i felt attention when i felt invisible and accepted when i felt lovable. life after hay is an organization that was founded by poor skinheads not see white supremacist in the u. s. in canada. and they found each other and they knew that they wanted to help other guys get out was 2 parts to getting out of a violent extreme was the 1st part of disengagement which is where you leave the social group. and then the next part is d. radicalization work belief systems audiology are removed. it was very impactful. when someone finally came along with no fear, no judgement, you heard my story did nothing to challenge it. validate with

hello in welcome to cross talk. we're all things considered, i'm funeral about is ending the conflict in ukraine on the agenda. maybe china has offered a proposal. it appears the u. k. france and germany are sounding out zalinski regime on a proposal of their own. all will come to nothing. if russia's interests are not respected, ah, to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess, martin j america. she's an award winning journalist and commentator. and in budapest we have george semi while he's a podcast or at the goggle, which can be found on youtube and locals, or a gentleman crossed up rules. in fact, that means you can jump any time you want, and i always appreciate it. i start out with george in budapest, georgia, you know,

is peace in the air. i mean, there piece proposals coming out now that the chinese have come, come out with a 12 point program. what's coming out of the u. k. france and germany is a bit unclear, but it is being, it's making the rounds that they're sounding out. as i said in my introduction as zalinski regime on how to move forward. i think there's some kind of reckoning going on here, but it doesn't mean it's going to end well, hear your thoughts on both proposals, other proposals or proposals, which george, when i did give away the punchline in a moment, leave the striking thing about that report from the wall street journal about this you k for germany, proposal is that there is no one sentence, not one word about russia's security concerns to talk about. wow. what can we do to provide some security for ukraine?

and how do we mount a early offensive by zelinski so that he can be put in a stronger position, negotiations? and can we liberate all of the dumb and crimea, or should we just have to settle down, leave me a for a later date. there's nothing, not one word about what the conflict has been all about. why russia launched this last year, which is russia security concerns and there isn't, i have no idea of it now. was this because of the police report as it will say journal? was it because of the leaders of the nato allies, but as long as they don't consider rushes problems or issues, russia has been raising for many years about nato expansion and about guarantees that have some kind of marriage, not just thing that well will say something today and then we'll change our minds

tomorrow, and then there isn't going to be any kind of peace negotiations. the chinese proposals were interesting and well, largely dismissed by the nato countries are interesting. one lesson was the landscape himself knows the latest, i think, is trying to think that he can charm his way anywhere and that he can get a meeting with paying american before things come over the side. otherwise, i don't think to be honest that the chinese proposals are going to go anywhere either. you know, i guess you would need some script writers from, from washington in london to pull that rabbit. is martin this stay with the chinese plan because i agree with george here, part of it and i'm going to read part of it here. country should quote, prevent block confrontation. i think we know that that's a reference to

a nato and work towards building quote, a balance effective and sustainable european security architecture. that's exactly what george was talking about barn. yeah, i think the real problem here is, even though western elise are beginning to realize that they need to start looking at a solution for ukraine. they're taking so long about stepping in this direction. you know, you talk about the script writers. so it's an entity i think we need to script writers with dumb and dumber or c. call for show macro. because the kinds of statements that are coming from these comes are just incredible. absolutely astounding. i mean, how turn death of the situation. can you be, it seems that both of these slater's can agree on one thing they want. now, a deadline, they want something set in progress for peace talk. so they seem to agree

fundamental position, which we haven't had before. the news is so lensky is the problem. that's what they've agreed on bus rating in between the line just of this guy isn't moving and direction. we need to move in a you talk about a thought. so landscape problems. what i think is interesting is that the west france and germany, they have their own problems. and what we're witnessing now is a shift towards this narrative of we need to get a piece process moving and moving quite quickly because macro and show. so thinking about their own school, thinking about their own comes and how much longer the situation go on for because you have now a key dates coming up, which is 2024. that seems like a long way away. but the binding camp is recognized from the summer onwards. he's going to have to start campaigning, even going to places like flint, where she's afraid of catchy, also supporting decisions from. and he's going to explain to humble americans who

were struggling to eat or even survive. why he hasn't pumped hundreds of billions of dollars into jobs of rose hospitals instead of funding a war in a country which they can't find a map of the world. so you've got this dichotomy of logic going on, i think, between landscape and the west and europe. the pins look at the problem slightly differently from macro and shows, but i mean show says so tone. death is so out of touch. reality is it just recently visited brazil bridge countries. ok. they can stir up some sort when taken ism, against russia from those countries. i mean, what time is this going on? you know, obviously that back for expect, that, you know, is going to go to georgia right now. but, you know, we're talking about peace proposes and because we record reported by the journal that the, the british, the french and the germans are sounding out lensky. but i mean, look, buying was in, in care. okay. the end in warsaw with some of the most bombastic language that

we've heard from a long time, from a man that just can't really deliver it any more than you know, so who cares what the hell being leaders have to say. i mean, it's so interesting is that one of the biggest loser to know this is europe. i mean, you have still traveling around the world while the americans alleged by seymour hersh, destroy his pride, his pride and joy of a fueling german economy plus the european economy. i have to agree with martin, it is a bit delusional, but really, who cares what piece proposals come out of western capital? it has to come out of washington. don't know exactly right, and this is what, what is so astonishing, and particularly when it comes to germany, germany, the economic powerhouse a, which is their pride and joy that they become this great. a global economic hour is being jeopardized openly contemptuous. they buy the united states and you have to

wonder about the german public everything, you know, even a stand for this are you going to tolerate, essentially being relegated to kind of a 2nd class status as a, as an economic power a seemingly they are. and what's interesting about the, you know, what i mean, you just said that the americans are the ones who are the driving force folders. and as long as they can ignore every piece proposal, they can go on a whipping out their checkbook. and this is another $10000000000.00, and then they can ignore all of the proposals coming out of your ability to read doesn't matter what shows micron or what else are. and now we're going to carry out there is if the british decide to join forces with the french and the germans. and that's why i thought, well then maybe something interesting here. when i, when i saw the headlight, the british of now joined the french germans because i think the americans and might be isolated. but as i said,

i don't think there's anything here that would be of any interest, but it was the americans could pull the plug to, let's get any time of testing so that all this talk about, well, we know, you know, we, you know, we, we, everything is, depends on zelinski and, you know, we, you know, he says warren, we know no, nothing depends on zalinski. everything depends on washington because it's washington is just simply as given as open checkbook in martin. and it's in the following on what georgia said there. i mean, this is a case of moral hazard. i mean, yeah, zalinski has no inkling until a nation whatsoever to change what's going on. now. i mean, look, as you said, when buying goes on the campaign, you know, he's going to be asking, why are you paying the pensions of ukrainians? why are you paying for their health care? why are you paying for everything else? i mean, we, we, everyone knows this incident that happened in ohio. i mean, the stark contrast. there is a parent for all to see. so i, i don't see zalinski. i mean, if it's all, you know, nothing about that. lindsey without zelinski. i don't think he has any reason to

change his behavior right now. the checks. okay. continue to come in. exactly. and i think that's really the key point. i'm george's point, this is a fascinating mom. you know, there is no real impetus yet, but it could be, and i think it some pretty fascinating that the, when you boil down the essence, what micron and shoots are saying to slips which it could be we could because we could be forgiven for making mockery of pope creating levity of it because it is an heiress in the respect that the french and germans of science landscape. look, we need you to move towards a, some sort pistols with russia and to encourage you to do that. what we're proposing to do is give you a whole ton load more of guns and ammo and cache, and whatever you need. because that would actually help you. and also describe what your viewers understand. essentially, everything up to nato membership,

some kind of security arrangement, a lot more cast and a lot more weapons. ok, so martin, so a zalinski except that, but why would the russians, except i got to talk to the russians and that's the, that's what makes it a mockery of everything. keep going market. i think i've been, we've been airbrushed out of the equation, but i don't think that will last too long. i think it may be media to in that media plays a big role here. but for the moment, you know, and then ski as no real incentive. when i think could happen and, and, and i think some certain corners of such, some melissa, alluded to this is, i think, at a certain point that relationship between zelinski on europe is going to run into difficult, on route to run, to rough horses. and it's already happened, you can see the there are some indications of this already. but i think the, at a certain point, they do, i see a quite wrong page. i think the europeans are in a very strong position because finally it will be shown. so they'll be macro on who

can actually say to, to lensky. look, we've got enough of this. if you don't play along and take our proposal seriously. we may, will actually cut the funding to you. we might actually reduce the counter. your point in shield goes ro, but they always have and only to better buck and washington will, will promote to regime change in germany, georgia. i'm not crazy. they could do that george. now they absolutely will do that . i mean, the, the americans of been very, very wary about sure. so the beginning, you know, as, as this talk about many times before, the americans have never trusted. the german social democrats going back to the 1950s through the seventy's with billy brown's and how much went through to the, to thousands with gaps, rhoda. they just don't like the social democratic and they would love to see the back of shoals. and you know, we saw how contemptuously they treated trolls. so i'm really in a bad book is very much the bus and they have in mind and i towards we'll have to

go to a hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on real new state. ah, ah, who is the aggression today? i'm authorizing the additional strong sanctions today. russia is the country with the most sanctions imposed against it. and um, but as constantly growing figure, which of the problem was the question, as we speak on the, when you're sitting in the morning the we're pushing, we're banding all in ports of russian oil and gas, new g. i g with joe by imposing these sanctions on russia has destroyed the american economy. so there's your boomerang.

ah ah, well, the magic cross not were all things are considered on peter labelle. this is the home addition to remind you. we're discussing some real. ah, let's go back to martin america. learning are truly interesting. the, the, the medias of blood with allegations that china has already been or may start supplying arms to, to russia. i see no indication the russian needs arms, but okay, these are the media stories. i'm also this ridiculous talk about russia in china getting closer together. is it that suddenly appeared to some people? this is something that's been going on for a very long time. i find it really astounding mainstream you. oh, my goodness,

you know, they're very much asleep at the wheel here. okay. and one more thing here. i think it was in munich, the chinese foreign minister. he was challenged by our old favorites. joseph bro, the foreign policies are of the european union. and he said, you know, it re crossing, one of the red lines of china supplied army russia and he said, but you supply of thermos be great. so what is the difference? he said, a very big difference and apparently ran for the door, didn't answer what that differences. mark. one of these, anything remarkable about world leaders not replying to joseph girls questions. and she's been indian circle foreign policy. i think this is a major story. i mean, i hate to keep going to me because i'm a journalist, but i do think it's me to start. i think this is a real story about how selective western media is when it touches china. you know,

it just roots out all the nuances and sticks of the cliches from the beginning. it isn't really a story at all. the china is getting in bed with russia and getting involved in the arms race, which has been created by the west from just just a few weeks ago. if you remember the panic we experience over tanks. thanks for the new subject and tanks, american tanks and german times leopold 2 tanks. so the 2 tanks on the, on the british challenge of things is all become a big story which we haven't heard about much in the last few weeks. because no one believes it, no one believes by them will ever get round descending. abraham's and one thing and even to be dosed. what number are you talking about that you're surgical something stupid. i mean doesn't really make any sense. i think china is a media story, i think has been distorted like other t stories which have been secured and distorted to, to fit a certain narrative. the main one for me is the panic that we've seen between

hadn't come answered any case just a few weeks ago. so leslie was in washington, what was it doing there? well, i think it was been brief by biter telling him to get a move on certain things. i don't think that very seriously. it seems the bible was affected by this and felt the need to send a few key officials to landscape and in, namely, burns ca, director, to affirm a point which to the credit. and it's really payments made submit this. the washington post actually did report. they did actually write in a rather new and hybrid article, which probably few people read. they actually didn't make the point, the, the burden administration is delivering. the message is landscape, which is that you haven't got too much time. and the reason why you haven't got too much time to go ahead and achieve any other gains of the american, so to make on the battlefield is because i leave the republicans in america are given by and coded message that you are spending spree now with, with with ukraine,

but it can't continue. we're not saying we're going to cut it. we won't agree to the huge amounts that we signed off before. now we're in the house and so buying house transmitted this message to the great is and he's basically said, look, you've gone so some of the end of summer because then things start getting really difficult. you're going through kit a phenomenal rate. i mean, this is wrinkled, breaking, you know, this is military records being broken here, the mounting kit that he goes through is just unbelievable. no one can, no one knows where it goes, where ends up being used on the front. okay. is that clear? okay, got to ga, ga, ga, made the. ringback learn make some very smart points here, but the rhetoric is not changing and doubling down on the rhetoric, but then we have all this background stuff, you know, you know, time is running out. you have to, we have to make a case, you know, is that can go that can exist side by side for too much longer. george. i do think

that the americans as always hedging their bets, you know, they're, they're talking out of both sides of them out. so you have the one and you have biden doing the whole gung ho thing in the also and, and then you have the, they leave the stories for the washington post that way. if this turns out, well hey, it was all because we, we, we, how often we show to watch was it things don't turn out well, we can blame it on zillow and see what we don't and it needs to get off work. so it's something for everyone americans always do. this is always the sort of the hard liners in the south. and then, you know, you take your pick depending on how it works out. but going back to your point about china in the right, this is the friendship between russia and china, you know, goes back to the, the, the, the yeltsin era. i mean, that's, that's when it began. and it was obviously an expression that russian weakness of

own ability. they needed to find that ally. and this has been growing in strength, year of the year. now some people has come out, whoa can up to this, and they won't look russia, china a very close. we need to split them up against any going to slip. i mean, neither side is the slightest interest that will, well, i better join forces with the americans against the chinese. you know, that's a really good idea. well, that's a great strategy. and on top of it, martin with news reports that are more advisors are going to taiwan. and so blink and wants to challenge his chinese counterpart about rules based order and all this. and the chinese have to say, why are you putting more advisors technicians, whatever work you want to use on taiwan, which you, the united states recognize as part of china. okay. so why would the chinese have

any interest in changing course right now when they see on their flag sable, roderick rattling and that's something they take very seriously mark. yeah, and i think that chinese are probably more than the well, the most conscious of that rather unsafe re mention of obama when referring to joe biden, which applies totally to biden's foreign policy initiatives since taking office. you know, don't underestimate jo, binds ability to slip on pricing. of course, you know, name wrong. so our policy initiative that button can actually say nails done good here. you might own the ne pipelines actually, and a lot of voters will resonate with a lot of them. we'll, we'll, we'll connect with that because in the arms, the american economy that created growth that created jobs. and i get the longer term when we look at the foreign policy layer, you know, wherever boyd and goes, he usually messes things up, you know?

and i wonder whether the tie one story is really immediate destruction. to shift the media narrative now away from ukraine. from august, september, october onwards. swift things are going to get really tough in your cray when these tanks, even if they arrives, you know, they're not gonna make any real difference. i mean, if you're into inspiration now, and you're talking to your generals, generals surely must be planning a spring offensive because there's an option to that. we've got the, you know, i wrote about it from western media who, you know, military people, journalists, are much better informed than i am talking about a spring offensive. and so i think this is really speaking to, you know, he's got a count down now from the summer on gloves to being reelected. and that time is not on his side. you know, and when, when the stories turn against him in ukraine, i think a will be looking for a new story on the song policy circuit and china. and so one seems to be right, particularly when britain is helping him so much. michelle, if it were,

or maybe we'll have another spat of balloons, who knows? i'm sure that that was another one of those interesting cane laurie. yeah. even fascinates it you're in charge or you don't have talked about this on our podcast. um, if it really was democrat versus republican, if it was really conservative versus liberal in one to win, oh, it's still spines. war, it's going badly. it's very, very expensive. and i'm you and i have been bewildered by this forever. ok, because it is biden's war. he has a tendency to, you know, what with foreign policy. it's a no brainer, but it shows, but it really does shows it mostly the curtain away. and you can see the unified pull the of the unit party, the war party, and the military industrial complex. their interest is beyond politics. go ahead. georgia is exactly right. the republicans in the oakland goal and, and they didn't to seem to be able to just kick the ball. you know,

it's there right. this is nadia just not giving over the line. yeah. it's quite extraordinary because we know that had it been the other way around, and trump for president, the listeners was going on in ukraine. the democrats will be saying this is trump's law. this is from florida. and, but he says, you know, the republicans are kind of all over the place, and that's because they have this atavistic attitude toward russia. then they said they simply opted to them, you know, even though they disliked biding the, you know, they buy them and everything. but the somehow, you know, russia still embodiment of evil and the book in the best that they can come up with . well, biden should have sent the weaponry sooner. he should have done more earlier. he should have been tough, but that's, that's why roofing latest biden was weak as this other. now finally, come up with the how to answer the question. yeah it's, it's fine. so he was too weak. it creates a project,

whatever it is he was supposed to make it. and that's, you know, and that's it. and that's why i think republicans will fail to exploit because martin said, yeah, i mean things really blow up in bite and say, and where electrically he should be punished. the republicans are just simply go to bundle it. okay, but let me one minute left here is some are the, even though i, the republicans will continue to go along with biden's ukraine policy. i don't think that's going to be the case in europe because we just have these massive protests in berlin over the last new cycle. there. it's more than rhetoric and this is, this is every day live life in germany. it wasn't supposed to cost you when it comes to eggs in. and copper tino isn't going out in the evening now. it is last 45 seconds deal. yeah, life is getting tougher and it takes a while. so the average man st. to understand the dynamics of a huge issue like the korean war and effects his pocket,

heating bills just gone through the roof 34 times in the u. k. for example. i've mentioned before in the u. k, we have pensions now freezing to death in their apartments, germany, germany's economy. i think this week, it economists said it is now officially in recession. and a lot of german companies announced flocking to america to set up companies that just to stay in the game. but you know, by them i think it coming to europe is going to be a problem sooner enough. sure. i mean these people kind of hang on so much longer and i think macro and it shows quite some stuff that they do understands that the time is running out for them. but i think also, i wonder, we talked about republicans in america, unburden. i wonder if the night miss norfolk binder relating to president? sure elections is, but it becomes a one issue race which will be then that that's a question for another program we've run out of time when it gets america. and in budapest, when i think mister watching us here at ortiz, the next time, remember,

crossed up rules ah, at this hour, american and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations, to disarm iraq, to free its people, and to defend the world from gray with we will bring to the iraqi people, food and medicines, and supplies. and freedom with

nations may be able to turn a blind eye to atrocities. another comes the united states of america is different wherever people long to be free. they will find a friend in the united states. ah, with a human being a little bit about it evolves anybody basie. so the city, if you draw the look at the incentives and we figured a few color, reverend notions is one among several means to reach the goal of conquering foreign lands and bringing them onto the help of u. s. western economic interest. people think sadie, i didn't that he did to everybody did them. okay. yeah. during training class. so

no, we just say a little bit of our america in the final goal of these thing revolutions to ensure that there are no independent players in the world anymore. ah, the headlines off the international as nigeria wait to see who will leave it with vote counting on the way early results from the countries presidential parliamentary election are coming. palestinian authorities denounced israeli settlers for that part in violent riots overnight in the west bank town of water. at least one palestinian was killed but more than a 100. what were your thought? we are not afraid of that is really army or protecting the settlers. but if you try to protect yourself, the army will attack you and spray you with gas. this is oppression. they are attacking us inside our houses and you have no right to do.