gonna make you uncomfortable. my show is called direct impact, but again, you probably don't wanna watch it because it might just change the wayne thing. a news media was kind of like, if you speak russian, keep your voice down while out and about a couple. don't put your human symbols on display a social space each night or guy. so you guys don't talk to strangers. i avoid noisy gatherings and run a marsh. we've eaten your colleagues and perhaps also your friends think you're guilty because you'll russian

. a glad the with being a buying it for a specific story. short with a with hello and welcome to cross talk where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle . mr. barton goes to care the u. s. president. unannounced trip can be interpreted in a number of ways, is one of them an active desperation to keep washington's coalition of the willing together just before the anticipated russian offensive. we will soon find out

a cross talking ukraine. i'm joined by my guest, carla nixon in washington. he's a political analyst in new york, we have let me goldstein, he's the chair of the department of slavic studies at brown university and in south and we crossed to michael desk. he is the packing j. d, professor of international relations at the university of notre dame or identity cross roles. and in fact, that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciate a lot of me, let me go to you. breaking news here. a short time ago, vladimir putin addressing the nation, announced that russia would be suspending negotiations for the start to treaty, which i think in total. now that is the end of arms control that were in the soviet union slash russia had with the west. garments control essentially is dead. i seriously doubt negotiations. i'll return before the 2026 expiration date. this is

a major decoupling that the coupling is done. would you say so? lot of mere. yes. i think russia kept on sending the same message, the united states and the nature that dawned escalate by a frozen dead. the ears serrato go through on the action of the action and they soon or later have to realize it in our indeed, you know, all this talk about nuclear war is and not just all eat can result, you know, the date. and by the next year, it was read it in key of odds and ends. he said, if china and to the fray, it means a 3rd world war. so in other words, this is like a important escalation and push and sends a message, a very clear message boss. with that mr. origins and the foreign audience that these, this years and will do the best we can do to protect our conte, which includes you know, stop talking to the people who do not listen to us. exactly. michael and south. and

if i go to you now, i me going back to this be coupling issue here. we have a battle of narratives, of putin is already given his address shortly. joe biden, in more so i will give his address. i suppose it will be pretty much a repetition of what he said last time. he was there very up outside of possible gas, which we can always expect here. but, but michael, that me, this really is a battle of narratives. it says a decoupling on the that the red lines have been drawn here and russia continues to show that it will react to what to west is doing. and it has to do it out of self interest, obviously. but it's very serious and it's getting pretty scary. i would say, michael. yeah, no, i agree. although i think the pulling out of the start process is more symbolic than real in terms of its impact. i think the bigger thing

that may be happening, in fact, is the decision of the chinese to be more supportive of the eye russians are in this war. so there is the real decoupling. ah, is it? you know, if china becomes a, you know, throws it's lottie and even more fully with the russians that will harden the battle lines in a big way to other things. one is the question, of course, of really how solid the atlantic community front is on maintaining the war. i think that's an open question at the elephant in the room though is the global south, which has not are bought into the western narrative in terms of who's at fault and how this thing needs to be brought to an end. so there are, there are a lot of deep divisions um and they seem to be hard neg, for,

i absolutely agree with the garland that i think that exists the exact reason why biden went to care of her, his very short visit. i mean, it was kind of across between a fundraising campaign and cheerleading. i'll keep trying to keep his coalition together, which is, is, is fraying at a, at this, at the, at the end because the, the cost of this conflict to europe see europe is the one that's being crushed the most. you're obviously outside of the of ukraine here, and biden has to keep his flock in order. and so to go and it was a public relations stand to, they cleared it with the russians in advance. but i mean, this is biden's war and it's he thrown everything into it. that's what makes it so dangerous because these neal consider directing him there, uncompromising. and at the same time rush is not going to compromise its security. this is where we are. garland. yeah, i think it's also a reminder to everyone that on the current conflict and in the current conflict,

that nato is now really a bilateral group that is, of the united states and the most extreme elements in the, in europe, which would be, you know, poll in the baltic states, i think that the, again we say the elephant in the room, the blue whale and the phone booth shall we say, is the north stream attacks by the, basically nato as a whole on germany. so i think biden has again bypass and ignored germany. he can't talk about germany much. now there are major problems and they're concerned as to how that's going to iron out in the long run. but i think the western europe that, you know, we can see some cracked in western europe. we can see some very significant an antiwar rallies happening in munich. so i think biden's concerned and he's working with those who are of light, mind, poland, which seemed to be willing to, you know, readily sacrifice the lives and livelihoods of their own, of their, of their citizens. for the neo con project. yeah, they,

i'm glad you brought up north stream because latimer, there's it, there's all this talk, you know, it's like on anti war dot com in responsible state craft about how negotiations could start. i don't know where these people are, where their head is blowing up the north stream pipelines here. i mean, how do you negotiate with people like that? i did. i have no idea vladimir. yeah, i think a mentioned near corn is very important. so i think i, you know, there is another term it would describes, ah, america of foreign policy is like, woke a imperialist. so it's got a healthy kind of combination. oh, this neo liberals, while they're walking ano guns with a imperialism. and this is a very powerful group. however, you know, i read in just an essay, talking about the psy mirage article about north north west. a better do they, the fact that he got this information tells us that there is

a split within united united states establishment. somebody in washington is not happy about this. what, what woke fire and it's overreach. so i think it's a very important kind of dimension which were mentioned not only within the nato, but even without united states establishment because people are smart people and pentagon and j broad. understand that this is, you know, this is not in american inches. this is in the interest of this very strange group around stay stay department in biden, you know, hot, cold as a room supporters. and it has to be stopped. but i, there are forces, i'm sure, normal or regular people who sort of in our united states will still believe that the business of america is business and not all. so i think that's less of the one who eventually will, will come to power and russia will negotiate with them. yeah i, i think my colleague has made a couple of very important points by 1st the, i know the pro war party is broader than just the old neoconservatives. i don't

think i'd call on the i, you know, the other part of it woke imperialists. i think i'd call them liberal imperialists . these are people who are deeply committed to the liberal world order. yeah. um and, you know, i, i, i think there's a lot of, you know, sort of the liberal world order that i personally am attracted to. but i think the problem here is that, you know, it creates a series of big blind spots. are that really in my view, explain how we've gotten into this mass or, you know, yesterday, and jake sullivan had sat at one point. i think it's reflecting on the cause of the war that nato expansion had nothing to do with nato's. a defensive alliance made up of democracies, both of which are true, but, you know, i mean,

from the perspective of the other side, you could see how that would also be irrelevant. and so i think when the history of this mass is written in much the same way that the history of the vietnam war was written, years ago, our liberal blindness is going to be a big factor in how we ended up in the soup here. well, garland nina, talking about the liberal world order, i mean, one of the things that's really come about. and since the advent of this conflict is the intense russo phobia, i mean, you know, you have in the pages of foreign affairs and you basically have to break up russia . we have to break it up. i mean, this is where they're coming from. this is where it's all about and what would make this so pathetic is has nothing to do with ukraine even though ukrainians are being slaughtered. okay, for a war that nato wanted, the history books will have to explain to me why the ukrainians went along with

this in the 1st place. garland. so i'll push back i, i oppose the concept of the liberal, a world order for a couple of reasons, not the, not the least of which being, it's a fake. it is equivalent lee, the idea of me walking up saying i'm here to help you in hitting you over the head with a rock and stealing your wallet. that liberal world order is number one. number 2, it also implies a hierarchical cultural order in the world. and implies that the liberal order, the liberal way of seeing the world is somehow superior and that other people, traditional cultures, maybe the africans, the middle eastern, goes on cassia cultures, et cetera, that they don't have a right to their culture and that they would be better off if they accepted ours, and i think all of those countries are looking at what is happening in the us culture with shocking horror saying we don't want any parts of that. whether we agree or not. i believe that all cultures that rather than a hierarchical culture, that the world should be more like a mosaic where all cultures is, are viewed as part of a, of a, of you know, a mood 0 is mosaic piece of art,

which all of them charlie wasn't wasn't that traditional liberalism that that's what was okay. yeah, right. but i mean, because it's, you know, i am, i am a died in the wall conservative. i don't want to become a liberal up. okay. and i don't want to be forced to become a liberal. ok, and this is something that they believe they have to remake the world in their own image. then the image of victoria new and that's a scary thought. all right, by a gentleman, i got a job in, i gotta go, i gotta go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on your current state with arcade. ah, ah ah

ah. i look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except where such order that conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about personal intelligence at the point. obviously is too

late. trust rather than fear. a job with artificial intelligence, real summoning with a robot must protect its own existence with ah, welcome back to cross stock where all things are considered on peter labelle to remind you were discussing you crate.

okay, let's go back to michael and self and did the 1st part of the program in, in a direction. i didn't really expect that i really like it because i like to talk about the, the, the social and philosophical angles of all of this here. you know, michael, it, this is one of the reasons why the, the, the liberal west, the leaks in the west. they hate russia because rush is a very conservative place. and that's something that they, they, they can't tolerate. and they don't like to have any kind of alternative model. now you don't have to be a conservative in to appreciate russia, but mean this is something was some of the themes here. what a lot of people don't understand until netflix left the mark and a lot of people would watch netflix and kind of an oddity, you know, like wow, that's what they do in the west. we don't want that here. okay. but you know that that's in, there's a now there is a growing rejection of this woke is stud culture, that is it. and i agree with vladimir, that's really infiltrated foreign policy. your thoughts, michael? well, i think the fact that

a lot of americans believe that i rashanda vladimir putin, i was deeply supportive of donald trump, quite polarized. yeah, but there isn't, but there's not, there's not, there's no evidence of that, but nonetheless, know how, right. but, but nonetheless, a lot of people believe that um, and so what it has done is, you know, make, this is made a domestic ideological fight in the united states an international lives to. and of course, i'm old enough to remember the cold war in when the soviet union was regarded as you know, in the vanguard of the left. and now the irony is, i, you know, for lot of americans, it's a lot of americans on the left, especially. it's now a force of reaction from the right. so my head is spinning. it's the ames hey

romantically during my life. yeah, yeah. like think the washington post never had anything bad to say about the soviet union has nothing good to say about russia today is in my head is spinning to lot america, you know, i guess we're all children of the cold war here. and i knew a lot of great soviet specialists, really, really good historians. they adored russia. that's why they studied the soviet union. they hated communism, but they adored russia and its culture and respected it here. that is another major change here. and you coming from a letters yourself that must be astounding for you teaching bill skiwski. go ahead . vladimir. you know, it's the whole thing is very, very crazy or all this. our former former grade professors. first of all, it took russia seriously. they, they to good with a spare. it was a different sort of, you know, getting low fish. they, when they studied, they admired may be certain things would put them all, but it was like a unique continent. would you go and start and study and explore. you know,

i go to australia inside the, there animals which don't exist anymore. however, with the collapse of the soviet union, they made a very, if your conclusion that it doesn't matter. you know, let's forget about the say that who cares about a unique, unique flora and fauna. let's, let's forget about it. and then being bombarded again again, and i said that he was, he is currently the only thing they can do is aggression. the only thing they can do is violence. so let's split them and now until this makes is like total loonies and but annoyed many action, borland and bullies who actually support this idea. so basically, rather than sort of a taking thing seriously will leave in the serious role we're facing. she is issues off, i think it becomes like know when all the truth as, as it does matter and we are harvested now. what, what, what was so, you know, vladimir, i had, took the occasion a couple of weeks ago to re read alexander sold geneva since famous commencement

address. i. yes. i which i, i didn't really understand at the time where he was coming from. but from the context of 2023, it makes clear, you know, the deep fault wines of between traditional russia, which had come to represent at that point even well before the collapse of the soviet union. and the, the liberal, big l liberal west. and i wish i'd been smarter. i think i would be less confused by. yeah, well michael just came up for a came up with a great topic for a future addition of crossed out because that commencement the speech is absolutely fascinating. and remember, michael, after he made the speech, the liberal west, turned their back on him. remember that? okay. you know, as i say he was, can't, they didn't use the term, but they cancel them after that speech. let me go to garland right now. moving on,

garland, you know, the, the, what has happened here, the west is turn this into an existential struggle, which it doesn't, didn't have to be for the west for russia. yes. because of security reasons. and that's what it's all about. nobody in the west wants to talk about security. they want to talk about victory. if you continue to look with the russians, have to say, we need to be able to live securely in europe. and you're not allowing that to happen. that's why this conflict and ukraine happened. they still do not want to talk about it that way. it's existential. but they, but that is a craven choice and it's a self fulfilling prophecy. yeah. now it is turning into it because you made it that way. garland. what was existential for their narrative? and since the neocons of the neo liberal p cloud live in the narrative, it seems existential to them. their narrative to die. if a to die is tantamount to them to them to actually die kind of like when a person in the movie, the matrix dies in the matrix. they die in real life. that's the way they feel about their narrative being threatened. let me add this to, i think,

and this is important statement i wanted to make. when we talk about conservatism, there's a conservatism, the more a conservatism that is not tied to left in right, per se, in that's tied to tradition and stability. i traveled extensively in south america, unabashed, socialist, marxist, linen, et cetera. but when it comes to conservatism, from a perspective of how they live on a day to day basis, they're much more aligned with, say, a russia than they are with the united states. why? because they are very much into their tradition in the indigenous people, etc. and they're very much believe in stability. so do say the liberals who the su tradition and who are create chaos and instability, you know, the so you know that they're not there. first of all, i think they're redefining left as cultural issues as opposed your traditional left, which sees viewing the world through the context of the working class. so i think

there's a, so there is a difference in definitions of what we mean by conservative values of or addition and stability. i can just imagine our viewers all nodding their head in agreeing with you because i do, and i think the, our, our, our panel does who, michael, you're the one that brought up the global south, which i called the global majority. um, you know, during, during the cold war they, they did look to the soviet union as a friend, as an ally because it was anti west anti imperialist. but they still do now in and now they, they looked hard to serve you now because of its communism because they were against the oppression of the west. but now we have in the end of the cold war here . now we have the global south again looking to, to the, to russia in the, in the way the garland just explained to us traditional values. michael instability ability is worth it. so yeah, i think it's a, it's a combination of things. certainly, as garland says, i'm, you know, as joseph sham,

peter famously said about capitalism. it's a process of creative destruction. i think political liberalism also is a process of creative destruction. and what gets destroyed are often traditional values. and most people are uncomfortable with the destruction of traditional values. so to the extent that russia seems like a proponent of a different way of political and social ordering, it's attractive, i think also though it's balance of bow power politics. if you think that the united states in the unipolar moment is, needs to be counterbalanced. russia and china are probably 2 of the logical countries that you're going to look to for that counterbalancing. so strikes me as being over determine power and culture it, well, let me, let's,

let's address that here because, um, the ukraine seems to be the epicenter of a, of a new cold war. and this is something again, the neocons around joe biden seemed to be prepared for it. he, they've been able to cow and capture europe to the point where europe has lost its sovereignty. though they're fighting in ukraine for ukraine. sovereignty. i find that really odd. oh, by the way, that the american southern border is left unguarded. i mean, there's some very peculiar value slotting around here. black vladimir, go ahead. there is unbelievable. he, booker, she, which way, which, which will witness. you know, i like the concept. orig, garland introduces miss a united states, which is, say, they tolerate mosaic in canada. you know, united states is an english speaking country, and that's fine. if to canadians want to have a french and english and have their own kind of, you know, or asian and college and go back fine. what's happened in ukraine out of the blue

rather than having this mosaic. they have rational speaking, the east of a culture, the pro ration east. they have it, you know, culture, the proportion a pro western a west or leave in iran from keeps. so this is, should be graham oral has continued to exist on the, on the principle mosaic or the west and 8th or united states decided to use this moment to impose this west ukrainian values. people are very, very much agricultural, you know, culture upon very industrialized pro, ration east. this is absolutely hip already. they don't do it in belgium, insisted in some particular language. they don't do it in canada. but ukraine was a very interesting, important born of contention where they agreed to throw all their values of a respect for other cultures for minorities. just for the sake of driving this, this kind of civility strange message home, keep germany down,

keep russia out there. and you know, i put that would be great as a wedge between russia in europe. right. and what is that? this is the unity which is there. okay, michael, we got 40 seconds. finish it all for us. uh, well, i think the tragedy of the ukraine war is ultimately going to be on that many in the west thought that they were doing the lord's work. but as we know, the road to hell is often paved with good intentions, and we're certainly seeing the road to hell in ukraine today. yeah is i've often pointed out on this program, the more the west helps ukraine, the more ukrainians die in the smaller the country comes. that that's a great ally to have. it's really truly remarkable. and i have no idea what future historians will make of it. that's all the time we have gentlemen. i want to thank my guests in washington, new york, and in south, and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at ortiz. see you next time. remember,

cross titles. ah, in the 1950s, the us used former nazis against the soviet union. in the 21st century. they engineered kuta, the fish, the former soviet republic, into our confrontation with moscow will certainly if the united states and the u. k and the rest of the western world had not engaged in conflict with the ukraine and with the soviet union and its successor, the russian federation. we would not have the horrible situation we have today. i think that if the american stopped and we would be at peace and the role would be a lot better place and the economy, the world were functioning centrally,

better than it's doing now. ah me what happens with digital dins with actual physical sports, something like digital? yeah there's yes because on is preparing to host the 1st ever gains of the future. they cyber contests with a physical dimension. one of the innovators, eager to study at all, is on the verge of redefining sports and game it. he tells us what's behind this synergy. and if it's the future, when i was shown seemed wrong. well, please, just don't move to shape out. this thing becomes the attitude

and engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look so common ground. for now was covered the result of scientist research and gain a function, an opening up pandora's box. as the world is recovering from coven 19th, there are still a lot of questions concerning the origin of the virus and the role of us taxpayer funded research in china. i'm christy, and you're watching the cost of everything. where today we're going to be taking a look at both sides of the gain of function debate with gain of function research or g f involved experimentation. that ain't.