to new members sought to join the block, finland, and sweden, their accession would mark the 15th and 16th times. the alliance has expanded since the fall of the soviet union. but membership requires a unanimous vote by existing member states. as a now sir kia, stand in their way. so joining us to discuss why are kias refusing to go along with the program is geopolitical expert and editor at large and t. r t world, mister use of aram. now 1st use of can you address for us president are the ones exchange with the swedish p, where he said and quote, if you want nato accession, you have to extradite these terrorists. we gave them a list of $120.00 people without extra diving. these terrorists, it won't happen, and quote, now the swedes have repeatedly said they won't turn over anyone to turkey. or what

does that mean then for their nato application. ok, well, 1st of all, inside the memorandum of understanding that was signed at the madrid summit last year, nato's important gathering of all 30 member states. there was an agreement between lin suite and ed to get that open the door for the accession process to begin. now as part of that memorandum of understanding, part of it was speaking about extradition, that sweden will take a look at the extradition requests and according to their laws, and according to the evidence provided by to get extra, the necessary individuals that were at large to get now, the search president has requested the extra addition of $120.00 individuals, and it seemed that sweden is saying that none of these individuals will be extradited out without giving it a fair look, without even sitting down in swedish courts. looking at the evidence provided by

your telling to give that none of these individuals are going to be expedited, it definitely doesn't look like there's any due process being done. looking into the criminal activities of these individuals that your kids alleging that are basically corresponds with the crime of terrorism. so the turkish president wants to see these individuals extradited their individuals that have broken search laws . and church justice system has provided the necessary evidence to sweden, and this is one of the red lines for it to give regarding sweden nieto at nieto accession. now do all $120.00 of these individuals need to be extra aided. while in the past, the turkish brady, i said that if some of the conditions in the memorandum of understanding are met. but if sweden shows good wills and sincerity in the accession process,

he said that certain things could be overlooked. so i don't think that we should get hung up on the number 120, but i think we should look closely and observe the sincerity and the effort that sweetens putting into process these request. i think 0 out of 120. that's definitely not sincerity. that stuff is not going to win any type of favor or understanding with entre at all. so if it continues to go like this, there's already been tensions regarding the protests, up the p, k, k, u. s. e, o and 30 designate terror group and sweden. the kron burning was the icing on the cake. and if none of these terrorists are extradited, the ones that turkey is alleging our tires, if none of these are expedited to face, start is just the saw. i don't see any would shape way, shape or form out sweet and going to become a member of nato. alright, so not too much good faith effort shown on their part. so previously the finish and

the swedish have said they were a 2 for one offer that one would not go to nato without the other. now that turkey has made their requirements clear to the swedes. where does this leave the fins? well, unfortunately, it seems like finland, it's becoming collateral damage in the tension between sweden and to get out about 22 months ago i had an opportunity to interview the swedish prime minister. and i had actually asked him the question, do you feel a responsibility to stay with your own countries? nato progress, basically stalling or almost becoming stagnant. and it said that the same thing that it's a 2 for one deal that there's tremendous solidarity between both countries. in that day, i pad each other's backs for a very long time, but lazy. we're seeing the swedish nato accession process, have a 0 to slim chance of success at least this year. and we have recently the

finish. foreign minister say that finland needs to consider the possibility that sweden might not be approved any time in the near future by churches. so this was kind of a signal that the finished foreign ministry might be entertaining, a solo new accession bit. now, the day after that comment, the turkish turkish president said that i just sent a message regarding vinland that sweden would be shot. now, reading between the lines, this is basically saying that it would most likely be approving finland's bit, that if it came solo to turkish parliament, the turkish foreign minister, the very next day i reiterated with the turkish president sentence said that it's on just that finland needs to wait for its own nato membership because of sweden not being able to meet the conditions required in the memorandum of understanding

the day after that the finished foreign minister is the original comment about considering sweden not being able to become a native member. i kind of walk that back a little, but it also had a meeting with nato secretary general. yes, dalton berg, i believe thursday or friday. or i believe later this week, i should say, i don't know the exact day that the fish and sweetest prime ministers are going to be meeting. so that's going to be an important meeting. and as we can see that there is, there is a lot of dialogue behind the scenes. and i think it's going to come to a point where the things really need to consider their own self interest, their own national security. and they're probably going to have to walk this road along because it doesn't look like sweden's going to become a nato member. any thanks to now many in the west are throwing around the idea of kicking kia out of nato. so let's be clear about a couple of things here. there are only 14 articles in the nato charter. article 10

requires all sitting members to be unanimous in accession of a new member. article 13 states that only the member state can choose to exit the alliance. there is no article to boot a member but, but could this be a double edged sword where they can add a new article to support expulsion of a member state? i mean, does president or one worry about this? first of all, the will argue me the whole narrative, the whole, say, take 2 out of nato. it's ridiculous, it's a logical, it completely goes against the understanding the essence of what nato is, is not a possibility. and i think seeing that there is no mechanism to kick, to get outside of nato. i think that's the simplest dancer i think there's much better answer to better explain why it's not a possibility. now, 1st of all,

we have to look at what nato is. nato is a security lines. more importantly, it's more about the governance of nato. nato is a consensus decision making. apparatus is governed by consensus decision making. there is never a boat inside of nato because there is always consultations. consensus is reached and any nato resolution. any nato statement represents the collective will of all members, unless everyone agrees, nato does not release a statement. that's why there's no voting inside nato. there is vito's inside nato . there needs to be unanimous union and maybe inside of nato. but anything that you hear coming from a nato summit, a nato meeting means that every single member has agreed upon every single word in that statement. now, let's say for example, a mechanism is created to kick

a member outside of nato. first of all, a, we act it that mechanism. you would have to had nobody fetal, it, it would have to be a unanimous decision to create a mechanism to kick someone out. and then let's say that mechanism is created, let's say inside of that mechanism is a 2nd mechanism saying, the country that is going to be kicked out doesn't get a quote that would still required all $29.00 other states to unanimously agree. i'm taking that other member state out. so as you can see a, the probability, the possibility of all this happening is 0 to none. and if it does happen, the essence of nato being a consensus building. a consensus decision making alliance is defeated and nato ceases to be nato. it's now something different. one of the reasons why nato is so attractive as an alliance is that every member feels secure, that it's concerns regarding the decision in nato will become

part of that collective well, nobody can be overlooked when a statement is being made, nobody can be overlooked. when a decision is made being made, it's always unanimous. it's always collective. and that's the understanding that's the us is that it makes nato nate out. that's why you can't kick church outside of nato. that's why you can't get another country outsider made up. because everything always needs to be unanimous, that's why only someone can lead. because if someone wants sleep, that is their own free will to leave. and again, as i'm say, there being no mechanism is only the simplest answer. i believe this is a much more deeper understanding that shows what the essence of nato is and how the whole understanding of even being able to kick. so an act, even the process of trying to kick someone out, is the most ante natal thing the most anti nato thought. ah, washington. one can come up with, ah,

coming up next pressure mounts on nato members to arm ukraine. will president or to one cave into western pressure? we'll have more with use of aaron, when we return them out. we'll be right back. ah, ah ah. at the end of the 18th century britain began the illegal opium trade in china. these hard drug causing addiction and literally destroying the human body became a gold mine for business men from the foggy elvia. however,

the ruling chinese jing dynasty tried to resist and to stop the illegal trade, which provoked the wrath of the london business community. in 1840 without a declaration of war, the english fleet began to seize and plunder chinese coastal boards. the barley armed and morally drain chinese army, was unable to provide adequate resistance. the ging empire was forced to hand hong kong over to england and opened his sports for trading the lethal good in 1856, france and the united states have joined in the robbery of china. the anglo french troops defeated the chinese occupied beijing and committed an unprecedented robbery . destroyed and blundered the wealth of the un, ming, you and palace. the defeat of the jing dynasty in the do opium wars lead to the transformation of the celestial empire into a semi colony of european states and started it's age of humiliation. and the sale

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welcome back to the m o i manila chan. now many in the west are calling to hear the spoiler in sweden and finland joining nato. meanwhile, many turks are lashing out at swedish protesters who burned a koran outside of their embassy labeling. this hate speech and use of aram is back with us. so use of. currently us, lead nato is under pressure to present a united front against moscow. there was a stalemate among e, you nations, of who would supply what to kiev. washington broke that deadlock when president biden announced the u. s. would give key of 31 of these and one abrams tanks. so as a result, germany said they would send some leopard to a 6 tanks. they approved poland request to send care of some of their stock of leopards as well. france so far has tabled the idea of spending any main battle tanks to kiya. they haven't ruled it out, but so far it sounds unlikely,

based on the conditions that they've laid out, the checks flat out. no. where does turkey us stand on that can you foresee or to one caving into western pressure to further arm here? well, when we look at turkish foreign policy in turkey's policy towards both russia and ukraine since february 24th thirty's main policy is to continue the relationship as it was before the war ever started to get was supplying drones to ukraine before the war started. is continuing to supply drones during the war 2 days in doing business with russia before the war started bought at 400 is continuing its projects such as the nuclear power plant in korea and several other partnership saying gauge. and it's continuing them while the war, while the worst can ongoing. so as, as i said, it's continuous business as it,

there is no war is bilateral relationships with each country now supplying a tank supply of fighter jet to you create the piece that understanding that, that's a, that's something that to get was not supplying to ukraine before the war started, so that would, that would change the balance, i think change the understanding and change to gets position towards each of the actors. i think they'll can continue to sell drones, but i don't think that it would supply tanks. i don't think they would supply at 6 teams. i don't think that would supply at boards or any other fighter jets and it's weak because this is not military sale or not a military dialogue that it had with ukraine before the war started. it would show that this was done out of necessity of the war in that 2 days now taking a position now breaking the balance that is been holding. so i think that position

is something that the turkey expressing great the values. i think that he has seen much benefit whether it be the black sea green initiative being broken because of that position, the prisoner swap being broker at the lateral between who labor lab, rob and child, we show the non. yeah. and most likely future meetings that we're going to see as well. so i highly doubt that it will change its position on the type of weapons that it has supplied ukraine. i don't think that we'll see any made battle tanks or fighter jets being supplied from the turkey side. now, recently, there were protests outside of the turkish embassy and sweden. we saw a controversial burning of the koran. there. some even burnt effigies of president earth one. what is the sentiment that group is trying to project here? is it one that's anti turk is an anti muslim? is that just anger over nato?

i mean, how did you read these protests? first of all, i think what's being expressed very simply as hate. we're seeing a perfect storm up anti terror kick, ain't the turkish positions turco. phobia, zen oppo, b islamic phobia. these are all obstacles against nato. i. i always tell my sweetest counterparts that is not the one placing an obstacle in front of nato. it's the p g. a protest that are placing the obstacle in front of nato for swedish succession. and at the end of the day, what we hear the argument coming back is, this is freedom of expression. while, when we look at freedom of expression, i think the best way miss has is to say, what is being express what's being expressed when you're burning across what's being expressed, besides intolerance and hey, there are swedish laws, i believe it's chapter 16, article 8. if you have time google it, it's very complex and it took me

a very long time to sit down and just dance sweet and understanding of freedom of expression is very, very, actually, actually a very different than the american understanding. i see the american understanding of freedom of expression is much more logical, more implementable, more understanding towards minorities, especially religious or regarding race. but i see many times sweet saying why it's freedom of expression. there's nothing we can do about. of course, there's something you can do about it, someone's burning a holy book, and that is attending 2000000000 people across the and we're talking about 25 percent the global population. i think there's something i think there's some freedoms that some people can do without, and i think that's far from expressing anything of value it's expressing hate. this is how the turks understand it. there is most recent polls show a 92 percent negative sentiment. now towards sweden,

nato accession bid. i think that's a tremendous, overwhelming amount of the turkish population showing a negative sediment towards sweden succession. but this is up quite unprecedented because normally we would never see this many everyday turks care about another country's nato accession bit. but at the end of the day, 92 percent, that's an astounding number. turkish parliament to not ratify something that 92 percent of the public does not want the turkish president to not push something through parliament that 92 percent of his public does not want to get a democracy. 92 percent of people, they don't want it in any democracy that will not pass that will not pass and that will not pass in sweden that will not pass in any natal member countries. so i don't know why people are trying, expecting you to be able to push this through. for the record sweden has previously punish someone for miss gendering a trans person on line calling that hate speech. so by comparison,

it's hard not to agree that the koran burning isn't also a form of hate. how about examining the u. s. turkey relationship? a few years back, we saw some scuffles outside of the turkish embassy right here in washington. d. c . turkey has requested that the u. s. extra for tele glen. the u. s. has refused. we saw tensions or over turkey or buying russian made s 400 air defense systems or in syria where the u. s. was backing the y p g, which is the syrian arm of the p k. hey, which turkey has designated a terror organization? there seems to be some fundamental differences between this coupling. where do you see this relationship going in the next few years? right now, i think the relationships going to be on hold for a little while. and when i mean on old is, is that divided administration is waiting for the selections to be completed until

any series diplomacy is going to be undertaken. and the sad part is after turkish elections, whoever is in government, whoever is in power, will probably wait for the us elections to finish before they undertake some series diplomacy as well. so we're probably going to lose a year with both countries waiting and seeing who's going to be in power. come 202420232024. so we're going to lose a little time. but right now, the major issues as sixteen's 2 has been waiting a very long time for a sale that should normally be a formality between the united states in any major nato member country. we're seeing a lot of pressure inside congress holding up this deal. frankly, i don't think it's a do or die sale for to get it. turkey doesn't get the 16th. it's probably a blessing in disguise. i think there's very good other options that to take a look at. i think that you should begin looking at your biter typhoon talking more

to the brits. there's a couple other options down on the market as well. she is also developing its own fighter aircraft that's going to be ready towards the end of this decade. so it's going to need a stop gap for its aging air bleed. now, she is made some modernization kits for at 16, so it can modernize some of its up aging fleet. so it's not the end of the world if it happen is great. if it doesn't happen, it's just another nail in the copy of the u. s. relationship. it's the relationship that she wants to save. i think the united states see the value in the relationship still regardless. but these flash points, they're just getting more frequent. they're getting bigger and frank be right now we need to see cooler heads prevail in the u. s. turkey front. i don't know how that's going to happen. i don't know how these flash points are going to be solved because many of them are very engraved, ending american support for the y p g really require

a complete overhaul of us engagement in syria, which is so late in the game. i don't know how they're going to do it. they just fell into a complete y p g swap right now. i don't even think the americans know their strategy right now in syria. i think if you ask 10 american officials about what their and game isn't, sir, i think you'd probably get 10 different answers because they don't know jazz are very specific and, and game and syria. it's creating a 30 mile. but presuming they're 25 mile upper zone, that's through to has a very specific strategy on what it wants to do in the region as well. but again, is america shifting to the pacific? is it going to continue the same level of engagement in the middle east? we're seeing different statements, different actions. we're seeing a lot of double standards against to again, as long as narratives are prevailing in congress without some type of strategic direction. regarding the, i don't think the relationships going to get better anytime soon. use of aram.

appreciate your time and analysis. thank you so much for that. and that's going to do it for this weeks episode of modus operandi the show that digs deep into foreign policy. i'm your host manella chan. thank you for tuning in. we'll see you again next week to figure out the m. o. ah ah ah, in who needs to come to the russians state little never. i've tied as i'm phoning osland stevens. i'm not getting calls all set up for a group in the 55 when. okay, so mine is 2000 speedy. when else with we will ban in the european union, the kremlin. yup, machine. the state aunt,

rush up to date and support r. t spoof mckibben our video agency roughly all brand on youtube. and it said with a wood and pulling it up with them. would we give that to research? celia was this because they get to squint nikia tibia the cut through in new you would you oh for you. quotation there waiting for me to change that. sure. thoughtful and you should have some global valuable to put the law for sheila for wishing i cim alamahood for the world was more emotional. i'm with bush not to not being

a mom. they're glad of. giblin you what they continue yet. i'm just idea. i use one to select the lowest load i would need someone to of the ripper. carson brought a shirt finish. this is just those are for did you hear i'm is national. wouldn't it comes when did on friday, the material ordering a shirt and sherman. yes. another there was also to put it in action this ah, with the 1st time in history and the entire country's culture has been canceled to the very modern weapon council culture. really desert wonderful language. sheffield my last we thought, well, you can't just sit in the loop with the phrase now, particularly refers to counseling russian culture yet i know what she creates

a few orders that i get to when you're miles for cure, which will be all there is chill out of it so that the most of the separate random eat them like what rushes created over the past 1500 years is now question. partially condemned, reviled and reject it to sort of like a will of bell. there's a lot closer on a whole college. thank you, said a little short list. joining total condemnation, gross daily, and now includes, does de escalate to cascade and shostakovich get that i need to you all left, but yes, she says that what that done, will you do obama lee? you're not going to do that. a little bit more. ah,

a, i really thought that we were gonna die before i called all the way right. other than i hid behind on years before i was even born. and this has happened again and again and again and again. and again. because people continue to stick with the system, i had only one of them came home. basically, we want to make sure that certain weapons that are just too dangerous or regular civilian should be in the hands of those people who are and say that i take no way

to start really ah, ah, american some joe biden, for prioritizing weapons shipments to ukraine. testing problems on the front end portion of the keys, if failing could deal with a string to poke, say, chemical, accidental across the country. i honestly feel that the palestine was the police department, the fire department, all the 1st responders. they don't have the answers to get this because i don't think they know they're not getting. the straight answers either. go recovers 101 russian prison or from ukrainian captivity of the country's defense ministry reports they were in to way the danger. also this out germany must constantly be reminded of.