it's been almost to the ideology of the nationalist, the disease, a ah, ah ah . hello and welcome to cross stock were all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle. the chinese presidents visit to russia is historic for a number of reasons. first to accent, the growing russia, china strategic partnership, and 2nd, to demonstrate what both countries publicly advocate the transition to a multi polar world beyond american hegemony.

cross sucking russia china relations. i'm joined by my guess, matthew errand in cocoa. he's a senior fellow at the american university in moscow and director of the rising foundation of canada in hong kong we have and re lung. he is an international and independent china strategist. and in houston we crossed to robert, whose alco he is a professor of history at the university of houston, as well as co host of the green and red podcast. gentleman cross that rules and effect, that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate andrew, let me go to you 1st in, in hong kong, you know, there's a very interesting juxtaposition, if you turn on american television, they're all wondering, of donald trump is going to be arrested later this week for yeah, hush, money and things like that or they're talking about hunter biden's laptop still and at it as they're doing that, we have a world historic meeting going on here in moscow with the chinese president's visit

. i mean, how out of touch is the west when it comes to the burgeoning relationship between moscow and beijing? go head andrew and hong kong. well, i think that the west led by the united states is seized out by the mantra of a that the american they as a so called liberal order a to stay forever and led by american hedge money. because the west is regard of is the best system the world is, should be imposed on all countries. and the whole rivalry with china and, and russia is, is, is hi to be a contest between democracy and authoritarianism. so there was a lot of force rhetoric and our explain why, because as of only about a few days ago, according to the latest research,

by a paris based and independent research institution called the i, p. s. o s. looking at the happiness index of countries around the world as to what extent are people in different countries, are you happy under their government? and guess what? china came on top and the number 2 is saudi arabia, where these 2 are not democracies, but yet there people have never felt happier than before. this is because their lives of the as far as time is concerned and the lives of the vast majority of the people have been miraculously transform under the tutelage of the childish communist party. but a possible yes. and this is been confirm also the support of the people of the government on for also by harvard kennedy school study a year and a half ago. and by the m l m m e l m a n trust barometer base in new

york. so this rhetoric about a contest between democracy or call proceed as the, the more democracy them upon a country in the world typify a part of united states is the happiest, most successful country. as you just said, i mean, and previous the president donald trump is about to be arrested. come to come also for crimes and let alone so immoral acts. well, and that's the whole point i was trying to make. i mean, there seems to be and you know, what countries in sync or countries are in sync and which ones aren't. ok. i let me go to a robert in houston. i mean, this is, this is a very important event in the, in the, with the backdrop of china is proposed a 12 point piece process for, for ukraine. i just recently broker to deal between saudi arabia any ran for

president assad, visited moscow recently. there's a lot of things going on in the world here, and it's not necessarily in the west. he sees it is a threat to there had gemini, but a lot of other actors welcome this as a real, a realignment to forces in the world. i mean, is something a lot of people in the world actually embrace and are not afraid of go ahead, robert. yeah, that's a key point. the, the media right now is covered if she could meetings, but it's so, you know, kind of research, seattle, or rhetoric and, you know, i think that's when americans don't understand because we kind of get, you know, a very different approach to the war here from the media, which is very much based in kind of moral terms good and evil and it's very simplistic. ah, but it, i think the rest of the world clearly teaches differently. you know, so you have when you're with united states, but that is presented kind of, it's a dot only way of looking at things that's clearly not the case of the united

states, you know, but where you were economically, especially against china, per decade or so. now, and you know, you still have the beast economy of the world, the dollars still used for, for global as go currency of china now a manufactured lead on united states. the chinese are trading in asia with rush, all included with the united states has peach tree bouts with us as well as lenders piece proposal along with the appropriate negotiation. saudi and iran show kind of get a sense of what's, what all of these ways. i'd say cheese, it's a gemini beach out my cheaters. and so, you know, it's, it's kind of using the wanting left of his pocket, which is to smash a robert budget. robert, don't you find it really interesting and said, you know, just on the, in the last new cycle on fox news they were on the guest were talking about the loss of american hegemony. and i think it's so kind of out of sync again, let me go to matthew on this. is that of the world,

this tired of american hegemony. that's why it's being chao and jan. that's why different centers of power of coming into being, particularly there's the strategic relationship between russia and china. it's really interesting how that they, the west always finds is threatening. but for other countries, particularly russia and china, they find it liberating to be done with american hegemony. it's really amazing. the different mindset here. go head matthew. yeah, no, absolutely. i mean, a anglo american i'll say anglo to say infuse a little bit of, i think her drama into the causal nexus of the post world war 2 age has been, has had 80 plus years to prove itself and demonstrates its security as the best of all possible orders, and what we've seen is just simply hundreds of regime change operations carried out since most a day in iran and, and even in nicaragua before that and all the way up to the present order assassinations of leaders of different heads of state, including america's own leaders who tried to resist this internet,

this deep state column built up inside of its heart. so you had a lot of time to prove that the system is the superior order and we've had libya, a rat, syria thrown back into dark age chaos. situations in the name of the democracy building of the rules based international order. and i mean, if you just read the chinese a globe both a global security initiative but also the, the u. s. had gemini and its perils, another document outlining its philosophy of how governance and, and especially on security, should operate back on february 21st and 22nd. it really lays out that look, the only thing it works is when, when cooperation and looking at points of. busy aberration which manifest in things like iran, saudi arabia on taunts the turkey syria relationship, beginning to re heal slowly. right. did this work? africa were, i mean, the development for africa works. and so i think what we see coming in with shooting things visit ha to russia has been

a real hope for the 3rd world and everything. i only want to say the 3rd world that the world that's been prevented from developing and becoming modern for the past. matthew, i refer to it is the global majority and because that's exactly what it is here, let me go back to andrew in, in hong kong. i guess what really gets american foreign policy people upset is that china is proposing piece around the world are brokering day, you know, saudi arabia and iran. you know, that that was a tough one to do. the united states was not in a position to do it because it's huge. his sides, china didn't choose aside. that's why we have a piece processed their potential piece process. put it that way. go ahead, andrew. well, i think that done. it's your politics are not usually dictated by philosophies as this dictated, usually about a change of power. our power in them, economic power and to political power and all these dynamics are changing all the

time. out of the 2nd world war, of course, the only and largest and most powerful country. and i have been the united states and they were have been able to call the shots and, and they thought that, ok, i'm less bring china into this system. and so that, and any kind of for cheap goods can be outsourced to china together with the polluting industries. and then they read the best of the benefits. so sitting on top of the pile, without realizing that china, having joined the w t o as growing these economy, now the 2nd largest and is grown to be the world's largest trader, ahead, the united states and the largest manufacturer and, and the center of the supply and very chain and everything is always making always everything is making china, you go to the markets and, and, and even if there are, there's not mark big in china taurus, if embedded in it's somewhere in terms of logistics in terms of components in terms

of materials and so, and that's the reality. and then of course china now and seem to be eating american sluggish, no longer exporting only cheap goods, but also high technology goods. and in some measuring area, let me jump in here. when i get, i want to get robert in before we go to the big it, andrew brings up an interesting point. i mean, why does one country have to be number one? why can't there be a multi polar world? i mean, that's a, that's what the chinese and the russians are asking, why does, why, why do we need a hedge, a man, robert? know exactly this for sure. sure. the last 30 years, the really guy status that you know, career more damaged and were match out, especially from china. and you have a really great crowd global warming to you at just released another really dire reports which are being set aside. this reserves, or rhetoric based on military aggression and special military power basset defense spike is because i think like i said that's, that's what the us as a lapse it's,

it's last major, you know, play, which is, you know, military power on building weapons building miss out your webpage basis all the tire basis overseas based. okay. robert, i have to jump in and we're going to go to a break here. but why is it being number one? have to be the military. why can it be, you know, prosperity or trade? i mean that with that is for quite some time i'm going to let you get an answer that when we get back from our break, generally we're gonna go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on some real new state with with, with and i'm here to plead with you, whatever you do. do not watch my new shelton seriously. why watch something that's

so different. my little opinion that you won't get anywhere else, look of it, please do have the state department, the cia weapons makers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your facts for you. go ahead. i change and whatever you do. don't watch my show, stay mainstream because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called direct impact, but again, you probably don't wanna watch it because it might just change the wayne thing. ah, government has been killing his own people and on boss pay is it's amazing. the admission not to be covered in western media. it hasn't been covered for the last 8 years. i'm here for 5 minutes, and then i'm told the 1st 5 people they found it was 5 decapitated head winding up in a quarterly equest on demand. a boy foss could that it can use me no fiber to say,

keep his own, your father law kid, the v. vi. inflammation wool. almost all the independent journalists pointed out that nato and the u. s. were directly responsible for initiating the military conflict in ukraine. our casualties of it as long as we want the war to continue. we will fight that more using ukrainians as proxies and we will fight it to the last ukrainian death. that's what's happened in dumbass this whole time. this is, these aren't objects. these are people. and so that's why i do what i do. that's why i'm here. operation, the aerodynamic began shortly after world war 2 and lasted almost 3 decades. it wasn't a major effort to try and split the ukraine off from the soviet union,

u. s. intelligence together with hypnos, executioners trained hundreds of saboteurs to be deployed in the soviet union, just focused on other stuff on there. so we'll have started with this with service unions. williams. today's security service of ukraine use is not only the statistic methods, but almost the ideology of the nationalist a ah, ah, welcome back across stock, we're all things are considered on people to le beltran manager. we're discussing russia, china relations with okay, let's go back to robert in, in houston. i want you to finish off your answer before we went to our break here.

i mean, it's, you know, i, you know it, matthews already touched on it. robert, but you know this, this whole had gemini model with rules based order, whatever that means it's not working. it's not working for the vast majority of the world. and that's why we see these movements to get away from it. they financial control and the dollar all of this because that's just a weapon, it's a cudgel, okay? and more and more countries say they don't want to be fall victim to that they want prosperity and they want security. that's not ideological for the vast majority of the world. but american hegemony as seen in, in, in, in washington, in london, in brussels, maybe even kit is very ideological. go ahead, robert. yeah, well, the united states for america, it's either. so the 10 percent green agrees. great, she's right now you know, banking wages, the health care system, the united states and said, really terrible condition housing debts. and so we're taking actions that would

alleviate the problem because the stage that will kind of resurfacing the cold or mccarthy's, and that would be social straight off here would be socials in the u. s. so instead, you know, you kind of make this play for germany based on military strength is military power . you create these, these john quincy adams called the monsters to destroy long ago, right after world war 2. george kennedy, of us have 6 percent of the population. and 50 percent of the wealth and our task is to maintain this position of disparity. and that's really still american policy to, to maintain the power to maintain that power. and it used to sell the idea to americans . prosperity from detroit to steel mills of basis like that, that's not there anymore. now it's based on fear and, and all these other problems that emerge. and so you talk about things like china, russia rather than global warming, which is obviously great prices for any of the extinction of your entire play on it . and in the us, we're just not really discussing it or doing much about it. yeah,

well i, i don't really see any meaningful political discussion in the united states if you watch cable news anyway. you know, matthew, i started out by talking about, you know, a multi polar world and how both rush and china are working towards it. now i think that's a very smart idea. it's for security reasons. it's very, but it's very practical and pragmatic because the, the, the west war against russia is to take russia out, break it up, and then good take on china and the chinese and the russians both know that. go ahead, matthew. yeah, that's right. i mean, dividing conquer has been the, the age old brook formula that's been applied again again for centuries. obviously the nuclear bomb had really distorted or thrown off that formula for the past 80 years. but it began brzezinski sent it directly in 1987 that you know, he laid out the designs for what is it something like 12 micro federations, with s no nationalistic and orientations that should be put under the dominance of

the u. s. of the i. m f. if y'all seen doctrine, the sort of doctrine that had taken control of russia back the 990 had been not burdened by actual patriot national, who didn't want to sacrifice their heritage on this altar of the new world order. so instead again and again in various ways we have similar us think tanks that have images of a carved up china, highly reduced in size with maybe 6 little micro federations under the control of the world bank. and i m f and trying to see that the, the ukraine formula is being applied in its own back yard, in the, in the guise of both taiwan and japan, which have their own sort of similarities to ukraine situation in their own way. and any complete full spectrum military dominance, military build up around their perimeter, just like in russia. and we have the same discussion, the arctics. we see where the, where things are going and they see that the u. s. is sitting on the biggest time

bomb call, the financial bubble. oh yeah. the only matter access. oh yeah. so that's actor. yeah. yeah. look who has problems with dad and i can tell you who's going to be a problem in the world. ok. you know, andrew, it's very interesting to me is that everyone likes to say that this is a marriage of convenience, the russians and chinese. but actually, i look at it this way is that, you know, that russia and china accused of being revisionist powers, revision is power, is actually better, status quo powers. they, they want to appeal to the united nations charter and the ruins base order has nothing to do with the, with the un charter. but, you know, with western propaganda, it's actually quite sophisticated in it's ubiquitous, you know, but there is a huge distinction between looking towards the charter and this rules based order andro. well, of course, the am special relationship between russia and china as the product of,

of so food, very powerful with our name, it forces. first of all, the relationship already started very close relationship. well, really started well before the current. and you claim, whoa, i mean, and because both countries are extremely complementary. economically, russia has been the world's largest one that it was largest exporter oh, energy, and all gas and oil, and as well as minerals, but also agricultural products and russia, as the world largest exporter of agricultural fertilizes. and then china is the world's largest customer. but both the both energy and the agricultural products. so actually the 2 countries are intertwined together well before the ukraine war. now, and then andrew, andrew, i'd like to point out that neither one of these countries want to export their model to the other one. okay, that's a, a respect of sovereignty and k. and again,

that doesn't go along with the rules base order because you, everyone has to be recreated in the image of the, the liberal order which the world does not want. we know that. okay. yeah, let me go, let me go to robert. right now. it interest in reading the pages of politico. it's interesting to the zalinski regime is very hesitant to criticize china. so we have a client state 100 percent client state of the west of the united states. and they are hesitating now because they see the role that russia and china are playing on the world state. it tells you everything you really need to know. a client state is beginning. that wants to hedge their bets. very interesting, robert, go ahead. yeah. china is that they, did she say, sure, american policy makers more anything else? because china is now a threat to american germany. american power especially can all of our

manufacturing trade, everything else. and so that's why talks really big shot out of us before they begin to wall street journal, a company official organ of the american ruling elite. they said, you know, docs are not started. you know, you get a you know, the chinese model has worked as you pointed out. i think it's kind of what the us did it. the end of the 19th 20th century is sending out trade sheets and sending out diplomats belton road initiative. the general, these piece docs between the saudis and iran ears. and so would say, hey, we know, you know, it's central and central asia and ask in the middle east to say we have something to offer you. and your writers are really based on, you know, kind of a commitment to have the same kind of political system or political reality. it's this idea, you know, united states called the open door, you know, at the end of the 20th century 19th, 20th and early 20th century. and that's kind of what the chinese you're doing. they're not saying, hey. ready going to come in here, we're going to blow you to bed. we're going to send you military what we're approaching arby. ready they're saying is we're gonna, you know, extend trade,

we're going to help you develop some kind of manufacturing based that will help you know, the work back of the 20 central would be modernized and it's working on and much of the world. now. china has this diplomatic initiative, is this political issue that obviously terrifies united states now? and so, you know, you have issues like ukraine, which has been a real boom for raytheon in general dynamics and companies like that for data, right? it gives a reason to adjust another reason to exist. but for, you know, the globe interview for the people in the united states here, like i said before, we're not benefiting from this this military industrial complex either. you know, you could say in the 50s or sixties, the u. s. was typical american was, but now, you know, personal, that student, that a deteriorated healthcare says a horrible infrastructure train derailments every day. horrible, you know, pollution problems. so it's a fairly great political crisis in the united states is focusing on these parks between your you know, kind of, it, it's taking these ancillary issues with blowing up, or rather they're dealing with,

with the real problems we face, which is, you know, absolutely. now releasing a child to this, the liberal order, as well as an alternative to this kind of american system. this was kind of, i mean, i mean it, you know, thing the new liberal order. it's just as bad for the united states as it is for other countries. exactly. you know? yeah, yeah. i mean, i, for the life of me why the american congress pays ukrainian pensions, but it won't take care of pensioners in america, or veterans or any other group. okay. really? yeah. sort of billiards around, but nobody freestyle spent a while trained. goodbye matthew. you know, one of the, one of the biggest difference we see right now is that, you know, ever since the end of the cold war, the great powers didn't confront each other. they had proxy wars all over the place here. they didn't go toe to toe, but now we see elements within the american administration and want to go to tell

with russia and china at the same time. the great powers traditionally don't go after each other. you know why? because you can fail. it's existential. that's why we live in a very dangerous time. we have great powers, the united states confronting other great powers that's. that's a no no, because you can lose matthew. yeah, no, absolutely. i mean, again, as i mentioned earlier, the, the advent of the nuclear bomb really change the calculus of how global empire could ever function again and for throughout the cold war period of the mutually assured destruction of formula that was set out by folk like bertram russell sorta had a balance of terror that didn't result in destroying everything. but now we're at a point where we have a systemic break. and i think that that factor of the transatlantic systemic banking meltdown. but it's not just the banking, the physical in struck the physical means of production, which have been atrophied consistently for 50 plus years. are now variables that

are shaping the thinking of certain fanatics who unfortunately have access to the launch mechanisms of many of these nuclear warheads who can do nothing but doubled down on the script that they had laid out back in 109192. when the world was one, it was the end of nation states and one world government was here and of history. and they seem to still hold on to the delusion at that script still applies to the current aid. despite the fact that reality has completely changed from their ivory tower. and i think you see some signs of major infighting amongst different factions of oligarchical interest. right now we're some are saying, you know, well maybe we should like live to fight another day to board this plan. i think the jeffrey sachs angle is, is playing a role in that. and then on other angles, you have the more fanatical neil con drive of just, you know, we can do nothing but what we're program to do, which is had gemini with no negotiation. and that's scary. it's a very, very proud of that. so we end the program. it's scary, it's certainly as gentleman, it's all the time we have

a want to thank my guest and toko houston and in hong kong, and want to thank our viewers for watching us here. and archie, see you next time and remember, cross stuck rules ah, ah, operation aerodynamic began shortly after world war 2 and lost it almost 3 decades . it wasn't a major effort to try and split the ukraine off from the soviet union, u. s. intelligence together with hypnos, executioners trained hundreds of saboteurs to be deployed in the soviet union, just focused on other bundles of. well, i'm sorry, we'll do this with one on server shoes williams. today's security service of ukraine use is not only the statistic method, the ideology of the nationalist with

a with the information. oh, most all the independent journalists who pointed out that nato and the us were directly responsible for initiating the military conflict in ukraine. our casualties of it. we are old and useful to west. i don't have a possibility to go safely, so there is no way for me to go back to the traits are real and own. i also have already load last few french under very bad

circumstances. i have daughters abroad, i have family abroad, and it's the sacrifice. and i was ready to do it. i had this in my heart. ah, my mother is a journalist and she's a good job. she understands that i have to do, but i have to do. but yes, i miss my daughters. i miss my family, but i tried to stay off what yes, case worker was sheila cut off, robert lemetre at the sub will the floor it all over and he thought it would make a guy miss a bit of dallas e jordan. i least gotta go get it bravo bus full on.