expected, ah, to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess martin j america. he's an award winning journalist and commentator. and in budapest we have george semi while he's a podcast, or it's a gaggle which can be found on youtube and locals, or a gentleman crossed up rules in effect. that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciate it. i start out with george in budapest, georgia, you know, is peace in the air. i mean, there piece proposals coming out. now the chinese have come, come out with the 12 point program. what's coming out of the u. k. france and germany is a bit unclear, but it is being, it's making the rounds that they're sounding out. as i said in my introduction, as the lensky regime on how to move forward. i think there's some kind of reckoning going on here, but it doesn't mean it's going to end well, hear your thoughts on both proposals, other proposals or proposals, which george,

when i did give away the punchline a moment to leave the strike thing about that record from the wall street journal about this u. k francois germany proposal is that there is no one sent us, not one word about russia's security concerns. so that all the talk about, wow, what can we do to provide some security for ukraine? and how do we mount a early offensive by zalinski so that he can be put in a stronger position? well, that, that go she, asians, and can we liberate all of the don bye and crimea, or should we just have to settle a dumbass? leave me a for a later date. there's nothing, not one word about what the conflict has been all about. why russia launched this last year, which is russia's security concerns, and there is

a list. i have no idea of it. now was it because of the reporters of the wall street journal? was it because of the leaders of the nato allies, but as long as they don't consider rushes brothers are the issues are roughly been raising for many years about nato expansion. and about guarantees that have some kind of marriage, not just something that well will say something today, and then we'll change our minds, morris, and then there isn't going to be any kind of peace negotiations. the chinese of proposals were interesting and well, largely dismissed by the nato countries are interested. the one who was the lender himself knows the latest i think, is trying to think that he can charm his way anywhere and that he could get a meeting was easing pain. and then he can persuade things to come over the side.

otherwise, i don't think to be honest, the chinese proposals are going to go anywhere either. you know, i guess you would need some script writers from, from washington in london to rabbit. is martin this stay with the chinese plan because i agree with george here, part of it and i'm going to read part of it here. country should quote, prevent block confrontation. i think we know that that's a reference to a nato and work towards building quote, a balance effective and sustainable european security architecture. that's exactly what george was talking about. martin. yeah, i think the real problem here is, even though western elise are beginning to realize that they need to start looking at a solution for ukraine. they're taking so long about stepping in this direction. you know, you talk about the script, right? is this an entity?

i think we need to script writers with dumb and dumber or c. call for show macro. because the kind of statements that are coming from these camps are just incredible . absolutely astounding. i mean, how turn death of the situation. can you be, it seems that both of these slater's can agree on one thing they want. now, a deadline, they want something set in progress for peace talk. so they seem to agree on a fundamental position which we haven't had before. the news is so landscape is the problem. that's what they've agreed on bus rating in between the line just of this guy isn't moving and direction. we need to move and you talk about about to ask his problems. what i think is interesting is that the west france and germany, they have their own problems. and what we're witnessing now is a shift towards this narrative of we need to get a piece process moving and moving quite quickly because macro and shoes are

thinking about their own political back, we're going to see the thing about their own comes and how much longer the situation go on for because you have now a key date coming on, which is 2024. that seems like a long way away. but the binding count was recognized from the summer onwards. he's going to have to start campaigning. even going to places like flint, where she's afraid of cut, she also supporting disease in front. and he's going to explain to humble americans who are struggling to eat or even survive. why he hasn't pumped hundreds of billions of dollars into jobs of cur rose hospitals instead of funding a war in a country which they can't find a map of the world. so you've got this dichotomy of logic going on, i think, between landscape and the west and europe. the pins look at the problem slightly differently from macro and shows, but i mean show, says so tone, death is so out of touch. reality is, he just recently visited

a brazil sandrica bruce countries o king that he could stir up some sort when taken some against russia from those countries. i mean, what time is this going on? you know, obviously that backfired. spec. let me know if it may go to georgia right now, but i, you know, we were talking about peace proposals and because as it was really quote reported by the journal that the, the british, the french and the germans are sounding out zalinski. but i mean, look, buying was in, in camps. ok. and in warsaw with some of the most bombastic language that we've heard from a long time, from a man that this can't really deliver it any more. um, you know, so who cares what the hell for being leaders have to say. i mean, it's so interesting is that one of the biggest loser in all this is europe. i mean, you have still traveling around the world while the americans alleged by seymour hersh, destroy his pride, his pride and joy of a fueling german economy. thus,

the jury, the european economy. i have to agree with mark, it is a bit delusional, but really, who cares what piece proposals come out of western capital? it has to come out of washington. don't know exactly right, and this is what, what is so astonishing and particularly when it comes to germany, germany, the economic powerhouse a, you know, the traffic wound which is their pride and joy that they come. this great, a global economic ours is being jeopardized openly contemptuous. they by the united states. and you have to wonder about the german public having, you know, you're going to stand for this, or you that tolerate, essentially being relegated to kind of a 2nd class status as a, as an economic power a seemingly they are. and what's interesting about the, you know, what i mean, you just said the americans are the ones who are the driving force folders. and as long as they can ignore every piece proposal, they can go on a list,

whipping out their checkbook. and this is another $10000000000.00, and then they can ignore all of the proposals coming out of your ability to read doesn't matter what shows micron or what else that. and now the one caveat there is if the british decide to join forces with the french and the germans, and that's why i thought, well then maybe something interesting here. when i saw the headlight, the british of now joined the french germans because i think the americans and might be isolated. but as i said earlier, i don't think there's anything here that will be of any interest, but of us the americans could pull the plug them. so let's get any time in terms of the always talk about, well, we know, you know, we, you know, we, we, everything is, depends on zalinski and, you know, we, you know, he says war and we know no, nothing depends on zalinski. everything depends on washington. because it's washington is just simply given him an open checkbook in martin, in the following on what georgia said there. i mean, this is a case of moral hazard. i mean, and he has no inkling until

a nation whatsoever to change what's going on. now, i mean look, as you said, when biting goes on, the campaign is going to be asking, why are you paying the pensions of ukrainians? why are you paying for their health care? why you're paying for everything else? i mean, we, we, everyone knows this incident that happened in ohio. i mean, the stark contrast. there is a parent for all to see. so i, i don't see zalinski. i mean, if it's all, you know, nothing about zalinski without zalinski. i don't think he has any reason to change his behavior right now. the checks. okay. continue to come in. exactly. and i think that's really the key point. i'm george's point, this is a fascinating mom. you know, there is no real impetus yet, but it could be, and i think it some pretty fascinating. but the, when you boil down the essence, what micron and shoots are saying to slips which it could be you could because we could be forgiven for making mockery of coke, chris, liberty of it. because it is

a maris in the respect that the french and germans are st landscape. look, we need you to move towards some sort pistols with russia and to encourage you to do that. what we're proposing to do is give you a whole ton load, more of guns and cache and whatever you need. because that would actually help you . and then also just your viewers understand essentially everything up to nato membership. so it's some kind of security arrangement. a lot more, cast in a lot more weapons. okay, so martin lindsey excepts that what i would the russians except got a doctor the russians. and that's the, that's is what makes a mockery of everything. keep going. yeah, i think they've been, they've been brushed out of the equation, but i don't think that will last too long. i think it may be media doing that media place. big role here, but for the moment, you know, so then sky as no real incentive. what i think could happen, and,

and i think some certain corners of someone list of alluded to this is i think, a certain point that relationship is things a europe is going to run into difficult runs, runs rough forces, and it's already happening. you can see the there was some indications of this already, but i think at a certain point they deal. i think i'm quite wrong page. i think the europeans are in a very strong position because finally it will be show will be microphone. you can actually say to landscape, look with a lot of this. if you don't play a long take a proposal seriously, we may, will actually cut the funding to you. we may actually reduce counter your point in shields goes road, but they always have and only to better buck and washington will, will promote a regime change in germany, georgia. i'm not crazy. they could do that george. oh,

they absolutely will do that. i mean, the, the americans of been very, very wary about short. so the beginning, you know, as, as this talk about many times before, the americans have never trusted. the german social democrats going back to the 1950s through the seventy's with billy brown's of how much went through to the, to thousands with gaff schroeder, they just don't like the social democratic and they would love to see the back of shoals. and you know, we saw how contemptuously they treat the troll. so alina bab, oak is very much on the bus, and they have in mind all headed out like george, will have to go to a hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on real new state. ah ah ah, need to come to russian state will never be on the most landscape

with in the 55 with speaking with will ban in the european union. the kremlin media machine, the state on russia for date, and c, r t spoke neck, given our video agency, roughly all band to on you to come with me. ah

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ah, a welcome back to cross. not all things are considered non peter labelle. this is a home addition to remind you. we're discussing some real lives. ah, let's go back to martin america learning attorney interesting. the, the, the media is blood with allegations that china has already been, or may start supplying arms to show russia. i see no indication the russian needs arms, but ok, these are the media stories. are also this ridiculous talk about russia and china getting closer together. is it that suddenly appeared to some people?

this is something that's been going on for a very long time, and i find it really astounding mainstream you. oh, my goodness, you know, they're very much asleep at the wheel here. okay. i did that in one more thing here . i think it was in munich, and the chinese foreign minister. he was challenged by our old favorite child joseph brow. the foreign policies are on the european union, and he said, you know, it's, we crossing one of the red lines of china supplied arms to, to russia. and he said, when you supply a firm, steve craig, so what is the difference? he said, a very big difference and apparently ran for the door, didn't answer what that differences mark, when all these anything remarkable about worldly, just not replying to. i'm just a girl. so question. see, she's in union circle foreign policy. i think this is a major story. i mean, i hate to keep how much media because i'm a journalist, but i do think it's a media store. i think this is

a real story about how selective western media is when it touches china. you know, it just roots out all the new, susan sticks of the cliches from the beginning. it isn't really a story at all, but china is in space with russia and getting involved in the arms race which has been created by the west from just just a few weeks ago. if you remember, the panic we experienced over tanks. thanks for the new subject. and tanks them are contained some german times leopold 2 tanks of 2 tanks and on the british challenge of things is all become a big story which we haven't heard about much in the last few weeks because no one believes it, no one believes and will ever get round descending. abrams and one saying that even if he does what numbers you talking about? i still think of something stupid. i mean, i don't really make any sense. i think china is a media story, i think has been distorted like other tea stories which have been secured and distorted, to sit to fit a certain narrative. the main one for me is the panic will be seen between biden's

come and landscape just a few years ago. so as he was in washington, what was your doing there? well, i think it was being brief, bye bye to telling him to get move on to certain things. i don't think it was very seriously. it seemed the bible was affected by this and felt the need to send a few key officials just a landscape. and namely, benz c, i a director to a firm a point which took a credit and it's really aims me submit this, but what post actually did report they did actually write in a rather new and hybrid article which probably few people read. they actually did make the point the, the burden administration is every message is landscape, which is that you haven't got too much time. and the reason why you haven't got too much time to go ahead and achieve any other gains of the american. so to make on the battlefield is because i lean republicans in america are given by and coded

message that you are spending spree now with, with, with ukraine. but it can't continue. we're not saying we're going to cut, it won't agree to the huge amounts that we signed off before. now we're the house, uncertain buying has transmitted this message to the graders and basically said, look, you've gone to some of the end of summer because then things start getting really difficult. you're going through kids and a phenomenal, right? i mean, this is a record breaking, you know, this is military records being broken share the amount of kid that he goes for is just unbelievable. no one can, no one knows where it goes, where ends up. but i mean, it's not clear, it's even being used on the front. ok. it's not clear. ok. with the ga, ga, ga. mean the you learn make some very smart point here. but the rhetoric is not changing the benefit of doubling down on the rhetoric, but then we have all this background stuff, you know, you know, time is running out. you have to, we have to make a case, you know, that can go,

that can exist side by side for too much longer. george. now i do think that the americans, as always, i hedging their bets, you know, they're, they're talking out of both sides of them. out, so you have on the one and you have biden doing the whole gung ho thing in the also and, and then you have the, they leave the stories for the washington post that way. if this turns out, well hey, it was all because we, we, we, how often we show to what's, was it, things don't turn out well, we can blame it on zillow and see what we doesn't indicate that, you know, you need to get off work. so it's something for everyone americans always do. this is always the sort of the hard liners on the soft line is. and then, you know, you take your pick depending on how it works. but going back to your point about china, or instantly, the friendship between russia and china, you know, goes back to the, the yeltsin era. i mean that's, that's when really they,

it began and it was obviously an expression that russian weakness vulnerability. they needed to find that ally. this is being growing in strength the year of the year. now some people just woke up to this and say, well, look, several russia, china, a very close. we need to split them up because i have to split the problem in neither side as the slightest interest. well, i bet it joins forces with the americans against the chinese. you know, that's and that's a really good idea. well, that's a great strategy. and on top of it, martin with news reports that more advisors are going to taiwan. and so blink and wants to challenge his chinese counterpart about rules based order and all this. and the chinese have to say, why are you putting more advisors? technicians, whatever. where do you want to use on taiwan,

which you'd the united states recognize as part of china. ok, so why would the chinese have any interest in changing course right now when they see on their flying table, ryan are rattling and that's something they take very seriously mark. yeah, and i think that chinese are probably more aware than most countries of such that rather unsafe free mentions of obama when referring to joe biden, which applies totally to biden's foreign policy initiatives since to he office. you know, don't underestimate your binds ability to slip on top. of course, you know, name one foreign policy initiative. the biden can actually say nails done good here . you might all the ne pipelines actually and a lot of voters will resume, a lot of them will, will. we'll connect with that because a show in the arms, the american economy, that created growth that created jobs. and i get the longer term when we look at

the foreign policy layer, you know, wherever boyden goes, he usually messes things up, you know? and i wonder whether the tie one story is really made a distraction to shift the media narrative now away from ukraine, from august, september, october onwards. where things are gonna get really tough in ukraine when these tanks, even if they arrives, you know, they're not gonna make any real difference. i mean, if you're into an institution now and you're talking to your general generals surely must be planning the spring offensive. because as an option to that was a gap that, you know, and i wrote about it from western media who, you know, military people, journalists, are much better informed than i am talking about a spring offensive. and so i think this is really spooking, and you know, he's go account down now from the summer onwards to being re elected. and from that time is not on his side, you know, and when, when the stories turn against him in ukraine, i think a will be looking for a new story on the song policy circuit. and china and taiwan seems to be right.

particularly when britain is helping him so much on mission to say it or, or maybe we'll have another spat, 2 balloons. who knows? i'm sure it is that that was another one of those interesting came roaring. yeah, we have been fascinated in george. so you don't have talked about this on our podcast. if it really was democrat versus republican, if it was really conservative versus liberal in one to win. oh, it's still, it's biden's war. it's going badly. it's very, very expensive. and i'm you and i have been bewildered by this forever. okay. because it is biden's war. he has a tendency to, you know, what with foreign policy. it's a no brainer, but it shows, but it really shows mostly the curtain away. and you can see the unit of the, of the unit party, the war party and the military industrial complex. their interest is beyond politics. go ahead, george. in the 8. this is that you're right. the republicans in as i have in the

oakland goal and they and they didn't do it seem to be able to just kick the whole, you know, it's there right. this is not it just not get over the line. yeah. it's quite extraordinary because we know that had it been the other way around, and trump for president, the ceiling was going on in ukraine. the democrats will be saying this is trump's law. this is a but he says, you know, the republicans are kind of, you know, all over the place. and that's because they have this actor, this, the attitude towards russia. then they said they simply, you know, to them, you know, even though they dislike biting the, you know, they buy them and everything, but the somehow, you know, russia still the bottom of evil and the best that they can come up with. well, mine should have sent the weaponry sooner. you should have done more earlier. you should have been taught that's. that's why russian waited by was weak as this other now finally, come up with the house to answer the question. yeah. it's,

it's by them. so he was to, we should make great approaches, whatever it is he was supposed to make it, and that's it. and that's why i think republicans will fail to exploit because as martin said, yeah, i mean things could really blow up in a bind in space. and in way electrically, he should be punished. the republicans are just simply go to bundle it ok, but let me know one minute left here. and the, even though i, the republicans will continue to go along with bites of ukraine policy. i don't think that's going to be the case in europe because we just have these massive protests in berlin over the last new cycle there. it's more than rhetoric. this is, this is every day live life in germany wasn't supposed to cost you when it comes to eggs and, and cappuccinos and going out in the evening. now it is last 45 seconds to yeah, life is getting tougher and it takes a while. so the average man street to understand the dynamics of a huge issue,

let the current 160 book it aging. those just gone through 3 or 4 times in the u. k . for example, i've mentioned before in the u. k, we have pension, now freezing to death, apartments, germany jimmy's economy. i think this week economist said it is now officially in recession. and a lot of german companies announce shocking to america to set up companies that just to stay in the game. but, you know, i don't think they come to europe is going to be a problem soon or not sure, i mean, these people cannot hang on so much longer. and i think micron shows are quite sensitive to that. they do understand that the time is running out for them. but i think also, i wonder, we talked about republicans in america unbundled, i wonder if the night miss norfolk bunch of leading up to presidential elections is that it becomes a one issue price which will be a try. okay. then that that's a question for another program. we've run out of time or when it gets america in

budapest, when i think our viewers are watching us here at ortiz, the next time, remember, cross top roles. ah, ah, my name is franklin richardson, philadelphia got in the movement in any age, 13 or 14. we were violent towards those people because we believe there were this race were here 1st. this is our country being part of that movement. i got a sense of power. when i felt powerless, we got attention when i felt invisible and accepted when i talked to level the life after, hey, is an organization that was founded by for a white supremacist in the u. s. in canada. and they found each other and they knew that they wanted to help other guys get out. was 2 parts to

getting out of it by an extremist with the 1st part of disengagement, which is where you leave the social group. and then the next part is d. radicalization where belief systems audiology are remove, very impactful. when someone finally came along with no fear, no judgement, you heard my story did nothing to challenge it. validate with a year, a shadow shorter one. and i'm not trying to stay like a national z. m a

ah ah hungry from the north stream pipelines a terrorist doctor called for an official view and investigation. stressing, now such an incident can never be repeated. france will be made a scapegoat for africa, problems or drawn into a tug of war influence that's according to president micron of it's for nation 2 of the continents coming i made much recent opposition to paris. his presence with hearing child politicizing that corona virus progeny, beijing.