that's what's happened in dumbass this whole time. this is, these aren't objects, these are people. and so that's why i do what i do. that's why i'm here. the with the hello and welcome to cross talk or all things considered. i'm peter lavelle. it's getting harder and harder for the west to align their words with reality. it's clients that ukraine is in big trouble, and things are only expected to get worse. the west is struggling to put an end to accomplish that. never should have been fought in the 1st place. in the cross

talking the war of words i'm joined by my guess. angel juliano in hong kong. he's a political and financial analyst in london. we have david curtain. he's the leader of the heritage party, and in athens, we cross to dmitri last caught us. he is a lawyer and a freelance journalist, i gentleman cross talk roles and a fact that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciate, let me go to david david's 1st appearance on the program. much appreciated david, you know, the, the more we, i think about this conflict one year plus it's really kind of a psych off operation. it's all about perceptions and narratives, and a whole lot of propaganda. there's very little talk about the really the origins of the conflict, the nature of the regime in care of where all that money is going to. and just why is that west so concerned about ukraine's borders when the e u itself is not concerned with its borders and everyone knows the united states is not interested in its own southern border. there's a lot of taboo questions out there. but if we've started challenging the narrative,

i think we would have very different conclusions and how to proceed. since we have this talk in the background of, you know, a piece talk with the do the french and germans and the brits are supporting a chinese. so come out with a plan, all of these things are in mixed right now, but if you go back to the context of how this conflict, then i think that is the way forward to end david in london. go right ahead. yeah, absolutely. i totally agree with you. i mean, what you've got in the west is huge propaganda. there is only one line coming from most of the mainstream media and all of the governments in the collective west. and that is that russia is bad. ukraine is good, zalinski is an angel hootin is the devil, and that is how it's been spawn. there's absolutely no talk aloud of how this goes back to 2014. and the qu, that was instigated by the cia with victoria newland in ukraine because the collected west will not the people, but the government's in the deep state of the collective west. wanted to bring

ukraine into the e u and into nato. and that doesn't make any sense from a security point of view or in economic point of view, but there's no talk that kind of discussion isn't allowed. i did actually go on to a mainstream channel just recently and said that, but i haven't been invited back on. so i think they're all powers that be that try to stop this, a line from being i even spoken. and this information from being received by the people. but the great thing is that people still look on social media. ordinary people are actually looking at what's going on on a thinking about this from a holistic point of view and looking at all the different angles and actually waking up to the fact that it is and how is being portrayed by the government and the media that are in the pockets of the government. and so there is hope that the people that the people just don't want this to go on because what we're seeing and, you know, my main concern is that there's hundreds of thousands of people who've now being

killed. whether it's russians or ukrainians, and it's just slaughter going on here and we want that stop. and so that is the main concern of just ordinary decent people. yes, but that's not the concern of the people that wanted this conflict. you know, they, they're willing to sing the, go on to the last ukrainian dmitri, you know, the, i've been to ukraine many, many times before. the complex, obviously wonderful people, wonderful country. but the way it's portrayed in the west is some kind of cosmic on living existing on some kind of cosmic plane. ok, geography doesn't have much to do with it. geo politics doesn't have much to do with it. kind of, echoing with david said earlier, this is just a, you know, a cosmic fight against good versus evil, but that has nothing to do with jail politics. go ahead, dmitri. you know, it is astonishing here how little we talk about the big picture in the west when we talk about this war. and you cannot really understand what is happening in ukraine

and where all of this is heading and what's motivating western governments without looking at the geopolitical picture. that yields the geopolitical picture is that after the fall of the soviet union in the late eighty's, early ninety's, the united states found itself in the position for the 1st time in its history, of being the sole superpower of geopolitical behemoth. that was at that particular point in time, and for a brief period, a capable of being challenged in any meaningful way by any other country. russia went through a period of humiliation, abuse clipped talk rossi with the full and enthusiastic support of the united states government and other western governments. leading luminaries in the united states like george can and warned that abusing russia's vulnerability. that point in time would ultimately lead to disaster. but the neocons people like rumsfeld, ah, wilful wits cheney. they took control of u. s. foreign policy and decided that they were going to destroy and crush any potential resistance to usaa germany. and what they now confront is

a multi polar world for the 1st time in some 30 years, russia and china, particularly when they're acting in concert in an alliances they are pose an insurmountable obstacle to western hegemony. and the neocons simply can't accept that. they refuse to accept that reality and by refusing to do that, they are effectively imperiling the future of all humanity. yeah, yeah. and i go to you in hong kong to maintain western specifically american hegemony. the 1st thing they had to do was destroy europe. it's really, you know, the be the different outcomes of this policy is really astounding. not to speak of the destruction of ukraine. we have no idea what we ukraine is going to look like at the end of this conflict. but the, the closer the closest allies, the united states in this conflict are suffering. the brunt of it is, well, i'm thinking about blowing up north stream pipeline, the economic woes in europe here at all because of the importance of ukraine's

borders a. i cannot understand how this is an existential threat, but they've made it an extra central thread by positing it is a good versus evil struggle. go ahead in hong kong. i think it's important to look at europe, but the foundation of europe. we go back to after world war 2. the are true people that are very important in the foundation of europe valley. there are stein and germany decorously, that should be the father of for the foundation of europe. and you know what, they were actually on the payroll of the cia. so europe was actually a project in shaded by the us. what is behind this is our, is actually better control europe. and as she long term plan is to destroy nation state. so what that, what we saw right in this is a confrontation between natal, europe and russia. it highlight that that actually they saw you open stays to have lost the democracy. everything is decided in brussels and then washington as the

last say. so what it is, is that, what is the more shocking end it's, it's completely obvious. or we know we knew that mercury was actually spied by the an essay. we knew already many things, but this makes it much more obvious. so now if tomorrow you up wants to sit again at the table, especially after heavy lights, holland live local. are they credible? you know, of course, of course, in our credible, let me go to david here, david and one. i'm really glad that angela brought that all up here because the french, the british and the, the germans are, it's, it's rumored there, leaks, you know, they have a piece proposal coming out. well, from what i have seen. i don't know why russia would sit down at the table with any of these countries. after, as an angela pointed out, and when we go back to the mens records they were, the rush was lied to. i mean, this is all public knowledge. i know not a conspiracy theory, it's all public david. yeah,

absolutely. and then there will be no reason to actually take any of the people in the u. k. french and german government seriously, because from the very beginning of this serve the special military operation. a year ago, all they've done is talk about escalating and more war and more weapons and more money to the zalinski regime. and they're rumored a peace deal if you like. doesn't make any sense whatsoever. they're saying, well, we're going to lean on zalinski to have peace talks. but at the same time, they're going to continue giving more money and more weapons so he can win the war . and this is the language that they're using. now they are calling it a war and they are saying that them can be no other outcome apart from a ukrainian victory, whatever that means. and to most of them, that means that pushing the russian army right back to the borders of ukraine, taking over the donna donates can do hands people's republics. and crimea as well. i mean, that simply isn't going to happen,

but you find out the more that they're sending weapons or the escalating with artillery and then we have now tank states talking about aircraft. and then it's walking about long range missiles and weapons. every time they do that, it doesn't work and it isn't having the effect that they wanted to. so they just continue doubling down and doubling down. and then at that the background of all those things that they said they're actually that and saying, oh, we want a piece agreement as well. the 2 things just don't go together and they are just completely untrustworthy in what they're saying. well, exactly dimitry and i and they keep the, the name of the game as the escalade yet as much land and then call it a ceasefire. but even from the russian point of view, why would they agree to a cease fire? so the rum state of, of ukraine can be re armed by nato and do it all over again in 5 years time. i can guarantee you, you can take this to the bank. the russians will never agree to something like that

dimitry. it would be absolute insanity for them to do that, to the russian people and that the state have no, it made sacrifices for the protection of the russian people. quite considerable sacrifices. we don't know how many casualties have been sustain. they are undoubtedly significant. they find themselves now in an advantageous position. you can go to the website of the institute for the study of war, which is a pro u. s. pro neo con website funded by arms manufacturers. and look at a time lapse matter of what has happened on the battlefield since november, when russian forces withdrew from curse on city. what has happened is there has been one gain after another by russian forces. they've taken an brief cut. they've taken burg kafka. they take them quickly, she's got crescent. busy or a solid are they are on the verge of encircling a back mood, where the deadliest and most decisive battles have happened during the course of this war. and once that happens, they may well then have a pretty much unimpeded path to slab. yonce can crime a tourist. so if you're looking at it from the russian perspective,

you've made your sacrifices. you've built up your defenses, you mobilize hundreds of thousands of soldiers. you're winning the or decisively on the battlefield. it would be better insanity for you to enter a piece. ready which 1st of all requires you to see territory that you've gained with russian blood. and secondly, leaves the opponent the enemy in a position to attack you in the future. i hold that thought, gentlemen, we're going to go to a hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on the war of words, day with our teeth. ah, ah ah, ah ah, with

ah, ah, a ah ah, ah . who is the aggressor today? i'm authorizing the additional strong sanctions. today,

russia is the country with the most sanctions imposed against it. a number that's constantly growing. i figure which of the problems to cause shown here as we speak on the bill in your senior most in mine or will ship. we're banding all in ports of russian oil and gas, new g. i g with the, let me know when you have regarding joe biden, imposing these sanctions on russia, you know, has destroyed the american economy. so there's your boomerang long mo, when i was sure seemed wrong when i was just a shape out because of the african and engagement, it was the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart,

we choose to look so common ground. ah, welcome back. across the top, where all things are considered, i'm peter beltran, manager, were discussing war of words. the ok, so back angelo and in hong kong, you know, as a western media and the western elite. so scurry around decry to come together, cobbled together some kind of negotiations stance to and this complex i would just turn everyone's attention to publicly known documents that were sent out by moscow to washington and to brussels on december 17th, 2001. and this is what russia it was, you know there ultimatum wouldn't be a negotiating, so you call whatever you want. ok, they telegraphed to the world what they wanted. and if they didn't get that there

was going to be a conflict and you know what? everyone, the conflict happened. so let's go back to those 2 documents. you know, ukraine being neutral. no, no nato infrastructure there. and settling the, the issue with don bass and crimea. that's where, you know, that's a starting point right now. it's, everybody knows it. but in the, in the west, they won't recognize, you know, why? because they don't believe russia has legitimate security concerns. that's the big problem and ending this conflict. that's because that's how it started angelo, in hong kong. it's so it's very sad when you look at what's the rush i was asking was extremely trivial. it was extremely fair. you had in don't, must keep on that while she threatened of cut her genocide all the size, i mean very negative sign. we're all there. what russia was asking, it seems so trivial when you look at the position now that ukraine is put into

ukraine, my as she cease to exist as a nation states, if it was such a big gamble. but we need to ask or said the question, you know, it's so interesting that the, the collective west isa, over and over, say, talking about the sovereignty of ukraine. where was the southern journey quain in 2014, because ukraine is normal shock a sub. and since 2014 they, they have, you know, it's, they so much epoxy ukraine's democracy has been hijacked since 2014. they did one of the game. so, you know, they could actually peacock whoever they wanted. and then they, i mean, you know, you have to see, i mean, right now the c a is actually calling the shots in care. so they, they so much epoxy. ah, so, so it's just, it's just, it is you just embarrassment. i myself your opinion. i am so embarrassed of the position of my government when he comes to you. what is happening?

ukraine in the latest polls actually in italy, this, it says clearly that italians don't want this. they are not part of it. and they start to understand and, and well, handle all across the western world. this is an elite project. this is the, it's not grass roots. ok? i mean, where are the demonstrations for ukraine all over the world? now, you know it's an elite project, it's a media project. ok, david, if i go back to the irony of ironies, my friend is it, it the 1st of the 1st few weeks of the conflict, the negotiations and assemble with the turks. you know, a zalinski. i could have gotten something i'm giving up what he didn't even have. he didn't have the don bass and he didn't have crimea. he could have easily given that up because he didn't have it in the 1st place. that way. but no, it was the west that intervened and said no zalinski, you and your gang soldier on into the last ukranian. okay. that's why it did this responsibilities on the shoulders of the west. go ahead,

david. yeah. and into the shame of my country, united kingdom, i think boris johnson, who was the prime minister, the time, had a lot to do with persuading zalinski not to go with the p. steel that was being hammered out in turkey between pollutants, lensky, which would have brought this to a close. and as he said in the beginning, it was absolutely no reason for this war and his conflict to even start. there was no reason for it to continue back in april. they nearly reached a peace agreement where they would have agreed, you know, the crimea would stay russian, that the don bass area would stay russian, which is full of ethnic russians anyway. and is absolutely no strategical geopolitical advantage for the collect at west to insist that russian area, or with the majority of russian speaking people in f. the russians stays in ukraine and doesn't become autonomous. there's actually no reason for that whatsoever. it's not going to hurt the west at all economically or politically, but i think there's more to it than that because over the last 8 years and western

leads of turned ukraine into a hell hole of corruption. we know about the bio labs that are there. we know about the dodgy contracts which are going on, or we know about the money laundering, which is going on, you know, han to bite and himself. it's known a half a 1000000 pound a year. contract with paris. huh. for a no show job, that's just one person. how many more people actually are personally benefiting from the corruption which is going on in ukraine? and that's why i think the elite benefits from keeping it as it is. but the ordinary people are suffering wellesley won't even in one huge money laundering operations. a griff, that's the way i look at it. it's no coincidence. the afghan, griff ended and up. we got another one on that came on line. i don't, there's no coincidence about that. you know, dmitri, thanks to you on, must gotten back on twitter, and so i get it at a daily attacks thrown at me. that's fine. that's okay. i can take it. but i,

i've positive before and i get really a puzzling re reactions. the more the west helps ukraine since 2014, the smaller it gets, i mean, shouldn't, can, you know, you know, consider they, that the longer this goes on, the smaller their country is going to be dimitry. and in athens, up here with, with friends like the west who needs enemies. you know, we were having a discussion, the west now about escalating this conflict by providing main battle tanks. it's unclear how many vill ultimately to liver are. we're now talking about f sixteens, and there's an underlying assumption which no one ever questions in the mainstream discourse in the west. that if we only give ukraine more weapons, it will regain territory. but there is an entirely alternative hypothesis scenario, which i think any rational person would see is more likely to play out. and that is if we continue to sustain this war by providing weapons to ukraine, it will lose territory. and it will end up with less territory. now we have a situation developing in the southwestern part of ukraine where there is an

accumulation of ukrainian force is a next to trans nestea. this is actually giving to the russian military and the russian government. an incentive to try to extend the land bridge all the way from curse on region to trans mystery a, so that they lena position to actually predict, protect the ethnically russian population of trans mystery. we could see a situation unfold if this war goes on, where ukraine becomes an entirely landlocked state and loses completely, it's access to the black sea. and i frankly think that's a more likely outcome yet, then green recovering command. so, you know, be careful what you wish for, we are actually causing more harm to the premium people than good. well, angela, if you look at, you know, about going back to 2014, if you look at where the g 2, g, d, p was in ukraine, it was in the don bass and crimea. now it's d. d. p is shrinking, though obviously the war is a very detrimental and, and i agree with dimitry here,

it's good. it most likely end up is a landlocked state and it will become an orphan of the e. u. i don't know what they'll call the country mendera. stan, i'm not really sure, but that's on the e. u now. okay, cuz they're the ones, it's going to have to pick up the bill. i hate to say that in front of dmitri said it, it happens. okay, okay. i because i know what the you can do to countries. angela, go ahead. well, just think about a, so reconstruction. we are who's going to pay for reconstruction or is going to want to pay for. and if they, if it's not a solid piece, they keep talking about reconstructing, reconstructing what go ahead and hong kong know that they're not the reconstruct or did they therefore destroy like it? remember what they didn't knew in iraqi, in afghanistan, they didn't reconstruct anything. actually in afghanistan, they came, they, they, they left and they stole $7000000000.00 of afghani reserve. that actually most people are starving. so they don't care for 2nd once they've gone. they will forget about ukrainian,

they will forget that ukraine ever existed. and keep in mind that we have created, we have no church this sir. nazi ideology. those nurses, are they in euro, you know, and, and, and, you know, we isn't the next or isis that we have created that as actually is going to hunt us back in europe because he is, he said, this is a nasty culture and they are going to live with that europe is going to live with what they created. right. david, you know, they, that they say again, when i started the program here with what went to the lease, won't tell us about what this conflict here and it going back to the origins of the because in 2014 who exactly was involved in that, who used force, all this is public knowledge, if you want to know what the mainstream media will never tell you these things, david. no, and the thought the funny thing in the art, the funny thing is the irony is that the mainstream media for the last 8 years until 2022. i've been talking about a fall right problem and the

o nazi problem in ukraine. they'd been open about that, but the moment the special military operation started, they completely silent on there. and the narrative just split instantly. and when that happens, you know, there's something wrong. you know, that the strings are being polled and propaganda is being put in place. but yeah, we know that in 2014, the crew was instigated mainly by victorian newland and other people in the c i and the united states, a government and the right sector. the as off battalion and other neo nazi groups, were a key part of what happened in 2014, to get rid of a democratically elected government and put in a place, a puppet government, which would then bring ukraine into nato and into the e u. and that is the wrong future for the world. i mean, it's better for nato to actually have ukraine as a buffer state as a security's own, so that there is no antagonism. well,

what i didn't even i know i can tell. i can tell you, i think part of the, the end of this conflict is the end of nato. ok, but i got my fingers crossed. ok dmitri one minute left here. one day before the conflict started last year, ukraine was known for mostly for its corruption, but not any more interesting how they did that. dmitri one minute go ahead. i believe is 2021. when the pandora papers revealed that, the churchill into lensky himself had stashed significant assets offshore in tax havens. and suddenly all of that was forgotten. it was also forgotten that he was largely funded and sponsored by your cle malloy scheme. one of the most corrupt york's who's, who's accused by the u. s. government itself of a multi $1000000000.00 bank fraud. and that same oligarch funded the as off battalion. so the ability of the mainstream discourse in the west to exercise an intentional amnesia is absolutely remarkable. but ultimately, our failure to

a refusal to look at recent history and give it to regard is going to cause immense suffering 1st and foremost of the people of ukraine, but also to the collective west. yes. and that, and that, that suffering will last for a very long time. i gentlemen, that's all the time we have. i want to thank my guests in hong kong, athens and in london. and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at ortiz . see you next time remember prospect rolls in. ah, ah, ah, ah, [000:00:00;00]

a mm . i spoke with madison both both the model. she needs to do both nelson's meals, the deal with a over as carmen, perform already a lot of them, but human own floyd them by a they need to leave. you need

that because tanya is normally with he's here with us. the 1st one here, we're here with that with in time. i'm rick sanchez. and i'm here to play with you. whatever you do, you do not watch my you show seriously. why watch something that's so different. my little opinion that you won't get anywhere else working with please. if you have the state department, the cia weapons, bankers, multi $1000000000.00 corporations,

choose your facts for you. go ahead. i change and whatever you do. don't watch my show stay mainstream, because i'm probably gonna make you uncomfortable. my show is called direct impact . but again, you probably don't want to watch it because it might just change the way you on ship energy coming from russia, russian gas chip and she bows. affordable and ship. you are the stable, which has been both. not the case did is a will. that is no longer there. a good. it's a so for me i can put on your should crock: nickel super water. as long as their muslim ship was football, nearly me when you're both used to lunchroom and cookie. probably couldn't like