking more nato and us weapons on the russian borders desolate russia wanted ukraine wanted, it's territory back so they were very close to deal. and then what's happened, the americans than them and the british steps in and offer all the weapons in the world if, if they fastened older men to the front, that's what mitch mcconnell said as well, is all nice and well. and down to this old idea of, you know, how brave ukrainians are, but this is ultimately about american interest. we have to knock out the rush. that's our goal. lindsa green saying the same thing. this is a great deal for us to. we've promised lensky would provide all the weapons in the world, and he just has to send all his men the fight to the last man. that's his word, fight down to the last ukrainian. and then all of this goes under the umbrella of we want to help them, like we have screwed over the ukrainians from day one. i'll just for the language, but we did this and then we call it helping a funny,

so cynical and it's disgusting. it's horrible. well, you know, a martin that i mean a future historian, so maybe explain to his wife the lensky getting is saying, yeah, will sacrifice our people. that's really, truly extorted. glen. this is absent from the media. look, you know, you have the israel, the premise or sitting there thing if word by word, there's no denial afterwards and the media sees it and this is a true yes. is it the interest of the public? yes, we'll publish it. no, because it's strengthened, rush narrative, so it disappears. and that's what i mean. the reality no longer really matters if you, if you don't want to report on anything. and so it's, it's, it's a 3rd situation. and it's very interesting. and when you get, again, you know, this propaganda machine, you know, protecting ukraine sovereignty, while the u. s. has no interest in protecting its own southern border. but that's another topic for the program. but i mean, you know, talking about, you know,

ukraine's international standing an existence here. but what the destruction of the pipelines is basically telling germany you have no sovereignty, in any sense of the word, we will determine your interests. okay. and we will act upon them, particularly when they're not in your interest. martin? yeah, i'm going to go and point things out. so you true, you know, everything is there. well, the evidence that you need to look for is already there already on the net or sort of been recorded is youtube. it's there for people to see. and the journalist just choosing not to see it. it wasn't just the piece talks in march, which you know seemed to have gone to the 11th hour where both such because we agreed, which was sculpted by the americans and british. it was actually worse than that. if you look at the timeline and go back to biden's an alteration just before i think in december 2020, the russians are correct me if i'm wrong, send the document to the americans, which basically sets out what they would like america or nature to do which is take

this concept, this idea, this notion that ukraine could be a new nature member off the table. that's all we have to do. does we look at it now? it doesn't seem like a big deal now, because actually it's already off the table. so that gives you an idea of just how simple, how you know is how life it be. also was clearly this administration from the very, very beginning you claim war and it's, so it's on my even goes far to say is that they actually planned it. i mean, when you know something is about to happen and you sit back and prepare yourself for it so that you profit on every level and that was really by the stone. you know, he's not this idea into the long grass. it's interesting and i can remember i'm using my own words, this program, is it? yes, this was a trap in the russians fell for it. okay, no other choice. however, i would say glen then, but by setting this trap, nato is set

a trap for itself because everything it martin is right. this is very well that we remember the same players were in the and the obama administration. they just to go for here break, and then as soon as they got back into power, they went right back with the interest them. and ukraine was one of them here. but you know, the, the, the assumption that the rest of the economy would collapse to be an uprising me. that was all part of it too. ok. that didn't happen. and i think that's the quandary that they find themselves in here. and what is inexplicable for me, and again, i want to go back to it. zelinski is volunteering their own people. ok. you know, for the us, you know, empty their storage, you know, stocks and all that. that's all nice and fine print money until the cows come home . but giving up your own people and it's truly extraordinary. go ahead land. no, it is dreadful. and i had to sir quick, i just wanna add something on the german aspect. i mean, me imagine being a germ politician or journalist. no, you know, dis, no evidence that russia blew up. it's on pipelines. they never met incense and also

the admitted they so evidence. and yet you have to refer to russian playbook or some propaganda. wild americans, top official on the other side, lundy, sending us celebrating the destruction of the pipeline. you have to sit there and pretend it in or no, no, it's just propaganda thrush. it must be a horrible situation to be in and, and in the can't, you know, report on facts either. so, but no, i agree that's not home syndrome. i mean they're, they're, they're, they're really capture, they, they did their, the politicians are captured, the media is captured. everybody knows the true. anyone is interested in the story can figured out pretty easily. we yeah, i'm, i'm not a brain surgeon, but i mean, all, everything that was laid out made sense to me. and i said it from, you know, it's obviously who did it because who benefit from it? and that's all you ask ahead. well, wasn't, was been very open and, you know, for past was 1020 years about a subjective of strike to sever the russian economy from the european, especially the russian from the german. because this is something, you know, death would undermine america's role. and i think they would,

through sanctions and destruction this pipeline to be quite successful at it. but the problem is, are you assess restored? is hedge a monic role? it's block discipline, if you will, on in europe. know that we were all now bending to washington. but that of the problem of this whole thing was the world is no longer western centric to search all parts of the rest of the world. so, in russia, sending us energy in the, not even to its, its allies, ohio oppose america. but even india, they were non existent, oil supplies to india, only a year ago. now they're the biggest supplier of crude oil to india, 20 percent or something. it is crazy. and now of course, how are you going to wrestle india away from russian? now they're getting closer and closer. it might be problematic to put to push the indians against china because the interest of china in india alone has changed so much. now. i think yes, the u. s. restore had them on in europe, but they have growing multiplier than the rest of the russ arroyo. that is the topic for another program. ok, would run out of time. your fascinating discussion,

you know what i think my guess, and i'll slow ended america, and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at ortiz. see you next time, remember? ah ah ah, u. s. is recruiting and training is limited terrorists, and it's based in syria to commit the tax on russia and neighboring state. that's according to russia's foreign intelligence service. i would most position hold the russian forces inside the village of mighty and r t follows russian troops as they advanced in a battle for one of the keys ukrainian strongholds outside done yet nothing ruled out. that's the comment of the u. s. air force official on whether the mysterious object shot down in canada overnight.