ah ah ah ah hello and welcome to crosstalk, where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle. china has performed a master stroke of diplomacy. it is broker in agreement that we'll see a ran and saudi arabia again reestablish diplomatic relations. this could be a step not only to reorder the middle east, but also usher in an air of stability in the region. today, washington is the odd man out with

cross sucking piece making. i'm joined by my guest, muhammad mirandi intern. he's a professor at the university of throne and beijing. we have andy mock. he is a senior research fellow at the center for china and globalization, and in brussels. we crossed a peri manual tollman. he is a lecture at lee all university, or a gentleman cross hoc rolls and the fact that means you can jump any time you want . and i always appreciate, let's go to andy 1st in beijing, it's an amazing story, a master stroke of diplomacy. like i said in my introduction, we could see a reordering of the middle east and bringing stability there, which the western powers about only instability for the last 50 years. so it's an amazing accomplishment. but it, how confident are you that this, this of arrangement will hold? water will move forward because you do know that there are many enemies of this a gambit and it will be tested. go ahead, andy. no, that's absolutely true,

peter. so 1st of all, thank you for having me on. i think that this is a milestone. it is a breakthrough, but it is only a 1st step. and as you say, there are many, many challenges on the road ahead and yet i think it is cause for optimism and hope as while he said, this is a victory for dialogue. this is a victory for peace. and we know that peace loving countries all round the world support this, and countries that are more committed to violence and warfare do not. and we have to see how things are ultimately play out. but again, i think it's caused re norma's optimism and hope today. on that note, i'm home and in toronto, what are your thoughts? i mean, you've been on this program since its inception, and we have talked about how western meddling in the middle east has caused. so much tension bloodshed and dis outright, a disaster for the region. this is an amazing step forward. western media is never

giving it to me that the coverage it deserves here. because it works so much against their narrative mohammad, your thoughts go ahead. we have to remember that a bit over 3 years ago, the saudis sent a letter to the iraqi prime minister to as a part of a process to bring about rapprochement and the general. so the money right, travel to bagdad, to, to meet the prime minister at 8 am to discuss the letter to find a solution between iran and saudi arabia. and he was murdered by tom. so after that, after that crime a while a bit later, the iraqis again tried to facilitate some sort of dialog, dialog began between iranian and so the officials, there was some progress,

but they didn't go all the way. so what happened was the president, she, when he went to saudi arabia, in discussions with saudi leaders, a spoke about a mediation, and the before president re sees a recent trip to beijing for this state visit the, the chinese want to ask to see if the writers were ready for them to mediate if they would accept chinese mediation and the iranians. during the talks in beijing, the iranians, the running president accept it. after that, we saw intense negotiations in beijing, which a while back a week ago. and the results are that the 2 countries, iran is saudi arabia will you start ties and that goes against the interests of the united states and israelis. and sadly,

many in europe who do not even understand what their own interests are. you know, with the mirror it's very interesting. i was looking at some of the fine print that has been released here. and fundamentally it is to respect each other's sovereignty . that something that doesn't come out of western capitals any more. ok, respecting each others, each others are sovereignty. even when there are many, many problems still to me need to be resolved. let's go to piri manual in paris. you know, when i, when i was reading a accounts of this story, when it was being broken, you know, what thought came through my mind is a suez 1956. and this is, i think on that level here to remind our audience last the french and the, the british to or took over the suez canal. and the us said, get the hell out of there. if you have no, you're violating sovereignty here. and that was the end of the british and french in the middle east. from that time forward,

i think what basing is done. an extraordinary accomplishment is, is a $56.00. so as moment go ahead, parent manuel. i think you're right. this is reflecting a change in the ga or older, a girl by lever, especially v for he crisis in ukraine. where o b, behind the cross is in ukraine, you have a rising confrontation between the united states on russia of cools or show, potentially between united states and china. and in means a global leader that are many t r, toes between power serve, influence zones. county are, are subject to, to distribute musician to fragmentation and come a t, r tour of war. it can be the case of coca, most of santa on asia,

over board cons, but ukraine of cool. so sanchez, sandtown on eastern europe and also middle east. and i think the saudi, an iranian the relies that in vista, arising confrontation between or a u. s. and dirt, china and russia, morris on the other side, are they your, they will be the loser of his situation if they go at war a travel between. so he'll be on the ran. and this is a way to, to avoid it, or to become a charge of action, like in your group, for example, i think those or saw him in and of a fact all is votter or saudi arabia. i would try a promo to regime change in syria of cool. so again, so iranian untrue us and her, this succeeded, you weaver rashaw and the basic county or the wall,

or we were, we were russians and do a saudi arabia. so abandoned is raising chance policy on relies, but the united states on european st. cannot any mo, er insurance or are in a major way or meter least and do they? yeah, well i mean, apparently now he, well, we were the reason i agree with you because the, the, the, your american european position has not brought peace to the region. okay. it hasn't, it's a matter of fact, it is sabotaged piece for decades in the region. and that's why we all should welcome beijing's gambit here. andy, let me go to you. i mean, what's, what's really important about this and western audiences are not going to be told this. that's why i'm telling anyone that's watching is that china is not taking sides. see the u. s. always take sides and says it's a mediator, which is absolutely nonsense. okay. that's what makes it's, it's the beauty of the deal if it works. but that's the beauty of it. china is

saying we are a real, honest broker andy. no, that's absolutely correct. and i think not only does the us take sides, i had actually manifest a very arrogant and narcissistic view of the world in that it is looking to promote what it calls democracy, quote unquote universal human rights. which really is just a very narrow, parochial view of the world and impose that on the rest of the world are through its efforts. and i, your recently tweeted that, so the problem with the american leadership is it's dubious character and even more dubious motivations. and we see that china is, is foreign policy. as you mentioned, it is founded on mutual respect and respect for sovereignty. and i think it was long e also that said i eat country must be free to choose its development past. and i

think it's for this reason that countries like iran, like saudi arabia, like russia, like ukraine, are willing to work with china because they do recognize that china does not have this arrogance or this narcissism, but indeed, is trying to make the world a better place a more peaceful place, you know. mm hm. and, you know, they, it's no secret the differences of between around in saudi arabia. but, i mean, i, i respect both for coming to the table and talking about sovereignty and security. you can disagree on a lot of other things, but those are the 2 most important things. and it shows a lot of courage on both sides and on the side of, of china because it's not going to be easy to do. they're not, they don't have hard power to enforce anything, it's their good will and their soft power. that's the difference between china now in the west today. go ahead mohammed. i think there's also another element as well . and that is that the united states is being seen increasingly as

growing weak, but also the united states is being seen as indifferent towards its friends and allies. when the americans withdrew from afghanistan or son, they dumped their friends and allies and countries like saudi arabia, the united arab emirates, and others across the world. took note of that. and while the iranian showed the negotiations were taking place in beijing last week, we saw georgia and the events in georgia and how a government and parliament that is friendly to the west. right. and no ally of the russians how it was severely attacked by americans and the europeans, simply because they wanted to impose their sovereignty simply

because they were not 100 percent obedient. and the saudis take note of that even being friendly to the united states does not mean that you're safe and secure from the wrath of the americans and make you. all right, gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break, and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on peace making. stay with our d. ah ah. every year on august, the 16th hundreds of people gather in the center. agree go to commemorate the land fans who fault with nazi germany in beth and assist attachments during world war 2 . this day is known as legion in a day. i see tooth really come on when you get the bill. come on,

the leasing that was with me. paula just got started with advocates. if the veterans claim the lengthy and soldiers had nothing to do with the trustees committed against jews, despite historical evidence, to prove that contrary with coca cola, with boldness, and like a socialist, russia concluded with . welcome back to cross stock where all things are considered. i'm peter bell to remind you we're discussing peacemaking the

okay, let's go back to brussels up here in menu. well, i keep stressing peacemaking here and with reproach. amount of the saudis and the iranians. we have the possibility of finally bringing peace to yemen. and i think that's an important part of what, what the derivative outcome of this piece process could be. and that would be something that would be i absolutely need it, obviously for the people of the m and, but could diffuse other conflicts in the region which have been stoked again, i'll say by western powers for decades. so this is a, an opening, an opportunity to end to conflict that is drawn on way too long. go ahead and brussels. yes, that's right. this is a no putting but are really good us, easy. oh, good me implemented because as you said, we are many openness tourists are to was dieter or i think there was, wasn't of

a facto where we didn't mention is that to be united states wanted to put pressure on saudi arabia to or on the oil crises or, or to, to a bicycle shade to punish russia elsewhere. and are the saudis refused or sold because a don't want, or a u. s. to with too much leverage on the on prices and or, or so or the europe, the rising of asia as her as power broker. we've, china is not only are v are action of sinker, country china, but the social and i tell not to, with the globalization, which is emerging weaver as shown. guy corporation, organization, right? for example, an old as jesse countries would like to join because, or is not dominated by western institutions, may need a u. s, but also member states in europe or u. k. france,

or germany. and or they would like to reserve real problems more peacefully. we balance of power and not a weaving or western institution were created by the us and on your parents. like, you know, united nations, which is many in a west on globalization and or, or china of course, is taking the lead in the so i'm not sure globalization, eurasia, and we are going to see if this will lead to over opening and resort ocean of conflicts between or so, or china on pakistan for example. tonight we've noticed about pakistan west, i'd happy with his deeds, so he can, they are in effect a heck and can have a current and they can have a demonstration effect for the entire entire region. and far beyond is go back to andy and beijing. beijing is on kind of a piece making tour. i mean, and had

a 12 point program for ukraine. again, western capitals dismissed it out of hand. they probably didn't even read it. ok, let's be honest. okay. and now we have this breakthrough with saudi arabia in rent . i mean, this is the world is beginning to pay attention. there are some countries that use their military leverage to divide countries of start cover, colored revolutions and whatnot. and beijing, as a disinterested partner, i mean, you know, they, they have equal distance from the, from the partners that are negotiating. and that is a, that is a demonstration of fact that the world can look to because the world has become extremely unstable with nato's war against russia. and, and we've seen how the global south or the global majority as i like to call it, is reacting. so we're at an inflection point here. i think andy, we absolutely are, and i think i also want to go back to quick. i was made earlier that china is an honest broker,

and it does rely on moral suasion. but that is not enough on china and also brings i think some very important material advantages to the table as well. so of course, china's market for oil is important for saudi arabia for iran, but also china's ability to deliver high quality complex infrastructure projects where we're talking about 5 g or a more traditional types of infrastructure ports, et cetera on time and on budget, are very valuable incentives the compliment, i think it's honest broker status and it's because of this that we are seeing this example effect and i completely agree with you peter, that the world deeds great examples needs to be inspired and ah, you know, hopefully the good guys are winning and the warmongers,

the people that engage in subversion or interference in other countries affairs ah, will start to are you to diminish? yeah, it is a, i agree mohammed. they're also in the fine print here is that saudi arabia with it's kind of tango with israel. and the abraham accord, so called, which i think is just an excuse for the us to stay in the middle east and there ply into minions in the, in the, in the region. but the, the, the through this process of mediation is that saudi arabia has to, for our 1st recognize a independence palestinian state, which is again putting it back on the agenda where the west so conveniently, likes to forget about it. go ahead moment. yes, the, the united states would like to see divisions in the region as many as possible. and the, the objective of the united states is to have the israeli apartheid regime have

domination over the neighboring countries. and it's quite interesting that these talks and the agreement between iran and saudi arabia, in beijing, it almost comes at the worst possible moment for the united states. and israel is on the one hand, you see a extremely right wing government empower in tel aviv a government that even it's western allies are having difficulty are not criticizing. they don't, they don't traditionally criticize the regime, but it's becoming so bad that even the in the united states, you see criticism of the, of the current regime, the, that in your regime. and that is the behavior of israel right now is making it increasingly difficult for countries in the arab world, among others, to maintain ties with the regime. so it actually,

this rock roche mom with iran make, puts the saudis in a much better position with regards to american pressure to move towards israel. and it makes it, and it marginalizes israeli regime even more so it works to iran benefit in further marginalizing the regime. and in addition to that, the united states benefit from all these divisions, it sounds weapons, it is able to yeah, us fort worth. we know that the genocidal warren yemen was given a green light. i mean, the americans gave the saudis a green light. obama gay, so he's a green light. carry out to initiate the war. it came roughly during the time when we were in vienna for the j. c, p, o, a nuclear negotiation, so the americans, they lose the military, industrial complex loses money. this railey regime becomes more marginalized

and the united states, which is already on the decline, has further difficulties in the region. and now we see this banking crisis in the united states. nothing is looking good for the americans, whether in west asia, west asia or across the world, you know, yeah, piri manual you, you run it up earlier, which i think is really fascinating. and, you know, andy is also an expert in globalization, but there are, there are multiple globalization is going on. the, the one inspired by the west is broken down. it's failed because it doesn't serve everyone. but we now have in asia, we have some of the most important countries you mentioned pakistan. iraq is also part of this here. you know, it took a long time, but i've always said my program here. if you give the, the players in the region with outside interference and outsiders may choosing sides. and having a broker like china come in, not choosing sides and not completely disinterested care of building infrastructure

. you make money. i agree with and he's point there. but this gives globalization a new lease on life because it's reducing tensions. and that's what you need for a successful globalization. go ahead and brussels. yes, that's right. are actually good. china, the promot. he served a seed con road project as an i turn achiever. we're western globalization because or united states on these european nannies, where are the masters of for mara, timer lames, and do in case of conflict or, or china could be blocked or on the, on the seas. so it needs, it needs a continent approach, shirts for trade or so forth. agencies and do, at the same time, are russia also promotes greater you raise your project, which is in synergy with china. but that's the same time connecting new with india

to come to balance or so china, because even on china are earth to giver in, you know, in an audience to get out to western powers out of a ratio video. so our competitors, but what we see there are between russia, india, china, or pakistan or oh, you rock no, you run, it's like a balancing power here. and instead of trying to impose a unit, put our water is to accept mercy, put our re key, and to priority mean stability there, you know, and we have one more minute here. so we have the mediation at the behest of a beijing. we have a ukraine piece like what else is on the agenda? because i'm sure you watch western media, china's are getting ready to conquer the world. you know, it's the, the contrast couldn't be greater. go ahead and i think one very important point to

mention is the decline of the dollar and the rise of the middle east. we see with seas trip, ah, saudi arabia, other countries in the us read are now increasingly willing to use the un in settlement for oil. and i think this will have profound repercussions that will be reinforced by china's diplomatic initiatives in the region as well. i'm a also a, again, you know, i like the stress you talking about now national security as it comes about when you have sovereignty. and when you have free trade, you don't live in a world where you're sanctioned. because about quote unquote bad behavior. when the, when the country that is sanctioning you is committing even worse behavior here. this is a, this is a segue out of this dead end that we've seen in the post more era. and i think where it's a, this mediation between saudi arabia and iran is a very good 1st step gentlemen, that's all the time we have. i want to thank my guests interact in brussels and in

beijing. and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here. are key, see you next time. remember, cross knuckles ah ah ah, ah, ah ah, ah ah .

in 1884, the german empire began its colonial invasion into nam may be from the very start. berlin encouraged the white colonists to settle in south west africa and take away the best land from the local tribes. the germans were actively draining natural resources and using the local population as a cheap labor source. this was causing major protests and led to a rebellion. in 19 o 4, the hero and nama tribes rebuild against german colonial rule. kaiser wilhelm, the 2nd was fully determined in order to suppress the rebellion with the utmost severity against the inhabitants of namibia. germany through is 15000 well equipped army, all around the country concentration camps were built. in humane medical experiments

over citizens were conducted within the period of 4 years. the germans killed up to 60000 people, among which there were 80 percent of the hero tribe, and 50 percent of the nama tribe. the events in south west africa are called the 1st genocide of the 20th century, and not without reason are compared to the holocaust just 2 decades later after the massacre in nam may be a hitler's assault unit put on the same brown colonial uniform which push the world into the chasm of the 2nd world war ah

riga capital city of the republic of latvia, the country gained independence on march, the 16th. now thousands of people have gathered in the city center near the freedom monument ever since. and how does democratic olympia celebrate? every spring, the country has now been a member of both the european union and nato for several years. the nell very few surviving legionnaires who served in latvian vanessa as divisions. 2 march solemnly under national flags and making their way to the country's main monument. there accompanied by a large crowd of loyal supporters and admirers to the strains of nazi style marches, and songs and number of officials and individuals lay memorial weeks at the base of

the monument. as they joined the commemoration of remembrance day. it's a day when respect paid to fallen and surviving volunteers for hitler's ass. yeah, there was a time when this was even considered a national holiday. 0 last, always go up off the auto shift at all god that the jane both got in the death. but rich and good, then 5 material on thursday. if you, you're going yet. law. her daughter, this is your foot on the door. fontinella with a full of virginia sil, simon. he at the genuine which have known it. i said the subtle, i gotta 1st was chucky a threats i spoke with. however, officials from latvia and some other democratic european states still play an active part in these celebrations, which some claim.