our video agency, roughly all band on youtube, a with me ah, [000:00:00;00] ah . hello and welcome to cross doctor. all things are considered on peter labelle. the west is self centered, egotistical, and very unaware. this is particularly true when it comes to the conflict in

ukraine for the west. ukraine is some kind of moral crusade for the rest of the world. ukraine is a crisis created by the west, and they don't want to have anything to do with it. ah, to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess, george samuel leon, budapest. he's a podcast or the goggle which can be found on youtube and locals. and here in moscow, we cross to pepe escobar. he's an independent geo, political analyst, and author specializing in eurasia are generally cross that rules and fact that means you can jump anytime you want, and i would appreciate it for. let's start out with that be here in moscow. a lot has been made of the international reaction to russia's military operations and ukraine. and i think we all have to read the west is sorely disappointed because people have not got on board with condemning russia now. we had just a few days ago, china came out with its own proposal to resolve the conflicts, more or less blown up by the west,

very much like the west of russian demands before the conflict started in december . the lead demands that were made in december 2021. so what, how do you account for this? i mean, do they no longer believe the western not afraid of the west, they don't hold the same values as the west. how do you see it? well, 1st of all, i am in moscow for one week. now, for me is an enormous privilege to be here because i'm learning so much. i'm talking to a wide spectrum from the highest levels to the men in the streets. and obviously if you are in the west or even if you are in asia, it's absolutely impossible. you have to be here. i see it as the capital of the 21st century and i wrote about it. well, 1st of all, let me concentrate on 3 bricks. very, very important. i will say that these 3 bricks apart from russia are on the forefront of what might be our emerging will to color world. and their reactions

are very different. apparently, china in brazil are interested in playing a role of mediators, but there's an enormous problem. china releases the very detailed piece. glenn 12 point b splash, which of course chinese diplomacy new will be rejected by the west, but the global south state, the tension. and for the global south, china is a responsible global power offering our way out a peaceful way out, which is that directly linked to good chinese, the concept of community of shared benefits form and kind prosperity form in brazil wants to pose as the mediator. but we have lula visiting abiding in washington and lighting up the christ, the redeemer stature, with the ukranian flag real and worse,

voting against russia at the us. so what was the russian reaction? love from master diplomat said we understand that the situation of the brazilian go back a moment, which is true because love, rob knows that little as margins of maneuver is like this. and brazil has been taken hostage by globalist sorrows, davosto by them and destruction altogether. but because deputy foreign minister, he actually said what the russians think your mediation proposal is basically irrelevant. we're not being efficiency, you are paying attention to here in moscow to rush through china, sorry, an india, india of course. in the other 3 of the other 3 large bricks are influential bricks, their position is much more new, whence india is in theory. but the diplomatic support behind russia, as we saw it during the g 20 in new delhi. and of course,

the trade volumes between the ended russia, which keep going up, especially on the energy sphere show that angel understands the rational, officially in all these influences the rest of the global south. glad peter. it's really interesting. these countries that believe in a multiple, a polar world are actually behaving that way because they're not in st. george campaign. go right ahead. well yeah, i was wondering because when we, we talked about india's role in the g 20 on the gaggle a couple of days ago. and it seemed like india had failed. i mean, it either failed to step up to the plate to act as an independent grade power. it has failed because the it prepared a joint statement for the g 20. apparently unaware that by copying and pasting 2 paragraphs from the bali communicate,

that would be fine. and but not only did russia say we're not going to accept least the least 2 pair of but so did the china. so basically there was no joint statement and that was really down to india because if india really wants to be, as they present themselves, the voice of the global south, much more so than china, the voice of the global south than india could. and should have insisted that we will only discuss those items on the agenda that are important to get over the global south with namely, food prices, fertilizer prices, energy prices, debt relief, log pharmaceuticals, patterns and all that kind of stuff. but in the didn't do that, and so i just wonder why didn't india do that? and there are rumors going around that india is now under pressure from george soros, where sorrows goes, there goes the united states and they want to get rid of movie. they don't thing

movies efficiently with the program and that india has been intimidated as we know before that the answers and this is going on at the same time we're trade between india in russia is growing leaps and bounds almost over the course of one year. a unique, huge energy relationship. so kind of echoing georgia question here. i mean, on the diplomatic wanted they were there were some trepidation on other all other brands. it seems like china is already made its decision, pepe. 8 well, peter and george angel was in the same position in new delhi as indonesia was in body going to 20 in body. they were and tremendous aggressive pressure from the combined west, including of course, from the relying representing the european union and european commission as well.

so the indians are it's interesting because what i heard here in law school from source disclose to diplomatic sources is that they also understand the indian position and love rog. talk to jason car before john love rob and josh and kind of they had a fantastic bilateral meeting before the beginning of the, of the g to the new that the foreign ministry summit would be hijacked by the west again. and of course, what he did try to do in the final declaration was i would say i was strategic. it was not very, very clever. it was a copy and paste job. the fact they should have come up with a different decker, but they knew they came with their own by no declaration. ras, it would be immediately rejected. so they tried to look at it both ways. you did, it didn't work because it didn't work. look like a shot, the job, you're absolutely right,

both of you. but at the same time they are postponing. and you know, let's see the clash because they know the clash is going to happen in a few months from now, after she's a visit to moscow. and during and immediately after the break summit in south africa in august. so we have a low at the moment after august i think that the west is going to go completely off scale off rails in terms of freak out. because then we're going to see the situation in the boss. so any completely, i guess to go ahead what, what's the point of the g 20. then let's no point. i mean it isn't quite the g 7 can show up. and hijacking they already have these up and so why i mean, for me is that you can really and that's what's going to happen. and like we only had one voice from the west so far,

basically saying that g 20 is that was all samples are when both of those are at the end of december, he wrote to very, very sharp and, and basically advice to credit suisse and clients. and he actually said that, look, instead of saying briggs 5, i came up with just 7 of these. this is the, the g 7 that really matters. and it's going to be an expanded, is going to be unexplained. the g 20 love rob said this week there are over 2 dozen candidates, one to getting to bricks plus so it's not a doesn't anymore. everybody wants to get into bricks plus a during the vault this week. here i heard this from arabs as well. every body in the arab world wants to be part of bricks. so, so this is the new saying that it again, it could be diluted. i'm not really sure of the point here and then it ends up being a dinner club. george, i quite agree. it does just become

a dinner club and the, you know, particularly as the, you know, the g 7 as you say, be the dominates. and really, this is where the problem is. i mean, well, the united states has laid down on, particularly with the sabotage over the north stream. pipelines is that, you know, this isn't going to tolerate some kind of a new ordering of the world dominated by, you know, china's built and road initiative. and so that you have to get to accept this and therefore the night stage will go ahead and sabotage it in whatever way it can. and that's why when in india comes along and sort of essentially wants to play both sides. well, we're part of the quad, but we're also the voice of the global south. and then when, unfortunately, countries that are clearly in the us cross says and but still make nice with the u

. s. and i'm thinking particularly the, the countries of central asia and who will obviously be part of the built and road initiative. then, you know, i, i, i'm not quite so sanguine as to, you know, how successful this new venture will be? well, we don't, we don't, we don't, we don't know. we don't know how a brick splost is going to be expanded. i love rob already said many times. we need seniors discussions before august. the summit in south africa to finalize the mechanism. this is gonna be very complicated because now they are also dealing with an amputated bricks member, which is brazil. brazil for the moment is not the be in brazil. should be, may be in the short term bella ruse or believe or brazil for the moment. is that in terms of a bricks actor? unfortunately, i have to, i had to recognize this after many red alerts from, i know lula for instance. but, and now it's that, that's it, you know,

it's lost at least for the moment. but the most important thing is get parallel pass being followed by china, russia in india, for instance, india. they are concentrated, not on the bell to roll their concentrating on international or south transportation corridor, which is russia. iran in india, you run becoming a member of bricks like they are becoming a member of the se. oh, we going to have a mag, i push and this is already something that i heard the most of this week. okay. i mean we got to go to a hot breaking for that hard break. we'll continue our discussion on some real with ah ah,

ah ah ah, the kind of liberal agenda received. now it's not really we based, but it kind of ways i religious creed and our child to crowd out to all sorts of realistic practical objections to that vision of creating that kind of city on the hill on.

ah ah welcome back to cross stop where all things are considered. i'm peter. well, this is the home edition. remind you we're discussing some real news. ah, let us go back to georgia in budapest year. i me, it, the west always plays the same tune, either you're with us or you're against us. now, the ukraine is turned into an epicenter for a lot of different things. reason why we're doing this program here. is it ok maybe you know, there are countries that are, are, are trying to take a middle road like india, but i, in the slide is, is very, very evident. is that a more and more countries in the global self, the global majority are saying, now we're going to sit this one out and there are consequences for it and everyone's bracing for it. but if you, if the u. s. wants to sanction the entire world that it's

a futile struggle. george. a we're at a tipping point of some of some nature. yes, i mean there's, there's no question. i think that i owe you the rest of the world has indeed the sad know when all guy guy come home with the sanctions, this isn't our fight. this is, you know, this is a european problem, not a global problem. you want to present as a global problem, but is clear, i mean, that the united states, particularly on the bible, who knows what comes of is presenting a very much a dividing line in the world. i mean, you know, biden is a very divisive president, and just as he's doing a very divisive of the thing in the united states are the, you know, the, these of, of the scum, the unacceptable. and these are the accept or he's doing much the same thing. in the rest of the world that he's saying, you know, you, you have to choose, ah, which side you're on. and it's not like is okay, fine,

we'll do what we want. they're going to come at you. if you don't follow the line and we go, we have the color revolutions always on hand. we've got all the sanctions always on hand, and we have a regime change. i mean, the very fact that they're trying to push a modi out. i mean, mowdy was been me a very, very delicately, a boy in his relationship that is essential with the united states. they are going to really say you have to join with us. if not, then things are going to be very bad for you. well pepe way in on that because, you know, there's been so many countervailing forces in play here. we have votes at the united nations, but love the countries and voted against russia. the united nations want new trade relationships here. i mean, there's so many different things going on simultaneously. i mean, is it maybe that a lot of these countries think that the u. s. in its allies can control the plain called diplomacy, but then the rest of it, it's just, it's,

it's puffin. we're going to go and do what we're going to do because they aren't in engaging in sanctions on the police and the political round. they seem to go along . but what, what really counts, they say, no, we're not going to get involved. i mean, how do a fair characterization? i think it in different latitudes, and this is another thing that struck me here on the sidelines of all die in law school talking to turks, pakistanis arabs, iranians. the more or less you could feel that they were saying, look, some things big is going to happen. so we don't know exactly what it is. so we have to be ready for all sorts of scenarios for them. the number one scenario is trades among them in eurasia, including the arabs, as well, and trying to bypass us sanctions. and of course, the underlying issue trying to bypass the west dollar in the long run. everybody knows this is a very long process,

but the train has already left the station at the same time. this, this means concentration on 3 corridors. so in terms of south america is america sewer. trade core is in terms of russia. you run in the international north south which are hungry ramifications to the caucasus as well. and central asia from india, africa, you stand in central asia and the engines are very much looking terms of enhanced trade for them. let's see the engine version of the silk roads. and at the same time, china already said from at the start of the, the silk or the new. so groups are back this year. there's going to be b, r i summits in beijing later this year as well. this means that chinese investment not only across the erasure but west asia, what we call you used to be the middle east and africa intellectual america are going up in absolutely. everybody's close,

intriguing on 3 the fed because they're just 2nd, if you allow, they know that the american plan a, from our wong is going to be a mix of c, r e, a covert ops attempts that regime change all over the planets live through. well, george, i mean, i thought it was all about democracy, the doctor said maybe a said anything yet, or maybe he's going to get to it. you get my point, charge for it. right, though i think that that's right, and i think that's why i'm there. is it a god of geopolitical global struggle? i mean it's, it's, it's as acute as at any time during the cold war. ah, you have the, basically, the russia, china block of it for the time being that is a block in or with it actually becomes a military alliance or not. but you know, it's kind of, it is a block now. and then you have the basically native land and its various,

some adjuncts around the world, such as japan. this, this nato land blog isn't going to allow russia, china blog to somehow dominate and say, oh, just, you know, continue with trade and, and the, and, and, and so, and, and they become our, our infrastructure, our insulin, they're not gonna do it. i mean, they, you know, we've seen, you know, how they act with like north stream they. so north stream is a big, big geopolitical threat to them. that's why they were sent out the destroyer. and as seymour hersh pointed out, the plan was in place, even before of february, the 24th i was they saw this is a serious threat. that's how they're going to see the, you know, you know, in the future with anything to do with the, the belt and road initiative. so ultimately, many countries are going to have to decide, you know, the, can't just allow russia to do all the heavy lifting. and then they can just sit and twiddle their thumbs and say, well, i'm going to be here with, with the,

the quad one minute. and then i'll be a, with, with the russians the next minutes sir. it is, i think, is going to be very acute of geopolitical struggle. you know, it is something pepe something that georgia i've talked about in our podcast to gaggle. is it, it, this is the 1st time in our life time that a great power. what a great power is challenging another, a great power directly. you always avoid that because if you do that, you could lose ok. when you do, you do it through proxy. you know, you know, you know, put boyer pipelines and all that kind of stuff. you know, but i mean, when you go intel to tow, that's a no, no, you shouldn't do that because it can spell. disaster pepe. well, we're not dealing with the iraq. afghanistan, libya anymore, and we're not dealing with the beginning of the middle part and the ending of the war on terror. we all knew that that was an absolutely fake concept from top to

bottom right. to justify something that they wanted to do in the 1st place, which is take over islamic lance. that happens to be very rich in energy or minerals or bulls. now it's a different story. now it's the ultimate mocking the media and spike when brzezinski, you know, we have our own whole list of jo politicians nightmare. we have not only one peer competitor, eurasia. we have a strategic alliance of 2 peer competitors and they are very strong individually. not to mention together. so can you imagine in the, in those very, very narrow minds, across the beltway, who were born, grew up and live through my kim, they're all their lives. no wonder they're freaking out. because this is the real deal. this is a system. and the emergence of an alternative system all over the world, the emergence of the global sauce in one hand,

but also the emergence offer ancient powers that are coming back to the forefront of the table. in the case of china, they had a small interval of 150 years, which in their millionaire history is nothing. so they are back to the position that they were for most of recorded history. and the case of russia was always a big power for the past 500 years, at least. so for the, for us is also, and of course the rest of the global south are look ok. ok. at least we have a source of languor with the stripping of any ideological reference, but russia and china are the vanguard nowadays for the rest of the planet, trying to find a more equitable. and obviously, as you said, for the elite, the atlanta says deletes this is beyond an optimal, right? it because george, i mean that the west is always portraying it is some kind of ideological struggle and, and the, when they look at, you know,

the cheap minutes. and i think they're real of postwar europe prosperity. a lot, a lot of largest security. and they did it off of brushing energy. so i mean that's why in the say, we might do that too. i said that's not a bad bad way of approaching china also here. but that because the west always covers everything in ideology. i think it for a lot of people in the south it's i have no idea what you're talking about. ok. i we, we, we want to pull the bought a property. i don't know what you're talking about, but we know what we want to do, george? yeah, that's very interesting, but when one side is india logical, i think the other side also has to up the ante a raise the game and make it illogical as well as happened during the cold war. i mean, you have, you know, the etiology of the communist world, so the non communist will have to come up with an alternative, idiology will roster. karl popper as a whole are and you know, was all you created this ideological mix of this is the west,

the anti communist west. so i think something of the, of the sort is happening now, and it's russia, once again, that's articulating an alternative etiology. i mean, we have oversee the decadence of the west, the exploitative of neo colonial west, ah, national sovereignty. and you know, basically the respectful, the, you ensure that it's a, it's a kind of easy, logical mix that the, the russians are cobbling together. we don't fully see the how it's going to shape up, but i think you have to, if one side is waging an ideological spike. well, i mean, maybe we've got 45 seconds here, but ok. because the westman makes it id logical, i think george's right, because these are rules, rules based order book isn't all that there is going to be a i think a fundamental and unified reaction to that. it's in the cards. go ahead, pepe yes. well, the chinese concept is community for a shared future for mankind,

which when you break it all down it's, it's peaceful warden. isaiah should peaceful trade and peaceful relations according to the un charter, which is not respected by the west as a whole, especially by united states. and the russians have of the constant of greater, you regional partnership, which is basically a unified eurasia, including the peninsula called europe. everybody doing trade out a lot china, right. which is something that puts the proposed me 2007 at the munich security conference. and nobody paid attention so that they intersect in what they would like to have in terms of, of a new system. and as you said in georgia, you're almost out of time, but it was, they will never accept. it is absolutely right. you know, on the, you know, you ration landmass that little part on the, in the, in there that's called europe. and that's how it's going to become irrelevant. that's all the time we have. i want to think, my guess in budapest and here in mosque, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here. are the see you next time? remember,

possibles ah with ah, the claims of the king of the belgians leopold the 2nd to the congo were finally authorized by the leading european countries in 1885. in the very heart of the african continent. a state under the rule of the belgian monarch was declared since the beginning, the congo free state was total,

may him for the local population and functioned as a universal concentration camp. the majority of the population, including women and children, were forced to work on the rubber plantations. those who failed to fulfill their quota were beaten and mutilated. to keep the congolese people under control, the king set up the so called for spook leak, which were punitive detachments that cast terror on the captured country and its inhabitants. fearing that their subordinates would simply waste bullets hunting for wild animals, the officers demanded that the soldiers gave an answer for every bullet used. and as proof presented a chop hand of an african. it was not uncommon when trying to justify the use of the ammunition, the colonist amputated the hands of not only those who were dead, but also of those who were kept alive. the atrocious exploitation of the congo turned into

a real genocide in only 20 years. the policy of the belgians led to the death of nearly 10000000 people alongside the holocaust, that genocide of the congo population is considered to be one of the grimmest pages in the history of mankind. ah ah, whoa. whoa, welcome to world apart after day, can't just congratulating itself on the long peace europe is now in the midst of a blood and possibly quite protracted conflict. what led to it and how long it may