sama, it didn't happen, a issues that turkey has res. so it's been the, you know, dragging on and they can't really let this drag on so much longer. so they're going to get finland then and then say, this is a wonderful, great moment. you know, nato expansion continues and we hope that sweden will go in down the road. and that's what i hope that once again gets through the election. then he'll change is positional sweden or in the nato is we're hoping above all, everyone will be defeated in the next election and then whatever succeeds him will basically toss aside the objections of sweden's membership. but i think they're going to join separately now with the one year anniversary of rushes, military operation. and you can dumbass occurring this week. cross talk has been looking back on the past 12 months. that's how the conflict shit, the reach in the wider world. well, catch peter on guess right ahead on that to stick

with ah, [000:00:00;00] ah hello and welcome to cross top. were all things were considered. i'm peter labelle,

one year ago. not one person could have predicted the course of the conflict in ukraine. but here we are on this edition of the program. we reflect on the last 12 months. how, how's the conflict changed? russia, ukraine, the west, and indeed the world. ah, discuss these issues any more. i'm joined by my guess, george samuel in budapest. he's a podcast or the guy which can be found on youtube and locals, and here in moscow, cross to dmitri bob, she's a political analyst and editor. it was me, internet media project, cor, gentleman cross talk roles and the fact that means you can jump anytime you want. and i would appreciate it. right, george, you know, reflecting upon the last 12 months, it's a big endeavor for a program that is short as ours. so i'll start out 1st. i think that, you know, the biggest thing that is, that i become aware of is just how anti russia the west is,

because this is very little, have very little to do about ukraine. you have michael mcfall. you have timothy timothy schneider. you know, they let them ask drop, you know, this is about the breakup of russia regime change the usual playbook that we've seen over the last 30 years. and they're not even hiding it anymore. and that's going to have a very big impact on how this conflict is eventually resolved. your thoughts, though, that's a very interesting take and it has been stunning on the hostility, the outright hostility, in much of the western world to ward russia. just because, you know, we, we would always known about a latent hostility. and we known about this un, from the time of the 19th century and russian song. but it'll be soon by the cold war. that way, the only issue is communism is when, you know, we, we, we don't,

you know, we love the russian people absolutely. door, russian culture, awesome music, russian, literature painting. love it all. we just hate the communists. i mean, and you know, this terrible things of the communist, another subjugated eastern europe and so on. and suddenly all that has just dropped away. and you know, it becomes very hard to understand. what is it that you have so much about russia? other than that, you somehow see them as the other, as a, somehow this, it's a, it's a culture and it's a civilization alien to you. and it is quite remarkable, the extent to which the racism is a sanction. as long as you know, you'll be doing this about russia as long as it's russia, that is to become dam,

is to feel absolutely alien. i mean, whenever you pick up, any media outlets or something about russian spies, russian interference and it could continue, continue generation office to look at the water. everything russian. yeah it's, it's almost kind of like a few p on the end of the end of history. thing is what's, what's the russians are taken out then? you know, things the world will be a better, brighter place. it's a, it's like the grand solution you're russian. we're talking about your country here . i mean, what, what is it? what's your major take away because you know, that was mine also. i think about media. how that is a very controlled message like we've never seen before. we'll talk about that. your thoughts, my friend. i agree with george, you over russia as other is very important. i will call it they could teacher and you know, the other who helps you in this case,

the west or construct your role. basically i you identity. you know that the syllogism is very simple. he is back, i am not healed. that means i'm right. and the 5, the russians look like the west, they want to say is no russian repeats. they look away. it makes the even world pleasant because i'm different. lot in the color of my skin, although the color of my care, i'm different because of my family. you know, this is what they're doing and the stony nash this laugh to repeat. they say, oak rogers look like you, but don't get to see and ask us. we will tell you how these people are different. so of course, this is rachel man, the one of their most interesting elements. all the strategy that has been our food

in for the whole year, how the western out to liberalism and that, you know, kind of shifts in these elements, east european mesh, the vital and how it is in the west is trying to pull this outer americanism service you know, using the hatred of your graham nationalist, was russia using pedro or oh, to connect to with russia. but let me quote one of your recent talks with gorge. i love the thought of gorge. great bolus remain great bowers, precisely because they're wise enough not to fight other grade because of that that's less than your glow. and that's, that's undermines your mind. you can do so talking about our thermal will this ok. it is not clear how the people are these clear the, the west will get out of this week and, you know,

the united states will be weaker than it was before the me know, you're at the, me, you're absolutely right. but george, that's not what the narrative will be. i mean, i think you and i have talked about this before. if the conflict were to be settled right now with the facts on the ground right now, it's a, it's a victory. they didn't make it to the english channel. we. why is that? that is a reflection of just how propagandized this entire endeavor has been. there is absolutely no descent. i mean, you can really think cancel culture will come after you with a vengeance. george? yes. and that's what i was thinking about. the program is just how spread the nato propaganda system is. have you ever, ever since 2008, every single nato meeting has come? you come to the conclusion that ukraine will be

a member of nato. every single one of your grade will be a member of nato. and then what does a friend sergeant schultz say a last year just because of the russia, so special military operations? nobody seriously talking about new grade being a member late. you said it, you said it every single year, your grade will be in the georgia. and on top of that, after the 2014, my don qu what it nato do. started turning ukraine into a garrison, stayed with one purpose, is to attack and quote, unquote liberate the don bass, which would weaken russia. ok, so you know, that's nothing to do with it. exactly. and we have a meeting again, which is still going on with them unit security conference, and there is a stolen but once again, as he is on many occasions,

we have been in ukraine since 2014 helping calming training ukrainians. well then, how can you go on say, on provoked attack, that's what you've been doing. you will be arming and ukrainians. wow. go for a century mount in an offensive and ending the war in the don't bass. it's the one thing that this is not, is a vote and they keep saying this and it's like, you know, again, you know, what russia is and just what they do has sent them. so you know, you know, with on a former chance of germany or shrinking all the people who are in mens 420142015. they said we never took when seriously basically there was a, we were just buying time. you know, when we can mounted offensive and take a re take this on, but what you line all easy is you a line and you have

a goal to say that this was unprovoked, this is an unjustified war. you know, given glad to george brought up the munich security conference. it's an annual event in 2007 vladimir putin basically put down russia's marker and has not moved away from it since. but isn't it interesting, george, they call it a security conference, but they don't talk about security because if they did, it would be indivisible. and that's again over the last 12 months. that the fact that the, the west is not to talk seriously about security also will have an impact on how this conflict is resolved. if they had changed track, it would impact the outcome in a different way. and i'm absolutely for talking about security and peace. the west doesn't talk about either a matter of either against both demon. well, it certainly propaganda on for a sec. how can you talk about security when you have zelinski addressing the start of the conference with classical music. but you know, the bad ground, you know,

showing propaganda, you know, just and the, comparing himself, david and then saying that, we're all deb, it's here and you know, with the stomach, you are there, you know, i'm, america was a, this is all stupid. you know, it's not serious. the point about wanting to see that you kind of try to be some get possible, you know, you will take away emotions. what, talking about security. but this form was all about and all very shortly, you know, provoke emotions from, from mr. phillips, so that's absolutely true. i be with george. how can you quote them both the gresh, just look at the events that preceded the decision announcement on 24th of february on the 17th. we don't buy has to be evacuated, you know, because there are so that the barrage or bartman is so, you know,

there you graham force us our mass and all the board that these was a real army. i mean, look at what happened during these months. they're still holding on hold, you know, they're, they're still bombarding us. this was a powerful army which will, which will have destroyed the grounds in the metro. ours, you know, russian. i mean, you don't be able to spell, but even the russian army will be just, you know, 2 or 3 hours after the struggle. we have to also point out here or reaffirm that this was a nato fortify ukrainian military. okay. with the advisor, with enormous amounts of munitions, obviously financing it intelligence. but george may just not to co ballinger in the big city again. if these people and munich were serious, they would talk about security. and when you talk about security, then that's the resolution. maybe every single party involved would not be happy

with the outcome ultimately, but they all could live together and that should be the aim george. yes, exactly. and this really is a wall that should never have happened. i mean, we have had year after year in which the russians you put in the low grow have continually warned that we have to resolve this problem. this minsky, after making a apply pressure against your client, if we have to implement mence and our patience is not endless. i mean, they said this over and over again, and then goes in december when the future submitted. those draw security, treat it back on the basis negotiations or was it only the basis to end the conflict? jordan, mark my words, we're going to go full circle and seen what is all happened in between time. should them never happen? you're gen when i have to jump in here, we have to go to a hard break. and after that hard break,

we'll continue our discussion on some really stay with our team. ah ah ah, welcome back to price stock where all things are considered on peter bell. this is the home addition to remind you. we're discussing some real news. the let's go back to hearing was kind of broadening a little bit here. one of the, one of the biggest changes we've seen in the last 12 month is the complete capture of yours by the americans with the atlanta, according to see more harris, the destruction of the north stream pipelines. and then we've also seen and very important. and i don't think it has given enough traction and in western capital.

and western media is the reaction of the global south. they're not on board for this western assault, collective western assault on russia. they're not on board. they're not interested in metaphor. just the opposite. rushes appealing to them, reaching out to them and trade is increasing. huge changes in trading patterns right now, and that's only going to continue even if the conflict were the end today. so the capture of europe and the reaction of the global. so demon. well, just some figures the export, so russian oil to india, jump for the stem last year, experts basically from 0. everybody from 0. yeah. well now it's a substantial amount crush. sell the same story with china. so the conflict has changed. the going to let me show you, i'm sure you're right, but i think that capture or like i'm sure you're by the states that you happen. not

so much. you cannot make less ideologically, basically just the contrast to its former chairman. what issues are, you know, the german diplomat, he said, and they need to go to speak megs in the fall, and we only need a quote to stop russian troops. i don't you now get unit and the main mistake that we made during the mind. yes. and that was us, we underestimated rushes be real ambitions. so basically the man, i mean, he was responsible issue that was responsible mark my watch, wasn't them used to be much. he was responsible for the dialogue between kia and the rebel republics. he did a wonderful job, not a single meeting, lot a single phone call to the place and all this man has been trading the munich security conference. and now he's given the whys. and merkle is on the re retreat. you know, she,

she has meet them that she actually was alliance in 1015. they didn't want a real piece. they wanted to get out of why was she is troops, software to defeat, basically defeat them. so the problem with europe is that it is losing economically, i mean, the russian brain i make and human sacrifices. europe is the big rules or you can normal. and this is not me saying that this is mona, towards the french at last. gave a very easy to, you know, if you got role and also thought said that there were 2 major surprises during this 1st, almost everyone expect the russian army to defeat the ukrainian army. quickly underestimate them are all american investment and british investment in that ukraine and how

much they they had already. we agree before 2022. and the 2nd surprise was the fact that you want me to sustain the ball. sanctions did not destroy russia, were most starving that it was the 2nd major surprise band and the big lose the euro because the price is jump. i mean, the european industry is becoming irrelevant because they pay so much for, for the production of their products. so basically, you know, increase there is a huge increase in american negatives. i mean, look after the world war 2, the united states were ready to limit their ambitions to preserve western europe from started to preserve south korea from north korea from a devastating artillery strike. now the stage is basically that we don't care why our expensive gas stay with our garage and gas, destroy your economy, you know,

make a black hole out of russia. don't care. the same story with, with the far east, you know, fight and we don't care about japan was by trying to south korea my been, if you know, george, how do you explain that? i mean, it is ideological and again, you and i talk on a regular basis about a lead capture because i can't understand the logic, at least in a formal sense, is that it's all about ukraine sovereignty. when europe, over the last year is erased its own economic sovereignty almost completely, george. this is very interesting. it is a demon said, a complete, illogical capture because there was once a, not that long ago, a distinctively european outlook on international affairs, on a variety of issues. but in most particular, in relation to the soviet union, during the cold war, the europeans, different from the united states. yes. and one members of nato,

but they said it doesn't make sense to us. and it's, it's gone and our national interest to pursue an aggressive policy toward the soviet union. we, as you know, germany said it doesn't, you know, it damages our relations with the east and france again, you know, we need to a specific european farm, bought it all that is done. and it's a completely, it's just a quoting issue to think russian in payroll ambition, walking payroll ambition. i mean, the george star was talking about the other. they also at the munich security conference. oh, we must destroy the russian empire. what empire, what, what is he talking about? but now this is the, again, they get this from the united states. oh, russia has an empire. there is no russian empire. we know exactly the origins of this world. heard of this war was nato expansion. and particularly the attempt to

incorporate the ukraine into nature. and russia says that this is, you know, that this affect our security adverse that we have to address this issue. but it says warming in the absolute nonsense. and then you think, where is the european on the west european getting to the state. this is our partner. we share a continent with them. it makes sense for us to have good trading economic relations with a continent. and as we speak right now, there's been a muted reaction by the german government to the destruction of the north stream pipeline, which was very important for its economy. and you just have to look who benefits then, you know, who did it, and i strongly urge everyone to go to subs that can read site versus article, which apparently is just a taste or a lot more apparently is going to come in, you know, your missed your, your mr. ideology on cross stock and we're always happy when you're here. but, you know, yeah, i think you're absolutely right. because

a going back to the global. so it is kind of received in an ideological way and they're rejecting it from the west. they're not interested in the west post modernism. they're not interested in the values. as a matter of fact, if we look at the history of the cold war, a lot of former colonies of the west, they actually were attracted to russia because they saw rushes, an anti imperialist force. they weren't particularly interested in the soviet union's communism. and then really didn't matter now, and it actually is a hand in the glove. it is a concert rush is a conservative country. most of these countries these post on colonial countries are very conservative as well. and it's a very, very good relationship. and they still see the west colonial attempting to be maintained. it's colonial mastery over the rest of the world. so i mean the, this is one of the biggest changes we've had in the last few years that we used to talk about realignment. well, it's actually happening in real time duma. oh,

in russia part of the narrative. right now if you listen to the people right to us, they say that maybe it's our disadvantage that well right now where europeans, the west crete south with century if we were black or. ready you were oriented that would make things a lot easier to step by. they can do it. but now if you're right that it's the other way around it because you're white, you should have it, but you won't do it a hearing. i can only say, you know, to say the spirit conference, you know, when i heard the lead to a and say, very, very, or se about russia. i remember how he's doing. he became independent in 1091 how he story became independent with our short while. and i remember the st. human society . we were all very happy for them. i mean, the yeltsin was the 1st foreign leader to recognize or the independence. both

congress, the idea was let bygones be bygones will suffer time to start and now we want to see our success. but of course, we didn't want to have the most agents and the, basically, when the nato saddle, russia broke to reach the deal, you know, rush, it ain't no. you bridge the deal. because when the soviet union collapsed, the deal was that these congress will not be close, that they will not be here. maybe they will be great friends or they will not be your brain was extremely, of course, i was fresh in the last 8 years. and there are countries of the global, so when they look at it, when they, when they see how rational pro private property is, b c's, the, the west. how are russia is mistreated? as a state pro, russian, at least are subject to such is that even if it did not do it, the black athletes during that a well, i mean,

i think the lesson is learned is that, you know, the west wants to have control of all, you know, all telecommunications, all financing, and banking and all that. and then that the, the, the, the countries that go along with it, like russia did, after the end of the cold war, you can suddenly become a really big victim of it. and i think that's a lot of countries that if you use your system against the russian, you can use it against us. georgia. ok. yeah, that's right. and i think that just following up. uh huh. it was precisely that was promised to the soviet union to go by jo in 1991. you don't have to worry about anything because we, you know, once we kind of embrace them, particularly when we have a united germany within a. so it will have, you won't have any problems because they will be on the latest control and so you won't, they won't be there. so if i everything that has happened in recent years,

kind of confirms stollins a hey, the moment they get independence, they go to joining the alliance against us. they're going to be waging a war against us. i mean that's what he was saying is log on conferences. i as confirmed is doc for both. and in the, in the long, long term here who was the one that made that great mistake. it was got a bunch of no other soviet leader would even contemplate doing something like that . and he believed him. and that is the original sin of all of this is believing these people that they had benign intentions. ok, yeah. i'm not worried about the germans. i'm worried about nato when that was a gentleman. we had to a too big of a topic to discuss here, but we did get to the, the outer layers here. i want to thank my guess in moscow and in budapest, i think our viewers are watching us, you know,

our dc and next time remember ah ah, with no exposure for you guys to start with your vehicle. can somebody with, again,

with a i really thought that we were going to die for i think if i called all the way right other than i hid behind death gone by years before i was even born. and this is happening again and again and again and again again, because people continue to stick with the system i do like any other day. and only one of them came home basically, we want to make sure that certain things that are just too dangerous or regular

civilian should be in the hands of those people who are and say best for you. take no way to start with yet more misery for turkey at 2 powerful earth. quick rock this side of the country. this monday, with authority reporting more people being trapped under rebel. that comes just 2 weeks after one of the deadliest quakes in the nation's history. that claimed over $40000.00 lives also coming off on the program, joe biden makes a surprise visit to kiev and meets with president zelinski the trip collins. exactly 9 years after the deadliest day in the my done cuckoo test which was lost