of the conflict in ukraine, but here we are on this edition of the program. we reflect on the last 12 months. how, how's the conflict changed? russia, ukraine, the west, and indeed the world. ah, discuss these issues and more. i'm joined by my guess, george samuel leon budapest. he's a podcast or the goggle which can be found on youtube and locals. and here in moscow, cross to dmitri bobby, she's a political analyst and editor. it was me, internet media project. quite gentleman, cross talk roles and the fact that means you can jump anytime you want and i would appreciate it. right, george, you know, reflecting upon the last 12 months, it's a big endeavor for a program that is short as ours. so i'll start out 1st. i think that, you know, the biggest thing that is, that i become aware of is just how anti russia the west is, because this is very little, have very little to do about ukraine. you have michael mcfall. you have timothy

timothy schneider. you know, they let them ask drop, you know, this is about the breakup of russia regime change the usual playbook that we've seen over the last 30 years. and they're not even hiding it anymore. and that's going to have a very big impact on how this conflict is eventually resolved your thoughts. so that's a very interesting take and it has been stunning on the hostility, the outright hostility, in much of the western. whoa. ok to ward russia just because, you know, we would always known about this a latency hostility. and we've known about this human from, from the time of the 19th century and russian song. but it'll be soon by the cold war that, well, the only issue is communism is when, you know, we, we, we don't, you know, we love the russian people absolutely adore russian culture. russian music russian

literature from basic love it all. we just hate the communists. i mean, and you know, the terrible things of the communist, another subjugated eastern europe and so on. and suddenly all of that has just a drop to way. and, you know, it becomes very hard to understand. what is it that you hate so much about russia? other than that, if you somehow see them as the other, as a somehow this, it's a, it's a culture and it's a civilization alien to you. and it is quite remarkable. the extent to which a racism is a sanction. as long as you know you're doing this about russia, as long as it's russia, that is to become them, is to feel absolutely alien. i mean, whenever you pick up, any media outlets or something about russian spies,

russian interference and it could continue, continue generation or facility toward everything russian. yeah it's, it's almost kind of like a full key on the end of the history thing is, once, once the russians are taken out, then you know, things the world will be a, a better, brighter place. it's a, it's like the grand solution. you're russia. we're talking about your country here . i mean what, what is that? what's your major take away because you know, that was mine also. i think about media. how that is a very controlled message like we've never seen before. we'll talk about that. your thoughts, my friend. oh, i agree with george view or russia as that other is very important. i would. what would they teach you and you know, the other who helps you in this case, the west construct your role basically ideal identity. you know,

that lets you, i give them is very simple. he is back, i am not healed. that means i'm right. and the fact the russians look like the west, they like to say is no rational repeats. they look away to be it's, it makes it even more pleasant because i'm different, lot in the color of my skin. although the color of my care, i'm different because of my family. this is what they're doing and the stony nash this laugh to repeat. they say, oak rushes look like you, but don't get to see and ask us. we will tell you how these people are different. so of course, this is rachel man, one of their most interesting elements. all the strategy that has been our food in for the whole year, how the western out to liberalism and that, you know, kind of shifts in these elements or east european mesh the, you know,

violence of how liberalism the west is trying to pull this ultra americanism service, you know, using the hatred of your graham nationalist, was russia using a drug or all to connect with russia. but let me quote one of your recent talks with gorge. i love the thought of gorge. great bowers remain great bowers. precisely because they're wise enough. not to fight other great balls because of that that's less than your glow. and that's, that's undermines your mind. you can do so talking about our thermal world this. ok. it is not clear how the people are these clear. the west will get out of this week and, you know, the united states will be weaker than it was before the me know, you're at the, me,

you're absolutely right. but george, that's not what the narrative will be. i mean, i think you and i have talked about this before. if the conflict were to be settled right now with the facts on the ground, i know it's a victory. they didn't make it to the english channel. we was, i mean that, that is that that is a reflection of just how propagandized this entire endeavor has been. there is absolutely no descent. i mean, you can really think cancel culture will come after you with a vengeance. george? yes. and that's what i was thinking about. the program is just how spread the nato propaganda system is. how are you every is ever since 2008, every single nato meeting has come. you come to the conclusion that ukraine will be a member of nato. every single one of us now your grade will be a member of nato. and then what does

a friend sergeant schultz say a last year, but just because of the russia, so special military operations? nobody seriously talking about you grade being a member late. you said it, you said it every single year. your grade will be in the george. and on top of that, and after the 2014, my don qu what it nato do. started turning ukraine into a garrison, stayed with one purpose, is to attack and quote, unquote liberate the don bass, which would weaken russia. ok, so it has nothing to do with actually. yeah, exactly. and we have a meeting again, which is still going on at the munich security conference, and there is a stolen but once again, as he has on many occasions, we have been in ukraine since 2014 helping arming training ukrainians. well

then, how can you go on say he's on provoked attack, that's what you've been doing. you will be arming and ukrainian walk. go for a century mound offensive and ending the war in the don't bass. it's the one thing that this is not, is a vote, and they keep saying this and it's like, you know, again, you know, what russia is on just what they do has said themselves, you know, you know, with on a former chance of germany or shrinking all the people who are in minutes and 20142015, they said we never took them seriously. basically there was a, we were just buying time. you know, when we can mounted offensive and take a re take this on. but what you line all easy is you a line, and you have a goal to say that this was unprovoked, this is an unjustified war. you know, given glad to george brought up the munich security conference. it's an annual

event in 2007 vladimir putin basically put down russia's marker and has not moved away from it since. but isn't it interesting, george, they call it a security conference, but they don't talk about security because if they did, it would be indivisible. and that's again over the last 12 months. that the fact that the, the west is not to talk seriously about security also will have an impact on how this conflict is resolved. if they had changed track, it would impact the outcome in a different way. and i'm absolutely for talking about security and peace. the west doesn't talk about either modified their against both demon. well, it certainly propaganda on for a sec. how can you talk about security when you have zelinski addressing the start of the conference with classical music in the background, you know, showing propaganda even just and the comparing himself,

david and then saying that we're all dev, it's here. you know, mr. stomach, you are there, you know, i'm going, there was a day. this is, oh stupid. you know, it's not serious. the point about contract. this is that, that you kind of try to be some get possible you will take away emotions about security. but these are all about and all very shortly, you know, provoke emotions from, from mr. phillips. so that's absolutely true. i be with george. how can you quote the amount for both the gresh, just look at the events that preceded the decision announcement on 24th of february or the $75.00 bus has to be evacuated? you know, because there are so that the barrage or apartment is so, you know, there you, graham forces are mentioned on the board that this was

a real army. i mean, look at what happened during these months. they are still holding on hold, you know, they're, they're still bombarding us. this was a powerful army which will, which will have destroyed the, during the, of the ground in the metro hours. you know, russian. i mean, you don't be able to store, but even the russian army will be just, you know, 2 or 3 hours after the struggle. we have to also point out here, or reaffirm that this was a nato fortified ukrainian military. okay. with the adviser, with enormous amounts of munitions, obviously financing it intelligence. but george not to co ballinger in, in the ok again. if these people and munich were serious, they would talk about security. and when you talk about security, then that's the resolution. maybe every single party involved would not be happy with the outcome ultimately, but they all could live together and that should be the aim george. yes,

exactly. i mean this really is a wall that should never have happened. i mean, we have that year after year in which the russians you're putting, the love role has continually warned that we have to resolve this problem. this means you have to apply pressure against your client to implement men's and our patience is not endless. i mean, they said this over and over again and then goes in december, when the boot is submitted, those drop security, treat it back on the basis negotiation, the opposite will be the basis to end the conflict. jordan, mark my words, we're going to go full circle and seen what is all happened in between time should have never happened. you're jen when i have to jump in here, we have to go to a hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on some really stay with our team. ah, ah,

ah, ah, ah, for, ah, there is no us strategic national security interest in you created all i would say there is no interest us interest in ukraine. where is it very vital in for the russian federation that ukraine be restored to

a neutral buffer state separated for nato countries? ah ah, watching it was a with

welcome back to process where all things are considered on peter bell. this is the home addition to remind you. we're discussing some real news the let's go back to here and let's kind of broaden it a little bit here. one of the, one of the biggest changes was the last 12 month is the complete capture of yours by the americans with the atlanta, according to see more harris, the destruction of the north stream pipelines. and then we've also seen and very important. and i don't think it has given enough traction and in western capital. and western media is the reaction of the global south. they're not on board for this western assault, collective western assault on russia. they're not on board. they're not interested in metaphor. just the opposite. rushes appealing to them, reaching out to them and trade is increasing. huge changes in trading patterns

right now, and that's only going to continue even if the conflict were the end today. so the capture of europe and the reaction of the global. so demon. well, just some figures the export, so russian oil to get jump full on the stem last year, experts basically from 0, everybody from 0. yeah. well now it's a substantial amount crush. sell the same story with china. so the conflict has changed the economics so you have to go right? but i think the capture or like i'm sure you're by the states that you happen, not so much. you cannot make less ideologically, basically just the contrast. so it's form a channel. what issues are, you know, the german diplomat, he said, and they need to go to the speaker megs in the fall and we only needed a quote to stop russian troops. i don't you now get unit and the main mistake that

we made during the wind. yes. and that was us, we underestimated rushes be real ambitions. so basically the man, i mean, he was responsible that was responsible. mark my watch wasn't the means to be much . he was responsible for the dialogue between kia and the rebel republics. he did a wonderful job, not a single meeting, lot a single phone call to the place and all this man has been trading the munich security conference. and now he's given the whys. and merkle is in, on the re retreat. you know, she, she has needs that she actually was alliance in 1015. they didn't want a real piece. they wanted to get out of why was she is troops, software defeat basically defeats us. so the problem with europe is that it is losing economically, i mean,

the russian brain i make and human sacrifices. europe is the big rules or economic . and this is not me saying that this is mona, towards the french at the last gave a very courageous each of you know, if you got rope and also said that there were 2 major surprises during this 1st, almost everyone expect the russian army to defeat the ukrainian army quickly underestimate them are all american investment and british investment in that ukraine on how much they had already. we agree before 2022 and the 2nd price was the fact that you want me to sustain the ball. sanctions did not destroy russia, were most starving that it was the 2nd major surprise band and the big losing your because that the price is jump. i mean,

the european industry is becoming irrelevant because they pay so much for, for the production of their products. so basically, it's a huge increase. there is a huge increase in american negatives. i mean, look after the world war 2, the united states were ready to redeem it there. and be sure to preserve western europe from starting to preserve south korea from north korea, from a devastating a strike. now then i, the stage is basically that we don't care by our expensive gas stay with our russian gas, destroy your economy, you know, make a black hole out of russia. don't care. the same story with, with a far east, you know, fight china. we don't care about japan was by trying to south korea when, if you know, george, how do you explain that? i mean, it is ideological and again, you and i talk on a regular basis about a lead capture because i can't understand the logic, at least in a formal sense,

is that it's all about ukraine sovereignty. when europe, over the last year is erased its own economic sovereignty almost completely, george. this is very interesting. it is a complete, illogical capture because there was once, not that long ago, a distinctively european outlook on international affairs on a variety of issues. but in most particular, in relation to the soviet union, during the cold war, the europeans, different from the united states. yes, the one members of nato, but they said it doesn't make sense to us. and it's, it's gone and our national interest to pursue an aggressive policy toward the soviet union. we, as you know, germany said it doesn't, you know, it damages our relations with the east and france again, you know, we need to

a specific european foreign policy. all that is done and it's a completely, it's just a quoting issue. i think russian in payroll ambition, walking payroll ambition. i mean the george star was talking about the other. they also at the munich security conference, we must destroy the russian empire. was empire. well, what, what is he talking about? but now this is the, again, they get this from the united states. oh, russia has an empire. there is no russian empire. we know exactly the origins of this world. heard of this war was nato expansion. and particularly the attempt to incorporate the ukraine in nature. and russia said that this is, you know, that this affect our security adverse that we have to address this issue. but it says warming in the absolute nonsense. and then you think, where is the european on the west european getting to the state. this is our partner. we share a continent with them. it makes sense for us to have good trading economic

relations with a continent. and as we speak right now, there's been a muted reaction by the german government to the destruction of the north stream pipeline, which was very important for its economy. and you just have to look who benefits then, you know, who did it, and i strongly urge everyone to go to subs that can read size versus article, which apparently is just a taste or a lot more apparently is going to come in, you know, your missed your, your mr. ideology on cross stock and we're always happy when you're here. but, you know, yeah, i think you're absolutely right. because a going back to the global. so it is kind of received in an ideological way and they're rejecting it from the west. they're not interested in the west post modernism. they're not interested in the values. as a matter of fact, if we look at the history of the cold war, a lot of former colonies of the west, they actually were attracted to russia because they saw rushes,

an anti imperialist force. they weren't particularly interested in the soviet union's communism. and then really didn't matter. now it actually is a hand in the glove. it is a concert rush is a conservative country. most of these countries these post on colonial countries are very conservative as well. and it's a very, very good relationship. and they still see the west colonial attempting to be maintained. it's colonial mastery over the rest of the world. so i mean the, this is one of the biggest changes we've had in the last few years that we used to talk about realignment. well, it's actually happening in real time duma. oh, in russia part of the narrative. right now if you listen to the people right to us, they say that maybe it's our disadvantage that well right now where europeans on the west street south but such that if we were black or. ready you were oriented that would make things

a lot easier to step by. they can do it. but now if you write that, it's the other way around it because you're white, you should have it, but you won't do it. it's actually very ok here. i can only say, you know, to say this really contest. you know, when i heard the lead to a and say very, very, or start, think about russia. i remember how he's doing. he became independent in 1091 how he story became independent with our short while. and i remember the st. human society . we were all very happy for them. i mean, yelton was the 1st foreign leader to recognize are the independence. both congress, the idea was led by going to be by wants, will start to start and now we want to see our success. but of course, we didn't want to have the most any, and the, basically, when the nato saddle, russia broke to reach the deal, you know, rush, it ain't no,

you bridge the deal. because when the soviet union collapsed, the deal was that these congress will not be close, that they will not be here. maybe they will not be great friends, or they will not be your brain was extremely or start, especially in the last 8 years. and there are countries of the global, so when they look at it, when they, when they see how russia pro private property is b. c, the west. how are russia is treated as a state co, russian, at least are subject to such is that even if it did not do it, the black athletes during that a well, i mean, i think the lesson is learned is that, you know, the west wants to have control of all, you know, all telecommunications, all financing, and banking and all that. and then that the, the, the, the countries that go along with it, like russia did. after the end of the cold war, you can suddenly become a really big victim of it. and i think that's

a lot of countries see that if you use your system against the russian, you can use it against us. ga. ok. yeah, that's right. and i think that just following up on the, it was precisely that was promised to the soviet union to go by jo in 1991. if you don't have to worry about anything, because we, you know, once we kind of embrace them, particularly when we have a united germany within a. so it will have, you won't have any problems because they will be on the latest control. and so you won't, they won't be there. so if i, everything that has happened in recent years, kind of confirms stollins because both, hey, the moment they get independence, they got to join an alliance against us. going to be waging a war against us. i mean that's kind of what he was saying is walter, i'm conferences, i as confirmed his doctors for both. and if you're in the, in the long, long term here who was the one that made that great mistake,

it was got a bunch of no other soviet leader would even contemplate doing something like that . and he believed him. and that is the original sin of all of this is believing these people that they had benign the intentions. ok me, i'm not worried about the germans. i'm worried about nato. and that was the whole thing. i gentlemen, we had to a too big of a talk, a topic to discuss here. but we did get to the, the outer layers here. i want to thank my guess in moscow and in budapest where i think our viewers are watching us. here are the scene exam, remember, cross out. ah ah oh, nice counter russian state patrol never. i'm tired of. i'm phoning most. i'm skiing

with eclipse in 55 when. okay, so mine is 25 and speaking with we will van in the european union. the kremlin media machine, the state on russia for date, and school r t spoke back to even our video agency, roughly all bands on youtube said with in the 1950s the u. s. used former nazis against the soviet union in the 21st

century. they engineered a kuta, the fish, the former soviet republic, into our confrontation with moscow. well, certainly if the united states and the u. k and the rest of the western world had not engaged in conflict with the ukraine and with the soviet union and its successor and the russian federation. we would not have the horrible situation we have today. i think that if the american stopped, we would be at peace and the role would be a lot better place and the economy, the world function certainly better than is doing now. i mean what happens when you make digital gains with actual physical sport? something like digital. yeah, there's yes,

because on is preparing to host the 1st ever gains of the future face hybrid contest with a physical dimension. one of the innovators, eager to study at all, is on the verge of redefining sports and gaming. he tells us what's behind this synergy and if it's the future ah with mm. welcome to worlds apart. worse coolers have low pointed out that having the united states as a security background has to create a potent moral hazard for its allies who often become geopolitically, inflate.