we tabby, national oil company, one of the world's largest oil companies, and a major exporter of liquefied natural gas. in december 2021 at note, was invited to enter a joint venture to create an oil and gas term, new in the ukranian pulse. odessa, for transportation to western countries, the announcement came a month off, the chief executive of the ukrainian state energy company, nafta. guess you are, if a trend co told an abu dhabi energy conference that he hopes to rush in nurturing to pipe on in to europe, which bypasses ukraine, would not be approved. he said that ukraine stood to lose $2000000000.00 per year, about 1.5 percent of its g d p. if the russian pipe was operational, claiming that nor string to is actually putting the whole continent and global security at risk. one expert says, these organizations operate in a gray area, often outside the law. live do you ship in the black water case has not been solved . i think the americans are investigating the case, but insignificant information about the investigation,

procedure and compensation issues comes from different sources. i heard that some citizens receive compensation while others did. not. all this is caused by the weakness of the government and protecting it citizens. we now know that the war was based on a lie. there were no w m days, and saddam had nothing to do with $911.00. but the legacy of the invasion can you 20th on the 1st with all the fire. all that's all for me today. up nice, rory. so she will be with you at the top of the hour for a

glowing welcome to cross stock or all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle. the international criminal court is accused russia of committee. more crimes and ukraine, of course, the biden administration could not be more pleased. the i c, c, u. c. that's a long history of doing washington's bidding. the same court washington refuses to be part of a discuss these issues and more. i'm joined by my guess, george samuel in budapest. he's a podcast or at the goggle which can be found on youtube and locals. and in america we crossed to martin j. he's an award winning journalist, an commentator for a gentleman, cross up rules, and the fact that means you can jump in and tell me one. and i always appreciated when i start out with george in budapest. i'm. i'm so i'm sure you're not surprised . say any more than martin and our audience that these are what indictments

accusations are. it have been leveled against russia. i'm please explain what the international criminal court is, because after all the united states is not in the ukraine, is it in? and russia isn't it? so why is it important, or maybe it's not? well it's, it's very important to appreciate that the international criminal court was actually a creation of the united states. a lot of people keep talking about all the u. s. has nothing to do u. s. hasty i, c, c, and so the united states was instrumental in its creation. but of course, implicit in the project was that the united states would not accept it's jurisdiction. i mean, it's like, you know, the or the sovereign does, but the sovereign is, creates the law is not bound by the law. so i was, the thing was the united states. so it's a propaganda exercise. ah, when the i c c issues, it's the indictments. i mean, the whole purpose of us is that it's the adversaries of the united states who are targeted by the i c, c. and,

and that's the function of these are these strange international legal bodies that are before the i, c. c was the international criminal tribunal for the former yugoslavia. that at various times during the config came out with politically opportune indictments. so united 1995 just as p stocks are about to begin it in diets rather encourage and radical luggage to prevent them from taking bought the piece thorough. same thing and during the cost of a bombing bone. right, right, right. as the bombing is losing support domestically, the i c t y comes out with an indictment alpha and also it. so this is entirely predictable that at some point the i c, c would issue an arrest warrant or an indictment. and this is of, of course, the 1st of a series. i mean it's not going to stop it. they're going to be issuing indictment, offer indictment. oh, food channel. just my waiver is russian official to continue to get the some

brownie points from all of the so the to go the liberal humanitarian brigade. oh great look where, where on the right side of history the i c c is issue with a diamond. it's a body with no legal authority whatsoever. it statements should be ignored, resolutely insecure martin, because it's in attempting universal jurisdiction, but that jurisdiction doesn't cover in the united states. i mean, there's even been a resolution passed by the u. s. congress that the u. s. congress us would actually use military force against the hag if an american were put on trial. i mean, it's at that sounds crazy, but it's actually true that they would resort to force to protect americans from prosecution for war crimes. which if you look at the number of conflicts, the united states has been involved in over the last 4050 years. there is a lot of conflicts to cover their in a lot of soldiers culpability. that could be investigated though in the u. s. will

not allow its own soldiers to be or citizens in general to be under that jurisdiction. but everybody else is apparently mark. yeah. so there's an awful lot in note saying, or be careful what you wish for. i think that may will be the case if, if we raise the proof of the i, she sees more people understand what it is, what it does. but i think for an awful lot of people watching today, it's just another opaque drake self serving some more useless institution on the european council. and the so many also i, you can just read the list, european commission airplane policy, but you couldn't even just kind of on along. what are these instructions actually do? what i think george nailed it. they are very good at making statements. they're very good of feeding the piano machine, but at some point, the motor and stroy journalists stop knocking out the narrative. they don't have much else to say. i think it was very much a symbolic thing. but i also think for a lot of people who understand the complications of, of the ukraine. well,

i think they will look at it as a so desperate measured by the americans. what else combine him? do you know he's really against it now in times, not on his side. the money is running out. and what else can journalists come balance or and is rather empty periods where there's not much to write about? so i think it's very much a token thing. also in the last couple of weeks now. so the last couple of months, there been reports of the i c. c is also going to play more hardball against israeli government, on, at some activities and in palestine. the human rights abuses carry out the, you know, the palestinians go also very excited about this, but they're also just starting to realize that it's very much an empty gesture. it's very much about making statements and not really doing much else. because internationally, we talk about international rule, there isn't there, there isn't much there to go. an interesting thing i think, which is raised by a commentator just a couple days ago on the,

on the radio was that this will oblige a number of countries number of member countries to arrest who to if you have a trouble with those countries. but i think it may well be a road for the run back because he will, he will defy that and go to those countries and no risk to be made. and then think of the negative pay for this institution in the hague, which i visited by the way, it's probably the most boring city and entire been constant. i wonder why they put it there. apologies to the people, but you know, so we shouldn't look too much into this, i think is a desperate, you know, for slung, rather pathetic p. o m rues, which really woke much further. what george, of course, you know, when you read mainstream media, there's always the reference to the nuremberg a number of tribunal. they're trying to give it equivalent, see here, and it's the magnitude of it all. and, and then then like to 14 or 15 paragraphs, united states is now part of it. ukraine is the heart with those. there's a specific cut out, and maybe you can explain to us when it comes to ukraine,

russia, that part of it, israel's law, part of it, china is not part of it. but you know, it, once you invoke the nuremberg trials, you know, this is something that they wanted. it's part of the prop rolling out the propaganda, george ss. right. and so it's very much, oh, as a kind of desire of the human rights brigade that there will be these big war crimes trials in which you have these defendants with the hands hanging down, preferably behind that kind of a, a glass booth like out of iceman and then, you know, they'll have these eloquent human rights of prosecutors, raining down accusations on lisa hapless i, individuals. and that would be the final try on. oh, was on global human rights movement. will if, what is very interesting, what you said about the ukraine, because ukraine is not a part of the i c c. but what a ukraine did, he says, well, we will recognize i c. c jurisdiction on crimes committed

against us on our territory. so therefore, we will be happy to cooperate with you in order that you'll be able to prosecute people who have committed crimes against 1000. i said, i find that that's your exhibit. any of this to be sure clear, george, but crimes that they may or may not have committed themselves with it. i take it exactly. so it's, it's what they think they claim these are crimes committed against us. so you can, we'll, we'll, we're happy to provide you with the evidence and then, and you know, you can go investigate the people we want you to investigate. and of course, when you read this arrest warrant and then the statement by this ridiculous figure was the, the president of the i, c. c. it's entirely based on the accusations made by the ukraine government. i mean, as they have done no investigation of their own, they simply taken it as absolutely true. the claims that russia has been abducting

children and taking them against their will into russia. all that is just simply an accusation that the zalinski gang had been making for months and months of simpler the i c. c, just accepted it wholesale. yeah. martin, it, it did. there's not much of a discovery process here is there. i mean, is george's pointed out here, well, the camp government camp regime says it's true must be true. it must be investigated and a trials must move forwarded. that has not had that doesn't have a whole lot to do with the rule of law. that is the rule of injustice and propaganda. well, i think the legal word is inference. defamation inference, you know, is just you go to people who you like and on your side, you politically. and you asked for their opinions or views about a given series events in a conflict zone. and you mentioned awful lot of the negative stuff they might ask, you will just pick up the stuff the suit showcase. and we've seen this,

this is repeating itself that we've seen the same thing with the chemicals i just said, which i think is also in the 8th, which i was investigating the so called chemical attacks. but aside, you know, after wo, i think people going to realize this is very much a one sided narrative. and there was a particular point where they actually admitted to themselves. and to the answer, the answer, journalists who were, who were, who proved that these claims about a such people that in fact, the original report was wrong, and it's been heavily edited. and a huge scandal broke out. but it's all remember correct. so the conclusion of that scandal was the russians offered to actually send their own investigators to syria, to their own investigation. and this is rebuff. and i think this is, you know, really good example of instituting is really own very objective at all. anything they to help very political, they are with the objectives and who the masters are. you know, i think last week it's been really interesting for the,

for the people watching the been observing that you can war from a distance from the political implications. what's going on biden is really against the ropes now, you know, with this new deal, the china broke with iran. and then a week before that sound is creating a new build a relationship with russia. you know, all this is looking like a nightmare for him because whenever this happens, you know, it just reaffirms this point over and over again. it was the way off the news on the sure, you know, it's like us to generate. i wonder how longer we are going to continue using the trace because you know, the china do that with which broke a piece between her and the saudis, which i never thought i would ever see it in my office. i was shot, you know, you know, but it reaffirmed a point which is the any idiot can start to walk around the world with a few $100000000.00 and a few containers of arms. it takes super powers to stop all it takes super powers

to actually broke a piece. and that's really what the message was to. i think an awful lot of people, the global sell the look at america to america, keep starting rolls around around the world. you know, and it takes a super paulette china to come in and actually stop it. and i think this is one of the things that we're seeing now is a, as ukraine goes on in north america starts look weaker and weaker and indecisive and effective. and everything that it does. so i think this, you know, the i c, c, m, this latest is just so fatuous and some city. what's going on, you know, with me right before we go to the break church, i was really surprised to joe biden, actually publicly said, but we're not part of this. and i say, i mean again, you know, i mean gaps really are reveal what you're really thinking this a few seconds before we go to the break. george that he blurted that out. but he said, that's the problem. i mean, when you're not that you don't have all your mental faculties under control, you got to blow these things up. as you said, that you're supposed to leave that part in paragraph 27 of your long new york times

a b c. not supposed to just blow it out in the jump in here guys, we're going to which are break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion and some real estate with our team. ah ah, ah ah ah, with

ah. well, connect across not we're all things considered. i'm peter little. this is the home addition to remind you. we're discussing some real issues. ah

. all right, let's go back to the martin america, where it is part of part of the allegations of the i. c. c is made against russia, is about the removal of children from the dumbass to russia. from my understanding is a lot of these children are being adopted because they were victims of the columns over 8 years, 9 years now in the dark about these are orphans essentially right here, but that's not the message you're getting from. these allegations coming from the i, c, c. children, subject to children is a really polemic one. and i think it's quite interesting that we haven't seen any evidence to back any of these allegations up. you know, kid, nothing of children. i think nothing was frank said, you know, i think what was happening at the time was at rub, pigeon saw the importance of, of safeguarding this kids and they just didn't. it didn't even waste a minute and the was us tech and shifting the safer ground. it's a great shame that we don't have,

excuse me. we don't have more initiative from the, from western agencies and western governments from the when, when the war broke out. you know, if we look at, we do it's tally of the number of kids that have been killed. the state in the, in the, in these hot spots. you know, really i rolnick and roll the sickening from, from my perspective to see call the i. c. c's, but in this case together because it's so incredibly one sided and really not until objective. if we look back at so many huge conflicts happens, i'm sort of my career, you know, and another times were massive, huge international western organizations of just don't absolutely nothing. i'm thinking of for wanda emotional before where you know, potentially ministration was so terrified of doing anything at all because of 23, the soldiers in somalia. the couple years before i was there competent, you know, they just became completely mute and, and it's really important to, to,

to act and i think, you know, we don't see any opprobrium from these people who take the high moral ground, the great leader writers of the washington post linear ties, or any of these world leaders who actually supported a lender weight against their latest icbc charge against putin. so it seems a lot of hypocrisy, and that's really what we're dealing with. we're dealing with a policy and b s on a colossal level here. i wonder really, how long this can go on. i mean, before the, the newspapers, the media start to turn, looked at by the start. i'm asking some other questions, like i do tend to think that this is really a smart screen. i think this is really just something, this is smoke, this is just being thrown in the faces of a lot of people to distract away from bigger issues which are coming. by the way, you know, like, what's happening with republicans, i'll be going to run on a single ticket of no more money to, to ukraine. what does that do? just lensky is already there was some speculation in the crust. others starting to

turn. and i wonder if this is part of all this story is that he's now looking at the new powders they believe, look to the chinese, i mean, the japanese. well yeah, that's in the air. you know, whatever, you know, we're really lucky on this recording that we have george because george is an expert with the i c. c did with the former yugoslavia. george, you know, it's, you know, given their behavior in the precedent center. so established there. how does that bode for when it comes to where you came? because i'd like to point out, george is educated me a lot on this. is it in that situation? the chances in your serve you going to be guilty now on serve innocent. it's a very focused, it's almost racist. go ahead. sure. yeah, no of that. that's. that is very, very important to keep that in mind. because again, when the international criminal tribunal for the former yugoslavia will set up in 1093 and it was billed as well. this is not going to be

a victim tribunal. this is going to be objective and everybody who's committed crimes, you know, whatever the nationality will be in the process. of course it wasn't. and everybody knew that he wasn't the c u and security council, which had been very hostile to the subs. it's set this up again, no real legal basis for doing so. and that's what the i c d. why did it target that the subs who had been targeted by the united states and its allies at the un security council? so the overwhelming majority, i mean the, you know, the, that's like something 90 percent of the sentences of the, of the prosecution has been against the serbs and, and now, and that was the whole purpose of the striving to demonize the sub. there was a so i was just out of the war. the sobs committed all the transfers, the soaks, committed genocide, everything was the fault of the serbs. that's what what the i c t y did and that's

what the i c. c is doing. so there's nothing more pathetic than these a do. got a crowd, some of these libertarians responsible staker off it was a, well, i'm for the indictment of punching as long as you indict george w bush. so yes, let's have put in the dog. but let's also have henry kissinger and though it's not going to happen, these have thoughts of set up up, up targeting the people that the united states on the west, once dog george w bush is never going to be at the i. c. c, tony blair. i was not going to be arrested and hold off of a hey, it's utterly stupid that these people peddle this idea. well, that's good, that's a good start that we have put in here. but next spring, you know, let's, let's up tony blair. it's ridiculous. it isn't gonna happen either the i c c is doing exactly what the i c c was set up to do, you know, eva, we can learn, you've already mentioned in the program, and i think it's very interesting. and it's prescient on your part is that these

are western driven institutions, primarily almost exclusively, out of washington here. and of course, there may be western publics that don't know, any of the nuances that we have already discussed on this program. they seem like good, i'm a good institutions a well meaning, you know, it's like nerd trials and all that. but, you know, it's one of the things that we have all learn of through the course of this conflict in ukraine is that most of the world, the global majority global south, whatever you want to, they're saying this is just another level of hypocrisy. ok. i mean, you know, african leaders, you know, they, they know what the i, c, c of they're looking at africa. they know that, you know, it's going to be photos of the, of the europeans and of the americans. ok. it's very, very selective. and, you know, even though you and i, all 3 of us can mock it, i mean, and then the rest of the world. this as you know, again, this is just an example of western hypocrisy where they get the rule of laws a to their advantage. and we're all of the get the short end of the stick. go ahead

and you live in. if you live in the global south, go ahead and go. so yeah, on it. so whenever you talk about ice, you see in africa, most people will think of the rest of charles taylor, you know, hinged me about taylor is done is not very well known, but you dictate, but often you read enough note books. it is revealed by a few choice journalists. taylor was a real up, it of the america, in a taylor was actually a health in overthrowing the country and taking out by the americans. and but he played this whole and called relationship one minute was in the next minute they hated him. in the end, they threw the dogs, you know, they and they, and they pushed the i, c. c, to arrest him and entered and put a case against him. and i think that, you know, the africa, africa is a constant which has, is losing all the time its confidence in the north, in the western european union and american countries. you know, it's so funny that we talk about the global self africa, but every single day that passes, we see the confidence training in the european unit in particular and in america

and there was science, there was science, which you can see every day if you wish to watch very, very closely these huge seismic deals that are going ahead, like, as i mentioned before, the saudi arabia and russia and showing a broker in the piece to with the iranians. you know, the implications of iran, the saudi arabia, now not looking at each other, which i'm pointing barrels each other, but actually working on investment nice of the countries and the not on affect the us. right across the region. africans pick this up, thinking, okay, so then does that mean morocco and algeria were no longer have this east west cold war? nonsense that's been going on for so long. will it really, it will, it, will it relieve the tensions all across the continent. but the funny thing is, is the europe in union leaves africa and it's just because it gives you an example of just how l pacific just how weak and effective the leaders are in the european unit itself. when just about a week ago. the european union's gardner and chief, mister burrell, joseph broke

a man. we have great reverence for the trouble sell. cheerier. made some very bold statements. nigeria, you know, and the 2 key messages that come across were when we made movie, guess. and if you could fix your claim was for us and get placed here. we really appreciate that as well. i mean, you know, when you're in the area just to sort of still just how bad can it get? you know, i mean it's just really pathetic african leaders pick up on those messages. african leaders see that visit and understand exactly what's going on. the world, you know though they're not stupid so. so i think um, you know, this, this, these recent events, you know, will be noted by the african, the late and i think it just, it just trains the credibility once again, all of this very opaque institutions, all the invoice of a lot of anyway, you know, it, you know, charge on it, and it's already been mentioned here about the, the piece. what the deal that, that the chinese and broker between the iranians and the saudis. one thing from the global south is, you know, if you have a conflict with a neighbor or an international dispute, you don't have to have

a super power patron. you can actually have a neutral dissenter, well, more or less disinterested broker and that is so you know, that sense, you know, a very strong message. you don't have to sell your soul and your sovereignty to get protection and consider who, what the americans are going to the germans right out. probably not a good idea to have a western patriot. george. yes, exactly. and it's very interesting. we look at a contrast between russia and china, adding, brokering this agreement between iran and saudi arabia, with the american approach, which is, well, let's keep this will going forever. the americans have done it. syria is what is just as it will. let's just keep this going. forever, i mean isn't a no, no prospect whatsoever at any time that there will be any kind of a negotiated outcome. stable government, economic prosperity, and i will just keep pouring in arms. we're gonna keep trying to isolate syria.

we're going to try and keep making sure this area doesn't get any reconstruction aid. that's what the americans have. and you know, we have libya, it's out 12 years since america started bombing libya and he's still an absolutely destroyed country. and so, yes, this is another thing as monte sending him an africans look up on this as a well who's trying to further piece and asperity and co operation and who just simply once conflicts to go on forever. and again, when, when the sort of the white house spokesman said the other day when we can't possibly accept the chinese piece plan, because that would keep them, you know, are russians gains in place and they would be in violation of the you and shot alice, we need to keep this wall going for as long as possible until we get what we want. so. so basically satisfies biesen cooperation who stands for permanent war and well, you're not going to let you won't get those answers in the washington posted new

york times of the financial times. but then again, uh the leads in the global south. they don't particularly pay attention to those organs of state information any more as all the time we have gentlemen want to take my guess in medication and in budapest, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here r t c. next time and remember rasa goals. ah, ah, look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, accept where such order to conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about artificial intelligence and the point obviously, is to great trust, rather than a take on various jobs with artificial intelligence. real, somebody with

a robot must protect its own existence with a headlines right now. what are you into national and there it is. the plane for the president gigi pink arriving in moscow on the heels of his re election 1st international trip. and it's straight to russia to discuss forging. ty is in the emerging multi polar world with president in florida. may have a supplier, roy in the world by a big margin that machine that roll african countries and allow. c shaping us to being the largest market. india increase as rice exports to africa.