or, you know, yeah, unfortunately, i think in order for more people to use things you are going to be the support of governments and governments are going to need to have more oversight as how these transactions, the car. okay. it's a big discussion, isn't in the future going to work. chris. other countries, are they planning similar? is russia to the oven guard of this? are they climbing in the box or somebody else, piggybacking well yeah. so rushes pretty far ahead. the fact that they said they were implementing how the china was the 1st move back in april 2021 china, which is around the same time processing. april 2023 april 2021. china conducted what they called best public pilots. and now in china, the digital women b is used quite widely across china. so it's not the 1st, but it's definitely a bright move. and also the bank of japan and out today that they're also going to launch the digital chinese one. at the same time the rosters. so i think we're probably going to see a whole vast array of countries moving in this direction. what's the prospects just finally on the of attack? you know because tasha thought off many competitors before. is this going to make

inroads into what people actually pay for? go into the pockets in the shops and stuff in the near future. do that. yeah, honestly, you know, i don't think in the near future. i think we're still very early days. like you said. so many people have come up with ways to try and remove cash from economies, which others catch. it's still something passes still king, if you like. and also, you know, there's a number of governments. i think russia may be the 1st one. i mean, here we live in moscow, i'd say it's very easy to pay a bank. it's very, very quick. so maybe in russia, they might be the 1st place to move towards a cashless society that so to speak. but i think in general, for example, the u. s would really have to get rid of cash because we will know that they use the cash, the dollar in order to conduct all sorts of the various activities. ok, if they got rid of it, they wouldn't be able to do that anymore. greg chris, thanks very much. chris am's tech expert. many thanks. thanks a lot. all right, next retired us are forced. the tenant colonel occurring petoskey is among the guest on cross delving into what appears to be a stuttering collective western stance on ukraine. it's a fiery chub,

it's right ahead, stay close. ah ah ah

ah ah ah ah ah ah, a ah, at this hour american and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm iraq, to free its people. and to defend the world from grapevine.

we will bring to the food in medicine and supplies and fleet with ah ah hello and welcome to cross sac. were all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle. the west presentation of the ukraine conflict is always been muddled and confusing

. remember the phrase, as long as it takes that is not a strategic goal. now we're presented with as long as it takes, pertains to the amount of conflict. it doesn't pertain the amount of assistance. do you understand what that means? ah, cross talking, changing narratives. i'm joined by my guess. karen felt golf, ski and mount jackson, she's retired, united states air force, lieutenant colonel, having served both an essay and the office of secretary events in washington. we have on 3 months the on off. he is a writer, as well as a military and political analysts, and in berlin we have the cavort. i'll marcial, he is founder of seriana analysis or across our rules, and that means he can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciate, i'm a, let me go to you. i mean, i already mentioned it in the introduction. so tell me, i mean, i know english isn't your 1st language here, but maybe you have special powers that i don't, as long as it takes pertains to the amount of conflict that doesn't pertain the

amount of assistance. does that, does that make any sense to you with a native speaker of english doesn't make any sense to me at all? go ahead, andre. yeah, it doesn't make any sense for me any point of view from strategic, operational or logistical for that matter. so it's basically a political statement designed for the internal consumption assumption in later and in the united states. it has no descript followers whatsoever. and will all, are usually it goes with the powers that be especially when you look at the letters, there's not most all makes sense. i don't care. and if i got to you amount, jackson, it's very interesting to me. we went from as long as it takes nothing about ukraine without ukraine, ukraine. it becomes completely dependent economically and militarily on the united states. but ukraine has to decide its own terms and conditions and sit down with

negotiations. i mean, you can go at this at any kind of trajectory you want it all, it's very, very confusing. now, reality in the ground is made it that way, but their, their policy adjustments don't keep up with reality, but is the problem and the public is picking up on it as well. karen? yes, certainly. i think the amount of information in it around the world available about what's really happening in ukraine and also why why these things are happening is getting out there. and they can't even keep it away from the limited interest in limited li, interested americans who aren't really that interested except that we have, you know, a terrible budget deficit. and americans are suffering economically and they see this money flowing into ukraine. so they're starting to ask and that information now is widely available to people that are interested. they had a very difficult time controlling the narrative here it said controlling the narrative of arc. and let me go to you in berlin. i mean i,

we had the revelation from seymour hersh about the destruction of the north stream pipelines. what has been the reaction of the german political elite in the media? because apparently i didn't know this. sy, hersh is this crazy old man. that's all he is. i thought he was one of the greatest living journalists of our time. what's the german response? the german officer respond is that seem a hers is a blogger, is not a journalist, is, is not an investigative journalist, isn't blogger, sitting behind his laptop and just striving some you lose well with joseph morale, just the blogger, as well. i mean, we're all bloggers in david in the eyes and anything outside of the ocean, not at the hitting german, is abashed, is smeared, and he has been downgraded, and the media has a very strong influence over to public opinion in germany. and they're able to project is hija, money. intellectual had jim went over to people, right. the only,

in my opinion, 2 political parties in germany that spoke about the seymour hersh article is the left wing party, the linker, and the if theater i think parties arrest the for other political parties. and especially the triple tickled parties who form the coalition. david, the coast, the article of seymour hersh because there is a war of narratives, right? this is also information work. so at the beginning, few 1st few weeks, 2 months, 3 months, probably one year. they can manipulate the people. but after one year it's very difficult for the really formation not to be so faced and for the people to be educated about the and now you can see even germans, they're speaking very quietly with each other because they are afraid to speak publicly and loud. in their surrounding about these cases and whether or not germany should continue and it's policy towards ukraine and to be embedded with the united states in disregard. so at the beginning, it might open up the vast majority of organ supportive of your brain, but the support is now diminishing because the people can carry also the burden

economically on their shoulder. right? exactly, and against the, their own self interest here, you know, onto the biggest problem and all of this. and you, and i've talked about this before, is the framing of this is good versus evil. i mean, when you have that kind of framing, it can make you feel good, particularly if it doesn't impact you. ok. just virtue signaling, but it is covered. just told us here. now the impact is beginning to felt. you know, the virtue signaling kind of fades away here and when you do, when you frame it is good versus evil, context doesn't matter. and geopolitical realities don't matter. and that's why this narrative is fumbling. it's been, it's been fumbling from the very, from the get go, go ahead. andre. are in the last a week or 2. we have a dramatic change in the wood, in narrative, across the mainstream media in that state for example. and you can also note, is there a dis op form transfer as for example, and if there was

a dramatic change and i would have wall street journal new york, i'm sure meeting that yeah. garage. and despite the fact losing of 1000000 groups, are they still on offensive begin grounding, digging their 1000 villages. and it was like this which was relieved and it has a very rational explanation to it. yeah. and you can all lie only for so long before they're out. it begins to say in, especially in the board on the world when there is still there are still many alternative sources of information and people who have their own a very good demand. very interesting job. politics and everybody begin to, well, you know, all these of those are blogger school count, walk life cycle, and then they begin boss questions let alone about professional school can point

out immediately. his scared their mood of desperation really at the ball in their bout way. and the i spoke about it, yes, there will begin their article. you have to take a look at their latest e. sure. all the so called our intellectual magazine such as the foreign affairs, which is their rag old, their neil, we've got on here and you'll get a bull article bar article there. and you assume you're out there. how desperate day and what not on sunday that the point is here. you're out. you're absolutely right. yeah. let me go to karen right now. i mean from the get go. this has been an elite project. ok. that's what it's all about. and i'm glad that on that i brought up foreign affairs. this has nothing to do with ukraine. it's about american hegemony. it's about taking russia out 1st to focus their attention on china. that's always what it's always been. and oh, by the way, make sure germany and russia don't have any kind of economic relationship,

because that's what major germany prospers. it would make germany think twice about how it feels about ukraine and the united states. if this is only an elite project that has been from that way since the start, karen, go ahead. that's, that's absolutely true. and if you can see it that way, we can understand more about about how things have unfolded. but, you know, it occurs to me that you know the lensky, a former comedian, and he's been very public with all of his, you know, he is ukraine for 2 americans who know nothing about ukraine. zelinski is all that we know. and increasingly, he is becoming more of a comedian and i think americans are not really warming to him as much as he might think. and certainly not as much as congress is. i know the democratic congress in particular, you know, he received a, you know, he addressed the congress, you know, let not too long ago, and they were standing ovation. i am edlio craney and flag have you ever seen a foreign flag on the well the congress to go to her and to know that?

yeah, i mean it's, it's crazy, but i think the americans who see this and of course, you know, we're, we're a very short attention span american slip channels. we stream our news or whatever . we don't even watch news, but when we see zalinski, he is not someone who inspires americans. i have no idea. he inspires ukrainians, but he does not inspire americans in the things that he gets publicity for here often is that his lack of respect, his, you know, he, he dresses is if you would every one parent, he's a panhandler, that's what he is. give me he's an ungrateful panhandle, a next lower sky. i'm a suggestion of that. he's a trend user. he may not be, but he certainly appears to me. i think we now are okay. okay, karen, i don't want to get in that. i don't want to go down that path. let me just say to you, in our audience, there was a lot of lot known about zelinski in ukraine and in russia before he got the

headline. so i'll leave it at that. okay. okay. cuz i can let me go to you. i would like to jump in. i don't have champion, please do go ahead de style of addressing from the ukrainian side to the wish. and we're just very disrespected, for example, zelinski demands ukraine, demands the former ambassador of ukraine in gym, and he was a worshipper bandito and he was a yeah, polishing bonded i in the in the gym and media. he demands the gym and site for san submarines. now, for your client, he demands gemini to sent f 16 to ukraine. they're not even addressing their of so called allies in a respectful way. therefore, i think even among the popular base here in germany, the people are questioning whether they should really deliver this type of weapon, sir, to ukraine and especially that the information is so facing. now the tools of social media platforms that short, clearly the neo nazi seem in ukraine, right? so imagine there are photographers toward the f, b for the reuters and the rest. they are really suffering to publish

a photo where debbie's, no swastika or debbie's and your nazi logos in to put those they are doing any they have a lot of work in their hands to hide this photos. and despite that, today, the 8th be posted to view as part of the video in which we can see one of the screenshots, one of the officers, he's wearing an isis flag on his, her shoulder. it's crazy, i o'clock i, i pull my, what little hair i have out when i try to explain this to people. they just say it's propaganda. it's not true. that's what we're facing here. folks. i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break, and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on changing narrative stake with our team. ah

ah ah, welcome back across stock were all things are considered on peter bell to remind you were discussing changing narratives. ah okay, let's go back to andre in washington state. i'm sorry i, you probably know as well as you probably feel the same way i do in watching what's been going on in ukraine, not since to being beginning of last year, but all the way back to 2014. and you know what? i'm getting at here. what i find really frustrating is the lack of context. there's so little context. if i say to a, when i'm question, you know where you peter,

or why are you so passionate about this? and i always say, because this was inevitable, considering the, the west ignored the, the, the antecedents of how we got here the minsk accords. this whole problem that the, the whole, the entire push to put ukraine into nato and all of this. and you shape, you show them what this is, what cia director william burns had to say. i can, i can go on for hours and hours and they just their eyes just glass over because they've never given the context of this. the a, remember, unprovoked, unprovoked, unprovoked? this was the most provoked war in modern history. andre. yeah. deco x, the zation of the whole affair is the main map of the actual and shaping narrative. and when you're on the stand off, they don't think they are good at, and i will say the necessary they're good at it either about the only thing they

can do actually in any practical terms is that the are sending off. and then there are to, basically when you look at the american, the western politics. it is primarily it's a narrative. i'm wondering. it is a little for optical things which applicable to situation and rule. and they won't issue or supplying your brain with arms and money. you're going to see yourself, how foolish this old people themselves, who, who are the american longest and decision makers, especially within the beltway, they have no clue what they're dealing with. they have no clue what they have the week. because they don't have, i'm going down to south i go, i don't know, oregon physical and intellectual how to learn how to program, to handle information and then what, what comes down to them. they have the block again, they know have one b, c,

d o m, and don't think they know is know how to go to you. the whole and guns and purposes, when you look at this, you will american generals who domain names, mainstream media, b at general key and general contract there, whatever those think things on people who are view senior, yours they're, they're elected on their own. was that it was one or more for you? well, andre, answering the generals. you just mentioned what, what can what success can they personally point to? they can't. yeah. karen, karen? i mean, i wouldn't, i thought was really painful me for me. i mean, i've, i'm blacklisted, i can't go to ukraine for obvious reasons, but i before i, before 2014 and a little bit after i went there many times. okay. and what really pisses painful for me is that i've mentioned this before on this program, is it? the more the west helps ukraine, the smaller it gets geographically and it's population not to speak of g d p. and

these other things here. i mean, it's a failed state and who wants a failed state? you have all this arms flowing in there. no one really knows what to go except for the people that are commandeering it. they know where it's going here. i mean, you've, you worked in the military and i'm not asking you to speak for the military. but i mean, that the level of cynicism here it's, it's grotesque. karen, and i think actually within even the military today, not the spokespeople and not the retired generals like betray us, but in the military today, i think they're extremely aware of the stupidity and insanity of, of the u. s. policy here. and the reason i say that is, we know this is about russia, this is about u. s. versus russia to contain control, destroy russia in some way. we can russia, we have, we have the rand documents to show that that's the objective. but the military understands, well, the u. s. military today knows,

well that they can't take on russia. we, a nato understands the nato officers understand they cannot take on russia. so this, this is kind of a fantasy that they're all kind of, you know, the emperor has no clothes and everyone is notting o body, so beautifully, so powerful, you know, but i think they understand the reality. but the problem for me is the concern that i haven't, i think people should have is that because this is an emotional, ideological kind of conflict on the american side and among nato and great britain and, and even ukraine. that winning a war may not be. well, winning a worse winning the war on their site. that's not possible, but damaging russia causing the amount of chaos that we don't even want to talk about. obviously, chemical nuclear, major destruction of human beings of human life. that is still possible for us, nato and ukraine. less so ukraine, probably the u. s. in nato, to,

to conduct an operation like that to cause gross damage and then say, well, we're done, we're done, we, we've hurt. and this is, this is a desperate move. like you said, the desperation that we see in the western media mouthpiece is foreign. foreign affairs, for example, supposed to be the intellectual guy, the very desperate and desperation in a dying empire. and we, the united states are that dying empire. that's not a good thing. it's dangerous and so, you know, kind of to keep our fingers crossed a little bit. yeah. makes it that the problem is the, the part of the problem is here, is it in, i've talked about this here for almost a solid year. every single program is on this topic. there's no learning curve here, and that's what we're all terrified of. ok, b, and because it's being become so emotional, clark, and, and, and berlin. i want to ask you a very simple question and i'm not saying you represent the german people, but what is germany getting out of this? ok, i mean, you're industrial,

as your industrial base is being severely damaged. okay. the, the wonderful success of postwar germany was it's prosperity. ok. that is being challenged right now. and it's, and all the talk about ukrainian sovereignty. what is the u. s. done to german sovereignty? go head in berlin. peter, the biggest loser of this war will be ukraine. and the 2nd biggest loser of this, or will be germany and germany will be she severely but in the economy or in an economic sector. and i, you know, when i make means, we all know that the nato's goal in germany. so the industrialized country, we all know that the goal is to cut the economic integration between the russian at the german side because a good relations between germany and russia means that is stronger asia and this people of the region, they will never needs nato again. so the goal is to weaken germany, to make it dependent on the united states. security was an economic wise,

and unfortunately they are politicians here in germany and they, they follow the american, the, it's, i the update the gym as didn't want to send video of her thanks. but you know, how much pressure there was on the gym and a government on olaf shows him, said, i'm not saying i'm not giving him a like a justification. but there was a huge pressure from the media, from the political scene, and from the elliots here in germany, arnold of shows to sent this year for thanks. and i suspect that in a few years, gemini will be weakened into extend that they will depend only on their agricultural sector and they will import the guys something nice. this 3 times higher g d o fisher price when they, when they used to buy from russia and therefore the industry was the mice. yep. it came to lawrence, we had on away from providing or you know, history as well as i do, i, it, some of our viewers may know that, you know, at, towards the end of the 2nd world war, the, that was the morgenthau plan to dnd gesture class he's gentlemen who would have thought they were going to implemented in 2023. i to amazing. okay. andre,

how does nato equate himself itself in this conflict right now? i think it's, it's very existence is in play right now because it was never designed to 5. i fight appear conventional conflict. they didn't have a plan b, as you pointed out here, what cents worth, i mean it, it was, i don't what i was going up. it was a supper club. okay. do you have to join? you're never going to have to fight. you could have the american umbrella, and this is the, the biggest gross miscalculation ears because russia said, you know, we will find of nato expansion intolerable, and we will react, and they did. andre, future of nato. are there the ball back door? when you want the sandbar and saw what the russian ultimate on which we were level and we're all remember, one of the key points or this all to make. while it was basically we spoke demands

are all back in the waters of 990. so i would board my brand on all the signs up around rush be given. who stated that would all be well evolved european. pardon me, so need or me, it's lovely to pull the paper, dietary laundry. it is through. it will not be able to come back a large combined arms operation design, defeat the fear irrational, which is a p r. in fact, sometimes in the field says about the peer a level of care and they'll get back to me if there is, if there's ration there, they august and the existence of nato, which for the last 30 years, whatever they want to say was in the search over newsroom, and they will find enough enemy, they have the animal. now,

what's wrong with the fact that they are said these are all the app, right? so just be point to this daycare, not quite this. and this desire to at back you can capture it and do something better correctly. mistake already there, where it just made that space here and we can see already how bold european union is beginning to show us, correct? maybe we'll wall. so let me give the latin last 50 seconds to karen. karen, i have a prediction here. russia will rail on the battlefield. it will dictated terms, but you know what western leads and their pliant media will say, well, they didn't make it to the english channel. we won. okay, that's what they're going to do. that's what they're going to do. the 40 seconds, go ahead. well, i think, i think that given we have an election, a presidential election cycle and starting in 2024,

we have elections in 2024 biden. says he wants to run again, that means the bite and team blinking and all these neocons, they need a victory, so they will create one and they will call it one. and i think your proposal there is fine. they didn't make it to the english channel. so we want this whole thing is about narrative management. i think that they are frustrated in d. c right now because they are trying to figure out how to make it work, how to say what they think needs to be said. the problem is we sacrificed all the people, the people, the human beings in ukraine. yeah. the german economy, reputation of nato never will be. i would even say the reputation of the west in the eyes of the global majority of the global south that time. so one of the big question, that's all the time we have, fascinating discussion, i want to thank my guess in berlin, mount jackson and in washington state. and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at ortiz, see you next time. remember crossed articles ah,

ah ah, headline stories that need so on vale of plums to create a fleet of spice satellites, to boost of blocks, military missions. brushes, responded stating, is used in lawful targets if the probes are used to help ukraine on the battlefield . also has this corporate meeting in the united states. still telling the story of you great. they started from invasion. they don't know why they were invaded. they don't know that the ukrainian government was bombing those people for each 3 years and slaughtering them. they don't know that they're in band with nazis, rural nazis and people have no idea that that is what happened right now in the american political.