[000:00:00;00] ah, i can. i'm after tansy and welcome back to going under gambrell, gusting all around the world for dubai in the u. e. a multi polar transformation of the world was confirmed at the 1st of march g, 20 foreign ministers meeting in india, in effect, nato members and their alleged puppets. vito to joint communicated, might've indicated unity in the face of threats like climate change in band amex. the summit in new delhi followed refusals by india, china, and those represent vote for you and resolution demanding russia be defeated in the u. s. his proxy war through ukraine. joining me now as a politician for prime minister modi's ruling barrett, he had you not a party of b, j. p. in india. unlike moody, he supports the nature line on ukraine, doctors, romanian swami form

a cabinet minister and 6 term regis. i am p as in new delhi. thank you so much suburban the of her coming back on. i mean, last time you were on the show, they were slamming u. k. colonialism. and now, now you seem to be completely supporting your old colonial master, the britain. and the european colonial must is on the ukraine proxy war. what, what do you got against this rise of the global south? finally? yeah. winning the day. yeah. well, 1st of all, law brittany is following the american light. and i'm not calling burton list in tandem with the americans on bog die. they're the fundamental question is that a green is a independent united nations member. and there has been a crossing of our soldiers army and so on by a country which is considered as one of the permanent members of the supreme. now

the security council, it is so and a so now and therefore i think it would be, must be, i mean, you can't allow defense less in the substances, so you don't buy it as a whole. you don't see at all what other countries in the global south do, which was this was need to encroachment in the east and that there was a qu, we have the phone call evidence of victoria newland now in the by the state above. and you don't believe up the north stream pipelines of like nations and mentioned, and i'm not saying that i know for sure either way. but the fact is that the back would have been taken up with the united nation. so that became un security council resolution to 202. i mean they're, you're being quite equivocal. so you are supporting movies like your brain and then we can talk all the, all the coming up at that stage. but not, you know, to think that since the u. s. lead to in 2014,

the continued attacks on don bass. you think russia should just have allowed them to erase those who spoke russian and on bus. i said that as we know from merkel in the midst records were a way of them arming to fight don't bass. and the issue, the issue is not that the issue is the use of the army to cross a international boundaries. and there is not the issue of what was well, what wrong the, your opinions did not show that one stage, there was a person who was their president and he was doing all kinds of things. but the fact of the matter is the, there are some ground rules of the united nations, and you don't cross the national boundary. and i shall, i don't think. and i shot, made a big issue international issue because we in india are the new, the russians out of problem,

the kind that you just mentioned in ukraine. will them? why do you think it is that the majority of humanity is represented in the united nations? don't vote the u. s. is way in numbers, numerical terms, of course they do follow and of course, people in the global cell call them vessel states that follow washington. but those that represent the majority of humanity, india, china, the big, the big countries that you have sent it, they didn't, they don't go along with the view that russia should just immediately withdraw. and this has to happen before any negotiations happen. why prime minister of india has come a little distance by saying the washer. this is not time for what you should in the war, even that the russians are not doing. so i wouldn't say india is not on the opposite side. in the, in fact, i thank you brain for the fact that they assisted us to evacuate all our students and then cooperated us the,

our numbers here and they are fully active here. by the fact is that indian position is not. i mean indians trying to, we will, it's in this and i say you, you lose both ways. in this, you've got to take a stand. i know you're with the russians are, you know, with the americans and your stand is clearly with the americans. is, does that mean that in a sense, your supporting the old order because it's been said many times as you know at the shang, i cooperation, organization meetings, at bricks, meetings all across latin america or africa, southeast asia. that a new world is coming. that the days of iraq, syria libby, afghanistan, those interventions are over and i don't know whether you similarly condemned. of course, the americans and the british for invading afghanistan, libya, iraq and syria,

across the mutually agreed line of actual control. and to our land in, in the dark i was supposed to consider as one of the best friends of china in india . i of course, have specialized in china. i speak chinese, a written books on the chinese economy. and i like them, they watch. but what they did, it left us all speechless. they're just crossed on or they didn't just ross you. the indians a took him to the armor i think was i think no, no lack in the sixty's utilize. you know, going back to what you were talking about, the 2020. and though you're talking about 2020, when it was all agreed that there would be 1995. we agreed to a line of actual control. we checked that neither side said legally are a no solve the problem, the border, but they said that we will not,

i will to wall for this and we'll talk so to lend the status or as it existed, then i will draw a line of action control the chinese mileage of that and crossed it in 2020 you know, as of the blank is going to love. i love the said the clearly he's going to want you to be prime minister. so you think china should have just gone along with the fact that there are how many bases us basis surrounding surrounding china and you think china was fine with the 28 in the u. s. newton corporation deal. the 2016 logistics exchange. memorandum of agreement in u. s. a. just 16. 2017 us quarter lateral security dialogue in the u. s. japan and australia. 2018 comcast, a u. s. dialogue, military equipment for military agreement. all these agreements in 2020 back and see if i was china. i'd be saying india is the enemy here is basically become the vessel states that australia, new zealand, japan,

south korea as well. and that you can see, in fact, a lot of people are saying, you know, on the, on the face of it, you know, there are some assignments in having a line of actual control. and yeah, but i mean, i might say china is too lenient on india. and after those deals should have said, the original agreement that was signed in the ninety's should be really good. india is become part of the problem. well, i see it as far as china's problem with taiwan. we're not supporting taiwan as a, as an independent country, or we are not supporting it to be as an independent art or indian country independent country. we are sticking to the 1950s. think we then enter into the whole congress, washington policy to tactically. oh, there is a well, no, actually that's washington policy. no, no. in reality they have

a huge presence in iraq. and they are a huge presence in, in hong kong to, i mean, the commercial sense. but i mean, that is all the most you can recognize is tie. one is what a china just as india does. but in effect as to which i support the united states to country, i'm very familiar with them and it's easy to talk to them. and i, they are more frank and straightforward. i had a much of a difficulty with the russians when the new, when i went in new york master game here. and i can, he was very nice to me. but in the end, he told me that we still bear a lot of that just against you with the soviets, by the way, so was union was against me. from the day i came back from america, and every one of the publications made out there was an agent america. and then

later on there began saying it was an into china. so these are, these are things that are said politicians, but the fact is that i come back to the question, you have crossed international line. now before that is like the fight, nothing is just the we discussed. this is how i would approach the you said the same as you get when germany recognized gray. sure. and the sort of you could level i didn't because of a well, that's the same thing. i'm going to just say you just said, is the limit. you said there's a limit, what is the united? i know that russian oil imports to india hit a record high for february from the figures only this week. if biden blew up all the pipelines and all the transportation links of gas energy to india, would that be the limit like he's allegedly done with the north stream supplying germany's energy as they do, that means you're going from why don't i don't think we have good relations with

iran, you know, despite the americans not being very happy with i think, you know, you have seen this, you're putting this in a black and white says scenario that i know you become a basil st. paul, you're opposed to live on the united states. there's no middle ground. what you're suggesting. i am not j here. i would love. i love to be on good relations or russians. i admire that my expectations. i learned a lot of economics because you had brilliant mathematicians. ah, but then the know now it's not that any more. ah, it's a, i'm the world is seeing russia as a junior partner of china. well, i mean, i'm china and russia don't say that that's the case. what is he trying to needing roach in the energy resources? focus romani, and why me? i'll stop you. the more from the veteran

b g p. politician up to this break to what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy confrontation, let it be an arms race is often very dramatic. development only personally and getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very political time. time to sit down and talk with ah, welcome back. i'm still here with dr. romanian swami, 6 term roger saba, m p in india's ruling

b j. p. you tweeted your 10000000 followers that india basically should follow them all these boot on the so called new communist party run nepal. this is the kind of resolution a that should be supported. russia and immediate would rule what, why this was in india be part of a team like the mold using boot on and nepal instead of instead of russia, china of africa, vietnam, bangladesh, queue. all these other countries representing world affinity of nearby don i was, she learned, i tell you, don't think that book john and them all leaves voted that way against russia because they thought that to do you don't think washington told them they, they went against india and that was something which never happened before. are you be treat him as for like you mentioned 3 lanka there. i india. i mean, i don't know how much

a leverage the i m f and world bank in the economic k confessions of an economic hit man on the show. and he talks about how the world bank and i m f, treat developing world countries. and now you've been celebrating sir lanka again, getting into debt into the washington institutions. what have you got against the bricks bank? bridge bank by they are hours or heard the president position out by the minister of india. but i took the stand that died left harder to come to india. now understanding yet while getting out in their new their bricks bank to new delhi, i would be happy to you know, it. what is that, what i'm saying is that the i hated or any of the countries which i'm a posey and they, as i told you, i was extremely well on a very good relationship with china. didn't all any government issues at that time except of that member of parliament. and then for the i, i, i felt

a read the chinese did what the other chinese as it premiums and presidents didn't don't. and this has created a thing on which i have to take the indian stand, a national, a national interest stand, and i've taken it on a harsh me on china. i will, china also we gates all these areas and we can go back to being with friends and then how, how is it going to hate these areas which they say are there is now, if a politician's like yourself continue to appear to be vast. so politicians of the security state of the united states again and again, you don't need to recognize what leverage with the chinese formulas just been saying this week. they see this existential threats by nato. the military bases with the massive american spending for base is all around the global self from like

from 1972 to about 2005. i would say china is much more of a vessel united states state than we ever ever. we. the fact is that we are not a vast and state law. it's not going to provoke me to feel bad about it because you are known as a i know you're very much liked in india as a, as a command. and i, when you, when you are worse, and because i think you're going to be chased to your union, this also can be traced to us so that, that is so what i'm saying is, please don't get into this question of extremes. i'm not for a mass instead, i'm not for an enemy who is with india, who certified with india. i would be happy to with them in the chinese had not come and take an hour in 2020. our staff would have been quite different and just in 5

me. so today i cannot sell the idea that i shall, can you know or kill people in the, in the ukraine and that we should keep quiet. and i can tell you, what are the government may say that vast majority of indians want us to site. you play. arguably, the vast majority of indians may be going on strike in the, of the largest strike in history, the pharmacy, the pharmacy, when they go out again, you mentioned actually in the diaspora as you say, i am of a d and ancestry, but it's also common that reasonably common that people have indian ancestry that embraced the colonial masters. and i don't know what you think a re she soon ex policy. so you agree with richie so neck clearly that we must support nato. we must supple washington at all costs. what do you think of the fact? uranium imports from russia into the usa are exploding. you is continuing to

import masses of a russian energy who's paying. i mean, india is paying for the bullets from russia because the massive a record oil buying by india. but the united states and you is paying for the russian war as well, to the show, the complete contradiction, and all this, well, i mean, buying are from russia. if you today, india had an alternative, we would stop by now, you'd want alia to stop buying energy from russia. and i would say that i would say that if you do not listen to india, even on a simple thing like, i mean, the spirals are withdrawn from a small country called ukraine, than you really don't cancel the deal. is he and i have to re evaluate our positions we, we are with the united states, not because the united states is

a be out of out of state. we refuse to have them on the stand. they wanted us to bring troops, they said they will use this to not that free of charge. we said no, we will not participate with the troops in palestine. i mean, i says continues to give weapons to pakistan, but still there are circumstances which have been created by which we need to be in better relations with united states. 3rd thing is the average union finding much more value will go to united states to study than any other alert. and so we have to maintain some really good relations with the united states so that people can go and learn about sciences in the united states. so, i mean, there are so many factors, you see, you're putting it in black and white, and that's your right. but i'm saying the issue is not black and white. we can tomorrow become a united states,

but i don't see any way the americans have harmed our national interest in any way . we don't think that the chinese have, and the chinese seem to control the russians because the russian language and a, and it's behavior recently in our bilateral meetings about what china india is very, very negative. as far as their concern. though not natal, according to prime minister moody, is saying, i don't know if you're just are you going to join the congress party? you sound a little gun, leila. don't, don't say to my enemies who are constantly trying to send me to the a the congress party. i'm in the process of sending sonya going to the jail on a production charge along with the sun. yes. yeah, and i said it was, but you're on the same side when you want to be fated in washington. arguably, there's a china piece deal, and i recognize what you said about in the not sending troops to afghanistan and

not joining in the destruction of the beer of syria of iraq, tens of millions. i don't know how vocal you were against the u. s. foreign policy, india certainly was, but isn't that the point is an arc of history and what no render moody is doing today? joining with china with, although lula, president, lula brazil has been on this program, has been making different sound. so it's difficult for any leader to oppose u. s. foreign policy. this is the arc of history, isn't it? that the students who want to study in america, they do talk about the learning from a dying? no, listen, that i did. none of these are the decisive factors. the decisive factor you want to know is the chinese crossing the ls, he and plumbing and occupying are judging. that is shown went through this, the beget, sorry to interrupt the 3, but we went through this. i went through all these deals, nuclear corporation in 20 o 8

a deal signed between india and the united states. what do you think china's going to do? allow india to launch nuclear weapons at major. yeah, and you're talking about the line of actual control after you by our territory. they can have more you nuclear weapons and them facing india. i don't mind that. i think i think the intermediate, i believe that just because we had a piece in fact by doing a lot of people in india was that saying that you will harm our nuclear weapons program by this one of the conditions that the american that what would in effect a destroy a our progress in moving towards a nuclear arsenal. you see because we have sodium and that for your my if we are able to convert it, decided it up for the nuclear weapons. i think so we have 60 percent who was her attorney, and you would have been

a totally different situation. all that we give up for the sake of nuclear for electricity. so i will not say that they, the chinese should have been, they should have been happy that the americans are now a nuclear program. yeah. and so india has been continually since 20 o 8 through the 2, thousands. moving in a way that is going to alarm anyone opposed to washington foreign policy, whether it be in the middle east, in north africa, all over. i mean, i just want to know back to back to you grain. and we got to remember, bricks used to be ricks, russia, india, china, before it became brick. do indians don't even know about the victoria newland phone call? can they didn't they don't go on to you tube and heard victorian union choose who is going to lead ukraine after the u. s. back who,

which was the start of this current proxy war. wow. one of the you will take us seriously. i will not see and do indians take seriously the idea the joe biden, antony blinking jake sullivan, victoria newland, and the see a bomb the north street pipeline. is it that i a to different teach and, and when we truly are being well, it's kind of important, isn't it that given that the biggest, it will finally draw something that though it's important, something that we will put it into our computer for future. notice it's by design, something that we get, get it all by. if somebody says that we will decide who will be what and so on. well, i'm pretty sure 9, i would do more than that if india's pipelines and india. and i don't see why i don't see why china just back and do what we had agreed in 1095 and then change the whole climate. you know,

we've been through that the previous interview where what your doing is in effect, divide and rule by washington. if you continually isn't that what moody has recognized that imperial powers, imperial washington realizes they can split the joint power powers of india and china. and you are falling into that trap. maybe it's your american education. we had it, it's just like i value that the education i was taught than by nobel laureates and became a family man in our expense to them. but the fact is that a, i b had extremely good relations with china. from 1952. 1962. we gave up our claim. i mean, we were offered the national, the security council, a holding seat, which is really after china became communist,

near reagan said we can give it to them. we turned it down and campaigned every year that it should be given to china. a signed a treaty against everybody's wishes on to match in b. so saying to bedford b autonomous, we said not the biggest part of china and me so much by in 2003 said even the mom or truncated and it would be and the chinese have done that. they have broken parts of it, get it done to grow in so, or something in situ, on it yet, it's like that now to read is a much smaller place. so all these we were going along with, ah, by the coming and the baking, the mutually agree treatment r a t j and then cross across and take these areas and meds as, as he didn't. so years i've been, i think that was the chair that we can swallow. well,

china says that they are biding by it and of course things have come down since those are terrible events from a couple of years ago. dr. to remind swami. thank you. that's it. for the show will be back next saturday, 9 years of the day crimea voted to be bought of russia, following the u. s. back coo and p. have until then you can keep in touch my role as social media. it's not sense it in your country, but you can always head to our channel going underground tv on rumble, dot com to watch new and old episodes going underground very soon. ah ah, why watch something that's so different. my little opinion that you won't get anywhere else. talk of it please. i do have the state department, the c i a weapon friend ah,

the largest us bank to collab since the 2008 financial crisis. leave scores of companies that individuals holding the bag with calls for immediate government intervention. also ahead of the shell went right through the car right here and right through this seat. as you can see, the blood is still there. a father and son are killed in don, yet that civilian infrastructure again, comes under ukrainian show like anger boiled than the u. k. as a b b c. host suspended from work over criticism of the government's new bill on