ah mm mm ah ah. hello and welcome to crosstalk, where all things are considered i'm funeral about is ending the conflict in ukraine on the agenda. maybe china has offered a proposal. it appears the u. k. france and germany are sounding out the zalinski regime on a proposal of their own. all will come to nothing if russia's interests are not respected. ah,

to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess, martin j america. she's an award winning journalist and commentator. and in budapest we have george semi wiley, he's a podcast, or at the gaggle which can be found on youtube and locals, or a gentleman crossed up rules and effect. that means you can jump any time you want, and i always appreciate it. i start out with george in budapest, georgia, you know, is peace in the air. i mean, there piece proposals coming out. now the chinese have come, come out with a 12 point program. what's coming out of the u. k. france and germany is a bit unclear, but it is being, it's making the rounds that they're sounding out. as i said in my introduction as zalinski regime on how to move forward. i think there's some kind of reckoning going on here, but it doesn't mean it's going to end. well, hear your thoughts on, on both proposals. other proposals, all proposals, which george? well i think i did give away the punchline. the moment. the striking thing

about requote it from the wall street journal about this you pay for germany, proposal is that there is no one sentence, not one word about russia's security concerns to talk about why. oh, what can we do to provide some security for ukraine, and how do we mount offensive by zalinski so that he can be put in a stronger position, negotiations? and can we liberate a dumbass? leave me a for a later date. there's nothing, not one word about what the conflict has been all about. why russia launched this last year, which is russian security concerns. and there isn't, i have no idea of it. you know now was this because of the police report as it will

say journal, was it because of the leaders of the nato allies. but as long as they don't consider rushes problems or issues or russia has been raising for many years about nato expansion and about guarantees that have some kind of marriage, not just something that well, we'll say something today, and then we'll change our minds more than there isn't going to be any kind of a piece. negotiations. the chinese proposals were interesting and well, largely dismissed by the nato countries are interesting. that's the one with was the lead scheme sellers. lensky, i think, is trying to, i think that he can chime, he's away anywhere, and that he can get a meeting with. and then he can persuasion thing to come over to his side.

otherwise, i don't think to be honest that the chinese proposals are going to go anywhere either. you know, i guess you would need some script writers from, from washington in london. the rabbit is martin. stay with the chinese by me because i agree with george here. part of it and i'm way to read part of your country should quote, prevent block confrontation. i think we know that that's a reference to a nato and work towards building quote, a balance effective and sustainable european security architecture. that's exactly what george was talking about. barn yeah, i think the real problem here is even though western elise are beginning to realize that they need to start looking at a solution for ukraine. they're taking so long about stepping in this direction. you know, you talk about the script writers. so it's an entity i think we need the script writers were dumb and dumber or c. call for show macro. because the kind of

statements that are coming from these comes are just incredible. absolutely astounding. i mean, how, turn death of the situation. can you be, it seems that both of these slater's can agree on one thing they want. now, a deadline, they want something set in progress for peace talk. so they seem to agree on a fundamental position which we haven't had before. the news is so landscape is the problem. that's what they've agreed on bus rating in between the line just of this guy isn't moving and direction we need to move in. but you talk about about to ask his problems. what i think is interesting is that the west france and germany, they have their own problems. and what we're witnessing now is a shift towards this narrative of we need to get a piece process moving and moving quite quickly because macro and shoes are thinking about their own to school. back let's either think about their own camps

and how much longer the situation go on for because you have now a key dates coming out, which is 2000 to $24.00. that seems like a long way away. but the binding comes recognize that from the summer onwards, he's going to have to start campaigning. even going to places like flint, where she's afraid of catchy, also supporting disease and formed. and he's going to explain to humble americans who are struggling to eat or even survive, why he hasn't pumped under billions of dollars into jobs of cur rose hospitals instead of funding a war in a country which they can't find a map of the world. so you've got this dichotomy of logic going on, i think, between landscape and the west and europe. the pins look at the problem slightly differently from macro and shows, but i mean show, says so tone, death is so out of touch. reality is it just recently visited brazil, south africa countries. ok. they can stir up some sort of tegan ism against russia

from those countries. i mean, what time is this going on? you know, obviously that back that you know is going to go to georgia right now, but, you know, we're talking about peace proposals. and because we record reported by the journal that the, the, the british, the french and the germans are sounding out lensky. but i mean, look, buying was in, in king. okay. and in warsaw some of the most bombastic language that we've heard from a long time, from a, a man that just can't really deliver it anymore. you know, so who cares what they are being leaders have to say. i mean it's so interesting is the one of the biggest loser to know this is europe. i mean, you have still traveling around the world while the americans alleged by fema hers destroyed his problems, his pride and joy of appealing german economy. thus the jerk the european economy, i have to agree with martin and it is a bit delusional. but really,

who cares what peace proposals come out of western capital? it has to come out of washington. don't know exactly right, and this is what, what is still astonishing. and particularly when it comes to germany, germany, the economic powerhouse a, which is their pride and joy that they come. this great global economic hour is being jeopardized openly contemptuous. they buy the united states and you have to wonder about the german public. everything. you know, you're going to stand for this. are you that tolerate, essentially being relegated to 2nd class status as a, as an economic, how a seemingly they are. and what's interesting about the, you know, what i mean, you just said that the americans are the ones who are the driving force folders. and as long as they can ignore every piece proposal, they can go on a whipping out their checkbook. and this is another $10000000000.00, and then they can ignore all of the proposals coming out of your ability to read

doesn't matter what shows micron or what else that. and you know, no one can be out there is if the british decide to join forces with the french and the germans. and that's why well then maybe something interesting here. when i, when i saw the headlight, the british of now joined the french germans because i think the americans and might be isolated. but as i said earlier, i, you know, i don't think there's anything here that would be of any interest, but the americans could pull the plug them. so let's get any time in terms of the always talk about, well we go, you know, we, you know, we, we, everything is, depends on zalinski and, you know, we know he's war and we know nothing depends on zillow and everything depends on washington. because it's washington, just simply given him an open check in martin in the following on what georgia said there. i mean, this isn't case of moral hazard. i mean, and he has no inkling until a nation whatsoever to change what's going on. now, i mean look, as you said, when goes on the campaign is going to be asking,

why are you paying the pensions of of ukrainians? why are you paying for their healthcare? why you're paying for everything else? i mean, we, everyone knows this incident that happened in ohio, i mean, the stark contrast. there is a parent for all to see. so i, i don't season, lindsey, i mean if it's not, you know, nothing about wednesday without the wednesday. i don't see has any reason to change his behavior right now. the checks ok. continue to come in. exactly. and i think that's through the key point. i'm. george is point. this is a fascinating one. you know, there is no real impetus yet, but it could be, and i think at some pretty fascinating that they, when you boil down the essence of what macro and she's saying is landscape, which it could be we could because we could be forgiven for making a mockery of creating liberty of it because it is a maris in the respect that the french and germans are st. resent it. look,

we need you to move towards some sort pistols with russia and to encourage you to do that. what we're proposing to do is give you a whole ton load, more of guns and cache, whatever you need, because that would actually help you. and then also just understand essentially everything up to nato membership. so some kind of security arrangement, a lot more cash and a lot more weapons. okay, so martin, so lindsey, except that what was i would the russians have got to talk to the russians. and that's the, that's is what makes a mockery of everything. keep going more, i think they've been, we've been brushed out of the equation, but i don't think that will last too long. i think it may be media doing the media player big role here. but for the moment, you know, landscape has no real incentive. what i think could happen, and, and i think some certain calling as a sub. so melissa, alluded to this is, i think,

at a certain point that relationship between zelinski on europe is going to run into difficult, on route to run, to rough horses. and it's already happening, you can see the there are some indications of this already, but i think to a certain point they do, i think, quite wrong page. i think the europeans are in a very strong position because finally it will be short. so they'll be macro on who can actually say to to lensky. look, we've had enough of this. if you don't play along and take our proposal seriously. we may well actually cut the funding to you, we might actually reduce the counter. your point in shield goes ro, but they always have and only to better buck in washington. well, we'll promote to regime change in germany, georgia. i'm not crazy. they could do that though. they absolutely will do that. i mean, the, the americans of been very, very wary about sure. so the beginning,

you know, as, as this talk about many times before, the americans have never trusted. the german social democrats going back to the 1950s through the seventy's with billy brown's and how much went through to the, to thousands with gaps, rhoda. they just don't like the social democratic and they would love to see the back of shoals. and, you know, we saw how contemptuously they treat control. so emily, in a bad book is very much the person they have in mind. and i do have to go to a hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on real estate with our team. ah, ah, i'm extension and i'm here to plead with you, whatever you do not watch my, your show seriously. watch something that's so different opinions that you won't get anywhere else. look at it, please. if you of the state department to see

a weapons makers, multi $1000000000.00 corporations, choose your facts for you. go ahead by change and whatever you do. don't watch my show, stay mainstream because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called direct impact, but again, you probably don't want to watch it because it might just change dwayne thing. oh, russia. he's part of europe intellectually. politically, even in being to war, peter went styling, was accused of isolating russia with his 5 year plans. and so was styling never wanted to exclude exclude russia from western trade from western economist ah ah,

welcome back to cross not we're all things are considered. non peter labelle, this is a home addition to remind you. we're discussing some real news. ah let's go back to martin america learning attorney interesting. the the, the medias blood with allegations that china has already been or may start supplying arms to, to, to russia. i see no indication the russian needs arms, but ok, these are the media stories. are also this ridiculous talk about russia in china getting closer together is if that suddenly appeared to some people. this is something that's been going on for a very long time. and i find it really astounding of mainstream you. oh my goodness, you know they, they're very much asleep at the wheel here. okay. i did that in one more thing here . i think it was in munich and the chinese foreign minister. he was

challenged by our old favorite child joseph brow. the foreign policies are on the european union. and he said, you know, it's, we crossing one of the red lines of china to provide arms to, to russia. and he said, when you supply a firm, steve craig, so what is the difference? he said, a very big difference and apparently ran for the doors, didn't answer what that differences are. one of these anything remarkable about world leaders? not replying to joseph burley question, see, she's been indian circle foreign policy. i think this is a major story. i mean, i hate to keep telling me that because i'm a journalist, but i do think it's me to start. i think this is a real story about how selective western media is when it touches china. you know, it just roots out all the nuances and sticks of the cliches from the beginning. it isn't really a story at all. the china is getting in bed with russia and getting involved in the

arms race, which has been created by the west from just just a few weeks ago. if you remember the panic that we experienced over tanks. thanks for the new subject and tanks, the murder containing some german times leopold 2 tanks of 2 tanks on the, on the british challenge tanks is all become a big story which we haven't heard about much in the last few weeks because no one believes it, no one believes them will ever get round descending. abraham's m one saying that even if he does, what number are you talking about? i started taking something stupid. i mean, i don't really make any sense. i think china is a media story, i think has been distorted like other t stories which have been secured and distorted, to sit to fit a certain narrative. the main one for me is the panic will be seen between biden's come and landscape just a few years ago. so as he was in washington, what was it doing there? well, i think it was being brief, bye bye to telling him to get move on to certain things. i don't think that very seriously. it seems the bible was affected by this and felt the need to send

a few key officials to landscape and namely, benz c i a director to a firm of points which took a credit and his really aims made submit this. the washington post actually did report. they did actually write in a rather new and hybrid article, which probably few people read. they actually didn't make the point. the burden administration is, every message is landscape, which is that you haven't got too much time. and the reason why you haven't got too much time to go ahead and achieve any other gains of the american so to make on the battlefield is because i believe the republicans in america are given by and coded message that you are spending spree now with, with with ukraine, but it can't continue. we're not saying we're going to cut it. we won't agree to the huge amounts that we signed off before. now we're in the house, uncertain buying house, transmitted this message to the craters,

and basically said, look, you've gone so summer the end of summer, because then things start getting really difficult. you're going through kit a phenomenal rate. i mean, this is a record breaking, you know, there's a military records being broken here. the mountain kid he goes through is just unbelievable. no one can. no one knows where it goes, where ends up being used on the phone. okay. is that clear? okay. got a ga, ga, ga me the. ringback learn make some very smart points here, but the rhetoric is not changing the benefit, the doubling down on the rhetoric. but then we have all this background stuff, you know, you know, time is running out. you have to, we have to make a case, you know, if that can go that can exist side by side for too much longer. george. now i do think that the americans as always a hedging their bed, you know, they're talking out of both sides of them. out on the one and you have biden doing

the whole gunboat thing in the water. and then you have the, the lead the stories for the washington post. that way. if this turns out, well hey, it was all because we, we, we hung off and we show, what was it, things don't turn out well, we can blame it on so many people. we don't have to get off something for every one . americans always do this as always, the sort of the hard line is on the soft line is and then you know, you take your pick depending on how it works. ok. but going back to your point about china, even in the right, this is the friendship between russia and china, you know, goes back to the, the, the, the, the yeltsin era. i mean that's, that's when really they, it began and it was obviously an expression that a russian weakness of owner ability. they needed to find that ally. and this has been growing in strength, year off the year. now some people has come out,

whoa can up to this and say won't look russia, china a very close. we need to split them up against a split the problem and neither side. there's the slightest interest that whoa, whoa, i better join forces with the americans against the chinese. you know, that's a, that's a really good idea. that's a great strategy. and on top of it, martin with news reports that are more advisors are going to taiwan. and so blink and wants to challenge his chinese counterpart about rules based order and all this and the chinese have to say, why are you putting more advisors technicians, whatever. where you want to use on taiwan, which you the united states recognize as part of china. ok, so why would the chinese have any interest in changing course right now when they see on their flank, i sable, right rattling and that's something they take very seriously mark. yeah,

and i think the chinese are probably more aware than most countries of such that rather unsafe for mentions of obama when we return to joe biden, which applies totally to biden's foreign policy initiatives since to he office. you know, i don't underestimate job one's ability to shut off on top racing. of course, you know, named won foreign policy. the biden can actually say nails done good here. you might own the ne pipelines actually, and a lot of voters will resonate with a lot of them will, will, will connect with that because that show in the arms, the american economy that created growth that created jobs. and i get that when a longer term, when we look at the foreign policy, it's late, you know, wherever boyd and goes, he usually messes things up, you know? and i wonder whether the tie one story is really a me to distraction, to shift the media narrative now away from ukraine. from august, september,

october onwards. swift things are going to get really tough and you cry when these tanks, even if they arrive, you know, they're not gonna make any real difference. i mean, if your input institution now and you're talking to your generals, the generals surely must be planted in the spring offensive because an option to that was a gap that, you know, and i wrote about it from western media who, you know, military people journalists, are much better informed than i am talking about. it's pretty offensive. and so i think this is really spooking by, you know, he's got a count down now from the summer onwards to being reelected and dumb, but time is not on his side. you know, when, when the stories turn against him in ukraine, i think they will be looking for a new story on the song policy circuit and china. and so one seems to be right, particularly when britain this helping him so much i'm ashamed to say or maybe we'll have another spats of balloon. who knows that that was another one of those interesting cane or laurie. in fact,

it took in george. you don't have talked about this on our podcast. if it really was democrat versus republican, but was really conservative versus liberal. even want to win. oh, it's still, it's by his war. it's going badly. it's very, very expensive. and i'm you and i have been bewildered by this forever. ok because it is biden's war. he has a tendency to what with foreign policy. it's a no brainer but it shows, but it really shows it mostly the curtain away. and you can see the unit of the, of the unit party, the war party in the military industrial complex. their interest is beyond politics . go ahead. yeah, exactly right. the republicans in the oakland goal and they didn't to seem to be able to just kick the ball, you know, it's there right. it's not it just knock it over the line. yeah. it's quite extraordinary because we know that hadn't been the other way around. and trump for

president, and this is what was going on in ukraine. the democrats will be saying this is trump's law. this is a but he said, you know, the republicans are kind of, you know, all over the place. and that's because they have this act of this, the attitude towards russia. then they said they simply, you know, to them, you know, even though they dislike biting the, you know, they buy them and everything. but the somehow, you know, rushes to lean, bought them into evil, and the best that they can come up with. well, biden should have sent the weaponry sooner. you should have done more earlier. you should have been taught. that's why russian waited bite was weak as this other. now finally, come up with the how to answer the question. yeah. it's, it's by them. so he was to, we should make great approaches. whatever it is he was supposed to make clear to prove it. and that's it, and that's why i think republicans will fail to exploit because as martin said, yeah, i mean things could really blow up in a bind in space and in way, electra,

he should be punished. the republicans are just simply go to bundle it ok. but let me know, one minute left here is a martin the, even though i, the republicans will continue to go along with biting some grain policy. i don't think that's going to be the case in europe because we just have these massive protests in berlin over the last news go there it's, it's more than rhetoric. this is, this is everyday live life in germany wasn't supposed to cost you when it comes to eggs in and cappuccinos and going out in the evening. now it is last 45 seconds to you. yeah. life is getting tougher on it takes a while. so the average man street to understand the dynamics of a huge issue like the current one i affects his book. it heating bills, just gone through the roof 34 times in the u. k. for example, i've mentioned before in the u. k, we have pinched us now. freezing to death in our apartments, germany, germany's economy. i think this week economist said it is now officially in

recession. and a lot of german companies announce shocking to america to set up companies that just to stay in the game. but, you know, i don't think it come to europe is going to be the problem sooner enough. sure. i mean, these people kind of hang on so much longer. and i think micron shows quite sensitive to that. they do understand that the time is running out for them. but i think also, i wonder, we talked about republicans in america unbounded. i wonder if the night miss norfolk bunch of leading up to presidential elections is but it becomes a one issue price which will be it. okay, then that, that's a question for another program we've run out of time when it gets america and who to pass on. i think our viewers are watching us here at ortiz the next time. remember, cross stock rolls. ah ah

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the 2nd world war affected millions of people during the conflict, the balance of power was held by the leaders of 3 nations, the united kingdom, the united states, and the ussr that die in one day before the dead man tried cruise. the keep up as not because hitler was weak and knew he would wake and he was bluffing. he was the major political figure, certainly one of the most prominent political leaders of the 20th century where they wish to report the germans of the germans. or when we support the russians, and that way, let them destroy each other. there was that kind of sentiment in the west at this time. the redrawing of european borders had begun britain and the united states, and then just any plan to attack the ussr,

britain to survive. russia had to be sacrificed. he is as w. b like and dish davis mr. boyd from us as the lot of some ricardo capital of mitchell knowledge of knowing that the cold war had begun with . mm. welcome to well, to part being part of europe, if not geographically. den, culturally, has been a century long exploration for the countries and it's periphery, especially russia and turkey. they emulated europe.