they chose the middle east, one i believe, oil and 2, i believe to make the middle east unstable. there are certain people who like to control through fear. and if you make to the middle east, unstable, and then you, you keep pushing the narrative terrace roof. i believe this is a way that they're able to control the people with fear and to be able to have the opportunity to invade other countries. and, and do you think though, do you think that, you know, you said the oil was so important for going into iraq, d ready thing oil. was that important for going and know in the year 2000 there were 7 countries who did not join the u. s a central bank and look, 2001 afghan, then 2003, iraq,

2011, libya and syria. then off of that. yeah. he just, you know, just makes me think that is a motive for invading a country. you mentioned these countries here who essentially got invaded over the past 20 odd years. general wesley clark, near 4 star general that he, he came out, he actually started talking publicly about this didn't. he said i, i came up, a commander came into my office one day through a stack of papers on my table and said, we're going to be invading 5 countries and 7 years or something like that, wasn't it? right? so, you know the story as well. i briefly but it's interesting for me because 911 happened. we knew it was osama bin laden and al qaeda in afghanistan. we started in afghanistan, 2001, and then we switch to iraq. that's a big question that i believe americans,

citizens who live in nato allied countries. you know, we need to start asking questions. why was our social coverage all the anniversary throughout the day and beyond? here on our t international, we can find more details on the human and the economy. cost of the attack on iraq, on our website. archie bunker ah fini level is off next on cost. so we'll be back here in the see do that, the hope you'll join us then. ah ah

ah, ah hello in welcome to cross top where all things are considered i'm funeral about is ending the conflict in ukraine on the agenda. maybe china has offered a proposal, it appears that you k, france, and germany are sounding out the zalinski regime on a proposal of their own. all will come to nothing if russia's interests are not respected. ah. to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess, martin jane marrakech. he's an award winning journalist and commentator. and in budapest we have george semi while he's a podcast or at the goggle,

which can be found on youtube and locals, or a gentleman crossed up rules and effect. that means you can jump any time you want . and i always appreciate it. i start out with george in budapest, georgia, you know, is peace in the air. i mean, there piece proposals coming out now that you know, the chinese have come, come out with the 12 point program. what's coming out of the u. k. france and germany is a bit unclear, but it is being, it's making the rounds that there are sounding out as i said in my introduction as zalinski regime on how to move forward. i think there's some kind of reckoning going on here, but it doesn't mean it's going to end. well, hear your thoughts on, on both proposals, other proposals or proposals which george? well, i think i did give away the punchline in a moment. i'm the striking thing about that report from the wall street journal about this you k francis germany proposal is that there is not one sentence, not one word about russia's security concerns to talk about. well

what, what, what can we do to provide some security for ukraine? and how do we mount and only offensive by zalinski so that he can be put in a stronger position. well, that, that go she, asians, and can we liberate all of a dumbass? leave me a for a later date. there's nothing, not one word about what this conflict has been all about. why russia launched this last year, which is russia security concerns, and there isn't, i have no idea of isn't that, you know now was this because of the lease report as it will say journal, was it because of the leaders of the nato allies. but as long as they don't consider roches problems or issues, russia has been raising for many years about nato expansion. and about

guarantees that have some kind of marriage, not just something that well, we'll say something today, and then we'll change our minds more then. and there isn't going to be any kind of a piece negotiations. the chinese proposals were interesting and well, largely displaced by nato countries are interesting. that's the one with, was the lensky himself knows the landscape, i think, is trying to. i think that he can chime, he's away anywhere and that he can get a meeting with. and then you can persuade you to come over to his side. otherwise. so i don't think to be honest, the chinese proposals are going to go anywhere either. you know, i guess if you would need some script writers from, from washington and want to pull that rabbit martin this stay with the chinese plan because they, i agree with george here part of it. and i'm going to read part of it here. country

should quote, prevent block confrontation. i think we know that that's a reference to a nato and work towards building quote, a balance effective and sustainable european security architecture. that's exactly what george was talking about barn. yeah, i think the real problem here is even though western elise, beginning to realize that they need to start looking at a solution for ukraine. they're taking so long about stepping in this direction. you know, you talk about the script writers and ski, i think we need to script writers with dumb and dumber or c. call for sure. so macro, because the kind of statements that are coming from these comes are just incredible . absolutely astounding. i mean, how, turn death of the situation can you be? it seems that both of these slater's can agree on one thing they want. now

a deadline, they want something set in progress for peace talk. so they seem to agree on a fundamental position which we haven't had before. the news is so landscape is the problem. that's what they've agreed on bus reading in between the lines just so this guy isn't moving in direction. we need to move in. but you talk about adult landscape problems. what i think is interesting is that the west france and germany, they have their own problems. and what we're witnessing now is a shift towards this narrative of we need to get a piece process moving and moving quite quickly because macro and show. so thinking about their own political back thinking about their own camps and how much longer the situation go on for because you have now a key date coming up, which is 2024. that seems like a long way away. but the binding comes recognize i stood from the summer onwards. he's gonna have to start campaigning, even going to places like flint,

which he's afraid of country also supporting to station front. and he's gonna have to explain to humble americans who are struggling to eat or even survive. why he hasn't pumped hundreds of billions of dollars into job's health care roads, hospitals, instead of funding a war in a country which they can't find a map of the world. so you've got this dichotomy of logic going on, i think between cholenski on the west and europe, lyric, the europeans look at the problem slightly differently from mac, kronos shows, but i mean schultz is so tuned. death he's so out of touch realities. he just recently visited a brazilian solamerica brit countries o king, and he could stir up some sort of antagonism against russia from those countries. i mean, what come is this guy own, you know, obviously that backfired spec? well, you know, if it, let me go to your chair right now, but i, you know, we were talking about peace proposals and because as it was recorded or reported by the journal that the, the, the british,

the french and the germans are sounding out zalinski. but i mean like, buying was in, in camps. okay. and in warsaw with some of the most bombastic language that we've heard from a long time, from a man that just can't really deliver it anymore. um, you know, so who cares what the hell reveal? leaders have to say, i mean it's so interesting is the one of the biggest loser and all this is europe. i mean, you know, you have still traveling around the world while the americans alleged by seymour hersh, destroy his pride, his pride and joy of a fueling german economy. thus the journey european economy. i have to agree with mark, it is a bit delusional, but really, who cares what piece proposals come out of western capital? it has to come out of washington. don't know exactly right, and this is what, what is so astonishing. and it's particularly when it comes to germany that joe, the economic powerhouse they, you know, literally their traffic wonder,

which is their pride and joy that they become this great. a global economic hour is being jeopardized openly contemptuous. they buy the united states and you have to wonder about the german public everything, you know, even a stand for this, or you that tolerate, essentially being relegated to a kind of a 2nd class status as a, as an economic power a seemingly they are. and what's interesting about the, you know, what i mean, you just said that the americans are the ones who are the driving force folders. and as long as they can ignore every piece proposal, they can go on a whipping out their checkbook. and this is another $10000000000.00, and then they can ignore all of the proposals coming out of your ability to read, doesn't matter what shows my wrong or what else. and, you know, not one to carry out. there is if the british decide to join forces with the french and the germans, and that's why i thought, well then maybe something interesting here. when i, when i saw the headlight,

the british now joined the french germans because i think the americans and might be isolated. but as i said earlier, i, you know, i don't think there's anything here that would be of any interest, but the americans could pull the plug them. so let's get any time in terms of the all this talk about, well, we go, you know, we, you know, we, we, everything is, depends on zalinski and, you know, we, you know, he's, he's war and we don't know. nothing depends on zillow and everything depends on washington. because it's washington just simply has given him an open checkbook in martin, in the following on what georgia said there. i mean, this isn't case of moral hazard. i mean, and he has no inkling until a nation whatsoever to change what's going on now. i mean, look, as you said, when buying goes on the campaign, you know, he's going to be asking, why are you paying the pensions of ukrainians? why are you paying for their health care? why are you paying for everything else? i mean, we, everyone knows this incident that happened in ohio. i mean, the stark contrast. there is a parent for all to see. so i,

i don't see zalinski. i mean if it's not, you know, nothing about the wednesday without the wednesday. i don't think he has any reason to change his behavior right now. the checks ok. continue to come in. exactly. and i think that's through the key point. i'm george's point, this is a fascinating one. you know, there is no real impetus yet, but it could be and i think it's some pretty fascinating. but the, when you boil down the essence of what macro and she's saying is less k, which it could be. we could be consistent, we could be forgiven for making a mockery of creating liberty of it because it is an heiress in the respect that the french and germans are st. resent it. look, we need you to move towards some sort pistols with russia. and so encourage you to do that. what we're proposing to do is give you a whole ton load more of guns and cache them, whatever you need. because that would actually help you. and then also just your,

but your viewers understand essentially everything up to nato membership. so some kind of security arrangement, a lot more cast in a lot more weapons. okay, so martin and lindsey except that, but i would, the russian got to talk to the russians and that's the, that's is what makes it a mockery of everything. keep going more. yeah, i think i've been, we've been brushed up of the equation, but i don't think that will last too long. i think it may be media doing the media player big role here. but for the moment, you know, it's a real incentive. what i think could happen and, and i think some certain corners of someone list of alluded to this is i think, a certain point that relationship between europe is going to run into difficult run and runs a real forces. and so already happening, you can see the that there was some indications of this already. but i think the,

at a certain point they do, i feel quite wrong because i think the europeans are in a very strong position, because finally it will be short. so now be micron, who can actually say to lensky? look without an off of this, if you don't play along and take our proposal seriously, we may well actually cut the funding to you, we might actually reduce, learn to counter your point. if shields goes rogue, well they always have and only to better buck in washington. well, what will promote regime change in germany? georgia? i'm not crazy. they could do that george, though they absolutely will do that. i mean, the, the americans have been very, very wary about shore. so the beginning, you know, as, as this talk about many times before, the americans have never trusted. the german social democrats going back to the 1950s through the, the seventy's with billy brown's of hell, which went through to the, to thousands with gaff schroeder. they just don't like the social democrats and

they would love to see the back of shoals. and you know, we saw how contemptuously they treated trolls. so lena babcock is very much the person they have in mind. call him down like george will have to go to a hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on real estate with our team. ah ah! welcome back to cross. not all things are considered on peter. well, this is the home addition to remind you, we're discussing some real lives. ah, let's go back to martin america learning attorney interesting. the, the, the media is blood with allegations that china has already been or may start

supplying arms to show russia. i see no indication the russian needs arms, but ok, these are the media stories. are also this ridiculous talk about russia and china getting closer together. is it that suddenly appeared to some people? this is something that's been going on for very long time, and i find it really astounding mainstream you. oh my goodness, you know, they're very much asleep at the wheel here. ok. i did it in one more thing here. i think it was in munich. and the chinese foreign minister, he was challenged by our old favorite child joseph brow. the foreign policies are on the european union. and he said, you know, it's, we crossing one of the red lines of china supplied arms to, to russia. and he said, when you supply a pharmacy ukraine, so what is the difference? he said, a very big difference and apparently ran for the door,

didn't answer what that differences mark. well, these anything remarkable about worldly does not replying to joseph burrow. so question, see, she's been union circle foreign policy. i think this is a major story. i mean, i hate to keep how much media because i'm a journalist, but i do think it's a me to start. i think this is a real story about how selective western media is when it touches china. you know, it just roots out all the new, susan sticks of the cliches from the beginning. it isn't really a story at all, but china is in space with russia and getting involved in the arms race which has been created by the west from just just a few weeks ago. if you remember, the panic we experienced over tanks. thanks for the new subject. and tanks the mercantile german times leopold 2 tanks of 2 tanks and the british challenge of things is all become a big story which we haven't heard about much in the last few weeks because no one believes it. no one believes them will ever get round descending. abrams and one

saying it must be dos. what numbers you talking about? i started taking something stupid. i mean, i don't really make any sense. i think china is a media story, i think has been distorted like other tea stories which have been secured and distorted, to sit to fit a certain narrative. the main one for me is the panic that we've seen between biden's come and landscape just a few years ago. soleski was in washington. what was it doing there? well, i think it was being brief, bye bye to telling him to get move on to certain things. i don't think it to that very seriously. it seemed the bible was affected by this and felt the need to send a few key officials just landscape. and namely, burns c, i a director to a firm a point which took a credit. and this really pains me submit this. the washington post actually did report. they did actually write in a rather new and hybrid article, which probably few people read. they actually didn't make the point the,

the burden administration is delivering. the message is landscape, which is that you haven't got too much time. and the reason why you haven't got too much time to go ahead and achieve any other gains of the american. so to make on the battlefield is because i believe the republicans in america are given by an a coded message that you are spending spree now with, with, with ukraine. but it can't continue. we're not saying we're going to cut, it won't agree to the huge amounts that we signed off before. now we're the house and so binding has transmitted this message to the graders. and he's basically said, look, you've gone to some of the end of summer because then things start getting really difficult. you're going through kids and a phenomenal, right? i mean, this is a record breaking. you know, this is military records being broken share the amount of kid that he goes for is just unbelievable. no one can, no one knows where it goes, where ends up. but i mean, it's not clear. it's even being used on the front. ok. it's

a clear ok with a ga, ga, ga mean the. ringback agent, martin makes some very smart point here, but the rhetoric is not changing the benefit of doubling down on the rhetoric, but then we have all this background stuff, you know, you know, time is running out. you have to be, we have to make a case, you know, that can go that can exist side by side for too much longer. george? no, i, i do think that the americans, as always, i hedging their bets, you know, they're, they're talking out of both sides of them out. so you have on the one, and you have biden doing the whole gung ho thing in the wall. so and, and then you have the, the lead the stories for the washington post that way. if this turns out, well, hey, it was all because we, we, we, how often we show who didn't, what's was it, things don't, don't know. well, we can blame it on zillow and see where we jones and, and see that, you know, you need to get off work. so it's something for everyone americans always do. this

is always the sort of the hard liners on the soft line. and then, you know, you take your pick depending on how it works. but going back to your point about china, or instantly, the friendship between russia and china, you know, goes back to the, the, the, the yeltsin era. i mean that's, that's when really they, it began and it was obviously an expression that on a russian weakness vulnerability they needed to find that ally. this is being growing in strength the year of the year. now some people has woken up to this and say, well look, several russia, china, a very close. we need to split them up or what have you going to split the problem in neither side as the slightest interest? well, i bet it join forces with the americans against the chinese, you know, that's and that's a really good idea. well, that's a great strategy. and on top of it, martin with news reports that more advisors are going to taiwan. and so

blink and wants to challenge his chinese counterpart about rules based order and all this and the chinese have to say, why are you putting more advisors technicians, whatever. where you want to use on taiwan, which you'd, the united states recognize as part of china. ok, so why would the chinese have any interest in changing course right now when they see on their flag table, ryan are rattling and that's something they take very seriously mark. yeah, and i think that chinese are probably more than the well, the most countries of such that brother unsafe re mentions of obama when referring to joe biden, which applies totally to biden's foreign policy initiatives since to he office. you know, don't underestimate your binds ability to slip on top racing. of course, you know, name one foreign policy initiative. the biden can actually say nails done good here

. you my own who really, ne pipelines actually and a lot of voters will resume a lot of them will, will, will connect with that because showing the, the american economy that created growth that created jobs. and i get the longer term when we look at the foreign policy layout, you know, wherever boyd and goes, he usually messes things up, you know? and i wonder whether the tie one story is really made a distraction to shift the media narrative now away from ukraine. from august, september, october onwards, where things are gonna get really tough in ukraine when these tanks, even if they arrives, you know, they're not gonna make any real difference. i mean, if you're into an institution now and you're talking to your general generals surely must be planning the spring offensive. because as an option to that was a gap that, you know, and i wrote about it from western media who, you know, military people, journalists, are much better informed than i am talking about

a spring offensive. and so i think this is really spooking, and you know, he's go account down now from the summer onwards to being re elected under them. that time is not on his side, you know, and when, when the stories turn against him in ukraine, i think they will be looking for a new story on the song policy circuit. and china and taiwan seems to be right, particularly when britain is helping him. so much on mission to say it or, or maybe we'll have another spat, 2 balloons. who knows? i'm sure that that was another one of those interesting came roaring. yeah, we have been fascinated in george. so you don't have talked about this on our podcast. if it really was democrat versus republican, if it was really conservative versus liberal in one to win. oh, it's still, it's fine, it's war, it's going badly. it's very, very expensive. and i'm you and i have been bewildered by this forever. okay. because it is biden's war, he has a tendency to, you know,

what with foreign policy. it's a no brainer, but it shows, but it really shows mostly the current and away. and you can see the unified whole, the of the unit party, the war party, and the military industrial complex. their interest is beyond politics. go ahead, george. in the 8 this. exactly right. the republicans in is i have an open goal and they, and they didn't do it seem to be able to just take the whole, you know, it's there right. this is not it just not get over the line. yeah. it's quite extraordinary because we know that had it been the other way around, and trump for president the list was going on in ukraine, the democrats will be saying this is trump's law. this is a but instead, you know, the republicans are kind of, you know, all over the place. and that's because they have this act of this, the attitude toward russia. then they said they simply, you know, to them, you know, even though they dislike buying the, you know, they buy them,

then everybody, somehow rushes to lean bottom into evil. and the best that they can come up with. well, biden should have sent the weaponry sooner. you should have done more earlier. these are the top that's, that's why russian waited by was we as a sort of how can we come up with the how to answer the question. yeah it's, it's fine. so he was to, we should make clear to whatever it is he was supposed to make clear to prove it. and that's it. and that's why i think republicans will fail to exploit because as, as martin said, yeah, i mean, things could really blow up in a bind in space. and in way electrically he should be punished. the republicans are just simply go to bundle it ok, but let me know one minute left here. and the, even though i, the republicans will continue to go along with bites of ukraine policy. i don't think that's going to be the case in europe because we just have these massive protests in berlin over the last new cycle there. it's more than rhetoric. this is

a, this is every day live life in germany wasn't supposed to cost you when it comes to eggs and, and cappuccinos and going out in the evening. now it is last 45 seconds to yeah, life is getting tougher and it takes a while. so the average man street to understand the dynamics of a huge issue, the current $100.00 effects is aging. those just gone through the roof 34 times in the u. k. for example, i've mentioned before in the u. k, we have pension, now freezing to death apartments, germany dummies, economy. i think this week it was economist said, it is now officially in recession and a lot of german companies and outs trucking to america to set up companies that just to stay in the game. but, you know, i don't think it come to europe is going to be a problem soon or not sure, i mean, these people cannot hang on so much longer. and i think micron shows us quite sensitive to that. they do understand that the time is running out for them. but i

think also, i wonder, we talked about republicans in america unbundle. i wonder um if the nightmare nerve, which i bought a leading up to presidential elections is that it becomes a one issue price which will be a try. okay. then that, that's a question for another program we've run out of time or when it gets america in budapest, when i think our viewers are watching us here at ortiz, the next time, remember, crossed up rolls. ah ah

ah ah ah hey guys this i just bought a boat to intimidation mall, the general elections in nigeria as a country counselor, the status of the is set for a freshman scheduled on monday. multiple drugs are reported in several euclidian regions on monday. as our correspondent follows the bottles of brush and artillery in the dawn, while jovan johnson are so trying to convince prime ministers in the rendered movie to side with the west against russia, the indian leader says new delhi is ready to contribute to any.