and functioned as a universal concentration camp. the majority of the population, including women and children, were forced to work on the rubber plantations. those who failed to fulfill their quota were beaten and mutilated. to keep the congolese people under control, the king set up the so called forest bleak which were punitive detachments that cast terror on the captured country and its inhabitants. fearing that their subordinates would simply waste bullets hunting for wild animals. the officers demanded that the soldiers gave an answer for every bullet used, and as proof presented a chop hand of an african, it was not uncommon when trying to justify the use of the ammunition. the colonist amputated the hands of not only those who were dead, but also of those who were kept alive. the atrocious exploitation of the congo turned into a real genocide. in only 20 years, the policy of the belgians led to the death of merely 10000000 people. alongside

the holocaust that genocide of the congo population is considered to be one of the grimmest pages in the history of mankind. 2 2 2 ah, the difficulty that national security whistleblowers face is not unique to the united states. other countries around the world treat their national security whistle blowers harshly, especially when those whistleblowers reveal evidence of war crimes. one of the best and most recent examples is from australia were david mcbride, a former australian army attorney, is facing criminal charges because of his revelations that australian soldiers committed war crimes and crimes against humanity in afghanistan. mcbride decorated combat veteran now faces the prospect of spending much of the rest of his life in prison. i'm john kerry aku and you're watching the whistle lowers.

ah. 2 2 2 2 david mcbride is one of those rare whistleblowers who did exactly what he was trained to do when witnessing evidence of a crime. he went through his chain of command. but when his chain of command refused to do anything to investigate his allegations, he went to the media, the resulting outcry, let to something called the bremerton commission, led by major general justice paul burton, of new south wales, who led an investigation into mcbride's allegations. not only did justice bremerton find that everything david mcbride said was true. he recommended that no charges be filed for mcbride's decision to go to the media. and what was it that david mcbride alleged? he said that while he was serving in the australian army as an attorney, he saw that $25.00 australian soldiers were responsible for the cold blooded murder

of 39 afghan civilians. the soldiers then planted weapons on the dead bodies in order to photograph evidence to justify the killings in something they called throw downs. david mcbride did the right thing. the breton commission says, so the australian media says so the australian public says so. so why does the government insist on prosecuting him? were joined by whistleblower. david mcbride. david, welcome to the show. so glad to have you. thank you very much, larry. it's laura. thank you. the pleasures ours. let's start at the beginning. you have a personal history of public service. you attended sidney university and then earned a 2nd degree at oxford. you joined the british army and served in germany before attending the elite royal military academy at sandhurst. you then commanded a platoon in northern ireland. after a period in the private sector, you return to australia and you join the army there as attorney,

you then served 2 tours in afghanistan and earned a combat service metal. it was during your time in afghanistan that you saw evidence of war crimes. you reported those crimes through the proper channels and then what happened? well, it was quite surprising. i didn't want to know about it. you know, quite clearly i became the problem and that is one of the things i guess it always sublet, saw on. if you, with what you're recording is really bad. the old as i said, you're according to probably already knew. and i don't want you. all you've done is reveal yourself as a problem. and am i a 100? and that was a, i guess it wasn't that surprising because i knew the leadership were involved. i knew the leadership,

this could not have happened without the general's least having some idea of what was going on. and i had to make mine too little comply to those very same generals who had some idea of what was going on. so i had a feeling it would go well. but i still as a lawyer, i knew that i had to my internal complaint. otherwise they would, i, you know, i really would be, i could go straight to gyle. i was quite surprised and you had had the same problem . redrawn case. yes, i was quite surprised to find out county the problem. i thought that i would get a pedal mom back eventually. you know that some judicial figure would hear about it or a some see her and thought military person would hear about it and i would go to patch been. so hang on. this is exactly the opposite of what we are meant to be doing, but that never had. and the problem is,

is pretty day. i hear exactly right. in my own case. when i 1st complained internally, i became known as the human rights guy, and a friend of mine came to me privately and said, you know, buddy, that's not a compliment. they're not complimenting you when they call you the human rights guy . and indeed, after having led the capture of the 3rd ranking official in al qaeda, i was turned down for promotion because they said at my promotion panel, i had demonstrated a shocking lack of commitment to counter terrorism. because i declined the torture training. so it's the same, yeah, the same situation that you went through, you go through your chain of command and it turns out it's your chain of command that either is committing the crime or covering up for the crime. so let me ask you this, the decision to go to the media must not have been an easy one if it wasn't in my own case when, when i decided to blow the whistle on the cia torture program. i couldn't go

through channels because my channels had created the torture program. i couldn't even go to congress because congress had secretly authorized and funded the torture program. my only choice was the media. was that in your calculation? did you not get satisfaction from any of the official channels that you went through? it's exactly the same and i can tell you how good it is. maybe your story is likely where but. but as you know, and a guy asked me to say you on this to it a program because it's an extremely lonely road. yes, you're not going to get a bacon. and to just to say someone else, i was the side. i really need may son, march. i should have been promoted to in the sense that i had completed all the things that you meant to can be, you know, complaint. i mean, you don't get assigned to the special forces unless you all one of the top performers. and i had t as i've been recommended for my son, you know, i had

a very, very strong history in that idea. a commander of soldiers, it'll was odd which not many boys. don. i know i was at oxford university, which no one died on how to pay, publish the old things and should have got you promoter. but yes i am. and what and doing man is sort of annoyed you. it would be that attack. and i guess if, if we always said where the bad guys, you know, we don't care math rights, we are chemical. you know, we just won a week and i am an ex judge, but we weren't whole day and day out about the terrible things that happened in yugoslavia. how people didn't stand up and 70. yeah. about how terrible the nazis were about how the law was. so important and act really stuck in my throat to say, hang on, you can't have it both ways. you cannot beat us around the head with doing the right thing. and then when i try to do the right sneak,

you trying to put me to the of the organization and would do that is a very evil them as a criminal honors. help us understand the timeline here. you reported your findings to your superiors years before going through the media. was it only after going to the media that the burton commission began investigating your findings? yeah, yeah. i say i thought connected with the i was the 1st person to stop mikey white's internally. and i guess i think what is even more shocking in australia. i don't know how long you to get me your interest and i used always. one of the things i used to hold up was the award i asked at one end, but it said it would work. and all the president's been leads of the sort of things which i thought all, well, that's kind of your, that's what i'm looking for. i had to get it all to realize that there was a fair bit of democrats versus republicans now in those things, right?

rather than just rather than just misses the right thing to do and out. but of course i was quite, i even astride, but he was hard to get media interest. this was to make, if you had a story about us all to writing someone or a story about a single and killing of a non entity. you might get it to wrong, but a story which is big about generals and probably menaces. politicians involved in number one to touch it because they are. and unfortunately, i think we've had media regressive media evolution in the now the major media companies are very corporatized. i know they never run a watergate top storage dye because they're the media companies are selling day, but the government, they get tax concessions that rely on the government to survive and running. a really big story which even it stopped the whole government. your guys to say key

people in the government had by i did a criminal why i just didn't want to know a name. and even the 1st journalist i saw was the sort of australian equivalent of but in the state or wood wood. and even he, he was happy to run a sort of bad soldiers story, but he wasn't get any, did eventually run that, but he wasn't really sh and, and he was already on that. but a bad government story that was, that was a bit too hot for people to handle. i want to ask you about justice brereton. his conclusions really were quite dramatic. he found that everything that you had said had been true. he found that war crimes had been committed. he noted that none of the soldiers implicated in the murders of civilians had been prosecuted. and then he urged that you not be charged with any crime. why then has the australian government been so adamant in pursuing you? it seems that with public pressure and the new government in canberra,

you would be rewarded rather than prosecuted. what happened? i think probably a bit like your case. the problem is being people realize, i'm a stranger is a member of someone in cold. well, you know, well the 5 i had it's ration and i and i, we are members of make a little gus, i'm a no, there is a, i am just paying it as a sort of a to me it was stand if you like it. i don't really care with the raw. busy and i guess they are worried if i played in this city chicago. yeah. and guy in the series that are thing they, i'm not how many more mcbride's there are out there. i believe they probably said the same to you. this is will be how they just fun, prosecuted year to decide off. we let him all, how many more going to come? i was going to come out. exactly right. and who wills?

who else is gonna end up at giles of waiting to stop on this die for the future as like a science? i mean, no one who's really prosecuted for, for a sanchez revelation. and so they can't really, it's not really a matter of revenge it's, it's a matter of we, we can't afford this tapped in the future because everybody finds out how we do out majesty tricks. we are in trouble, and i see it's because now that the u. s. controls, strider, i'm certainly for national security matters. and the usaa saying you're going to make an example of this guy because this guy gets off on board that a sergeant. what about what about assigns 2.0? that's right. we need to, we need to crush these guys when you just sort of put a head on, on polls outside deal before this on to say do not cross us. it doesn't matter. when do you think you're right you? you know?

yeah, they said these are all feet above your tiger. i haven't charged anyone is was old for him. but on want to get a good child. not if it makes sense, you know, it. if the media, once i sort of, you know, beholden to the gallery, but someone who beside, you know, in the 1970s washington has come home beside. this is wrong. that's right. i am and they wouldn't get away with. ringback but unfortunately, tons of change, i think now the public is you say the public are on saw. busy and, and now my best weapon, it seems when we had an initial hearing, i used to look at the u. s. hearings are the ones that you had to go circ and say, oh my god, no that's i would never win in that kind of hearing, but at least i got a chance in strategy because i've got a public interest defense to sign. this information is in the public interest, and the government have admitted it was a public interest story because they ended up putting out a statement saying, we're not gonna charge the id, say journalists to read a story because it was

a public story. now that means is kids get a stand which is the public it story. so i thought i was kind of went, but unfortunately they have invited the old national security canada now right with the always do the room, the ring or is it from america away? here i was the q that i could somehow not to get your legal press is farrah. the opposite has happened, and boy would not even allowed to side on it. risky, getting arrested for it. we just have to say in mutual terms, out, international partners ever said that the information that i want to use in my defense is too dangerous. even short judge the that's what they always do. all they do and they walk into court and they say national security and they try to shut down your defense. they try to, to prohibit you from using exactly the information that you need to justify your

righteous actions. david, please stay with us. we have to take a commercial break, you're watching the whistleblowers, we're going to take a short break, and then we're going to come back for more of our conversation with australian with lower david mcbride. stay tuned. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 do memory loss isn't usual forgetfulness a form of memory losses and ability to recall past events. ah, it can be general or concern some specific events only. in some cases, the memory laws can extend back decades starts an intensive course of memory recovery on rti

is nato in a state of panic. the west is losing its ukraine proxy war on russia. the more the west helps ukraine, the smaller ukraine becomes all the west money sanctions and military 8 appear to change nothing. this is why the situation is now so very day. 2 ah, we're speaking with australian national security whistleblower david mcbride, who revealed evidence of war crimes committed by australian troops in afghanistan and is being prosecuted for his revelations. david, i've seen in both the australian press and in the british press, that you have widespread support, not just from average people and from peace activists, but from attorneys, and elected officials in both countries who say that you are an example of the kind

of national security whistleblower who should be lauded for his revelations. what is it that the australian government is stuck on? is it that the information that you gave to the media was technically classified? is that what this is about? i think they just try to make an example of me. yeah. i say that yes, that's what their argument is. but if you drill down into what it doesn't make sense, this is, this is most of the stuff that i tried to depressed was simply reports. all people getting shots in afghanistan on a mountain, you know, over 10 years ago now. ah, it's a war, but we publicly knowledge. obviously we could, we are not what mike to pretending we were there. ah, it had a lot of books written about disney movies about it. there's been a defamation tax by a famous, an equivalent of a middle of all a when i was a kid to be a war criminal and he got by

a newspaper and he said them and subsequently by, by bought out. all witnesses, all was pistols. witnesses and they were discussed him in court apartment, the names and the names were protected like special forces operation job. but the but what went on has already been discussed in court. and none of the information in my case is any, any more serious than that? i do nothing is about any kind of weapons codes or whites capabilities. it's all about who shot, who won a mountain in afghanistan, and you knew what? and when they knew it, ah, that's on national security. that's national. embarrassed. and they are trying to say all it says citizens secret, but it doesn't make sense because it's all been published already and completely so. but what are the problems that you've got 8 when hort discussed it,

if i just insist to they the job not out, we cannot take any. why is this the secret? is not much the charge to do i he cut in sigh. well, ah, shoot, you know, you need to prove that to the, to the sounds of synchronous doesn't sound like things we don't already know, right. i just keep insisting saying, we kind of explain to you want started so, so important. i mean, we weren't even released. this is how pathetic striders we want, even were less on the details of the fact that we were involved in who in chile, which is sole pin. a shy roland, i was a necessity while we had the mirror and the american even the even the see i apparently had have released some sort of data. yes out. that's true. there's truth and he's tried. his work is trying to want, you know, 50 years later. well, i'm not, i'm asked to secret, you know that to fix us and it's pretty pathetic and they just using as

a weapon and it's a weapon. i think that they just angry um, but i also saw that a site that's not gonna not exist. i sense of guilt that on thy cross may in the sense that they broke all of us to that country, to the law, to ethics. what to do to military, on our, by breaking the law is not that i care about that. i say i brought it rules, but an, except that if i break the law, and if i come to robbers, are they going to be outed? they just this sort of petty, i pay, he bureaucrats on a mission and we're badge and they using the law as an excuse to get us in jumping . david, your attorneys and others say that it is unfathomable, that with all the information that has finally made it into the public domain, that you're still going through the nightmare of trial. justice burton wrote this

quote, perhaps the single most effective indication that there is a commitment to cultural reform is the demonstration that those who have been instrumental in the exposure of misconduct, or are known to have acted with propriety and probity. are regarded as role models on quote, that seems crystal clear to me and it sounds like a good defense. so where do you think this case goes from here? oh, i think i'm going to drop it off the go be convicted i. i think it is because once, if you, if you get to control what evidence goes in, you will always win and got funny enough, even though they by enemies die all it's all national security, its own national security. occasionally they say something is national security, which helps neg case and doesn't help my case. just got a fee. you know, they really are terrible. they is. are they going to get away with it?

i think what they're not going to get away with is 40 main job. 20 is because the public and people around the world are getting a really, is absolutely embarrassment for the western world corporate level warrant. kara was killed a 1000000 table and a widget torture and we were delighted and that there were so many things wrong. busy we described stem cells and you know, there's a couple of people that a guy and a child, you'd be one of them all to one of them and on. and no one who actually deal a really bad fix is guided or even had the korean slot. right. and what brought is going to got a job like it was all he's for that's. that's fine. i think public again. yeah. david and okay. your case is so well known. have you had the support of whistleblower organizations in australia or even abroad? have you, have you been able to get some help from them to get your sight of the story into

the public eye? where else as your course support come from? just every di, paypal i had had with the blows before. again, you would have found the same winery. so myself, it was a you don't really out of it. it's kind of a funny thing. you don't know what you know boban listed wasn't complete. but when you, when you made him, of course they're all really good people or they just like you. and that makes actually help my case quite a bit close than you would might have been the same. you can sing, will you out that they will paint you as you describe so yes, doable person baba, but he was a whistle blower. i should go the whistle on the banking system in australia and there was a royal commission in a row commission shouted at the banking system was just as he said, kindly, corrupt i was a whistleblower on me. i'm big, the money laundering and gambling guy, big white man said there were also some rules about how to avoid muddy monitoring

and it sina isn't, it cetera. and he said, went on following any of them, it's a joke and a guy and he's been proved to be right. ah. and i who together we are strong. there was another guy. he was a detective and he would guy what me had an impeccable record as a detective. and he said he expose the cover up of institute of sexual abuse in a lot of institutional hudson show group law. and he and he was pretty right. we had a role committee and very for a dock stuff and not just not just the original abuse for the fact that senior figures in the government makes mistaken messiah. we're actually actively involved in covering it up on that. it's pretty disturbing now, but together with straw it, you know, and that's raving. tell to people the average person's really, they're all making it up. they're all bad people and, and so totally. and there was another guy, but at cleary like scientists were dropped against him and he did this. i think he

exposed the fact and australian security services. i know that the, our c, i equivalent when bugged in other countries, offices not for any strategic military benefit, but to actually give the information to on astride and biased oil companies of your company could make the products and any any he got can beat it. you know that the supply got convicted in his line railey, and he was like, he can use their secret security services for commercial advantage. and he was why they're not joe. and i said, actually by say, the judge said your services and kill people a totally legally and the only person then we got to got child is probably support . now that's always the wrong. and eventually that the charges against the lawyer who helped bring that to lot were draws. but it shows um,

and that is something's not roy ashley, i sat astride. there were so many of us pointing things out and i do get more. but people escape. i mean, all, quite rightly the government's tactics working a lot of stories, journalists to me a lot of whistle blowing stories that show because people are scared. and so the government's tech is working in some ways. and that's what so important for me to keep a small i'm a 5 to made it look like i'm odd and not getting me down. i cannot ready to go into court, a broken man stagger and you know, looking sick. they would love that. i would love me to commit suicide out of oppression. ah, they, i would actually uncalled champagne balls if i committed so that would less love it by and that kind of people, they are so determined to bring change this salaries and they, you know, their lunch money the dying will guy will drive me and what i've got 2 teenaged, all that's you know they, they don't care whether a number that

a father that is how you know to speak of will they strike he not bureaucrats. ah, well, but i had to keep small and because i'm an example to on the i sort of will come off. yes, i don't yank little after that. that's an event. like when i was going to point you, she is there you, you didn't consider yourself to be a whistleblower. i said i said the same thing. you're the poster boy for whistleblowers. and so we want to wish you the very, very best of luck. david mcbride. thank you so much for joining us. that's all we have for you today. i'm john kerry aku and this is been the whistleblowers. 2 2 2 her. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 ah ah, every spring and summer,

the melting optics no reveals abandoned machinery, millions of rusty barrels and the detritus left by human expansion into this most inaccessible of temperature is. yes, i need to move. so take a look at the possibly canyons, an issue all in tears from clean arctic travel to heis island home to the biggest polar station on the french joseph land, archipelago a bosom or yeah, because it should. so image, it's going to be homeless. the nasa monthly and i'm but somebody with a some a stay on the or staff or somebody feel like a marriage from a serial 0 membership one year to year i've got a serial no boys to premier latrice, chico me at that of the optic pioneers main objective was to explore and conquer these harsh lands. they had no time to think about waste management now and legacy could remain for centuries. get my choice of so with

this going to plenty of got a deal to of issue ah, russian diplomacy has intensified its work in those areas where the processes of multiple charity are gaining strength. russia strengthens ties with partners in breaks and organizations. that multi polarity is apparently on the rise. that's according to bushes, foreign minister who made the comments during a speech of the nation state. as china expressions its support of iran in protecting its sovereignty and resisting unilateralism and pulling washington is encouraging beijing to take a different stance more similar to its own. and.