joining about the program, it's really great to talk to you and then we'll take on things we've been speaking to jose vega, american journalist on back to this. thanks. thank you. and thank you for joining us. a on all t international with back in 30 minutes with more for i look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except where such order at conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about artificial intelligence. at the point obviously is too great trust, rather than fear i would like to take on various jobs with artificial intelligence, real summoning with

a robot must protect his own existence with ah ah, ah hello and welcome to crosstalk, where all things are considered on peter lavelle the great decoupling has finally occurred with russia. suspending is participation in the new start arms control treaty. russia and the west have gone their own separate ways and in the process arms control appears to be dead in the water. more troubling times i had a

cross hawking decoupling. i'm joined by my guest said c intense mania. he's accompli consultant and a retired u. s. foreign service officer in paris. we have john brick mall. he is a political commentator and, and we're trying to, we cause to christopher hello lee. he is a political analyst and researcher or a gentleman cross how close to the fact that means you can jump any time he want. and i would appreciate was got a tenant tens mania 1st. tell me what, you know, i'm, i'm sure all of these solve the 2 speeches. one, the latter we are putting, gave to the nation an annual event and biden's appearances and in care of and in warsaw. and you couldn't get more just opposed. biden is on an ideological crusade. it's not, there's no sense of cause causality. there is no context. there's not even really a goal the rest of the russian president talked about why brushes in this conflict . it's about geo politics in security. and you can get more diverse than that. and

this is one of the reasons why i think the west is misunderstanding why the conflict started in the 1st place in white. it continues your thought said, well, i think peter, that the problem that we continue to see is the western uses to listen to russia has completely ignored russian men lions for many years now. and the real difficulty right at the moment, i believe, is unlike for us presidents who weren't listening to the president of the russian federation, we know about one who can't listen because he's not mentally quite there. but so a very good point. they're generally the same, a question to you is that this is one of the reasons why this conflict is, is construed in a, in radically different ways. again, russia is talking about security and right before the conflict on december 17th, 2001 they said, look, here is what we need. we need to talk about these things. and they were completely blown off by washington and by nato. and the end here we are, and that rush,

his goal is to end this when it security is been assured, nobody in the west seriously wants to talk about the french president. if it's an odd day or an even day, i can't really tell he flip flops back and forth here on this issue here. but until both sides can get on the same page, this conflict isn't going to come to an end. go ahead in paris. yes. where i think you have to, with this kind of thinking perspective in what happened over the 20th century, which is mostly the process of the colonization, or di westernization. it started 1920 with the beckle congress and the appeal to the people of the ohio. and we just launched by lenin and a bunch of weeks coding for them to be decoded, eyes because they're here later, evolution and you hope was impossible. and that certainly happy to people like not to know what you mean and started the one about of the process of the colonization . the 2nd stage was the bundle conferencing indonesia in 1955 and the beginning of

the learner line movements, which launch a new stage for the finance company, the completion of the deaconate zation in africa and elsewhere. and also the creation of down present would be independent, both from the companies block and from the west and from the united states. and that went along her the well, i think, but of course we, the collapse of the soviet union. the western us had, you know, that i've been busy with checks is to use the phrase used by studying during the quality zation. they did again, dizzy with texas. they thought that the, this and you, those on your hike in front of them and they're going to control the world. and it was, of course, the neo liberal b i. e. and there he can is ation of part of the world and interventions in yugoslavia architecture, etc. and now they have run into something highly difficult with his her show her show. he's not the ac is not here. and even celia was on to success and even against them was not to success,

but certainly crochet is much more resistance. and the main change due to the war. i don't want to discuss what it says is a personal and between russia and china and the fact that the rest of the world, including india, which has been stayed to china for many years and have good latin america. and africans are getting closer to this new must go beijing axis. and then that, of course, is the most significant event of the last year. in my view, if perspective of what's going on in the can you change a new need against it. western the that such an excellent point to me and i think this program is we're about to coupling, but basically it's battle a battle of narratives that fall and christopher here, chris, very, it's fascinating. went to john, had to say, because this is the, the west continues to want to recreate the world and its own image. and we're in, they had a brick wall when it came to rush, rush said, now we're not going to go along with that. and the rest of the world is taking

a good part of the world is taking that q is that? no, we will not follow your rules based order. what other mumbo jumbo you want to throw at us here. there is a breach. there's a significant breach here. and it's having a knock on effect, the global south is not reacting to the west wants. obviously china is and, and india is or is a wild card here. there's a lot of things in play right now. christopher, go ahead. basically, you have to look at the past the, you know, few decades to understand after the collapse of the soviet union. it's not like the u. s. and it's a utopian partners and nato, all of a sudden were, you know, going out and generous to the global south, and generous to others. instead, they did the opposite. they went on the warpath. they destroyed yugoslavia. they went to eventually into afghanistan, into iraq, into libya. they've destroyed syria. they've gone through countless countries and just reeked havoc and devastation. so everybody else is watching this over the past few decades is saying, this is coming for us. not only russia and china,

the dpr kate under, you know, 1st under kim's janiella, now under kim's, when they're watching. and they're saying, absolutely not. we're not gonna believe that they have our legitimate interests, or that they care about our sovereignty and our territorial integrity. they don't, and so ultimately, over the past few decades, you know, vladimir putin has tried a persistently to call for negotiations to call for diplomacy to call for something to happen. and what you've seen is further encroachment further expansion by nato. and so, of course, russia has a, a, an important part in its national defense. it's, it's national security, which is, it's strategic that, that can allow nato to come right to the border just within a few 100 kilometers of its capital. and it's major sites. so ultimately, when you're looking at this, when you're looking at the 2 speeches, you known is he to narratives, you see 2 completely different visions of the world. one under he gemini,

of the west, one under u. s. u nato, imperialism, and the other with a new multiple, the world where people have respect for the sovereignty, the territorial integrity and the internal affairs of all the respective countries . and is astounding. go ahead to head here it go ahead, jump in, shall go ahead. well, those, this week me, which is to do little bit the it is we the chinese who use a baby about germany to disabling all aspect of urban american gemini. i've done to read but something. i hope there be another close to that because that seem to be, well, we were reading my mind. let me go to ted here on this here. i mean, the rest of the world is watching how the united states deals. it's with it's close allied germany and the north stream pipelines. i mean, if that's how america treats its bread and how is america and its allies go to treat pose. i mean that, that western media doesn't want to talk about it. you know, it seems her,

she's the greatest living journalist of our time and he's being ignored by the new york times by the way, where he used to work here. but that event blowing up those pipelines is good. it has ramifications that i think even the people in the white house have no idea what they're bun leashed. ted, go ahead. peter, i'll be the 1st to say that, say more very, haven't got everything he's written correct in a long and always interesting career. but at this time, i've worked with jake sullivan, i've worked with toria new and everything he wrote. that's true to me. i think he got this one right. and i know he got it right. but the fact that it's now it's, you know, public source and available to people without sort of hiding behind classifications, means that the narrative is crumbling at lightspeed, pretending that it was anyone other than united states special courses that went in and did this act that destruction and damaged europe for decades to come. thank you very much. you can safely ignore everyone. you can safely ignore the official

narrative. the truth is out. yeah, well, christopher, i mean this was an active international terrorism. ok, i mean, and we in ok if, if the united states didn't do it then who did it's kind of like the o. j. simpson trial. ok. i mean, if he didn't kill his ex wife and then who did ok, christopher. i think of 1st and foremost, you know, now that sy hersh has written this article, we've been saying it for, for months now, yet we've been saying that this did, that there was no possibility, no way that russia spend billions of dollars to create this pipeline. and to, and use it as part of their diplomacy, irreproachable with europe, the building, the mutual a sort of agreements and success of all of the entire continent. and all of a sudden they're going to go and destroy their own pipeline. it doesn't make sense . but of course, instantly you know, part of this, the reality that we're now living in, we were the one spreading misinformation and disinformation, quote, unquote, we were the one spreading. a, you know,

a kremlin propaganda. it wasn't prevalent propaganda and it isn't. it's just of the ality that russia would not do this. it's not within, it is just out of the bounds of, of what would be realistic. and now that sy hersh has written this, i think it's taking the lid off of a dis, a cocktail that, that the west is, is making in their mainstream media. and people are finally seeing and waking up and saying maybe maybe we're being duped, not only on north stream by blank, but on everything in french and connected with a variety of issues, whether be the operation ukraine, or for example, the balloon going over the u. s. as my balloon a cuz we're really just go ahead. we have 40 seconds before we go to the break. i had jump. do you remember the day mind or how bell south nicaragua, during the sandinista time? yeah, i mean was, we were even condemned by the international court of justice and they never pay that operation. that's pure gang series and they used to do it to the south and other do it to you. oh, well, i mean it,

all 3 of you in our audience here was weapons of mass destruction. does that ring any bells? are there any one here? i mean, if they light about that then that then they a, we have to safely assume that they lie about a whole lot of things may be about everything we'll go. we'll ask ted, when we come back from the break because he used to work on the belly of the beast itself, or a gentleman. we're going to go to a short break after that short break. we'll continue our discussion on decoupling. same with archy. ah ah, in lisa hunter, russian state total narrative. i stayed on the north lansky devastation, sunset for a coup in the 55 when. okay, so mine is 2000 speedy. one else

with little van in the european union. the kremlin, can you? yep. machine. the state aunt rush up to date and split our t spoke neck. even our video agency, roughly all band to on you to send with me i. my name is franklin richardson, so dos you got in the move in any age, 13 or 14 years violence, torture those people because we believed there were this race were here 1st. and this is our country being part of that movement. i got your sense of power. when i felt powerless, we got attention when i felt invisible and accepted when i talked to level life

after, hey, is an organization that was founded by for a skinhead neo nazi white supremacist in the u. s. in canada. and they found each other and they knew that they wanted to help other guys get half was 2 parts to getting out of a violent extremist group. the 1st part is disengagement, which is where you leave the social group. and then the next part is d. radicalization work belief systems audiology are removed. it was very impactful. when someone finally came along with no fear, no judgement, you heard my story did nothing to challenge it. validate with welcome back across stock where all things are considered on peter bell to remind you we're discussing decoupling with

okay, let's go back to ted in tanzania, head you said something quite tantalizing in the 1st part of the program that you've worked with the likes of jake sullivan, and you believed that they were very much involved in this on this plan to destroy the pipelines. can you give us a little bit? i mean, that's kind of a tease. not very fair to me. are viewers explain yourself? well, let's just say that everything that hers wrote about the 2 of them being involved with the planning and execution of this operation rings true. having seen them in action when i was with the u. s. mission at nato. okay, well that, that, that's not a lot of detail, but we're gonna take your word on it. okay. i me go back to christopher christopher, you know, there's, there's all this talk i, i look at the pages of, you know, like response will stay craft antiwar dot com, even american conservative and their talk to they talk about an a, some kind of negotiated and what is there to negotiate, i mean, rush has already made it clear what it wants to have happen. and until the west

reacts to that, i don't understand what these negotiations are all about. and oh, by the way, i cease fire. well, why would brush you agree, agree to a ceasefire? so nato can build up ukraine again, and they do in 5 years from now. i mean, on the, you know, you know, one of the, all 3 of you, you know, it really disappoints me. is that a lot of smart people over the last year of said really stupid things. i expected more from them. christopher, go ahead. now i would, i would say that you're absolutely correct. and not only that, but it putin has been, and the russian government and leverage have been saying this for, for years and years. nobody's been listening. russia's security concerns have been at the forefront of all of their major speeches of all their diplomatic overtures. and it hasn't been acted upon. and the reason is that the u. s. and nato are not really concerned. and not really in any way really to give even an inch to the russians because that's not part of the war machines plan. because you need to have

the enemy, you need to have, and russia is no longer communist. russia is no longer the soviet union, but you see how they reproduce this language. now they reproduce it because they need that enemy because their stockholders in these a big military industrial complex, you know, corporations, they need it, they need it because they need to make more armaments. more missiles were planes, more ships, whatever they need. so i think ultimately when you're looking at this, what negotiation, what's settlement, what ceasefire can come from a conflict where one site does not respect the national security interest of the other side, nor it's overtures in saying, we don't want a belligerent terry alliance at our border that is a relic of the cold work when we disbanded the other part of that military alliance . you know, the one in opposition to it. it doesn't make sense. there can be no negotiation. no settlement of this current crisis, unless the, the u. s. and nato and the european partners take seriously russia's security concerns, an advocate for a ukraine that won't join nato,

that will be neutral. and that won't be a breeding ground for all of the things that are being concocted in washington and in brussels and in the halls of power in the wes english under here. if, if we're going to put our money on annually to bear bach, i think we're all in really big trouble. okay. is on that was interesting. a go to a new cycles ago, the former vice president of the united states pence was on fox news. and he referred to russia as the soviet union, and that's just the problem. they keep saying. they still think in that paradigm, they think in a cold war paradigm here. and i could tell you living here for a quarter of century, they have dispensed with that paradigm. completely, it's the west that continues to embrace it. go ahead in paris. working there is one continuing to do with the soviet union. is that the current version not, not yours in the us? there aren't a gym and they can, they don't. she did not like the safety of a unipolar world,

and the soviet union was against it too. and that's what made it popular in the rest of the world to some extent. and i think is also what makes russia popular in the us of the world to some extent, because they did the lead of the world of the global south against is unipolar world is american. the gym on ages, american exceptionalism, etc, etc. so i think that's in depth, and there is a continued de haley, the snow continued to as well. the socioeconomic of the political system is concerned. but there's this mentality which i, i must say, please. the russians well, is that the project is a jim american, a germany with the european. so the western european at least embrace. but then of course that's they're taking is the, the main, the main continuity, if you wish, and demand he's on for this intense hostility to her show that we have in the west . well, of it, there's other, another continuity, it's western had gemini, that has not changed here at ted o and looking at what's coming out of the administration in the, in, from our un nato smelted berg. i mean, they're sending out a really

a wide array of messages. there's no more ammunition, we don't know how much more aid we can give. but then there are biden is saying, as long as it takes still, and it seems to me that there's the messaging is getting kind of sloppy on their part because it's, it's the, the, the, that the narrative is beginning to crack your thoughts. go ahead. ted. absolutely. agree, peter, i think there's a note of desperation creeping into the messaging, quite frankly. but in nato we're dealing with something that shouldn't have existed one minute longer than the soviet union. it's never had a purpose after the end of the soviet union never will have a purpose. everything they try and come up with is frankly a nonsense. there's never been consensus within a to agree before the recent conflict in russia with the enemy. and even now they haven't officially placed russia in their or documents and the enemy. and there's a good reason for that because frankly, there is still some, some reasonable,

you know, stream thinking people in europe. i wish i could say the same about washington right now. this whole situation is one of the websites making. obviously, nato keeps searching for a reason or natal reminds me in that sense of the scientists, us nuclear, laborin tories, who says the 1st discovery of nuclear winter back in the mid eighties, when global arsenals that build down from sort of the 70000 nuclear weapons down to the sort of mid below, teens of thousands of nuclear weapons decided to sort of put up with nuclear winter back in the eighty's because they still had a lot they could do and still maintain their pensions. these days, the threat from nuclear winter to the nuclear establishment, the nuclear weapons mafia, the big numer cartel is i like to call it. and that manufacturers government departed. everyone involved. is that substantial?

because we can't afford to have tens of thousands of nuclear weapons around. we can't afford to have tens of hundreds and nuclear weapons around because we're this close to the apocalypse. even there's nothing in the brain. and in that sense, those, you know, the los alamos national laboratory scientists are preserving their own careers. yeah. the same way that they know and it's infrastructure without a revenue exists that that's the biggest problem very, you've already kind of touched upon it, but you know, again, you know, the, the juxtaposition could not be more clear. i mean, nato is a business model. i mean it's, it's about generating budgets for expenditures, okay. on, on weapons that don't necessarily would have to work actually up again. but if you get a budget to get the next year's budget bigger than the one before, i mean, it's all about driving out there. it's preservation and wasting other people's

money. okay. because i don't think the americans are going to send their big tanks there. you know why? because they'll be destroyed immediately after they cross the border. and they know that okay, but you know, if you're to promise out 50 tags and you gotta order 50 more tanks, hey, everybody understand how this works. go ahead, christopher. i have to agree and actually was known chomsky years ago who said that the only reason for nato survival afterwards was really to maintain and control world energy supplies. and so you look at all the words, don't forget, nato was involved in the overthrow of the government. the wal mart, gadhafi and libya actively involved in destroying that country. actively involved on the ground with the us effort. and i've got a son providing support as part of coalitions for other campaigns of securing shipping lanes and things like that, against the quote unquote pirates and who knows what. so i think ultimately bear their purpose. and the way i see it is similar to how others have seen it,

which is as a, as an imperialist arm. it's sort of the imperialist armed forces of disa, unipolar and hedge, a monic of global structure. so when you look at it in that sense, you understand that as it continues to expand and don't forget, it's the only in europe. columbia is of quote, unquote, global partner of nato, dave der, trying to bring in other partners in, for example, oceania. so you're looking at this and you're saying this really is the global reach of well i haven't met christopher and was, isn't it really obvious to you? is that what the, what didn't these mandarins, the west they want to do? they wanted, they want to short circuit the united nations. they want to have their own global coalition of the willing and, and nato doesn't want to have any or the united states. want to have any restraints put on it here. i think that's very much part of it, and i also agree you're absolutely right all a great deal that is directed at energy here, that we're almost out of time here. and can, you know, as far as what a guy is out,

you want to jump in, go ahead. what i just wanted to say that if i look at the peace movement in the west, in the fan, so even germany, et cetera. a belgium. i mean though, the 1st of all condemn, of course, the russian intervention and potential between slows et cetera. then they turn down to some extent they to, but they never said what hush, i should do latoya security. and so most important in my view for the security of the ocean people who live in the can. i mean ito, we are to believe that the people in dumbass and he may actually want to be canyon under the present king and his him and have been forced to be russian by which includes which i think is totally unbelievable. as we have to realize that these people should have rights. why should you chain, the height of independence in the soviet union be sacrosanct that the height of said that there were some of the russian people who have been putting a cane at the time of the soviets, limitation of no heights whatsoever uses and make any sense and as something which

he stood in your bay of so called anti war movements. why a pair? apparently i've here a rally. i think you're making reference to the united states. if, if you, if you're against, are the more than your opponent puppet in your a white supremacist but tad, it, united states in nato countries are supporting, essentially, and least nazi elements in care of that. no one wants to talk about on the west. 3rd to we have 20 seconds. go ahead and head. okay, i'm here for 20 seconds worth of fun here. let's think what the west could do to make a difference in the, in the war in ukraine right now. is there something of value that nato has in europe that it could give away in return for, say, negotiations commencing between russia and ukraine for the settlement. we have to think really hard about this, but if it were me, i'd be looking at the nuclear gravity. bombs with us, maintains, in europe for no good reason. ok, that's and hang on a very depressing point. thank you. how to write a gentleman and that's all the time we have. i want to thank my guest,

intense media, paris and, and bear shar and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at our dc unix time. remember, cross like with in time retention. and i'm here to plead with you, whatever you do, do not watch my, your shell seriously. why watch something that's so different. my little opinions that you won't get anywhere else. look of it please. if you have the state department, the cia weapons makers, multi $1000000000.00 corporations, choose your facts for you. go ahead. i change and whatever you do. don't watch my show, stay mainstream because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called direct impact, but again, you probably don't want to watch it because it might just change the wing thing.

i am, my name is frank richardson, philadelphia got in the movement and age 13 going on 14. we are violent towards those people because we believe that word is raised. we were here 1st and this is our country being part of that movement. i got a sense of power. when i felt powerless, we got attention when i felt invisible and accepted when i talked to level life after, hey, is an organization that was founded by for a skinhead neo nazi white supremacist in the u. s. in canada. and they found each other and they knew that they wanted to help other guys get out. is 2 parts to getting out of a violent extreme. this with the 1st part of disengagement, which is where you leave the social group. and then the next part is d. radicalization where belief systems ology are removed. it was very impactful. when someone finally came along with no fear, no judgement,

you heard my story did nothing to challenge it. validate with russia and china criticized the west for attempting to monopolize security at the expense of other nations. the un security council, a path to peace school. you, craig, once go into the west and you crate that it would with phone the key word to invade the most open break away region of trans nice trip by russia paints cape is. it's been station for more than 3 decades. and in an interview going on the grounds were now the investigative journalist seymour hersh, breaks down the alleged to us from a touch up in north stream pipeline, which he recently exposed in a bomb shell report. it's been denied by washington. that's the rationale for the

mission.